A God Sized Problem - Micheal Byrd

When I was in a small church, like I would ask bigger churches, hey, could we use your curriculum? Like, what are you using? Yeah, we're using this. Just pay $2,500 a year, and then you can use it too. And I'm like, $2,500 a year, you might as well say, you know, give us a million dollars because church of 40 cannot afford that. And so I always had this desire to give away curriculum. I tried writing my own curriculum, and it just takes, it's ridiculous amount of time. And then to write out the quality and have videos of the quality that we needed it, how what are we going to do? It's like a God-sized problem. Hi, my name is Michael Berg, and I am a follower of Christ, volunteering full time for church apps, and love doing all kinds of things, including RVing, hanging out in the wilderness as much as I possibly can, hiking and fishing. This is my faithfully story. Welcome to Faithfully Stories, the podcast that brings you inspiring tales from conversations with church leaders, as they navigate the peaks and valleys of their faith journeys through their ministry work and everyday life. Join us as we delve into their challenges, moments of encouragement, and answered prayers. The Faithfully Stories podcast is brought to you by Faithfully, an online community committed to empowering church leaders, pastors, staff, and volunteers. Learn more at Faithfully.co. Get ready to be uplifted and inspired as we unveil the heart of faith through stories from the front lines of ministry on. The Faithfully Stories podcast. Could you share how your faith journey started? Sure. So, my faith journey started probably when I was born, because my parents were both heavily involved in the church. Always my dad has been a minister all my life, but I really didn't take Christianity seriously. I probably tell I was about 11, 12. My church always had this passion play, where basically it was just like Jesus's resurrection and his death and his resurrection, and they did really, really well. It's something that I put a lot of time into, and one night during that, I was watching and it just dawned on me, like Jesus died for me, like not for my parents, not for anybody else, but personally for me. And for the sins that I did, so that I could live with him forever, and that was it. I was sold, and so I told my dad, and then like a good dad, he said, well, all right, let's keep thinking about it. And I brought it up several different times. I was persistent, and he knew that it was time, and so I was baptized. And I won't say that I've been living perfectly ever since then, but I've been doing the very best that I can. And sometimes probably during college, I realized, over about when I was 18, 18, 19, I really got a calling to go full-time ministry. I've been fighting it, I didn't want to do it. I knew that I should, and then God just spoke to me, and I was like, hey, put messing around. And so I did. I went full-time ministry and follow him as close as I can ever since. So what were some of the things after, I guess, your conversion at 12 that made you think about ministry? Yeah, so really, the biggest things that happened for me is I love traveling. Anytime I can go anywhere, I'm all about it. And in the Christian world, that means mission trips, right? And so I went on several Mexico mission trips and just absolutely loved it. During those mission trips, really just finding myself serving others and growing closer to God. And so the school that I was at, there was a Westland mission trip that was offered to go to Russia. And so when I was 16, for the first time I went to Russia, and what we did was there's like a three-week camp that was in Russia that was really supposed to be like a communist camp. I mean, that's what it was. I really liked the fact of Western influence so Americans could come in. And so we got to come in and basically have an American camp, which we had chapel at every night, never calling it Christian camp or anything, but what it was is just hanging out with like 700 Russian kids all the way from like fourth grade to 18 years old. And here I am 16, three weeks in Russia, Vladimir Russia is where I was. And I mean, man, it was awesome. It was really cool to be able to talk. In Russia, they want to actually understand like they have tea all the time. And so we'd sit down and have tea. And then they'd ask me about Christ and like, why are you following him? And I really had to dig into my faith right there. And that's, that is what really transformed. I think a lot of my faith journey. And then the next year I did it again and just absolutely loved it. So that was a big, a big part of just growing in my faith. Or some of the things that you learned during these mission trips. And the reason why I ask is because like a lot of people kind of look down on mission trips, especially short-term industry, especially with teenagers because it's kind of like, you know, you go for fun. But there's just so many times I hear stories about like how transformational it was. And so for you, like, what were the benefits that you gained out of those trips and how did that shape like who you are as a pastor? Yeah, absolutely. So in this specific, and I don't know if it's like this for everybody, but for me, I really had to rely on God. We're on the middle of nowhere, Russia. It gets really lonely. And after, you know, two weeks of being there, like all you want to do is just go home. And so, and that's not an option. And so you dig into your faith. And you know, we can grow up like I could, I don't know, maybe you too, like in America and really, hardship is not a thing. Like you just don't face hardship, like you don't face being hungry in Russia. I face being hungry. Like some of the meals there were I could not eat. And so I was hungry. And so that hardship really made me realize like, I'm got to, I can't rely on myself. I've got to rely on God. And so I would say that's the biggest thing that I learned. And that goes for even the Mexico trips, man. I mean, after a year, I remember we dug a trench for the septic tank, me and all my friends. I mean, you dig that thing all day long and the Mexican stunt like man. And at your, that's a real hardship and you're doing it with each other. And then at night, like, hey, we're going to go have a worship service. And then all of a sudden, you're like, I feel, I feel energized. Like I feel, I feel ready to go. And so I would say that answer the question like hardship, bringing, made me understand that I had to rely on God, such as the reliance on God. Yeah. Great. Thanks. So like, what happened in college that you're just like begrudging and indecisive and then it kind of pushed forward? So really it's probably my high school year, you know, and it was just this, I knew, I'd already been on the trips. I knew what I really needed to do, but I really wanted to go somewhere where I could make a lot of money. And I was closing up to the ministry to know if I'd jump into ministry, that is not going to be my life. I mean, that was just as simple as that, that, that's what was holding me back. So I had the choice basically to just continue working right out of high school or go to Ozark Christian college is where I went. And that was kind of the path to get into ministry from my perspective back then. And I only stayed at Ozark for one year. I really hated the school too. Like I never, never got along with studying and I just, I don't like school. And so that, that was pulling me, but it was in Mexico where I literally felt, I got down on my knees behind a cabin there and I know that God told me like, Hey, you're going to Ozark. So put, put messing around. So I did. And that was there one year. And there was a church in South Haven, Mississippi that needed a youth minister in turn. So I'm like, awesome, I'll jump and go, it's around Memphis. And so went to Memphis and was there for the summer. And they said, Hey, what we really want is you to just stay on. You're doing a great job. Could you stay on and then go to mid-South Christian college, just like a small college and work at FedEx at night. So that way you can pay for it all. So I'm like, yeah, I only need four hours of sleep at night. So I'm good there. And so you know, you're right in your 19. So that's what I did. I did that for two years and just absolutely loved it. It was, it's one of those things where like I didn't really feel like God. I knew that he won me on the path to Ozark. And I liked Ozark. It's a great college. I got A's and B's there my first year, which is a tough college. But I didn't feel like that's really where I need to be when I was serving in ministry. That's where I felt like, oh, man, this is bright where God wants to eat. And you just have a piece about it. So that's kind of where I started from there and how I, it wasn't really that much of a big deal. I mean, when God speaks to you, listen, that's what I've been told all my life. And I, that experience, I haven't, I don't have it all the time. And it's not like I hear God's voice all the time or feel like I see him like physically all the time. But in that instance, I did and it, it scared me enough to say, yeah, this is what I need to do. So is Ozark any relation to the Netflix show Ozark like in the Great Lakes? No. Okay. Where's Ozark? We're very, very far apart. So Joplin, Missouri is Ozark Christian College. So like a lot of people probably know those by their next level content. If you're on right now media, then they, they serve all the next level content, which is professors talking about pretty much every book of the Bible. So what were you doing in, was the church called the Christ View Christian Church in South Dayton, Mississippi? Yeah. You're working with children or youth or yes. So I was the children slash youth slash anything that needed to be done in the church. Yeah. So there's a senior guy and me. And so, I mean, what, what I was doing, I don't know, like this is my first ministry. I'm like, hey, we got to have a draw for kids. And so youth ministry, obviously, I was like, this is going to be awesome. Let's, let's make a sand volleyball court. And so I spent some time like finding out, there's a guy working down the road and I hadn't come dig a hole and then I brought sand in and we had a sand volleyball court. We get kids there on Saturday nights and I'll be like, hey, come back on Sundays. They never did. We got a lot, a lot of fun. We got into the words some, probably more fun than getting into the word children's ministry. I was literally like, hey, let's read a Bible story and then go outside and play, you know. So sorry, Christ View, it wasn't my best. It comes to ministry, but they allowed me to learn, which was really, really cool. And so I was part time there doing it. No, I think that's so important, like, especially people like you're 19, like what do we know in 19? And they kind of just throw you in the fire. I mean, it's a miracle that like, nothing bad happened and you, like you said, you gave them a wonderful experience of church. And I think that's the best. And you learned a lot too. So where did you transition after that? Yeah. So Christ View is actually where I met my wife, Carrie. And so we got married shortly after I met her. In fact, it was like nine months after we met. We were married. And we were there at Christ View for a little bit married together, but it was getting hard because like I had this beautiful wife that I had just married and loved spending all kinds of time with her. But I only had four hours to sleep because I was still working FedEx part time at going to college and doing the ministry. And so then she got pregnant and we're like, okay, we've got to find a bigger as something that's going to sustain our family. So we actually started looking and we ended up in Lexington, Tennessee. Actually they called us and this was more, so Christ View was probably about 70 people. Lexington, Tennessee, Lexington, British and Church at the time was like 150 and growing. I think they peaked when I was there like 200 somewhere around there, but they wanted me to do the same thing, youth and childrens. And I learned a little bit, you know, I'm only like 21 at this point. So it was nice to have a fresh start and to be able to say, okay, like here's what we're going to do and move forward from there. So I moved from Christ View to Lexington and no longer working FedEx, I'm working full time at the church, which was as awesome as exactly what I knew God wanted me to do. So how did you meet your wife? That's an interesting story. So her dad actually, he came to the church and did a revival and then at the end of their revival, he liked that I was working so hard and doing my best. I'm sure he didn't see like, oh, wow, he's an amazing youth minister. Like you said, I didn't really know I was doing, but he liked my work ethic and he also saw that, you know, here I am a boy from Kansas. I'm long ways from home, just doing ministry said, hey, I've got two daughters, once 21, 117. You know, would you like to talk to them? Like, is somebody to talk to? And I'm like, yeah, let me have the number of the 17 year old. And then, yeah, nine months later, three months later, we were engaged. And so that's how I met Carrie and he, it turned out all right for him, I guess. He, he always jokes about, he conjured you into a partner in the ministry and he really did. Wait, so what about her that like connect with you? Well, what about her that connected with me? Yeah, the first time I talked to her, like, just the sweetest voice on the phone and just kind of curious about what I was doing. And she was so interested in the ministry, like, you know, well, in children's ministry, really, what are you doing? Like, how are you helping me out there? Like from day one, just wanted to be a partner in what I was doing. I knew if I was going to have a wife that was going to go long-term with me, then they're going to have to love the ministry. And like her heart for the ministry was just right there. And then just the fact that she was willing to just kind of wait on, because when she lived an hour and a half away. And so, you know, and I was really busy, but she was still willing to kind of wait around and then actually the first date that we went on, she's so sweet and I knew that I was going to marry her. And so I actually called my mom on the way home and said, hey, I found the girl, I'm going to marry. And that was it. There's another one of those things, God, sometimes it's just clicks, like, yeah, this is a girl. It was her first date. So I went to Charleston and I've got a stake. At this point, you know, I felt like I'm working part-time at FedEx, I didn't have very many bills. I had four roommates in a one-bedroom apartment, so I kept my cost away down, you know, but great guy's sleeping in bug beds in the living room. That's what he wrote. And so I'm like, yeah, we're going to Charleston, get a stake. She got a chicken salad and I'm like, I'm on and I got a stake. And then we went to the movies or watched out, guys, it's like the, I can't remember the name of the movie, but she remembers that night, like, I was very shy. I didn't have very many like girlfriends that would date around that type of thing. So I put my hand like in the small of her back when we walked out the door and she said that was when I was like, oh, wow, I really like this guy. I don't know. Got a little too romantic here for that. You put me daily. The hand in the back works all the time. I see the Instagram too. You're going out there. All right. So you're newly married about, oh, you had a kid and you're in, was it Tennessee or Kentucky? Uh, no, Lexington, Tennessee. Sentin Tennessee. Yeah. So Lexington, Tennessee, you know, the senior guy left, which happened to be Carrie's dad. So I ended up working with him and he left and then about two years later, you know, sometimes when a church hired somebody that don't really do a background check and that's bad. And this is where I learned that lesson. And so we hired a guy that was really in a lot of debt and he just wasn't like he, he was running the secretary's house and just never, never paid any rent. He actually bought my car but never paid me anything for it. So it's a bad situation and he also didn't have his beliefs, didn't line up with the way that that I believed from what I could see in the Bible and what the church had traditionally, traditionally believed. So I went to him and just said, you know, I've got some problems and he did not respond to those. And so like the Bible says, I went to other brothers. I went brought it up in elders meeting and he ended up leaving. And I learned a lesson there, you know, like as soon as he left, like it was a good thing. I thought it was a good move for the church. It was a hard time. It's a hard way to lead through ministry, especially as the youth minister. But then after that happened kind of the church wanted me to take over senior ministry. And I did not want to do that. So that was, that was rough. And then we didn't have a ministry more and some people were mad. And so I ended up just saying, you know what? I don't think this is a good place for me to be right now. And I took a little break. So this, we had already had John Michael and we got pregnant again with Joel. So Joel was in the oven, as they say. And she was a horrible time to say, hey, you know what? I think we're going to have to find another job. And so I kind of left that elders meeting and said, hey guys, I'm done. I didn't know what I was going to do. I had a factory and just really praying. And you know what's interesting is I can say without a doubt that is that time in my life is when I got closer to God than I've ever been. I was right back in Russia, lonely, nothing. I had to rely on God. Didn't have any money. Didn't know what I was like. This is a dumb idea. I'm working at a factory. I remember going out and just like the lunches, I would just pray. God please help. You know, whatever I'm supposed to do, just show me what I'm supposed to do. We looked at several churches. Churches wanted us to come in Kentucky. It's just, it wasn't right. And so, and we're like, who are we to, you know, beg? Like we don't have, we don't, beggars can't be choosers, right? But I knew at this point, I want a ministry that is going to help my family and also that I'll be able to pour into. And so one ministry wouldn't wear a couple others, we looked at. And then we got a call from Glen List and in Katie, Texas. At a church of like 750 and growing. And they're like, okay, here's what we need. Is a children's minister. And I'm like, I'm out, you know, I'm a youth minister. That's, that's. Yeah. I'm like 24 at this point. And Glen's like, no, here's a deal. I want you to come down and check out the church. We're going to fly you up. We'll pay for everything. You just come in and check it out. And so we went to this church in Katie, Texas. And really, Glen, I picked us up at the airport. The senior guy there was just like, wow, this is. I can work here. And we actually talked before we even went, we talked to the youth minister's wife, which is Julie Peterson. And she's to this day, Julie and Jeremy are best friends. And when we got on the phone, she was from Oklahoma, which we were, I grew up in Tyro, Kansas, which is right across the board. So we grew up in the same area. It just clicked. And so we went and checked it out, loved it. Glen said, don't worry. You're going to be the children's minister only one year. And then we're going to hire a junior high minister. And that can be you. And then, you know, I'm like, okay. So moved to, moved to Katie, Texas, as soon as Joel was born, like a week after he was born. And then, which is like in July, August, it was so hot, it's ridiculous hot. So we got there. And man, I fell in love with children's ministry. And it was probably because his leadership made me understand that what children's ministry was, and how it really fit my gifts. And so first thing he said was like, hey, find the best children's ministry in the United States. And I want you to go to that church and learn how to do that. I'm like, okay, so I started doing research. I ran into Willow Creek at the time. That was the biggest, the best children's ministry was Sue Miller there. I said, Glenn, I think this is where I need to go. He's like, all right, did book the tickets. I've never been in a church where there's like money to book plane tickets. Like, what is this? And so I booked tickets. I went to Chicago. I hung out with their team. In fact, I just got back from a conference and realized David Rosh that is now go curriculum. He was there at the time. And so I just loved the way that they did small group, large group, and like this whole philosophy around, like, children have to have fun in church. Or they're not going to learn the word of God. Like, it's got to be fun. And I'm like, I love this. And so from there, man, I was all children's ministry, that junior high position. I think came up and Glenn mentioned something about it. I'm like, no way. I'm, I'm in this, you know, I'm loving it. And so I had a great ministry and Katie Tis for about five years, four years, I think. And it was, it was incredible. God, God really showed me a lot of different things. And then now looking back at my life, it's like, wow, like I went from a church of, I mean, when I say 70, barely 70, like 45 is, you know, all the way to church of 700. And there's a lot of differences. But there's a lot of similarities. And one thing that's similar is kids are kids. And they need Jesus. And so, yeah. And that was, that was the next step in hot Houston, Texas. That's where we ended up. I'm Lexington. I think your father-in-law picked a good one for his daughter, because I admire your willingness not to sacrifice your families, well-being for the sake of the call, because I see a lot of that happening. I'm like, oh, if we just struggle here and there, but like, I think, like what you're experiencing with that church in Houston is, is a good thing. Like you need this mutual benefit of each other. Otherwise, pastors can use in like abuse and like squeezed out. So, I'm glad you got that experience. Yeah, yeah. And that was, I mean, I probably learned a lot of that, which was working with your father-in-law as a senior guy. You know, it could be like a nightmare to some people, but I learned a ton of good things from him. And that was probably more his influence and slow down. You know, I know that you're 24 or 25, but slow down and really think, like if my family was here, how could we, what does it look like? And so, yeah. Yeah. I want to backtrack a little bit. I mean, you don't have to get into too many specifics, but what was like some of the things you disagree with that you wanted to bring out with that previous pastor? Yeah. So, the biggest thing was basically over baptism and, you know, in the non-denominational faith, we believe in Acts 2.38, where it talks about, you know, what must we do to be saved, be baptized? And that's, you know, that's it for us. And so, when we would have people that would come forward, he would say, yeah, well, it's not that big of a deal. Maybe we'll get baptized in a couple of weeks or whatever. And, you know, I mean, I'm not going to get into the debate with people whether it's right or wrong, but I can tell you that, you know, if you're going to teach something, you know, look at the Bible, see what it says, as close as you can. We know that it does talk about baptism in the Bible. It's there, we can't deny it. Now, there are some cases where you could say, well, these people didn't get baptized, okay. But if your way is right, you know, like Jim, if we don't baptize people and we're wrong, because we're not very smart, we're just humans after all, then we're really wrong. But if I'm wrong and, you know, people don't need to be baptized, and that's what the Bible's saying, but we still baptize them, we're okay. And so, when it comes to teaching, man, I really feel like you need to teach that baptism as a part of salvation. And that's what the church will lead to. And he just, he didn't. And it was in the elders' meeting, I actually pointed out three or four things, and then I brought that up and said, you know, this is it. And actually the elders at the church said, well, you know, Michael, we need to give Jim another chance. Like he's, he needs to have another chance. And he stood up and said, no, Michael's absolutely right, and I'm going to resign, because we should not have been living the life that we were living. And so, it was tough, man, standing up for your faith, and what you really believe can sometimes put you in a path where you feel like you're all alone. And, you know, I'm not the judge, I don't know. I can't tell you for sure, but I know what I believe, and I got to stick to that. That that was the major thing. Yeah, you did what you thought was right, and for the kind of the church, but, you know, you got to leave the outcome to God. But just to clarify, he kind of like denied baptism, or he just minimized it. We thought he just more minimized it, and that was the kind of the spiritual thing that was wrong. The bigger things that were wrong was he was misusing money, loan sharks were calling the church, like it was ridiculous. Like there's no way that he could have continued on. Yeah, I didn't want to get into all that thing. That's just another. There's church and money, and you know, that's just in your hand. Oh, man, yeah. Okay, so let's kind of fast forward a little bit. How did you get connected with church amps? Yeah, so after Katie and Houston, I actually got a, there's a new guy that came in, and there's a lot of things that we just weren't really seeing eye to eye on the way that the ministry should go. And nothing, nothing real big, but it was like, I think it's time for us to move again, and thank goodness that I have a awesome wife and family, because she was like, all right, if God's calling us to move, then we need to move. And so we kind of put it out there that we were looking in Cedar Ridge, Christian Church, which is now called Ridge Christian, and Broken Arrow, Oklahoma called us, and said, hey, we need a children's minister, and we think that you're the right guy for the job. We're kind of a unique campus, because we have 700 at the main campus, but then we have a multi-site situation where we have a campus in Suppolba, Oklahoma, and then next year we're gonna have a campus in Kuida, and we're hoping to go to like, you know, seven, eight campuses. I'm like, that's a challenge. Like, that's what I need. And so I was on board there, we moved to Cedar Ridge, and just did ministry there. I really learned a lot about multi-site and how to get in children's ministry, so multi-site is one thing, and then multi-site children's ministry. A lot of times can just be kind of left behind, like, oh, it doesn't matter, but there's a lot of stuff that has to happen every, there's not enough money as my kids got older. Like, I realize I'm gonna have to, I'm gonna have to find some more money somewhere, not to mention every time that I've talked about moving, we've lost $10,000 on the house. Just, that's the way it goes, and so I basically started a couple small businesses and learning kind of the entrepreneurial side of me. And so doing that, learning how to do multi-site, I was, there was two, a few girls in our, in our children's ministry, Carrie and I called ours, because we did ministry a hundred percent together. And they were, they were those parents, like, the kids of the parents that just, every time you'd send something home, they would like, you know, fill out the paper, whatever we need to do, you know, they're just on it, and they're awesome. And so we do like memory verses on Wednesday nights, and they'd be the first ones to go through all the book and memorize them, get all of us. Like, they were just, they were on top, just amazing. Katrina and Ali. And so, I, unbeknownst to me, their dad was a coder, and he kind of had been watching what I was doing with those businesses, and with a couple of things, and like, how I got technology into the classrooms, and dealt with the multi-site, watching digital signage, which is what I was into. And so, at the same time, he was watching me, I had no idea, but kind of backing up a little bit. When I left Katie, there was a guy there that basically, he loved Jeremy, which I mentioned Jeremy Peterson and me, like doing ministry together, and then we were in a place where we weren't doing ministry together. He's like, hey, why don't, why don't you guys come back and start a church and bell air? And we're like, you know what the church really needs? Is they need this, something that puts us together, but something to help with technology. They do small churches have no idea how to even get a website up. But they go into, you know, whatever, and it's going to cost them tons of money. And at this point, it's like, you know, gosh, was it 2019, or something like that? Well, now it's about 2009. There's just tons of people going on jumping on this, like churches need websites, and then you could pay, and you get on monthly fee, and we're like, dude, it doesn't cost that much. So let's start something to do that. He agreed, so he funded a nonprofit called Live Church Solutions. And that, we kind of made websites, so we gave it like, we have 40 churches, and we're just giving them, we even bought their domain names. You know, just to try to help out churches, and we would go to churches and like, help them with their tech, which is like one by one. And so, fast forward, now I'm in Cedar Ridge, this guy that's been there, had his daughters and children's ministry, he comes to me and he's like, hey, I've kind of got this, like I know about your digital signage, I think I can help you scale it. And I'm like, what is scale? Which is, you know, I'm a children's minister running a tech company. And so, he did know how to scale it. I went from using Raspberry Pi's to have an Amazon Firestick app to be able to sell what we had all over the world. And then behind that, he's like, well, really what I want to do is, you know, I've got this idea for like a nonprofit that would help churches with technology. I'm just not sure what's direction to go. I'm like, well, I've got this nonprofit over here. We started looking at it. And then church apps was born because Live Church Solutions is a horrible name. And so, we got rid of Live Church Solutions the guy that was doing that turned out to be a coder and he is incredible. And so, he started coding a church management software because I said, you know, churches need a church management software that is not something that he had to spin up a .net server with and not something that he had to pay monthly for because small churches need this. I didn't really think about it. Like I explained to him what we did with Planning Center, what would be cool, like the structure of it. A year and a half later, he came back and said, hey, I coded a church management software. Why don't you check it out? And that's kind of where church apps started. So, that's how I got connected. God, God put all the pieces together because if you look at it in hindsight, it's like, well, if I wouldn't have left Lexington, if I wouldn't have gone here, it wouldn't have been started. If I wouldn't have known, like, God had a plan. It's very easy to see in hindsight. So, what are some of the products that you guys currently offer? Yeah, so obviously a church management software. It's called Chums. So, if you go to churchapps.org, you can find all of them listed there. But the church management software is very comfortable to, I'd say like a breeze at this point, almost like a Planning Center, it'll do everything that Planning Center will do in there. And then we have Lessons.Church. So, that was the next one. I'm all children's ministry. So, I'm like, hey, here's what we really need. And I noticed this when I was in a small church, like I would ask bigger churches, hey, could we use your curriculum? Like, what are you using? Yeah, we're using this. Just pay $2,500 a year. And then you can use it too. And I'm like, $2,500 a year. You might as well say, you know, give us a million dollars, because churchapporty cannot afford that. And so, I always have this desire to give away curriculum. I tried writing my own curriculum. And it just takes, it's ridiculous amount of time. And then to write out the quality and have videos at the quality that we needed it, you know, it was just like this, how are we going to do this? Like a God-sized problem. And so, I basically said, you know, straight about it and start reaching out to people. We got connected with a publisher through sign presenter that I was working with. I was like, hey, is there a curriculum that that somebody would sell us so that we could just give to churches? He's like, you know, there's this, there's this church in Conroe, Texas. It's called the art. And they've been working for like 10 years on this curriculum. And it's pretty good. I think you should go talk to them. So we did, turns out, they'd spent a million, million plus dollars on making a curriculum that was for their church, but also with the idea that they would be able to share it with other churches. And we said, well, what, if we build a platform that would allow people to schedule out like a years worth of curriculum and then it automatically shows up on their TVs, on their iPhone apps, we can spread it around the world. If we did that, would you create the, would you give us all the curriculum for free? And they're like, absolutely, that's our heart. That's what we want to do. So that's where lessons dot church started. And that's one of our products. And then from there, we've got all kinds of, like, it's a great platform. And so those are Christian College, which I mentioned before. Next level resources. I mean, you can pay for right now or you can get them all free on lessons dot church. And then we have several others that, and it really is just a hub for people to be able to schedule their curriculum out. So that's, that's the second product. And then B1. So B1 goes back to the original idea of giving people websites. But now in 2024, it actually looks like Wix. And so you can make your own website. It's all 100% free. We hosted 100% free. You tie your domain to it through a C name. And so if you're comparing it to something, I would compare it to like a substlash. And so we have the app. It's the B1 app. And you can sketch. You can put whatever you want to on there. It also works with chums and lessons dot church. And so that kind of ties everything together. And then it brings in sermons too. So B1 dot church is another one. And then lessons dot church B1. Sorry. We have a couple free show. And so free show is another god story. We started doing this. I guess we really started with church. And so we started with church. I guess we really started with church. I was about four years ago going hard. And then a couple of years ago, we ran into free show. And we're like, what is this? And if you haven't checked out free show, free show, it is basically pro presenter, but 100% free. And there was, we figured out who was writing the code for it. And they had the same heart that we did at Kristoffer. And so we called them and said, hey, he's 23 in Bible College. Like, what do you want to do with your life? Are you going to be a preacher? Is that what you're about? He's like, no, man. If I could just code all day long and then give it all to the church, that's what I want to do with my entire life. And we're like, we got to hire this guy. And so we did. And so he came on to the team. And he is in Norway. He codes every day. And as part of that, basically free show became part of the church app's family. And so we've taken it and helped him develop that even more. And so, yeah. Those, I think those are all the apps. So what is your hope for let's just say you can get super famous and successful? Like, what is the dream? Yeah, not to be super famous and successful. We want to make God and Jesus super famous and successful. And the way that we feel like we can do that is through open source software. So to date, there is some open source software that's that's for the church. I'm thinking of Brock R. Sim. I think is what it's called. It's probably the biggest one. The church management software. But you have to spin up a .NET server. It's great, guys. A great team working behind that. But the average church of 40 can't do it. And so, we really feel like acts in acts for it. Talks about all the churches when they had all their needs that came together. And they're really, we feel like we can do that in the digital space. And so, that's our hope. It's not that, you know, that will be famous for this. We are putting this out for the church. In fact, if you go to GitHub, you can download and use 100% of our code. It is truly open source. And so, our hope is that within by 2030, we're saving the church over $4 million every year so that that money can go back into ministry. This year, so far, we've said the church around 180,000 since two years ago, 287,000 something like that. We try, we're trying to double that every year to get us to that goal. And then beyond there. So, I mean, just think of all the ministry that could be done and could be done more efficiently if the church of 40 has the same tools as the church of 10,000. And that's right now as completely possible. In fact, I would say that lessons.church will hold up to anything that any big church anywhere has. Like, it is, it's the top. And so, if you're a church of 40, then you're able to use the best of the best. And so, not that we want to continue doing all this. And it's happening. That's what's really cool about this is we started it. But now, we talk to people all over the world, all over the globe that are contributing to our code. I mean, it's open source. That's how open source works. And we just feel like that's that's what God wants. And so, that's what we're trying to do. I like a shirt. And also, for the audience, Michael does a weekly demo on faithfully. Yeah. Show the product. So, let me ask you a last two questions. What are you hoping for faithfully? Why am I hoping for out of faithfully? Yeah. So, faithfully is really cool because it connects all the church leaders together. And so, I hope that faithfully grows to get every church leader there. That's the spot where they go. And because from there, we can help network out and show people that these are the products we have. So, we feel like church apps and faithfully work really good together. And so, our hopes and faithfully is that people will see what we're doing, understand it, be able to jump on. Right now, we're offering tutorials through Lessons.Church. We haven't had a lot of people doing them. But we want more. And so, hopefully more people will do those. And then we're going to open it up to chums, to free show, all of our apps. So, that faithfully is kind of like a learning hub for everybody that wants to learn more about this open source software and utilize it in their churches and save money in their churches. And how could we be praying for you? Yeah. So, pray, as we grow, we're just, it needs more and more and more and more and more. Which is great. And so, like we get feedback all the time, hey, if I had a video for this, if I had this, you know, and we're trying to do that. And so, we need more prayer warriors. We need more money. You know, that's always a thing. And so, pray that God provides that so that we're able to continue to grow and make this a real. Thanks Michael. This was fun. Yeah. Thank you. All right, this is for the podcast, guys. Thank you for tuning in to the Faithly Stories podcast. We pray this episode gave you the encouragement you needed to continue on your journey. The Faithly Stories podcast is brought to you by Faithly. An online community committed to empowering church leaders, pastors, staff, and volunteers. The Faithly Digital Platform offers innovative and practical tools and resources to enhance connection, foster collaboration, and promote growth within the church and ministry space. Remember to subscribe, rate, and review our podcast to help reach more listeners like you. Stay tuned for more uplifting tales from the frontlines of ministry on the Faithly podcast. Stay bold, stay faithful, and never underestimate the power of your own story.