Learning to Work With God - Dr. Kimberly Nash Alexander | Faithly Podcast

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The church takes a month off.

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No committee meetings.

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No, no, no Sunday school.

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No, just for one month.

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Everybody takes a break.

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This is the Faithly Podcast.

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Welcome to the Faithly Podcast.

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I'm your host, Alisha Lee, and I'm joined today by two very special people.

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The first is Reverend Elliot Johnson, Senior Advisor to Faithly.

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Our guest is his longtime friend and my new friend, Dr. Kimberly Nash Alexander.

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When I first met Dr. Kim, I was eager to learn about her ministry.

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eager to tell her about Faithly, but what I did not expect is that I would be ministered to on that first call.

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And that's why I'm so excited to have her on today, because she's going to share her story, she's going to share her calling, but I have no doubt that she will also minister to you in this conversation.

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So, Dr. Kim, welcome.

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Oh, thank you so much, Alicia.

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I so enjoy getting to meet you and having the opportunity to be able to share today.

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And as always, appreciative for Dr. Elliot Johnson and for all that he pours into my business, Deeper Roots Soul Care.

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Wonderful.

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Well, I'm excited to dig in even deeper with you today, Dr. Kim.

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So let's start at the beginning.

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Before anyone knew you as Dr. Kim, who were you?

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And when did God first begin drawing you to Him?

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Sure.

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I would say my maiden name is Nash.

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And because my first name is short and my last name is short, people would call me Kim Nash like it was one word.

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And so that was the the way I grew up.

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And I think God was always drawing me to him.

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I don't think there was anything he wasted in trying to get my attention and to draw and connect me to him for life.

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As I think about growing up and who I was before this, I just realized that I was a person who was contemplative to begin with.

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You know, the kid who talks too much and asks too many questions and always wants to know why.

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That was me.

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Amen.

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Amen.

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Well, you know, Lady Kim, I remember when we had first sat down and we met one another and Lady Hope was with us.

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And you talked about your past and you share with us, you know, a story about your parents.

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And you're being enrolled in Catholic school, doing a real different season of desegregation.

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And when you reflect on it, how that experience made you want to become a nun, right?

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I'm sorry about being a nun.

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Yeah, looking back now, what do you think?

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What were those seeds of nuggets that God was planting in your heart?

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Sure.

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Those early years of your life.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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You know, in the 60s, early 60s, North Carolina, which is where I'm from, it was going through so much turmoil with desegregation.

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So my parents, along with a lot of their friends, sent us to Catholic school.

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And I think for me, it created a foundation of belonging, right?

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that most people didn't have during that season of being in a small environment with the same 30 kids going to school together from the first grade to the eighth grade.

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And then I went on and did an extra year at Catholic High for a year.

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But during that time, I think the

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The liturgies and being able to have words when I didn't have words for things that were going on was valuable.

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I think the other piece for me was faith and education and how they went hand in hand.

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The value of education, I think for me as a woman of color, my parents, you know,

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Education is the way to achieve that you needed to be educated, that that was necessary.

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But having an order of nuns who was so intent upon developing our character as well as our education made, I think, a huge difference for me in how I went about living my life, even as a kid, learning how to apologize, learning how to...

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do things in a different way.

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And the last thing I think is just the value of community, learning what it means to work together in a community at a young age.

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You know, team sports produces that, but when you're in a classroom like that, the small of 30, over those many years, you begin to know each other, love each other, and care about each other as family.

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Wow.

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Yeah.

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God was planting in my heart these seeds, these seeds that were contemplative, that were drawing me to him.

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And the nuns that we were with would go roller skating with us.

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So I was like, they can love the Lord and be normal.

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Yeah.

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So me wanting to to be a nun, I think, was just this desire for even then a deeper relationship with the Lord.

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Well, I bet that most of our listeners, I bet most of them are assuming you went right into ministry when you finished your education, but that's actually not what happened.

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When you finished your education, you went into speech pathology.

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Can you talk about why you chose that field and what did those years teach you?

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Yeah, I actually did speech language pathology because I wanted a helping profession.

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I started out in the School of Communications and in the School of Communications, I wanted to do broadcasting.

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And I took a couple of classes and I really did not like it.

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I found it very empty.

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I found myself reading things that were on a page.

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There was no interaction.

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There was no connection.

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And I realized I needed to have a paycheck of the heart.

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I needed to feel like I was making a difference.

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And so I loved English and biology and just am amazed with the brain and the language center and all of the neuroanatomy.

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And so I began to take classes in speech language pathology and realized that I really did love it.

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I love the variety that I could do hospitals and clinics as well as school and private practice.

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So all of it gave me the flexibility that I wanted.

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The one thing I think that is a connection that I don't think I've realized until recently is that speech language pathology really focuses on listening and listening.

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And what I'm doing now as a spiritual director really is listening, is being attentive, because hearing and listening are not the same thing.

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You can hear and not listen.

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So learning how to listen well as a speech language pathologist, I think, has really helped me as a spiritual director to be able to listen, listen to what's being said and to listen to what's not being said and also listening to God at the same time.

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So I think that's how speech pathology has really impacted me over time.

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Amen.

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Amen.

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So Lady Kim, you know, when you think about your life and you think about it in the spirit of seasons, where you worked full time and then there was that season where you had, you raised your family.

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And then there's that season of career transitions.

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Tell me and share with us, how did you learn to trust God's timing instead of measuring your life like we tend to do by a traditional career path?

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Yeah, yeah.

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I think, you know, this is such a great question because I think so often we have these milestones that we want to reach.

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And we're trying to reach a certain milestone by a certain age.

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We want to do this by a certain time.

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And God just told me no striving.

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You know, and I had a mentor who told me,

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When you take care of God's business, he'll take care of yours.

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You won't miss anything.

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And I think I had what I would call FOMO, this fear of missing out, that if I spent time working without kids and doing the things that I was missing something somewhere, and if I spent time home with the kids that I was missing something somewhere.

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And she said to me, when you focus on dealing with what God wants you to do in the season that you're in, those things will come back to you.

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And you will have the opportunity to do the things that God is calling you to do.

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And she was so right.

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So what I did was just listen and to be able to pay attention to what God wanted for me in each season.

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And to realize, first of all, that it's seasons.

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Because I think too often we feel like it's going to always be like this.

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You know, as a mom, you're going to always be dealing with diapers.

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No.

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You're going to always be dealing with they won't sleep all night.

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No.

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No.

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Everything has a season to it.

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And being able to appreciate that season and realize it's not permanent.

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It's a progression.

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It's a continuum of what God is doing in your life.

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And that really helped me to not feel like I needed to be doing what everybody else was doing.

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And it gave me the freedom to be able to listen to what God wanted from me.

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at that moment.

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And so, you know, when the kids were really, really young, I was home initially.

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Then I went back to work and I worked during their elementary school years.

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And then in high school, the Lord was like, you need to be a little more attentive to what's going on with them.

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And so I came home.

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And then, you know, as they went off to college, I was like, well, now you can start to work on some other things.

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So, you know, there was this rhythm, this cadence that I had to pay attention to with the Lord.

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Hmm, that's really beautiful.

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And I think your life has been a great example of someone whose ministry has unfolded over many years.

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Now, was there a defining moment that you knew, ah, this is, this is it, like God is calling me into this work now?

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Yeah.

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Well, before we answer that question, I do want to say that I think that all of our life is calling.

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I think parenting is calling.

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I think singleness is calling.

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I think all of it has its own way of shaping and forming us and calling us to attend to what God is doing.

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And so, yeah.

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Sensing this call to come home, to be with the girls in high school, realizing that the car was probably the best place to hear what happened for the day.

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So having other people pick them up was not sufficient because all the good stuff happened as soon as they got in the car.

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Right.

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And then for me, with ministry, when I first married my husband, he had been pastoring for three years.

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And so I had issues with God about being a pastor's wife, like, really, Lord?

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And now that I look back, it's like, you know, that is kind of like being a nun.

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But at the same time, as I think about it.

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I realized that I had to wait for what God wanted me to do, even within our church, because everybody had an idea of what I should do, you know, whether it was youth ministry or whatever.

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But listening for what God was calling me specifically to do and what he designed me for was necessary.

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And the moment in which he revealed to me, he gave me this word.

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He said, I want you to empower women.

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to live in the fullness of their relationship with Christ.

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And I said to him, well, that's women who are already saved.

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That's not evangelism.

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Is that even ministry?

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And the Lord was like, it's discipleship.

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It's mentoring.

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I was like, yeah, it is.

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But I didn't think of it that way.

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And I think sometimes we think our gifts are not pretty because we see other people, you know, missionaries and doing all these other things.

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But when we ask him what he's created us for, what he's designed us for, it's always something that's specific to us.

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And one day I was at...

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my private retreat place.

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I go to this little place once a month to have some time alone with the Lord.

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And it was a beautiful summer day.

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And this green leaf falls from this tree.

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And, you know, it's that lilting floating back and forth, back and forth.

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And the Lord was like, it's time to release something that is alive and well in your life.

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And I had gone back to speech pathology and I had been sensing that God was like, OK, it's time to transition.

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You've been doing this on the side.

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It's time now for you to do some things full time.

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And it was at that moment that I was like, I need to release this job.

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And so I said yes to God.

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And when I said yes to him, you know, all of the worries that I had fell in place.

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He brought someone to replace me that I loved and I knew would be able to do well with the patients that I would no longer be seeing.

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But he was faithful.

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He just wants our obedience.

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And I think if we're listening and we're following, we won't miss the seasons in the right time.

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Amen.

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Amen.

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So, you know, Lady Kim, you are married to Bishop Claude R. Alexander Jr., an individual whom has grown to be.

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a mentor to me, a spiritual advisor.

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I'm an only child, so he's the little brother from another mother with the same Holy Father I never had, but I look at him as that as well.

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You know, you serve, as well as he being, you know, a prominent international and national church leader, but you serve as a pastor's wife and first lady, and I've witnessed you serve it at a very, very high level.

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You know, that's a role that has unique joys and unique pressures as well.

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How has that experience shaped the leader and shepherd that you've become?

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Wow.

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I would say that for me as a pastor's wife, my first calling is to intercede for my husband and to make a house a place where he can come away from the craziness of ministry and have a place of peace.

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You know, that's first and foremost for me.

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It's not about me finding places to exercise my gifts because my gift of caring for him is really the first gift that I have.

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And so being able to be attentive to that.

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I think praying for our spouses is something other people can't do the same way we can't.

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because we see things about our spouses that are so totally different than what everybody else sees.

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So our ability to intercede has significantly more power.

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I think for me, the way ministry has evolved was stepping into this space of empowering women to live in the fullness of their relationship with Christ.

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And that looked like women's ministry.

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Yeah.

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And so we began simply with retreats.

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And I laugh because I still do women's retreats and I absolutely love them.

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How I do them has changed because I've changed and grown, but it's still something that I'm passionate about and that I enjoy doing.

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And I can say that over time, my prayer life has changed.

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And I think initially, you know, I was praying about things, praying about my husband.

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Now I pray for him.

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And if you're married on this podcast, you'll catch that.

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So it's not about all the things that are doing, but for him, for what is on God's heart, for him in this season.

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in a way that helps me realize that it's about God growing people, growing us.

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So I tell the leadership team in our church, which is absolutely amazing, it's about 17 women who work together to do all of the ministries that are under the women's ministry at the church.

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And when there are always conflicts come up, and I think the church is a place to understand conflict resolution.

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What is God touching in you in the midst of this conflict?

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And what is he wanting you to discern about you and about the other person?

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And so really, it's not about getting something done because God can do things without us.

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It's about who we become in the process of getting it done.

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And so that piece is spiritual formation.

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And it always has been.

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And it's been part of what I think leadership is, that leadership makes us, shapes us and molds us.

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And when we look at Moses and his experience of dealing with people, we really catch that being able to see his ability to be either, what is it, failure of nerve or failure of heart.

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Yeah.

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Right.

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Amen.

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00:19:14.361 --> 00:19:15.261
Yes.

214
00:19:15.421 --> 00:19:31.027
So being able to understand that, you know, as much as you have a heart for the people, there are times when you also have to care for yourself and not give away so much that you can't pour into other people because you're not allowing the Lord to pour into you.

215
00:19:33.292 --> 00:19:37.493
Rev, EJ mentioned the unique pressures of being a pastor's wife.

216
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I think we all know there are unique pressures, but I think that sometimes those pressures can be unseen, that there may be burdens and responsibilities that are hard for others to understand.

217
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Do you think you can give us a sense of those burdens that perhaps the broader church doesn't understand?

218
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Sure.

219
00:19:58.724 --> 00:20:01.427
I think there are several things.

220
00:20:01.908 --> 00:20:10.018
I think, first of all, ministry can be a very lonely place, just as leadership can be a very lonely place.

221
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So I think it's so important for you to be able to have a group of people.

222
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I will call it a posse, a posse of people who can support you and who you can be authentically yourself with.

223
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And it's necessary to have that space to feel healthy.

224
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And I think for me, there's a small group of pastors' wives who have come out of our church, whose husbands are pastoring either in the city or in other cities, that we've regularly get together together.

225
00:20:43.700 --> 00:20:50.844
to support each other, to listen to one another, to hear from one another, because there's more grief than most people face.

226
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I think dealing with the death of our own family, but dealing with family members within the church.

227
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We've been at the church for 33 years.

228
00:21:01.790 --> 00:21:07.894
So to actually know people for that long and then lose them is just very hard.

229
00:21:09.015 --> 00:21:10.595
And then, of course, there's always...

230
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hurt when people do things that are hurtful to you.

231
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So learning how to forgive and to forgive well so that you don't become stuck is also part of, I think, this whole ministry piece of understanding.

232
00:21:27.379 --> 00:21:30.040
And to realize that spiritual warfare is real.

233
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I think when the enemy comes, he starts coming for us because if he can come for us as pastor's wives, he can get to the whole church.

234
00:21:38.502 --> 00:21:40.384
He can get to the pastor's family.

235
00:21:40.845 --> 00:21:45.110
And we have to realize that the enemy is not the people in the church.

236
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The enemy is not our spouse, but the enemy is real and our ability to realize who he is and the ways that he comes at us.

237
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And he never has anything new.

238
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He comes the same way with different clothes on.

239
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But we have to know who he is when he comes for us in order to be able to do warfare in a way that covers us, covers our families and covers our church.

240
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So, you know, having friends that are outside of the church, having friends that you can pray with and pray for.

241
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And lastly, you.

242
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I think initially there was a period in ministry where I just was feeling like, oh, my gosh, this is 24-7 is dragging me through all of the woes of everything everybody in the church is going through.

243
00:22:37.217 --> 00:22:39.179
And I realized I just needed.

244
00:22:39.860 --> 00:22:55.550
some pure delight in the Lord, whether it's to go outside and run through a sprinkler or to go to a concert and listen to good jazz, but finding something that you enjoy that feeds your soul.

245
00:22:55.670 --> 00:22:57.871
So, you know, what makes your heart sing?

246
00:22:58.171 --> 00:22:59.212
Are you doing that?

247
00:22:59.572 --> 00:23:04.135
Are you spending so much time doing for God that you're not spending time with God?

248
00:23:05.332 --> 00:23:06.613
Amen, amen.

249
00:23:06.633 --> 00:23:10.355
That's another good segue because we're talking about wellness to a certain degree.

250
00:23:10.875 --> 00:23:20.701
So when we talk about healthy connection, healthy community, what does that look like for pastor's wives?

251
00:23:21.501 --> 00:23:30.687
And then how can churches do a better job of caring for the women who are so often caring for everyone else?

252
00:23:32.840 --> 00:23:35.621
some words of wisdom that you can pass on?

253
00:23:36.101 --> 00:23:37.522
And what have you done?

254
00:23:38.302 --> 00:23:40.003
Yeah.

255
00:23:40.343 --> 00:23:43.724
Well, I think this group of friends, we do regular dinners.

256
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Each person, we rotate who chooses the restaurant.

257
00:23:48.325 --> 00:23:52.126
We all go out and we have a dinner time that we all hang out together.

258
00:23:52.466 --> 00:23:57.228
And then once a year, we have a spa day where all of us go out to the spa together.

259
00:23:57.628 --> 00:24:05.573
But we also, if somebody is going through something, we'll pick up the phone and do a prayer call with all of us to be able to intercede.

260
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And then sometimes it's just saying, hey, there's a play.

261
00:24:09.615 --> 00:24:10.236
I want to go.

262
00:24:10.256 --> 00:24:14.478
Anybody want to go with me so that that fun piece can be there?

263
00:24:15.899 --> 00:24:21.303
And it's also back to the listening is having someone who can listen and.

264
00:24:22.304 --> 00:24:29.355
And if you have friends, you know, there's one friend who you can talk to and she will listen for a little bit and she'll say, OK, that's enough.

265
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It's time for us to get over this and to move on.

266
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And you need that person because you don't want to be stuck there, but you also need the person who is going to deeply listen and ask you deeper questions.

267
00:24:42.260 --> 00:24:44.961
Like, you know, why is this bothering you so much?

268
00:24:45.061 --> 00:24:47.202
Do you think you want to talk about this more?

269
00:24:47.282 --> 00:24:50.663
What are you learning from God in the process of this experience?

270
00:24:51.164 --> 00:24:54.605
You know, what are you learning about yourself in the process of this?

271
00:24:55.065 --> 00:24:59.447
So, you know, having I have a I wouldn't call it.

272
00:24:59.807 --> 00:25:02.948
Well, I do have a prayer partner, but I also have an accountability partner.

273
00:25:04.169 --> 00:25:05.970
I think that makes a difference.

274
00:25:06.010 --> 00:25:12.995
My accountability partner is the one who will say to me, you seem to be going on 10.

275
00:25:13.375 --> 00:25:15.376
Don't you think you need to rest?

276
00:25:16.397 --> 00:25:19.579
Or, you know, practicing Sabbath is important to me.

277
00:25:20.100 --> 00:25:24.783
And I have to be accountable to my accountability partner that I'm taking a Sabbath every week.

278
00:25:25.923 --> 00:25:27.364
And what does that look like?

279
00:25:28.524 --> 00:25:30.825
People time versus task time.

280
00:25:31.005 --> 00:25:32.645
I can be very task oriented.

281
00:25:33.046 --> 00:25:38.407
So making sure that I have time to call a friend, to spend some time connecting to people.

282
00:25:38.427 --> 00:25:40.588
That's not just ministry.

283
00:25:41.068 --> 00:25:46.273
You know, that's actually feeding me as well as me pouring into someone else.

284
00:25:46.313 --> 00:25:53.860
So I think all of those things are part of healthy connection and community for for pastor's wives.

285
00:25:54.280 --> 00:25:55.481
What can the church do?

286
00:25:56.502 --> 00:25:57.503
A couple of things.

287
00:25:58.964 --> 00:26:04.248
One of the things I think that has been a blessing for our church has been sabbatical.

288
00:26:05.289 --> 00:26:13.235
My husband took his first sabbatical at a critical time when his brother passed at what Robert was too young.

289
00:26:13.495 --> 00:26:16.857
He's 39 to pass away.

290
00:26:17.118 --> 00:26:21.961
And that sabbatical was necessary for our entire family.

291
00:26:21.981 --> 00:26:22.942
Yeah.

292
00:26:23.302 --> 00:26:30.485
He was at a point where he spoke up and said, you know, I'm functioning, but I'm just not functioning well and I need a break.

293
00:26:30.605 --> 00:26:39.988
And the church, you know, was attentive to that and planned for it, taught the church, did lessons on what sabbatical is.

294
00:26:40.508 --> 00:26:44.790
I think in our tradition, pastors taking sabbatical is not normal.

295
00:26:45.710 --> 00:26:46.631
But it should be.

296
00:26:47.891 --> 00:26:52.974
And I have to say, my daughters who were 12, they were young.

297
00:26:53.134 --> 00:26:54.974
I'm trying to think of how old the girls were.

298
00:26:55.295 --> 00:26:59.637
But I'll never forget them saying to me, they actually like my dad.

299
00:26:59.677 --> 00:27:00.497
They love him.

300
00:27:00.577 --> 00:27:01.998
They don't want to just use him.

301
00:27:02.825 --> 00:27:04.546
Because they're giving him this break.

302
00:27:05.166 --> 00:27:06.287
I was like, wow.

303
00:27:07.207 --> 00:27:12.290
And so, you know, people wonder why PKs don't necessarily like ministry.

304
00:27:12.430 --> 00:27:17.172
If it's sucking everything out of their parents, then I could see why.

305
00:27:17.592 --> 00:27:26.737
But to see them, the church support a sabbatical for a pastor, it really does show love and care.

306
00:27:27.697 --> 00:27:28.798
And you become...

307
00:27:29.578 --> 00:27:30.060
What is it?

308
00:27:30.481 --> 00:27:33.089
It's like he was no longer a product.

309
00:27:33.129 --> 00:27:34.032
He was a person.

310
00:27:36.070 --> 00:27:38.591
That made a huge, huge difference.

311
00:27:38.992 --> 00:27:43.834
So that and then church programming, I think, could change.

312
00:27:44.794 --> 00:27:53.878
Our church takes a sabbatical month in the summer where the ministries take a break so that you're not burning out people who are serving.

313
00:27:53.918 --> 00:28:01.402
Because a lot of the times the volunteers at the church are constantly working and giving as well as the staff.

314
00:28:01.782 --> 00:28:10.466
So having some downtime where you say, go rest, go spend time with your families, do what you need to do in order to pour into your own life.

315
00:28:11.306 --> 00:28:16.628
I think that has value to be able to see people support taking a break.

316
00:28:16.708 --> 00:28:26.652
And on my leadership team, at the end of every year in December, I say to my leaders, hey, do you want to rotate off and take three months off, six months off, a year off?

317
00:28:27.092 --> 00:28:28.633
So we always work in pairs.

318
00:28:28.873 --> 00:28:31.717
so that somebody knows how to do what they've been doing.

319
00:28:32.037 --> 00:28:38.205
So if you need to take a break, you're dealing with a parent that's aging and you do need to take a break.

320
00:28:38.386 --> 00:28:43.833
Or if you're dealing with a husband who's got some health challenges and you're like, I need to rotate off for a while.

321
00:28:44.273 --> 00:28:47.474
I don't want to disappear, but I just need less responsibility.

322
00:28:47.734 --> 00:28:49.454
But we don't ask those questions.

323
00:28:49.794 --> 00:28:56.876
We just expect people to show up and we're not listening and paying attention to what's going on in their lives.

324
00:28:57.256 --> 00:29:00.437
And that's why you can't just keep doing tasks.

325
00:29:00.457 --> 00:29:03.738
You really do have to have conversations about how people are doing.

326
00:29:07.258 --> 00:29:09.940
I have so many follow-up questions to what you just said.

327
00:29:10.020 --> 00:29:12.782
You're just dropping so much wisdom.

328
00:29:13.042 --> 00:29:15.123
Okay, so you mentioned accountability partner.

329
00:29:15.143 --> 00:29:20.987
You know, I've heard a lot of pastors talk about the people they're accountable to or the person they're accountable to.

330
00:29:21.447 --> 00:29:25.370
Can you give some advice about how to choose an accountability partner?

331
00:29:26.030 --> 00:29:28.312
And then how do you set it up for success?

332
00:29:28.592 --> 00:29:31.974
Are you telling them, here's what you need to check on me, or are they doing it?

333
00:29:32.234 --> 00:29:33.335
How does all that work for you?

334
00:29:34.382 --> 00:29:35.083
Sure, sure.

335
00:29:35.323 --> 00:29:36.824
Okay.

336
00:29:36.844 --> 00:29:37.604
A lot of questions.

337
00:29:37.624 --> 00:29:38.945
Let me say one thing first.

338
00:29:39.446 --> 00:29:41.987
I think everybody needs three people in their lives.

339
00:29:42.267 --> 00:29:44.849
You need someone who is a mentor to you.

340
00:29:45.570 --> 00:29:47.651
You need somebody who's walking with you.

341
00:29:47.831 --> 00:29:49.733
And you need somebody you can pour into.

342
00:29:50.113 --> 00:29:51.634
Those three things are important.

343
00:29:52.314 --> 00:29:55.436
My accountability partner is somebody who's walking with me.

344
00:29:55.617 --> 00:29:59.319
So we're both growing in our relationship with Christ.

345
00:30:00.140 --> 00:30:02.581
I do have mentors as well.

346
00:30:04.242 --> 00:30:09.746
Those who pour wisdom into me, who I ask questions and who provide counsel.

347
00:30:10.247 --> 00:30:17.091
My accountability partner is a person who we decide what we're going to be accountable for.

348
00:30:17.372 --> 00:30:19.673
And we actually do this on a weekly basis.

349
00:30:19.833 --> 00:30:28.780
And I send her at the end of every day what things I was able to actually do that I said I would do and the things that have been left undone.

350
00:30:29.320 --> 00:30:31.322
And she will often pray for me.

351
00:30:32.223 --> 00:30:37.928
She'll say to me, this has been on your little list for like three weeks now.

352
00:30:38.389 --> 00:30:39.109
What's going on?

353
00:30:39.149 --> 00:30:40.331
Why are you avoiding this?

354
00:30:40.431 --> 00:30:41.852
Like, what is the issue here?

355
00:30:42.252 --> 00:30:45.736
So it's not just a list of tasks.

356
00:30:45.896 --> 00:30:50.901
Sometimes it's a health issue that I say, okay, I'm going to eat clean this week.

357
00:30:51.922 --> 00:30:53.804
And I'm going to be accountable for my eating.

358
00:30:54.706 --> 00:30:56.268
Sometimes it's spiritual.

359
00:30:56.408 --> 00:31:01.976
It's like I need to do an examine or I need to set up my spiritual direction time for me.

360
00:31:02.797 --> 00:31:05.060
So we agree upon what we're going to do.

361
00:31:05.961 --> 00:31:06.862
We set it out.

362
00:31:07.864 --> 00:31:18.276
And if there's something we want to process, because both of us are spiritual directors, we'll have a conversation that doesn't sound like your typical friend conversation.

363
00:31:19.217 --> 00:31:22.881
So it's not necessarily giving advice, but it's asking questions.

364
00:31:24.202 --> 00:31:31.606
and asking questions that draw us deeper into inquiring of the Lord as opposed to of each other.

365
00:31:31.926 --> 00:31:33.067
That's really helpful.

366
00:31:34.227 --> 00:31:36.788
This is going to sound like a silly question.

367
00:31:37.089 --> 00:31:38.769
How did you know to do all this?

368
00:31:38.869 --> 00:31:43.792
Like, who told you that this is how you should structure these important relationships?

369
00:31:44.012 --> 00:31:45.272
It is so full of wisdom.

370
00:31:45.352 --> 00:31:46.533
It is so sensible.

371
00:31:47.333 --> 00:31:50.315
Did someone give you this advice or did you just sort of figure it out?

372
00:31:50.335 --> 00:31:50.435
Yeah.

373
00:31:52.839 --> 00:31:53.399
Well, both.

374
00:31:53.719 --> 00:31:54.560
I think it's both.

375
00:31:54.780 --> 00:31:56.742
I think I figured out what worked for me.

376
00:31:57.262 --> 00:32:07.550
But I do think that going through the sacred slow with Alicia Cholet, who is my mentor, I did a year long mentoring program with her.

377
00:32:08.030 --> 00:32:13.294
And through that experience, it birthed me wanting to do that program with others.

378
00:32:13.975 --> 00:32:17.497
And it kind of shaped and changed how I lived my life.

379
00:32:19.079 --> 00:32:25.685
And being able to create accountability partners is something that kind of evolved out of that.

380
00:32:27.266 --> 00:32:36.094
So, of course, prayer partners, but the accountability walking with, I think that has come out of my spiritual direction training, being able to do.

381
00:32:37.175 --> 00:32:44.109
have someone else who kind of gets and thinks deeper and not just on the surface.

382
00:32:44.310 --> 00:32:48.318
Because you know you will have the girlfriend who will say to you, I don't know why you did that.

383
00:32:49.761 --> 00:32:53.183
As opposed to, what do you think God is inviting you to in that?

384
00:32:53.544 --> 00:32:56.866
It's a whole different question of asking.

385
00:32:57.626 --> 00:33:07.593
So, you know, having a mentor who suggested, you know, that I begin to be intentional about my spiritual growth.

386
00:33:07.793 --> 00:33:10.575
Because spiritual growth doesn't just happen.

387
00:33:10.655 --> 00:33:12.817
You really do have to be intentional.

388
00:33:13.237 --> 00:33:14.939
And I don't think I was intentional.

389
00:33:15.059 --> 00:33:16.940
I think I was doing all the things.

390
00:33:17.080 --> 00:33:17.901
I was serving.

391
00:33:18.001 --> 00:33:20.583
I was reading the Bible, memorizing scripture.

392
00:33:20.643 --> 00:33:26.348
And I was like, something is still missing because all of that was head knowledge and activity.

393
00:33:26.509 --> 00:33:28.110
It just wasn't changing my heart.

394
00:33:30.792 --> 00:33:31.473
I love that.

395
00:33:32.671 --> 00:33:33.091
Wisdom.

396
00:33:33.171 --> 00:33:34.713
I'm hearing wisdom here, Rev.

397
00:33:34.793 --> 00:33:34.973
EJ.

398
00:33:35.293 --> 00:33:36.234
I don't know about you.

399
00:33:36.454 --> 00:33:39.476
One more follow-up question from the answer that you gave.

400
00:33:39.836 --> 00:33:43.659
You said something about summer sabbatical for your team.

401
00:33:44.040 --> 00:33:48.363
I think you said, you know, every summer you let your team take a month off.

402
00:33:50.384 --> 00:33:51.705
What happens to the church?

403
00:33:51.985 --> 00:33:56.149
Like, is this where the pairs come into play, where, like, someone else is taking over the duties?

404
00:33:56.349 --> 00:33:58.170
Or, like, does the church take a month off?

405
00:33:59.431 --> 00:34:00.632
The church takes a month off.

406
00:34:02.675 --> 00:34:03.655
I know.

407
00:34:03.875 --> 00:34:05.476
That is the most staggering thing.

408
00:34:06.376 --> 00:34:08.097
You can just drop the mic right there.

409
00:34:08.137 --> 00:34:08.517
Yeah.

410
00:34:08.717 --> 00:34:10.278
No, no committee meetings.

411
00:34:10.378 --> 00:34:13.099
No, no, no Sunday school.

412
00:34:13.219 --> 00:34:17.800
No, just for one month, everybody takes a break.

413
00:34:18.000 --> 00:34:25.723
When I do it on my leadership team, at the end of the year, I do calls with each person that's on the team.

414
00:34:26.123 --> 00:34:31.665
And I ask the question, do you have everything you need to be successful in the role that you're in?

415
00:34:32.265 --> 00:34:37.146
Two, are you happy in this role or do you feel like it's a good fit for you?

416
00:34:37.446 --> 00:34:43.968
Because sometimes we put people in places according to what they do professionally, but that's not their spiritual calling.

417
00:34:44.528 --> 00:34:52.890
And there's sometimes shifts that happen where it's like, yeah, I'm in this role, but I really want to try something else.

418
00:34:53.290 --> 00:34:56.211
Because sometimes it's that idea of the wrong seat on the bus.

419
00:34:56.491 --> 00:35:00.372
And so we try to throw people off the bus rather than putting them in the right seat.

420
00:35:00.412 --> 00:35:00.952
Yeah.

421
00:35:01.352 --> 00:35:04.933
And then I asked the question of, are you ready for a break?

422
00:35:05.013 --> 00:35:06.933
Do you need a break?

423
00:35:07.374 --> 00:35:13.075
Because then it's caring about the person and not just what they're producing.

424
00:35:13.395 --> 00:35:19.796
And I think that's counterculture because we've been so programmed to produce, produce, produce, produce.

425
00:35:20.117 --> 00:35:21.477
You know, what are you doing?

426
00:35:21.737 --> 00:35:23.037
How busy are you?

427
00:35:23.157 --> 00:35:25.958
When really Jesus did not function that way.

428
00:35:26.158 --> 00:35:27.659
He never rushed anywhere.

429
00:35:27.719 --> 00:35:29.260
He never hurried anywhere.

430
00:35:30.420 --> 00:35:32.761
He had a posse, Peter, James, and John.

431
00:35:33.101 --> 00:35:35.963
I mean, all of these things are part of Scripture.

432
00:35:36.963 --> 00:35:41.185
He said, come away with me to a quiet place and get some rest.

433
00:35:41.665 --> 00:35:44.167
So it wasn't like 24-7.

434
00:35:44.567 --> 00:35:47.928
When they said, come on, let's go to this, he's like, no, we're leaving.

435
00:35:47.968 --> 00:35:48.589
We're done here.

436
00:35:49.589 --> 00:35:50.391
It's time to go.

437
00:35:50.752 --> 00:35:59.248
So it's really attending to what scriptures say and paying attention to what our bodies are saying as well.

438
00:36:01.005 --> 00:36:09.111
I think you just gave our listeners permission to take time off, and that is so important.

439
00:36:09.552 --> 00:36:10.853
Thank you for sharing that.

440
00:36:12.214 --> 00:36:18.578
Okay, so now I want to get into your current ministry, your passion, Deep Roots Soul Care.

441
00:36:18.658 --> 00:36:19.859
I love that name.

442
00:36:20.960 --> 00:36:23.002
How did you come to this ministry?

443
00:36:23.082 --> 00:36:26.664
What was God showing you and telling you to address with it?

444
00:36:27.525 --> 00:36:28.126
Yeah, yeah.

445
00:36:28.786 --> 00:36:38.394
When I finished the year-long sabbatical, well, year-long mentoring program with Alicia Sholay in the Sacred Slow, she pushed me.

446
00:36:38.795 --> 00:36:43.398
She was like, this really is something that you're passionate about.

447
00:36:43.459 --> 00:36:49.223
Have you thought about pouring into others by doing this mentoring program with other women?

448
00:36:49.624 --> 00:36:50.865
And I was like, mm-hmm.

449
00:36:51.819 --> 00:36:52.859
I'm not quite so sure.

450
00:36:52.959 --> 00:36:57.521
So I did an apprenticeship for that first year where she kind of walked with me.

451
00:36:57.961 --> 00:37:04.103
And all of this was before she actually published the book, The Sacred Slow, which is what we use as a curriculum.

452
00:37:05.163 --> 00:37:07.704
And so during that time of apprenticeship, I.

453
00:37:08.504 --> 00:37:09.945
It was my sweet spot.

454
00:37:10.145 --> 00:37:20.570
I was like, Lord, I absolutely love being in this space, seeing how you are making a difference in the lives of other women and with me.

455
00:37:20.811 --> 00:37:24.553
And this is not your typical mentoring because I'm growing as they're growing.

456
00:37:24.593 --> 00:37:26.614
It's not like they're coming to me for answers.

457
00:37:26.934 --> 00:37:28.895
We're both seeking the Lord for answers.

458
00:37:29.455 --> 00:37:32.456
And it just became something that grew.

459
00:37:32.536 --> 00:37:34.637
So I started the next year.

460
00:37:34.677 --> 00:37:36.358
She says, the book is published.

461
00:37:36.378 --> 00:37:39.820
You don't need me to be an apprentice under me.

462
00:37:40.040 --> 00:37:41.780
Anybody can pick up this book and do it.

463
00:37:42.201 --> 00:37:43.441
So I said, sure.

464
00:37:43.761 --> 00:37:45.802
And I began to take groups through.

465
00:37:45.902 --> 00:37:47.063
And it's been what?

466
00:37:48.403 --> 00:37:57.914
13, 13 years, maybe, since I've been taking groups through the Sacred Slow, a small cohort of women, seven max.

467
00:37:58.235 --> 00:38:04.001
Right now I have six that are in the Sacred Slow going through together.

468
00:38:04.061 --> 00:38:05.282
We meet once a month.

469
00:38:06.844 --> 00:38:19.312
as individually and we meet once a month as a group because I do believe so many things happen in cohorts because too often the enemy wants us to think we're the only one going through something.

470
00:38:19.752 --> 00:38:20.452
And we're not.

471
00:38:20.993 --> 00:38:27.217
So having the cohort model has been just so fruitful, very, very fruitful.

472
00:38:27.477 --> 00:38:28.137
And I love it.

473
00:38:28.798 --> 00:38:29.298
I love it.

474
00:38:30.519 --> 00:38:30.939
Amen.

475
00:38:31.299 --> 00:38:33.201
So, you know, I remember...

476
00:38:34.387 --> 00:38:40.950
Three years ago now, when you came up and said, look, I got this little practice I've got going on.

477
00:38:40.970 --> 00:38:43.331
It's spiritual direction, caring for souls.

478
00:38:43.372 --> 00:38:45.893
And I'm going to make it a business, you know.

479
00:38:46.293 --> 00:38:47.213
Would you help me?

480
00:38:47.834 --> 00:38:49.375
And I was like, sure, why not?

481
00:38:49.795 --> 00:38:57.198
But then as I'm listening to you, I want to say that this is not your business, but God's business.

482
00:38:57.419 --> 00:38:59.920
And it's always going to be your ministry.

483
00:39:00.782 --> 00:39:04.563
So this is God's business, always going to be your ministry.

484
00:39:05.183 --> 00:39:13.725
And I'm glad I heard you say all that because you know me, I'm business, too wound up business guy, Randy, working on it.

485
00:39:14.345 --> 00:39:20.707
But it's allowing me, as I care for my soul, right?

486
00:39:21.648 --> 00:39:31.126
And working alongside you helps me to better get appreciation for the ministry, right?

487
00:39:31.909 --> 00:39:36.531
And to take away the pressure I feel on helping you grow the business.

488
00:39:37.011 --> 00:39:40.472
Because if I serve in the ministry, God will grow his business.

489
00:39:40.832 --> 00:39:41.352
Yes.

490
00:39:41.812 --> 00:39:42.333
Okay.

491
00:39:42.513 --> 00:39:44.233
I had to throw that out there because it hit me.

492
00:39:44.253 --> 00:39:45.774
I was listening to you, right?

493
00:39:46.434 --> 00:39:55.517
But, you know, so when you often talk about contemplative practices, slowing down,

494
00:39:56.594 --> 00:40:02.497
I'm slowing down enough to be with God and not just busy for God.

495
00:40:02.557 --> 00:40:05.739
Now, I have an acronym for the word busy.

496
00:40:05.799 --> 00:40:08.941
I call it buried under Satan's yoke.

497
00:40:09.001 --> 00:40:12.603
I'd like to be more involved with God, involved for God.

498
00:40:12.643 --> 00:40:15.184
So I'm going to drop that busy word, okay?

499
00:40:15.765 --> 00:40:23.449
But why do you think that there's such a difficult invitation for ministry leaders to accept that?

500
00:40:24.699 --> 00:40:25.039
Yeah.

501
00:40:25.419 --> 00:40:27.500
It's like a holdup.

502
00:40:27.520 --> 00:40:27.760
Yeah.

503
00:40:28.640 --> 00:40:29.821
I think it's identity.

504
00:40:30.841 --> 00:40:33.882
I think that's the root of all of it.

505
00:40:34.102 --> 00:40:40.364
I think that, you know, we often define ourselves by what we do.

506
00:40:40.724 --> 00:40:47.587
I think what I dread the most is when you meet new people and the first thing they say to you is, what do you do?

507
00:40:48.387 --> 00:40:49.748
Well, that's not who you are.

508
00:40:50.148 --> 00:40:52.449
That may be what you do for a living.

509
00:40:52.509 --> 00:40:57.710
It may be what you do because you need a job, but it's not who you are.

510
00:40:58.151 --> 00:41:07.374
And I think it's hard for people to separate out that God loves us unconditionally, that we don't need to do anything to earn God's love.

511
00:41:07.714 --> 00:41:15.117
And I think this is a problem because we say to ourselves that it's not by works, and yet we make it about works.

512
00:41:15.717 --> 00:41:21.038
in order to feel like we're doing something for God and we're not working with God.

513
00:41:21.098 --> 00:41:33.441
And I think, Alicia, this is what we talked about before, is that pressure of feeling like for ministry that I got to do these things for the Lord, that He needs it and I need to be able to serve Him better.

514
00:41:34.261 --> 00:41:40.482
And yes, I do, but my serving is out of an overflow of my love and worship for Him.

515
00:41:46.743 --> 00:41:50.725
So, you know, we're approval addicts who define ourselves by what we do.

516
00:41:50.805 --> 00:41:55.726
And as a result, it's hard for us to realize that it's God's work.

517
00:41:56.006 --> 00:41:56.967
It's His church.

518
00:41:57.467 --> 00:42:01.608
We saw through COVID, He didn't let His church fall apart through COVID.

519
00:42:02.008 --> 00:42:06.330
Yeah, we were falling apart in some ways, but the church was totally fine.

520
00:42:06.770 --> 00:42:08.152
He did what he needed to do.

521
00:42:08.232 --> 00:42:15.939
When my husband took a whole year of sabbatical, it's evident that it is God's church because he took care of his church.

522
00:42:16.360 --> 00:42:21.945
And I think too often we want to do these things for, but we're not working with him.

523
00:42:22.486 --> 00:42:24.067
That it's a co-laboring.

524
00:42:24.247 --> 00:42:28.131
It's him carrying the heavy end of the sofa up the stairs.

525
00:42:29.052 --> 00:42:32.833
You know, it's not us having to feel the burden of that.

526
00:42:33.273 --> 00:42:46.956
And when things don't happen, when we think they should, then it's an opportunity to trust that God either has something better or his timing is not right yet, as opposed to trying to force things to work the way we think they need to work.

527
00:42:47.416 --> 00:42:58.499
And that is what faith is, is being comfortable in the tension of the unknown and trusting that God's timing and his wisdom and his way is better than our own.

528
00:42:59.159 --> 00:43:04.623
So, you know, I hope I've answered your question about this slowing down.

529
00:43:05.863 --> 00:43:09.806
You know, we live in a frenetic society where everybody wants to do everything fast.

530
00:43:09.846 --> 00:43:10.966
We have drive-thrus.

531
00:43:11.006 --> 00:43:13.108
We have, you know, telemachines.

532
00:43:13.148 --> 00:43:18.071
We have microwaves that everything is supposed to be fast, fast, fast.

533
00:43:18.111 --> 00:43:26.036
But if you take the slow road, you notice a lot more things in the countryside than the highway speed.

534
00:43:26.056 --> 00:43:26.156
Yeah.

535
00:43:27.085 --> 00:43:27.646
Amen.

536
00:43:28.527 --> 00:43:30.911
I call it moving at the face of God's grace.

537
00:43:31.391 --> 00:43:32.513
Right?

538
00:43:32.753 --> 00:43:33.254
Yes.

539
00:43:35.417 --> 00:43:35.878
Yes.

540
00:43:36.699 --> 00:43:39.063
Trust in the slow work of God.

541
00:43:39.664 --> 00:43:40.184
Amen.

542
00:43:41.026 --> 00:43:41.446
Amen.

543
00:43:42.898 --> 00:43:51.863
Well, so we talked about these cohorts that you're leading, these women, and oftentimes they're in positions of leadership.

544
00:43:53.384 --> 00:43:54.584
Tell us more about that.

545
00:43:54.644 --> 00:43:59.787
What excites you about this generation of women that God has put in leadership?

546
00:44:00.087 --> 00:44:01.748
Like, where do you see their greatest need?

547
00:44:01.768 --> 00:44:01.868
Yeah.

548
00:44:03.164 --> 00:44:03.684
Oh, wow.

549
00:44:04.805 --> 00:44:19.890
I think spiritual direction, a contemplative focus of rhythms of work and rest, understanding that their identity is in Christ and that He is lavishing His love on them and that

550
00:44:20.410 --> 00:44:26.152
They are his daughters in whom he is well pleased apart from achieving something.

551
00:44:27.412 --> 00:44:46.579
I'm excited because I think as people begin to be a part of Deeper Roots Soul Care and see over this year process or through their spiritual direction or through retreats, that there is more to be gained in going deeper than broader.

552
00:44:47.668 --> 00:44:53.469
That trying to learn and acquire a whole lot of knowledge is great.

553
00:44:54.390 --> 00:45:04.312
But if there's not application and attentiveness and awareness of what God is doing, then we really miss out on what God is trying to say.

554
00:45:04.752 --> 00:45:17.015
I think he has everyday what I would call parables for us, you know, lessons to learn from everyday experiences that we're so busy rushing to the next thing that we miss.

555
00:45:17.755 --> 00:45:21.838
You know, it's like, what was the interruption about today?

556
00:45:22.158 --> 00:45:25.721
It's like this I had planned and all of a sudden now I got to stop and I got to do this.

557
00:45:26.101 --> 00:45:31.185
There's lessons in our interruptions that he wants us to see.

558
00:45:31.225 --> 00:45:37.189
But if we don't take time to pay attention to them or to attend to them, we really miss it.

559
00:45:37.649 --> 00:45:44.014
And so the women who have been leading begin to lead in a different way.

560
00:45:44.114 --> 00:45:45.194
There's not this...

561
00:45:46.275 --> 00:45:56.198
achievement and goal focus to achieve a certain thing, but it's to become a certain thing, not do a certain thing.

562
00:45:56.898 --> 00:45:57.398
Amen.

563
00:45:59.279 --> 00:46:03.220
It's good.

564
00:46:03.240 --> 00:46:15.144
So if you could sit down with everyone that's in ministry, who's listening today to this podcast,

565
00:46:16.352 --> 00:46:34.270
Whether she's a pastor, some form of ministry leader, someone like yourself, a pastor's wife, or just someone just simply trying to discern God's call, what would you want them to know?

566
00:46:36.425 --> 00:46:46.694
I would say that you have been created for such a time as this, that in this time that we're living in, use your agency.

567
00:46:46.754 --> 00:46:53.600
God has given you the ability to steward well this season of your life, whatever that season is.

568
00:46:54.861 --> 00:46:58.425
And if you could match what your heart is,

569
00:46:59.252 --> 00:47:06.577
is passionate about, with what you're actually doing, it would be amazing to see the difference.

570
00:47:07.158 --> 00:47:17.205
That if all of the things that we value, we actually are spending time focused on allowing God to work in those spaces, things would change.

571
00:47:18.366 --> 00:47:22.649
I think for women in particular, knowing that you are enough.

572
00:47:23.329 --> 00:47:26.552
that there's not all this extra stuff that we need.

573
00:47:26.892 --> 00:47:28.414
We think we need more money.

574
00:47:28.434 --> 00:47:30.916
We think we need more time.

575
00:47:30.936 --> 00:47:33.498
We think we need more, more, more, more.

576
00:47:33.839 --> 00:47:36.921
But really, God is more than enough.

577
00:47:37.662 --> 00:47:47.211
And He has given us everything we need right now to be the best person that we can be in this season because He knows what we're becoming now.

578
00:47:48.537 --> 00:47:50.358
And this is part of that process.

579
00:47:50.538 --> 00:47:51.879
We never get there.

580
00:47:52.800 --> 00:47:54.361
Hello, we never get there.

581
00:47:54.421 --> 00:47:56.102
Everybody thinks I'm going to get there.

582
00:47:56.122 --> 00:47:56.722
No.

583
00:47:57.222 --> 00:47:59.003
And that's the great thing about the Lord.

584
00:47:59.144 --> 00:48:02.506
We never get to knowing everything there is about Him.

585
00:48:02.546 --> 00:48:04.907
There's always more to learn about Him.

586
00:48:06.468 --> 00:48:15.934
So your ability to relax and be okay with where you are and not feel like you're missing something is what I would say.

587
00:48:17.435 --> 00:48:17.595
Hmm.

588
00:48:18.473 --> 00:48:19.174
That's wonderful.

589
00:48:20.034 --> 00:48:21.675
That's wonderful.

590
00:48:22.136 --> 00:48:25.718
Dr. Kim, this has been such an amazing conversation.

591
00:48:25.798 --> 00:48:38.927
It has been, for me, a masterclass in spiritual direction, in structuring your life to be listening to what God has for you.

592
00:48:39.968 --> 00:48:45.272
It's been a masterclass in identity, especially as a woman in leadership.

593
00:48:45.292 --> 00:48:45.412
Yeah.

594
00:48:46.012 --> 00:48:47.734
And this has been just wonderful.

595
00:48:47.774 --> 00:48:52.699
You have such a unique voice and such a unique heart for women.

596
00:48:53.080 --> 00:49:00.027
And I have no doubt the Lord is going to use you and continue to use you in just amazing and powerful ways.

597
00:49:00.067 --> 00:49:02.469
Thank you for sharing some of that wisdom with us today.

598
00:49:02.589 --> 00:49:06.213
Really, I feel so blessed and so grateful to you.

599
00:49:07.447 --> 00:49:08.729
Yes, I concur.

600
00:49:09.010 --> 00:49:10.131
I concur.

601
00:49:10.913 --> 00:49:19.686
You know, hearing her voice and hearing in this context just, wow, just brings joy.

602
00:49:21.302 --> 00:49:22.523
Joy to my heart.

603
00:49:22.663 --> 00:49:30.728
I just want to thank you, Lady Kim, for taking the time to join Lisa and I with this faithfully venture, being a part of it.

604
00:49:31.208 --> 00:49:31.428
Right.

605
00:49:31.468 --> 00:49:34.690
Because as this thing continues to unfold.

606
00:49:34.991 --> 00:49:35.311
Right.

607
00:49:35.971 --> 00:49:41.174
And we we serve in our service to God's will, God's vision.

608
00:49:41.815 --> 00:49:45.957
You know, you just added an exemplary point to our mission.

609
00:49:46.037 --> 00:49:46.938
And I want to thank you.

610
00:49:47.931 --> 00:49:51.273
Yes, it does not yet appear what you shall be, Alicia.

611
00:49:51.313 --> 00:49:53.635
God has great things in store for you with Faithly.

612
00:49:54.055 --> 00:49:55.416
You know, that's right.

613
00:49:56.176 --> 00:49:57.978
I received that word from you, Lady Kim.

614
00:49:58.078 --> 00:49:59.779
Dr. Kim, thank you so much.

615
00:49:59.819 --> 00:50:01.920
And thank you to my co-host, Rev EJ.

616
00:50:01.980 --> 00:50:04.302
It's been another amazing conversation with you.

617
00:50:05.082 --> 00:50:05.523
Thank you.