Is AI Really the Devil? - Pastor Keith Odom | Faithly Podcast

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a production team to come in and chop up my sermons and turn my sermon into a five day devotional and give me social media clips and give me Sunday school curriculum and give me Bible study curriculum and give me, right?

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You have now, but AI as a tool can do all of this for you.

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This is the Faithly Podcast.

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Alicia Lee Welcome to another episode of The Faithly Podcast.

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My name is Alicia Lee, and I'm joined once again by my friend, my advisor, my co-host, Rev.

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Elliot Johnson.

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We are joined today by Pastor Keith Odom.

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Rev.

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E.J.

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and Pastor Odom are longtime friends, and I had the pleasure of meeting Pastor Odom at a recent Church of God in Christ convention in Baltimore.

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Pastor Odom serves as the Director of Technology for the Church of God in Christ, or Kojik, and Kojik is one of the largest denominations in the world.

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Pastor Odom is also a technology leader in the marketplace, and he's also a pastor, and I think it's safe to say that we have a lot to learn from him today.

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Pastor Odom, welcome to the podcast.

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We are so glad that you are here today.

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Thank you.

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Well, thank you for having me.

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I'm honored to be with you.

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Well, so let's start at the beginning, Pastor Odom.

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What was your journey into ministry?

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And did you always sense God calling you into both technology and ministry?

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Yeah, absolutely.

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As a young boy, as a kid playing in the floor of my grandfather's home, I can remember my grandfather talking to my grandmother and saying, as if I wasn't paying attention, God's going to use that boy in ministry.

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And so while other kids, when I was younger, I always had this ability to build things.

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My degree is in construction management.

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And so I've always had a natural knack of just building.

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So while other kids was out building clubhouses and treehouses, I was building churches.

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And because I was the oldest cousin of all my cousins, I would build a church and as the oldest, you had to come to church.

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And so we were having church on Saturday and mimicking what we saw on Sunday morning.

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So, yeah.

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I have been in ministry for a long time.

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Of course, formally acknowledged my call to ministry when I was somewhere around 15 or so and was under the mentorship of my pastor and leader.

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And but I've been in ministry a long, long time.

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So.

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Pastor Odom, you serve as a lead pastor at the Place of Grace Church in Orlando, Florida.

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Tell me, how is serving as a local church pastor shaped the way you think about technology?

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And also, does it give you a different perspective than someone coming purely from the tech world?

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Share with us.

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Yeah, you're right.

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So, yes, I do serve as a pastor of a local church.

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And I'm...

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My perspective, I think, is a bit unique because I've always had a love and a respect for technology my entire life.

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I was the type of individual that would take things apart and try to put it back together.

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As I said, I kind of have a natural inclination to build things.

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And so being a pastor and leading a congregation, there's this healthy respect for technology that's kind of interwoven into the aspect of our ministry.

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I've always seen technology as a tool.

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no more than a microphone or an instrument or a projector or screen or whatever.

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These are tools to help enhance the ministry, experience the preaching and the delivery of the gospel, understanding that people learn and experience the gospel in different ways.

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And so I've always had this process.

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this ideal that ministry can coexist with technology and that technology can be used as a tool to help with the presentation, to help with the delivery, and even the understanding of the gospel.

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I think I'm a little different because, you know, someone coming in who may not have a strict ministry perspective and who's just coming straight from the marketplace is

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Well, certainly I think look at technology and how technology can be utilized in ministry.

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But of course, as a pastor, I live those challenges every day of the week.

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I remember many, many years before COVID, we were trying to go online and start our streaming broadcasts again, many, many years before COVID.

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And yeah.

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I remember trying to do some research on the best equipment and the best software and how best to set up so that we can do our live streaming.

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And I just had a hard time.

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I made a lot of mistakes.

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I made, I purchased equipment that we didn't need.

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I purchased software that we didn't need.

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It was expensive because I was learning.

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I didn't know what we needed.

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I didn't know what we didn't need.

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And the.

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I just didn't have a lot of resources to help guide me.

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But I made a lot of mistakes in the very early years, but we finally got our live streaming up and running.

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Again, this was many, many years before COVID.

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And then once we got our live streaming up and running, I then put a document together and began to make it available to any pastor who wanted it and say, listen,

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here's a tool, here's a recommendation, here's the equipment that I'm recommending that you purchase for as far as hardware, as far as software.

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Here's why I'm recommending this equipment.

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And I tell you, I couldn't give it away.

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people were just so adverse to embracing technology at that time.

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And then all of a sudden COVID hits and then people are banging that, knocking down my door and said, Hey, you remember that document you were trying to give me, can you please give it to me now?

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You know?

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And so I said, sure, here it is.

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Here's what you need to do.

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And now people are trying to rush at the last minute and do this.

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Whereas when we, when COVID hit for us,

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We didn't have to make any changes because we was already doing what other church was trying to learn how to do.

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I want to dig a little bit more into your background.

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Ministry is so central to who you are.

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But your history and your depth and your experience in the marketplace is just as deep.

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And I believe it began at MIT.

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So take us through a little bit of your technology and your marketplace background.

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In high school, I worked at a construction company as an intern, and it was a summer intern.

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It was when it was supposed to last one year, and it lasted four years.

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I came back.

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I was asked to come back every year over the four years that I was in high school.

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And so I got under the mentorship of some of the young men who was working there as project managers at this construction company in Boston.

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And they said, listen, you should go to college, get a degree in construction management, and you'll be very successful.

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And so I did.

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So once I graduated college, the year that I graduated, the construction industry in Boston took a downturn.

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And so there wasn't a lot going on.

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And I started working for an insurance company.

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and the insurance company didn't have an IT department, so to speak.

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And so I started working in their kind of makeshift, if you would, IT department, and started writing some code and became the resident expert in Excel and things like that.

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Excel was really just starting to come out, so people were just trying to learn what Excel was all about, and I kind of mastered it.

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And that became the launching pad for my technology career, if you will.

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And so from there, I went to another company where I was focused more on IT and was able to land at MIT.

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When I went to MIT, I went to MIT actually because the organization at the time was going through a systems upgrade.

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And they needed people to come in and assist with that upgrade.

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And so I was selected to come in and be a part of that.

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And of course, being at MIT, I stayed on, was hired as a, what is known as a fiscal controller.

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This is the individual who's responsible for the financial management of the grants, directed research, et cetera.

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And during MIT, I was working at the Media Lab.

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If anyone knows anything about MIT, and particularly the Media Lab, the Media Lab is the most innovative part of MIT.

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It is, so when people were, we were at that time, this was probably the early 90s,

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mid-90s.

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And there at MIT, we were into robotics, wearable computing.

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AI was huge, of course, back then at MIT.

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And so we were really pioneers with a lot of the stuff that we're sitting happening today.

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I saw 20 years

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25 years ago at MIT.

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I tell people that everyone is excited about the meta glasses that recently came out.

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We saw that 22 years ago at MIT.

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It was developed at MIT in a media lab.

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And 22 years ago, we was walking around at a reception with these glasses on, doing a prototype, sending emails to people, proving that this works.

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And so, so everybody's excited about it now, but I saw it 22 years ago.

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Wow, that's really incredible.

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Now, how did you come to be the director of technology for Kojic?

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Very interesting.

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Yeah.

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There was a gentleman who came to my church.

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He was the—so the Church of God in Christ has an election every four years for the office of the presiding bishops.

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And this was an election season at the time.

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And there was a friend of mine.

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He came to my church and he actually spoke at my church and we went out to dinner.

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We were sitting in TGI Fridays and we were sitting at dinner and, um,

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And he's asking me questions about my background and technology, etc.

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And so he asked me a question.

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He says, are you going to vote for Bishop Sheard?

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At that time, Bishop J.

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Drew Sheard was the he was a general board member.

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The general board is what governs the church, 12 men who governs the church.

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And from those 12 men that who governs the church, one is selected as the presiding bishop, which is the leader of the church.

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And so Bishop Sheard at the time was running for the office of the presiding bishop.

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And so he asked me, hey, are you going to vote for Bishop Sheard?

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Have you considered voting for Bishop Sheard was his question.

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And I said, no, not really.

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And he says, well, let me tell you why you should.

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And so he began to explain why I shouldn't.

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I said, okay, this is great.

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This is good information.

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I'll consider it.

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And so he.

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He then said, listen, the church needs you.

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Someone like you with your abilities, with your insight, with your technology acclimate, we could really use someone like you in the national church.

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I was a bit skeptical because I'm like, in the church, you know—

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I don't think you guys are really ready for this.

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But sure, it was entertaining.

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So long story short, it's the election night.

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They have the election.

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Bishop J.J. Shield is elected as Poseidon Bishop, and I get a phone call from him.

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He calls me and says, hey, Pastor Odom, I heard about you, and I want to know if you're willing to serve as the director of technology for our denomination.

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And I say, sure, you know, I'd love to.

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And then he says, wait a minute, I think I know you.

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Don't I know you?

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And I'm like, well, you probably don't know me, but you know my family.

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Yeah.

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Um, because Bishop Shearer's aunt was a member of the church that I grew up at in Boston.

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And so Bishop Shearer in his younger days used to come to Boston all the time and preach at our church.

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And so he knew my family, the Odom family very, very well.

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And so he's like, yeah, I thought I knew your name.

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And I'm like, yep, you know, my family.

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And so anyway, that was great.

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I guess now six years ago or so.

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And that's how I became the director of technology for the Church of God in Christ.

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Wow, that's an amazing story.

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So let me ask you this.

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Is the role of director of technology, is it unusual to have a role like that in a denomination?

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Sure.

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Sure.

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I think it depends on the organization itself.

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I think with coaching, this is the first time that we've had a formal director of technology.

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Now, we've had other people who have led IT initiatives within the denomination, but from a formal appointed by the presiding bishop, given the reins to lead the denomination's technology, digital strategy.

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This is the first time that anything like this has actually happened.

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As the director of technology, my number one role is to come alongside the presiding bishop and to advance his agenda by the utilization and implementation of technology.

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So whatever it is that he's trying to do.

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whatever his initiatives are, what I'm hoping to do or what I'm tasked to do is to bring technology alongside so that we can make this happen.

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We can fulfill his ultimate vision.

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Aside from that, or probably coupled with that, is that I become a resource not just for the corporate church, so to speak, but for every individual church that needs what we offer.

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So I'm a resource so that any local church,

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can reach out to my office and say, hey, we're struggling with something or we're trying to do something or we're thinking about doing something and we want to know the best way forward.

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And it doesn't really matter what it is.

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If it's technology related, my office can step in and help and assist.

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And we believe that this is a value add for every local church that's a part of our denomination, that they actually have someone that they can pick up the phone and call and get help.

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practical help for their local churches.

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Wow, that really is some incredible leadership from Bishop Shear to recognize that he had MIT Media Labs in the house to bring that creativity, to bring that experience into the denomination.

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I hope other denominational leaders are listening to this.

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I hope it sparks something for them because it sounds like it really is, has been and will continue to be a real blessing to Kojic.

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Absolutely.

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Absolutely.

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Yeah, I agree.

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Kojic has definitely taken steps in a direction, right, that's bold, but they've got the right person leading the charge.

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And with that being stated, Pastor Rodham, when you think about churches overall, what's the biggest technological or technology mistake that you see churches are making today?

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I think the biggest mistake that I see churches making today is still their inability to respect and to embrace technology.

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I think, and I'm speaking globally, not specific to any organization or denomination, because I think everybody's in different places, even within the context of the Church of God in Christ, for example.

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You have some churches that are incredibly important.

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They embrace technology.

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They lean forward into technology.

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They're not intimidated by it.

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And then you got some other churches who are like, I want nothing to do with it.

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It's the devil.

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And then you got people who are somewhere in between them.

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But I think the challenge that many churches face is that we instinctively

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demonize what we don't understand.

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So instead of trying to learn and say, and just admit, hey, you know, I don't understand what this is all about or how this is even practical from a ministry perspective, but I'm willing to learn.

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I'm willing to at least be in a position where if someone can show me and help me better understand it, that would be,

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then that'll help me make a decision on how we move forward.

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But I think by default, we just say, that's the devil.

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And I don't want no parts of it.

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And the church has done that through generations.

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When the TV came out, the church said, the devil is the one-eyed devil.

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And we don't want no parts of it.

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You know, when the radio came out, well, that's the devil.

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We want no parts of it.

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Yeah.

217
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And we just kind of instinctively do that.

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And now that we're in this age of AI, if you will, and emerging technology, again, a lot of churches.

219
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I teach a lot of classes within the Kojic organization, and I had one of the bishops came to me and said, I don't fool with AI, it's of the devil.

220
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And I said, yes, sir.

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You know, yes, sir.

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And I said, well, Bishop, let me ask you a question.

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Have you ever received a phone call from your bank?

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Maybe there was some fraudulent charge in your credit card or your debit card.

225
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Yeah, I have.

226
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I said, Bishop, aren't you glad the devil is looking out for your money?

227
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And I said, because Bishop, that was AI at work.

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You do realize that no one is sitting in front of a computer watching your transactions.

229
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in determining whether or not your transactions are legitimate or not.

230
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That's not a person.

231
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That's AI.

232
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And AI has been doing this for years for you.

233
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And he says, oh, wow, I didn't know that.

234
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That's AI?

235
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Yes, sir.

236
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That is AI.

237
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So I think we have to be careful what we say when we don't know what we're talking about.

238
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So just in the, since we are talking about AI, let me just go here with this.

239
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So like you said, some pastors are somewhat excited about it.

240
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Others are nervous.

241
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They call it the devil.

242
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Yeah.

243
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You're just giving us a practical perspective of it with the analogy of fraudulent banking.

244
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But how about a biblical perspective?

245
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Can you give us a biblical perspective around why artificial intelligence is something that we shouldn't be nervous about and somewhat excited about?

246
00:20:43.623 --> 00:20:53.751
Well, again, because artificial intelligence is simply a tool where people are reluctant to artificial intelligence or reluctant to embrace.

247
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And I try to educate them and let them know that artificial intelligence has been around since about 1956.

248
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You've been using artificial intelligence in many parts of your life, just wasn't aware of it.

249
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As far as ministry, practical ministry applications, and from a biblical perspective, the Bible says that we're to preach the gospel in the entire world.

250
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Then will Christ return when the gospel has been preached everywhere.

251
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When you look at the practical tools of AI, one of the things that we did this year within the Church of God and Quaise at one of our conventions is we implemented a new technology that is AI-powered for language translations.

252
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And so Church Garden Christ has congregations literally around the world.

253
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And we have people who travel from around the world to attend our conferences and conventions.

254
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And oftentimes, if you look throughout the congregation at these massive conventions, you may have a person sitting in a row and,

255
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And they're literally translating the service to two or three or four people who are sitting next to them.

256
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And so what we did this year at one of our conventions is we implemented a tool, which was a language translation tool.

257
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This language translation tool has 196 languages.

258
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And so all you have to do is scan the QR code.

259
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We put the QR code up on the screen.

260
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Scan the QR code, and they can put their device in their earbud in their ear, and they have their phone in their hand.

261
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And not only can they listen to the message in real time in their language or in 196 languages that they can choose from, but then the words that are being spoken are also being displayed on the device.

262
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That is AI, and that is AI being utilized as a practical ministry tool that is helping to spread the gospel to the entire world.

263
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That's a great example, Pastor Odom.

264
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What I hear you saying is that AI is accelerating the work that we're all called to as believers.

265
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It's accelerating the work of the Great Commission.

266
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Absolutely.

267
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There are probably some areas where we ought to be cautious about AI.

268
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When you talk to pastors, how do you guide them?

269
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Well, like anything, you have to know what the pitfalls are.

270
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And I think the first thing, and please forgive me for being repetitive, but I think the first thing that pastors must be willing to do is first be willing to say, I don't know everything.

271
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And so instead of me just going out and just demonizing it and just calling it the devil because I completely reject it because I don't know it, we should learn.

272
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We should become educated.

273
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Which, again, which is why I try to ensure that at every convention that happens within our denomination, we are actually talking about AI, the tools, the pitfalls, the concerns, the rumors.

274
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We try to deal with all of it so that there's a balanced conversation around that topic.

275
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Now, beyond that, there are true legitimate pitfalls and concerns with AI.

276
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AI is a tool that can be misused in many different ways.

277
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You have deepfake, you have...

278
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AI is so powerful now that if I wanted to, I could have Reverend EJ with just taking about 15 seconds of his voice and two or three pictures of him.

279
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I could have Reverend EJ standing on a table in a bar with a beard in his hand, butt naked, singing a national anthem.

280
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Yeah.

281
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That's how powerful AI is.

282
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And it would take almost an expert to determine that that's not Reverend EJ standing on that table with that bureaucratic in his hand.

283
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Right.

284
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And so these are legitimate concerns that the church must be aware of.

285
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But how do you fight an enemy if you haven't studied their strategies?

286
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You can't.

287
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In our denomination and in most churches, we become experts in studying the enemy and being aware.

288
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The Bible even says that we're not ignorant of the devices of the enemy.

289
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And yet, when it comes to these other things, we're completely ignorant of these things because we have not made ourselves students.

290
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We have not properly leaned in to understand, even from just from a general sports perspective.

291
00:25:48.508 --> 00:26:08.006
analogy, if you're going to the Super Bowl and you've got your opponent, most likely you're going to be watching the film of your opponent, studying their strengths, studying their weaknesses, so that you can understand the best defense to mount.

292
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You cannot just go into the game and not have studied your opponent.

293
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You're going to be able to study your opponent.

294
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And I think a lot of times those are the mistakes that we make within the body of Christ is that we are refusing to study the issues.

295
00:26:23.408 --> 00:26:29.311
We make blanket statements in hoping that that somehow resolves us of our responsibilities.

296
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So there are legitimate issues within AI.

297
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The church must be aware of them.

298
00:26:36.676 --> 00:26:37.797
We've got to talk about them.

299
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We've got to make sure that we have processes and policies in place.

300
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The church has to be at the table leading these conversations, not in the background reacting to these realities.

301
00:26:54.588 --> 00:26:55.069
Amen.

302
00:26:56.470 --> 00:26:56.950
Amen.

303
00:26:59.715 --> 00:27:06.178
So I want to ask you a question around this word, digital transformation.

304
00:27:07.198 --> 00:27:07.538
Okay?

305
00:27:07.898 --> 00:27:12.840
And when you think about that word, some people may immediately think it's about software.

306
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Some do.

307
00:27:14.161 --> 00:27:17.122
I know, Pastor Odom, you think globally.

308
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You think you have a kingdom-preneur-minded perspective.

309
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You think much bigger.

310
00:27:21.484 --> 00:27:28.847
Tell me, what does a healthy digital transformation actually look like for a church?

311
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So because every church is in a different place, I think every church has to go through an individual analysis and determine where are we as a ministry and how can technology assist us in the next level.

312
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One example, one very practical example that we are, that we are looking at doing in our own local church.

313
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Um,

314
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There are churches that the larger churches, I should say, the larger churches.

315
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These are churches that has two, three, four, 5,000 members.

316
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These churches, many of them have a do the American sign language within their services.

317
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Maybe they have multiple services, two, three, four services, and maybe one of their services, they offer the sign language capabilities.

318
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Yeah.

319
00:28:27.016 --> 00:28:39.634
One of the things that we're doing within the Church of God in Christ and also within our own local church is we're now evaluating software that will create an avatar.

320
00:28:40.618 --> 00:28:41.138
on the screen.

321
00:28:42.299 --> 00:28:46.122
And now that avatar will become, will be due to the American Sign Language.

322
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Here's what that does for us.

323
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One, it alleviates me from having to go and hire a person to be at multiple services.

324
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It then alleviates me from saying to people who may need what I'm offering that you can only come to this service if you're needing this particular service.

325
00:29:07.482 --> 00:29:17.251
So what has once made, was almost unattainable for smaller churches, AI is now levering the playing field.

326
00:29:18.112 --> 00:29:19.893
So what does digital transformation look like?

327
00:29:20.434 --> 00:29:21.435
Well, it looks like this.

328
00:29:22.015 --> 00:29:24.618
For a church to look at, what are your ministry goals?

329
00:29:24.658 --> 00:29:25.959
What are your ministry aspirations?

330
00:29:26.679 --> 00:29:28.821
And again, that's going to be different for every organization.

331
00:29:29.422 --> 00:29:32.144
And then say, okay, now, how does technology...

332
00:29:33.045 --> 00:29:36.390
come alongside us and help us get to this goal.

333
00:29:36.590 --> 00:29:50.047
It could be something as simple as, hey, we want to offer a second service in a different language because we have a lot of people in this particular community or that surrounds our church.

334
00:29:50.888 --> 00:30:05.019
and who speak this particular language, and we don't have necessarily an interpreter to come and do this, maybe what we can do is utilize the language translation solution

335
00:30:05.840 --> 00:30:07.341
Well, that's digital transformation.

336
00:30:07.461 --> 00:30:25.234
That's taking technology and embedded it into the culture of your ministry and using it as a tool so that you can then enhance not only the worship experience within your local church, but then begin to make a broader inroads into your community.

337
00:30:26.175 --> 00:30:33.080
So digital transformation is about analyzing the objectives of the ministry.

338
00:30:34.417 --> 00:30:47.581
determining what your goals are, and then bringing to the table the resources, the technology resources that can help you make that happen.

339
00:30:48.082 --> 00:30:57.005
What was once completely unaffordable, if you were a church, and remember the average church in America is less than 100 members, the average church in America.

340
00:30:57.545 --> 00:31:03.127
The average church of God in Christ's church is less than 50 members, the average church.

341
00:31:03.927 --> 00:31:19.737
And so for many, many churches, regardless of what the nomination that they're in, for many, many churches, all of these ideals were almost out of reach because who had the budget to hire a full time sign language person or who had the budget to hire a.

342
00:31:21.638 --> 00:31:35.745
a production team to come in and chop up my sermons and turn my sermon into a five-day devotional and give me social media clips and give me Sunday school curriculum and give me Bible study curriculum and give me, right?

343
00:31:36.045 --> 00:31:42.869
You have now, but AI as a tool can do all of this for you, literally, in a matter of minutes.

344
00:31:43.669 --> 00:31:47.031
So it evens the playing field regardless of what size your church is.

345
00:31:48.310 --> 00:31:56.236
When you fast forward five or 10 years from now, is it still going to be AI that has the biggest impact on churches?

346
00:31:56.256 --> 00:32:06.584
I think one of the greatest challenges that the church is going to face in the future is how to remain a human connected church.

347
00:32:07.565 --> 00:32:09.206
Let me give a little bit more context to that.

348
00:32:10.868 --> 00:32:12.409
AI is going to continue to advance.

349
00:32:13.430 --> 00:32:13.570
Yeah.

350
00:32:15.488 --> 00:32:21.611
AI, it's been said that the worst that AI will ever be is where it is today.

351
00:32:22.531 --> 00:32:28.674
Meaning it's getting better, faster, smarter every day.

352
00:32:29.875 --> 00:32:34.016
Five years ago, you could look at something and say, that's AI, no doubt about it.

353
00:32:34.036 --> 00:32:41.640
Now you look at something and you have to seriously question whether this is real or not, because it is so convincing.

354
00:32:43.287 --> 00:32:51.874
One of the challenges that the church is going to have to deal with is how do we remain human over the next generation?

355
00:32:53.155 --> 00:32:57.098
How do we keep that personal connection?

356
00:32:58.038 --> 00:33:05.724
I think this becomes the church's greatest moment because I think the church still offers something that AI will never be able to offer, and that is the human touch.

357
00:33:08.867 --> 00:33:10.508
Ministry has got to be practical.

358
00:33:11.520 --> 00:33:17.902
And I think that's where tools like technology and AI can come in place to help make ministry practical.

359
00:33:18.262 --> 00:33:19.763
But ministry must also be relatable.

360
00:33:20.743 --> 00:33:21.864
You got to be able to touch people.

361
00:33:22.544 --> 00:33:28.666
And I think the church has the infrastructure to keep the personal touch in place.

362
00:33:29.991 --> 00:33:36.193
If we don't squander this opportunity that's before us, I think we can make serious inroads.

363
00:33:36.233 --> 00:33:48.177
But I think the church has got to be smarter with the way that we do ministry and never lose that personal touch, even while trying to advance with technology as a platform.

364
00:33:49.797 --> 00:33:50.338
That's good.

365
00:33:53.159 --> 00:33:54.879
Yes, indeed, indeed, indeed.

366
00:33:55.479 --> 00:33:57.040
So, so.

367
00:33:58.045 --> 00:34:00.346
Pastor Rodham, let's look ahead.

368
00:34:00.366 --> 00:34:01.847
All right.

369
00:34:01.987 --> 00:34:12.993
What are some of the changes that you think will have the biggest impact on churches that today many leaders are really paying attention to?

370
00:34:13.354 --> 00:34:17.396
I've gotten the most comments off this particular teaching than any of my other AR teachings.

371
00:34:18.517 --> 00:34:24.160
And it was entitled, The Antichrist and the Last Days.

372
00:34:25.100 --> 00:34:26.061
I end the last days.

373
00:34:27.565 --> 00:34:37.807
And it was really a revealing of how the Antichrist will use AI as a tool to advance his agenda.

374
00:34:39.448 --> 00:34:52.290
I think the church has got to be alert and aware of these devices and how technology is going to be used against people.

375
00:34:53.390 --> 00:34:55.331
And I think that we've got to be able to counter that.

376
00:34:56.560 --> 00:35:09.166
I think the other challenge that we're going to see more and more is you're going to see robotics becoming more integrated, even within the context of church.

377
00:35:11.027 --> 00:35:16.569
If you look at society, where society is going, you now have cars that drive themselves.

378
00:35:16.829 --> 00:35:22.672
You now go to grocery stores and you're being encouraged to go to the self-checkout, you

379
00:35:23.232 --> 00:35:29.279
Although it's been sold as convenience, there's a deeper, deeper agenda that's at work here.

380
00:35:29.980 --> 00:35:36.608
And that agenda is to get you and I as humans accustomed to and comfortable with working with machines.

381
00:35:37.870 --> 00:35:39.972
And so machine learning.

382
00:35:41.193 --> 00:35:46.296
The integration of human and machines are going to be coming more and more pronounced in our everyday lives.

383
00:35:46.837 --> 00:35:50.259
And I think you're going to start seeing some of that bleeding in within the church.

384
00:35:50.879 --> 00:35:53.000
Again, the church is going to have to deal with these things.

385
00:35:53.861 --> 00:36:01.525
Another thing that we see very often is that there's a clear discipleship dilemma going on within our churches.

386
00:36:02.605 --> 00:36:07.068
We come into church, we're hearing a very good sermon, but we're going to be

387
00:36:09.250 --> 00:36:11.492
Many churches don't have a clear discipleship plan.

388
00:36:12.152 --> 00:36:15.915
They don't have a clear discipleship structure.

389
00:36:16.436 --> 00:36:20.199
People are not engaged during the week.

390
00:36:20.219 --> 00:36:21.700
And it's a serious problem.

391
00:36:22.340 --> 00:36:26.243
I think these are things that the church has to continue to wrestle with and try to find solutions for.

392
00:36:26.824 --> 00:36:31.968
And so there are many, many issues that I think the church is going to have to deal with over the next couple of years.

393
00:36:32.008 --> 00:36:33.029
But I do think that...

394
00:36:34.570 --> 00:36:58.997
The human element, the machine to human interaction is going to be something that the church better awaken to, open their eyes to, and start having these conversations about how do we as a ministry better position ourselves so that we can better minister to the people in our congregations.

395
00:37:01.432 --> 00:37:02.473
That's really good.

396
00:37:03.494 --> 00:37:08.318
Are these the kind of conversations you're hoping to have at the Church and Technology Summit?

397
00:37:08.998 --> 00:37:16.405
I want to talk a little bit about the summit and the vision behind it and the kind of conversations that church leaders can expect to have there.

398
00:37:18.326 --> 00:37:18.607
Yes.

399
00:37:18.867 --> 00:37:23.591
So these are exactly the kind of conversations that we're having at Church and Technology Summit this year.

400
00:37:23.611 --> 00:37:24.832
Yeah.

401
00:37:25.968 --> 00:37:32.651
What we're hoping to do at CTS, as we call it, is not to have a conversation around theory.

402
00:37:32.791 --> 00:37:34.851
I think we're all past that.

403
00:37:35.712 --> 00:37:38.293
I think people need to see something practical.

404
00:37:38.773 --> 00:37:42.434
So what we tell people is if you're going to come to CTS, bring your laptop.

405
00:37:43.255 --> 00:37:43.415
Yeah.

406
00:37:44.817 --> 00:37:50.702
And of course, pastors, please, for whatever you do, please do not come by yourself.

407
00:37:51.082 --> 00:38:01.831
Yeah, you'll get a lot out of it if you came by yourself, but you'll get a whole lot more out of it if you brought people for your team, whether they're volunteers on your staff or paid employees.

408
00:38:02.351 --> 00:38:04.233
You need to bring these people.

409
00:38:04.733 --> 00:38:05.834
One, we got over 60 sessions.

410
00:38:05.874 --> 00:38:06.135
Right.

411
00:38:06.835 --> 00:38:10.679
There's no way that you can consume all that information by yourself.

412
00:38:11.439 --> 00:38:28.154
60 sessions over eight tracks, and we're dealing with next-gen in emerging tech and AI and production engineering and technology and creatives and communications and church administration and leadership development.

413
00:38:28.214 --> 00:38:32.719
We're dealing with all of these components here at CTS Network.

414
00:38:33.339 --> 00:38:46.064
But then we're sitting down and we're having these very practical conversations about AI and where the church need to be prepared and the loopholes and the blind spots that the church is facing right now.

415
00:38:46.384 --> 00:38:48.265
And how do we deal with these blind spots?

416
00:38:48.825 --> 00:38:52.626
How do we project where we think things will be in the next five to 10 years?

417
00:38:52.726 --> 00:38:54.507
And what should the church be doing?

418
00:38:54.847 --> 00:39:01.750
What should the church be building so that we're not continuing to react, but we're now leading in these areas?

419
00:39:02.430 --> 00:39:06.091
So CTS is really going to push the envelope.

420
00:39:06.131 --> 00:39:13.693
But then the other part of CTS that I think is important to announce is that it's going to be a very immersive experience.

421
00:39:13.713 --> 00:39:18.895
So, yeah, you're going to be greeted by robots when you get the CTS.

422
00:39:19.055 --> 00:39:20.235
There's going to be avatars.

423
00:39:20.675 --> 00:39:21.375
at CTS.

424
00:39:21.816 --> 00:39:27.519
There's going to be an avatar that's going to be doing the American Sign Language at CTS.

425
00:39:28.719 --> 00:39:38.704
You're going to be able to select from 196 languages and you're going to be able to sit in the session and listen to those sessions in whatever language you choose at CTS.

426
00:39:38.744 --> 00:39:39.024
Why?

427
00:39:39.365 --> 00:39:47.069
Because we want to show the pastor and their staff the practical ministry applications

428
00:39:51.285 --> 00:39:52.185
Try this right now.

429
00:39:52.985 --> 00:39:57.767
In a real-world scenario, this is what it could look like in your own local church.

430
00:39:59.367 --> 00:40:01.308
Wow, that's really exciting.

431
00:40:02.228 --> 00:40:06.009
Tell our listeners, like, the high-level details.

432
00:40:06.429 --> 00:40:07.369
It's in October.

433
00:40:07.609 --> 00:40:15.992
It's in L.A. And tell them, like, if they're getting really interested in some of this stuff you're talking about, and they're wondering, ooh, could this be for me?

434
00:40:16.032 --> 00:40:16.952
Like, what would you tell them?

435
00:40:18.352 --> 00:40:18.772
Absolutely.

436
00:40:21.184 --> 00:40:23.366
We are going to be in Los Angeles, California.

437
00:40:23.386 --> 00:40:25.107
We're going to be at the Hilton LAX.

438
00:40:25.848 --> 00:40:28.290
That is the Hilton at Los Angeles Airport.

439
00:40:30.051 --> 00:40:32.573
As I said, it is eight tracks.

440
00:40:33.314 --> 00:40:34.195
It's three summits.

441
00:40:34.375 --> 00:40:36.016
It's the Church and Technology Summit.

442
00:40:36.677 --> 00:40:37.838
It is the AI Summit.

443
00:40:38.058 --> 00:40:43.822
It is the Entrepreneur Summit, all convening or converging together so that

444
00:40:44.703 --> 00:40:46.885
So you don't necessarily have to be in church.

445
00:40:46.905 --> 00:40:59.434
You don't have to be a church volunteer or church employee or someone who's working in the life of the church to experience what is going to be happening at CTS.

446
00:40:59.474 --> 00:41:02.476
Because we have a whole entrepreneurial track.

447
00:41:02.556 --> 00:41:09.241
If you're trying to build your brand or build your company or expand your company or get your company ready to sell things,

448
00:41:09.781 --> 00:41:10.981
That's your entrepreneurial track.

449
00:41:11.261 --> 00:41:27.704
We have a whole AI track that's focused not just on ministry, but on the technology behind AI and workflows and energetic workflows and how to monetize AI, et cetera.

450
00:41:28.104 --> 00:41:35.246
So we've got an entire, we're bringing experts from across industries at CTS this year.

451
00:41:35.806 --> 00:41:36.846
That's going to help people.

452
00:41:37.306 --> 00:41:53.392
to think broadly, more broadly about technology and how it can be utilized within their local context, regardless of whether they are ministry, business, just someone who's just a techie and they want to know kind of where things are headed.

453
00:41:54.472 --> 00:41:56.053
That's what the conference is going to be focused on.

454
00:41:57.014 --> 00:42:07.981
Well, so let me ask one more question, because I know some of our listeners are wondering right now, is this just for Kojic leaders or can any church leader or any business leader take part in this conference?

455
00:42:09.202 --> 00:42:10.983
This is for everyone.

456
00:42:11.503 --> 00:42:12.184
Everyone.

457
00:42:12.204 --> 00:42:14.665
It doesn't matter who you are, where you from.

458
00:42:15.786 --> 00:42:20.429
We have people who literally come from across the world to attend CTS.

459
00:42:21.009 --> 00:42:24.612
We have many, many denominations represented at CTS.

460
00:42:24.632 --> 00:42:24.892
CTS.

461
00:42:25.952 --> 00:42:34.758
We have large churches, small churches, medium-sized churches, startup companies, companies that have been around for a long time.

462
00:42:35.238 --> 00:42:45.005
There's an enormous community of supporters at CTS, and our community only grows each year.

463
00:42:45.065 --> 00:42:49.988
So it is going to be a pretty phenomenal experience this year.

464
00:42:50.608 --> 00:42:55.710
So, Pastor Odom, it sounds like CTS is an Xperia to me.

465
00:42:59.332 --> 00:42:59.712
It is.

466
00:43:00.312 --> 00:43:03.274
And because it is an Xperia, tell me this.

467
00:43:03.614 --> 00:43:04.254
How about this?

468
00:43:05.735 --> 00:43:19.641
If there's one session, one conversation there during that whole Xperia, what especially excites you about that this year?

469
00:43:21.740 --> 00:43:33.745
Well, if there's one conversation, if I had to choose the one that comes to mind, and it's really the one that I love every year, we do every year something called the Tech Town Hall.

470
00:43:34.305 --> 00:43:38.227
And with Tech Town Hall, we bring together leaders in the marketplace.

471
00:43:38.247 --> 00:43:39.807
We bring technology leaders.

472
00:43:39.827 --> 00:43:46.190
We bring church ministry leaders together all on one stage, and we talk about very hard-hitting issues.

473
00:43:51.172 --> 00:43:54.335
systems before demand requires it.

474
00:43:54.735 --> 00:43:56.036
It's about forethought.

475
00:43:56.137 --> 00:43:57.197
It's about insight.

476
00:43:57.257 --> 00:44:15.534
It's about how should the church stop reacting to things and start projecting what's coming and building the systems, building the processes, putting these things in place before the demand requires it.

477
00:44:16.214 --> 00:44:16.635
And so,

478
00:44:18.495 --> 00:44:22.338
It's going to be a pretty powerful conversation this year.

479
00:44:22.918 --> 00:44:32.905
And to me, it is probably people, I think people leave with an enormous amount of not just inspiration, but insight about our future.

480
00:44:33.565 --> 00:44:38.569
And I would tell anyone, don't miss that Tech Town Hall this year.

481
00:44:38.589 --> 00:44:40.250
Amen.

482
00:44:41.258 --> 00:44:42.218
That's wonderful.

483
00:44:42.358 --> 00:44:47.539
Now, I know that Pastor Odom has thrown out a lot of information about the conference.

484
00:44:47.940 --> 00:44:48.620
Don't worry.

485
00:44:49.420 --> 00:44:58.562
For those who are listening, who are interested, we're going to be including all of this information in the show notes so that you can visit the website for CTS.

486
00:44:58.582 --> 00:45:04.884
So you can visit Pastor Odom's website and tap into all the details of these important resources.

487
00:45:05.764 --> 00:45:07.844
Pastor Odom, we are coming up on time,

488
00:45:11.345 --> 00:45:17.349
Not every pastor, not every church leader out there is comfortable with technology, as we've talked about.

489
00:45:17.469 --> 00:45:18.990
It can be intimidating.

490
00:45:19.050 --> 00:45:21.411
It's always changing, especially now.

491
00:45:21.531 --> 00:45:32.358
If you can leave a word of encouragement for the pastor who may be feeling a little overwhelmed about all this, but wants to learn, wants to be a student, what would you tell them?

492
00:45:34.720 --> 00:45:36.741
I think I would tell them, be honest with where you are.

493
00:45:38.118 --> 00:45:41.640
but then utilize the resources that God has already given you.

494
00:45:42.560 --> 00:45:53.345
You as a pastor may not know everything there is to know about technology, but I can promise you, most likely, you got people in your congregation who live and breathe this.

495
00:45:54.286 --> 00:46:02.250
And I encourage people, I go around the country, and one of the things that I really encourage churches to do is implement a ministry of technology.

496
00:46:03.010 --> 00:46:04.831
Most churches have a music ministry.

497
00:46:04.891 --> 00:46:06.191
They have a children's ministry.

498
00:46:06.611 --> 00:46:08.532
They have a greeters or usher ministry.

499
00:46:08.552 --> 00:46:10.133
They have a hospitality ministry.

500
00:46:10.573 --> 00:46:15.695
Because all these components are important to the life of the church and to see its progression.

501
00:46:16.035 --> 00:46:16.575
And that's good.

502
00:46:18.003 --> 00:46:26.113
let's take technology and stop making it this secondary scary thing that we don't understand and that we hope that we don't need.

503
00:46:26.633 --> 00:46:31.819
Bring it to the forefront, give it prominence and establish a ministry of technology.

504
00:46:32.800 --> 00:46:36.725
And then just as you have people who have passion for children, who,

505
00:46:36.825 --> 00:46:48.791
Just as you have people who have passion for greeting, just as you have people who have passion to be in your first impressions ministry and working your parking lot and helping people to park, those people have a passion for what they do.

506
00:46:49.232 --> 00:46:54.714
You've got people sitting in your congregation that has a passion for technology, yet you don't engage them.

507
00:46:55.275 --> 00:46:56.155
You don't involve them.

508
00:46:57.136 --> 00:46:59.457
You treat them as they don't even exist.

509
00:47:00.177 --> 00:47:05.140
And they're leading, many of them are leading technology in major companies.

510
00:47:06.468 --> 00:47:08.231
And you won't even have a conversation with them.

511
00:47:08.811 --> 00:47:10.193
And then you wonder why you're struggling.

512
00:47:10.614 --> 00:47:19.487
Establish a ministry of technology, invite them to the table, and let them help you advance the agenda of the ministry through the power of technology.

513
00:47:20.592 --> 00:47:20.972
Amen.

514
00:47:21.592 --> 00:47:22.072
Thank you.

515
00:47:22.132 --> 00:47:28.054
Your words are full of wisdom and challenge, and I think it's much needed in the church.

516
00:47:28.554 --> 00:47:32.775
Thank you, Pastor Odom, for the eye-opening conversation today.

517
00:47:33.515 --> 00:47:34.356
I've learned a lot.

518
00:47:34.496 --> 00:47:36.696
Thank you, Rev EJ, for co-hosting with me.

519
00:47:37.416 --> 00:47:42.338
This has been just a great conversation, and I look forward to learning more from you in the future.

520
00:47:42.418 --> 00:47:43.458
Thank you, Pastor Odom.

521
00:47:44.599 --> 00:47:45.459
Thank you for having me.

522
00:47:45.479 --> 00:47:47.400
It's been great being here again.

523
00:47:47.921 --> 00:47:51.322
And I failed to give you the website for Church and Technology Summit.

524
00:47:51.582 --> 00:47:53.343
So let me do that for you real quick.

525
00:47:53.383 --> 00:47:55.744
It is churchandtechnology.com.

526
00:47:55.924 --> 00:47:59.486
Church and A-N-D technology dot com.

527
00:48:00.307 --> 00:48:01.347
Everything you need is there.

528
00:48:02.528 --> 00:48:03.048
Perfect.

529
00:48:03.128 --> 00:48:05.809
And as I said, we'll include that in the show notes as well.

530
00:48:06.730 --> 00:48:07.470
Thank you, everyone.

531
00:48:07.650 --> 00:48:08.411
Thank you, Pastor Orell.

532
00:48:08.431 --> 00:48:08.851
Thank you.

533
00:48:08.911 --> 00:48:09.591
Thank you, Lisa.

534
00:48:09.631 --> 00:48:11.252
God bless you all with love and happiness.