Why Teenagers Are Your Church's Greatest Evangelists - Greg Stier | Faithly Podcast

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When you write a memoir, you have to help your reader smell what you smelled, see what you saw, feel what you felt.

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And I had to re-feel.

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I did not realize how traumatizing my childhood was.

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This is the Faithly Podcast.

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Welcome back to the Faithly Podcast.

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I'm Alicia Lee, and I'm super excited to be joined by my guest today, Greg Steer.

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Greg is the founder of Dare to Share Ministries.

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It is focused on a simple vision, which is every teen, everywhere, hearing the gospel from a friend.

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Greg's own story is just as compelling.

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He grew up in an inner-city family and experienced firsthand the transforming power of the gospel.

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And so today we'll talk about his journey.

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We'll talk about the founding of Dare to Share.

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And really what I hope to learn from Greg is one of the church's biggest questions, which is,

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How do we help ordinary Christians become confident ambassadors for Christ?

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So with that, Greg, welcome to the podcast.

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Alicia, glad to be a part of it.

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It's exciting.

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Thank you.

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Thank you.

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So for those meeting you for the first time, Greg, tell us a little bit about your story.

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I know you often describe yourself as growing up in a violent family in Denver.

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Tell me about your childhood.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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I mean, you don't think of high crime rate areas like in Denver, but every city's got a city within the city.

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And I was raised in the city, the highest crime rate area of Denver, which was North Denver at the time.

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And it was Mexican mafia and Italian mafia.

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And my family lived right in the middle of my family was, you know, three of my uncles are competitive bodybuilders.

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The fourth one was a bouncer at the toughest bar in the city.

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You know, six, three, two fifty big boy.

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The fifth one was a Golden Gloves boxer, judo champion, and war hero.

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And my ma, she was the only sister in the whole group.

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And all my uncles were afraid of her because she fought dirty.

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She used a baseball bat.

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And she was really strong physically.

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And so I had this very violent, intense family.

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on me, I was like young Sheldon.

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I carried the dictionary.

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I was like a nerdy little, I was like, how did I get in this family?

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You know?

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And, uh, very violent, very scary.

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I used to hide from my own family all the time behind the couch, underneath the kitchen sink.

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Uh, there's a lot of violence in our neighborhood, in our house, just violence and a lot of rage.

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My family was just ticked and they just wanted to fight.

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And, um,

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The Denver Mafia, the Small Dones, nicknamed my uncles the Crazy Brothers.

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So when the Mafia thinks your family's dysfunctional, that's not good.

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It's easy to chuckle about it now, but I mean, I can hear the intensity in it.

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I make jokes about it now, but it was not funny then.

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I was a terrified, quiet kid.

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And a hillbilly preacher, nicknamed Yankee,

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Went to my Uncle Jack's house.

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My Uncle Jack, the toughest guy I've ever met in my life.

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Looks like the Wolverine.

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Looks actually like a beefed up version of the Wolverine.

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Had a big lamb chop sideburns, tattoos everywhere.

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Answers the door when Yankee, the seal belly preacher, knocks on his door.

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No shirt on, two beer cans, one for drinking beer, one for spitting shoe.

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And he goes, what do you want?

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And Yankee said, I'm here on a dare from Bob Daly to tell you about Jesus.

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And Bob knew my Uncle Jack and went to Yankee's church, but Bob was too afraid to share the gospel with my Uncle Jack.

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And he goes, well, I don't know Jesus.

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I know Bob.

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I'll give you five minutes.

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And invited him in.

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And Yankee explained the gospel, not religion, but a relationship that Christ died in our place for our sins on the cross, that he was buried, that he rose from the dead.

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And everyone who simply places their faith in him to save them will have eternal life.

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And my Uncle Jack always thought going to heaven was by being good.

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He knew he wasn't good.

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So he figured, hey, I'm going to hell.

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Let's have a good time before I get there.

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And he heard for the first time the grace of God towards sinners through Jesus Christ.

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And Yankee said, does that make sense?

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And my Uncle Jack goes, hell yeah.

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That was a sinner's prayer was hell yeah.

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He trusted in Christ and...

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You know, those things you remember as a kid.

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You know, I remember the toughest guy I've ever met all of a sudden becoming this street fighter to a street preacher like overnight.

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He brought 250 people out to Yankees Church in one month.

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That's not an exaggeration.

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250 gang members and power lifters and bodybuilders and...

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You know, it was messy.

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Sometimes he would forcibly encourage people to come into the kingdom of God at first.

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Didn't know the rules yet about loving your enemies.

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Beat up a guy in a sauna who was trying to, you know, that was his apologetic initially.

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A guy was arguing with him, so he took him out.

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And the guy said, Jesus didn't go around hitting people like that.

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He goes, well, I ain't Jesus.

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I'm Jack.

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Didn't know the rules yet, you know, but he got discipled and he grew up.

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My Uncle Bob came to Christ on the back of a squat car.

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My whole family ended up just radical.

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I wrote a book on it called Unlikely Fighter that tells the whole story.

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And it's 22 chapters.

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The first 21 happened before I turned 16.

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And it's a crazy story that actually may be being made into a movie.

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So we'll see about that.

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But it's all true.

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Like, it's not.

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I did not exaggerate.

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If anything, I had to leave some stories out for liability reasons.

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You know, but man, the gospel changed everything.

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And for me as a kid, you know, here on the gospel, I never knew my biological father.

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My mom met my biological dad at a party and they partied and she got pregnant and he found out he got transferred.

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And so I never seen his face, never heard his voice.

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And, but when I came to Christ, you know, I found my father, my heavenly father and would never leave me or forsake me.

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And so,

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My whole family gets radically transformed.

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I get saved.

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My ma still is one of the holdouts.

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And so she never thought God could forgive her because she was a partier and a fighter.

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And she had a lot of shame in her past.

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And I was one of those, you know, reasons for her shame.

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She actually drove from Denver to Boston having a legal abortion when she found out she was pregnant with me.

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And my uncle Tommy talked her out of.

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But when she would look at me, she would just cry because she felt so guilty for almost aborting me.

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And she never knew to the day that she died that I knew that she almost supported me.

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But my grandma told me everything.

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So from the time I was 12, I started sharing the gospel with her because Yankee trained me how to share the gospel, trained us in the youth group.

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And Ma took three years and finally smoking a cigarette.

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She goes, you mean to tell me all I got to do is put my faith in Christ and he forgives me for everything?

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Yeah, he paid the price on the cross.

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She took another drag and then she goes, I'm in.

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And when my family said they're in, they're in, they're in.

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So, yeah, it was just, you know, the power of the gospel changed everything in my family.

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And that's why I'm convinced, you know, there's a lot of good programs out there, a lot of good causes.

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But Henry David Thoreau said, for every thousand hacking at the leaves of evil, one strikes at the root.

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So only the gospel can strike at the root of evil.

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Yes.

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Yes.

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Wow.

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What a story.

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Well, it's clear the hand of God has been on your family, has been on you.

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I'm curious, what was that first moment when the gospel became real to you?

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I'm envisioning you sort of like with your ear to the door when Yankee's talking to Uncle Jack, like listening in and hearing the gospel.

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Like, was that the moment?

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Yeah, I mean, that would be great if that was the case.

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My story is actually a little less crazy because my grandparents were Baptists.

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And, you know, they had all these rebellious kids that had rebelled against everything and were living this crazy life and turning their back on God.

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But they took me and my brothers to Bethany Baptist Church, and I wanted to understand the gospel.

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But they kept using phrases like, let Jesus in your heart.

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I'm like, what does that even mean?

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I was like, if I get a heart transplant, is he going to go with it?

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If I cough too hard, is Jesus going to come flying out?

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I mean, I'm a neurotic OCD literal kid.

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And finally, the pastor said, hey, to be a Christian means you believe Jesus died for you on the cross and he rose from the dead and you trust in him to save you from your sins.

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And that clicked.

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So it was, you know, I was eight.

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I was eight.

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Eight.

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Wow.

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Yeah, yeah.

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Wow.

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My son is eight.

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Yeah.

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I love that.

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Your son, you know, they're never, listen, as soon as they can start processing, they can hear the gospel and in God's time respond to it, but give it clear, clear, clear.

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The terms we use matter.

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Like they did.

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One of the Sunday school teachers used to say, confess all your sins and they'll be saved.

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Well, I thought if I missed one, I was going straight to hell.

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Yeah.

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You know, so I would confess all my sins and then I would drop the F bomb in my mind.

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I'm like, oh, I confess that.

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Well, you know, again, neurotic little OCD, young Sheldon type of kid, but.

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The clarity of the gospel matters.

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Christ died, was buried, rose from the dead.

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He died in our place for our sins.

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And we transfer our trust from our own good deeds to what he did on the cross.

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And in that moment, we're saved.

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Our sins are forgiven.

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And we're given eternal life.

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Amen.

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So when you were eight and Christ became real to you, what did you think you would do when you grew up?

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Did you imagine that you'd be serving the Lord your entire life?

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I mean, I definitely wanted to serve the Lord.

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I didn't know what God was calling me to, but around the age of like 11 or 12, I started getting the hint that it was going to be ministry.

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And then my grandpa died when I was 15.

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Yeah.

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And my uncles approached me in the waiting room of the hospital and they said, you're going to give the gospel and give the sermon at dad's funeral.

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And I'm like, well, I'm 15.

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I'm 15.

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And they're like, well, we're not asking you.

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we see that you're called to preach.

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And, you know, one of my uncles goes, you chicken?

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I'm like, nope, we're going to do it.

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So I preached to 500 people at my grandpa's funeral, gave an invitation.

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Many put their faith in Christ, and I felt the weight of that moment.

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Like, this is what I'm called to do, preach the gospel.

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And later on, it became clear not just preach the gospel, but train others to share the gospel.

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Wow.

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Okay, so let's talk about Dare to Share.

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You founded it in 1991.

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What led to you starting Dare to Share?

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Well, I got to give credit to Yankee.

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So, you know, here's this hillbilly preacher who, you know, reached my family for Christ, much of my family.

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And I got involved with his youth group in middle school.

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And he believed that the fastest way to reach a city for Christ was not through the adults, through the young.

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You say, teens come to Christ quicker, spread the gospel faster.

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We're going to focus on them.

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So at one point, he had 300 adults in his church and 800 teenagers in the youth ministry, 800.

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800.

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People were coming to church without their parents, right?

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Like, is that... People were just... Yeah, it was...

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He only started the church so that he could fund a youth ministry.

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I mean, like, it was kind of backward, but for us as teens, it was awesome.

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Like...

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And the adults loved it too because all these young people were coming to Christ.

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And so he trained us and equipped us to share the gospel, to preach, to exegete God's Word.

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We would go out every Friday night sharing the gospel.

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We were expected to reach our friends.

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We were making a multiply of disciples.

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We didn't know any better.

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He's like, you can do this.

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You don't need to wait until you're adults.

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And you start doing a study of Scripture, you're not going to do this.

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Matthew 17, 24 through 27, Peter, Jesus, and the disciples go on to Capernaum, but only Peter and Jesus pay the temple tax, which is interesting.

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To cross-revisit with Exodus 30, verse 14, the temple tax was only for those 20 years old and older.

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So if I'm reading that right, all the disciples are there, but only Peter and Jesus pay.

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That means Jesus was a youth leader with one adult volunteer, one really rotten kid named Judas, no budget,

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And with that youth group, he changed the world.

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So the New Testament is based on a youth ministry on fire for Christ.

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That's amazing.

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I've never heard that before.

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Yeah, I remember I was preaching in, I think it was Nova Scotia at a Billy Graham School of Evangelism, an old black pastor on the front row.

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I was talking about youth ministry.

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He goes, you know, Jesus was a youth leader.

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I'm like, really?

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And then he shared that.

230
00:13:33.323 --> 00:13:34.163
I'm like, oh, my goodness.

231
00:13:34.203 --> 00:13:34.764
I wish I knew it.

232
00:13:34.904 --> 00:13:37.105
I wish I could remember this guy's name to give him the credit.

233
00:13:37.145 --> 00:13:39.927
But, yeah, that blew my mind.

234
00:13:40.227 --> 00:13:42.149
And so I got equipped.

235
00:13:43.089 --> 00:13:45.311
I saw what teenagers could do to a city.

236
00:13:46.318 --> 00:13:50.385
And I thought, wow, what if teenagers could do that to the world?

237
00:13:51.166 --> 00:13:51.466
Yeah.

238
00:13:52.007 --> 00:13:58.538
If one youth group can make that much difference in one city, what could a million youth groups do?

239
00:14:00.027 --> 00:14:02.469
And so, at Dare to Share, I started in 1991.

240
00:14:02.809 --> 00:14:06.673
First of all, US-based, doing big arena events all over the nation.

241
00:14:07.393 --> 00:14:10.476
And then 11 years ago, God moved us to go global.

242
00:14:10.716 --> 00:14:13.839
So, train, equip, and mobilize teens all over the world.

243
00:14:13.879 --> 00:14:15.921
We inspire them, we train them.

244
00:14:16.141 --> 00:14:16.741
What do you say?

245
00:14:16.802 --> 00:14:19.063
How do you bring the gospel up naturally, right?

246
00:14:20.024 --> 00:14:23.027
Not just at an event, but throughout your life, right?

247
00:14:23.347 --> 00:14:26.070
Every day, not just go on witness, but witness as you go.

248
00:14:27.081 --> 00:14:31.143
And then how do you disciple those new believers that come to Christ?

249
00:14:31.203 --> 00:14:34.364
And so we really, I'm taking what Yankee taught me to do as a teen.

250
00:14:34.624 --> 00:14:35.244
Yeah, yeah.

251
00:14:35.264 --> 00:14:37.405
And I'm just blowing it up.

252
00:14:37.485 --> 00:14:39.266
Yankee is still alive, by the way.

253
00:14:39.866 --> 00:14:41.707
He's 85 years old.

254
00:14:41.787 --> 00:14:45.288
He travels the nation in a Breaking Bad RV preaching the gospel.

255
00:14:45.848 --> 00:14:49.230
And he's got a YouTube channel that just passed 7 million views.

256
00:14:49.920 --> 00:14:50.180
No way.

257
00:14:50.200 --> 00:14:51.101
This hillbilly preacher.

258
00:14:51.141 --> 00:14:52.643
I'm like, what in the world?

259
00:14:53.184 --> 00:14:53.704
How do you do that?

260
00:14:53.724 --> 00:14:55.126
He goes, I got to look him up.

261
00:14:55.146 --> 00:14:56.768
What's his name on YouTube?

262
00:14:56.848 --> 00:14:57.729
Yankee Arnold.

263
00:14:57.969 --> 00:14:59.711
Yankee, Ralph Yankee Arnold.

264
00:15:00.352 --> 00:15:01.293
And I go, how do you do that?

265
00:15:01.313 --> 00:15:03.295
He goes, I don't know, some kind of algorithm.

266
00:15:03.355 --> 00:15:04.837
Plus, I preach and clickbait.

267
00:15:04.897 --> 00:15:05.918
So I think that helps.

268
00:15:05.978 --> 00:15:07.860
I'm like, what in the world is happening right now?

269
00:15:08.020 --> 00:15:08.521
I love it.

270
00:15:08.801 --> 00:15:09.242
I love it.

271
00:15:09.785 --> 00:15:10.365
So good.

272
00:15:10.465 --> 00:15:11.046
It's so good.

273
00:15:11.086 --> 00:15:16.908
Well, you know, like the Lord does things his way and has always been unexpected.

274
00:15:17.048 --> 00:15:19.189
And that is just another great example.

275
00:15:20.049 --> 00:15:27.592
So before we started recording, you know, we talked about how you've been leading Dare to Share for 35 years, basically since the day you were born, right?

276
00:15:27.612 --> 00:15:30.694
Because you're 35 years old, or at least you look at.

277
00:15:30.774 --> 00:15:35.295
So when you first started it, like how did it look then versus how it looks today?

278
00:15:35.335 --> 00:15:36.636
Obviously, you're global today, but

279
00:15:39.573 --> 00:15:43.274
basically, I mean, back then it was energize a generation to evangelize the world.

280
00:15:43.294 --> 00:15:46.755
We just, you know, but basically the same, same mission.

281
00:15:47.035 --> 00:15:50.116
And yeah, it was, you know, it was very basic.

282
00:15:50.436 --> 00:15:53.016
You know, we, we didn't have any bells and whistles.

283
00:15:53.036 --> 00:15:56.837
We could fit our sound and lighting in the back of a, you know, Ford F-150.

284
00:15:56.897 --> 00:16:01.999
And, and we just went from church to church and we did a one full weekend event.

285
00:16:02.019 --> 00:16:06.620
I remember once for 11 teenagers, we had 11 people on stage, 11 teenagers in the audience that took up.

286
00:16:08.203 --> 00:16:09.144
You know, it's just small.

287
00:16:09.604 --> 00:16:12.166
But you, you know, do not despise small beginning.

288
00:16:12.206 --> 00:16:18.731
You just go, you know, you're faithful with what God puts in front of you, and then he expands as he chooses to do.

289
00:16:19.492 --> 00:16:20.593
So, yeah, I think...

290
00:16:21.470 --> 00:16:26.833
Just, you know, and then learning, I think that the Lord teaches you through all those painful times.

291
00:16:26.953 --> 00:16:33.636
And now we're, I mean, we're sensing, like, we do a day of global youth evangelism, the second Saturday of every November.

292
00:16:34.256 --> 00:16:37.037
And, you know, two years ago, we had 59,000.

293
00:16:37.077 --> 00:16:40.719
Last year, we had 298,000 in 87 countries.

294
00:16:40.759 --> 00:16:43.600
This year, we're praying for over a million teens.

295
00:16:43.821 --> 00:16:44.101
But...

296
00:16:45.450 --> 00:16:48.713
You know, we're doing the exact same thing we were doing 35 years ago.

297
00:16:48.733 --> 00:16:57.802
We're pushing and praying and swinging the sling that God gave us and trying to aim at the giants and let's advance God's kingdom together and pray all the way.

298
00:16:57.842 --> 00:17:03.327
And God uses all that painful time to humble you so you can be more useful to him.

299
00:17:03.888 --> 00:17:04.168
That's right.

300
00:17:04.188 --> 00:17:05.109
We were dependent on him.

301
00:17:05.409 --> 00:17:05.870
Yeah.

302
00:17:05.890 --> 00:17:06.751
That's right.

303
00:17:07.191 --> 00:17:08.733
Columbine happened in 99.

304
00:17:08.813 --> 00:17:12.816
I read online that that was just down the street from you guys.

305
00:17:13.217 --> 00:17:17.441
Talk to me about like how that impacted your mission and what you guys were doing.

306
00:17:18.683 --> 00:17:20.084
Yeah, it totally did.

307
00:17:20.104 --> 00:17:23.406
Because I was a pastor at the time and doing Dare to Share kind of as a side.

308
00:17:24.647 --> 00:17:24.927
Right.

309
00:17:24.947 --> 00:17:26.889
Not a hustle, but side ministry.

310
00:17:27.809 --> 00:17:29.851
And I thought I was going to do both.

311
00:17:29.891 --> 00:17:32.452
The church had grown to over a thousand people.

312
00:17:32.532 --> 00:17:33.753
I was getting momentum.

313
00:17:33.773 --> 00:17:38.677
We started with 23 and we're able to, you know, I just loved, it was Grace Church here in the Denver area.

314
00:17:39.938 --> 00:17:40.458
And yeah.

315
00:17:42.280 --> 00:17:47.505
Then Columbine, April 20th, 1999, I'm promoting a Dare to Share event.

316
00:17:48.286 --> 00:17:50.448
Our theme that year was spiritual warfare.

317
00:17:50.528 --> 00:17:52.750
So literally it was called When All Hell Breaks Loose.

318
00:17:52.970 --> 00:17:55.393
That was the title on Ephesians 6, 10 through 20.

319
00:17:55.613 --> 00:17:55.953
Wow.

320
00:17:56.554 --> 00:17:58.175
I was promoting this event.

321
00:17:59.487 --> 00:18:02.729
to six youth leaders at a Presbyterian church.

322
00:18:03.509 --> 00:18:07.010
And the pastor interrupted and said, all hell is broken loose at Columbine High School.

323
00:18:07.030 --> 00:18:07.991
You guys may want to pray.

324
00:18:08.231 --> 00:18:08.911
And so we prayed.

325
00:18:08.931 --> 00:18:12.013
We didn't know how bad it was until we got on the news and like, oh my goodness.

326
00:18:13.233 --> 00:18:15.614
That rocked, you know, everybody's world.

327
00:18:15.775 --> 00:18:16.035
I mean,

328
00:18:17.418 --> 00:18:26.048
Two shooters walked into Columbine High School and killed 12 students, one teacher, and then turned the guns on themselves.

329
00:18:26.628 --> 00:18:30.633
Well, I knew a lot of the kids at Columbine High School because they'd been the dare to share over the years.

330
00:18:31.334 --> 00:18:35.338
And my wife was a public school teacher in the same district.

331
00:18:36.439 --> 00:18:48.030
And so, you know, I just, I resigned from the church to do Dare to Share full time with a new sense of urgency that we have to mobilize teens to reach teens.

332
00:18:48.050 --> 00:18:51.713
Because I kept thinking, what if somebody had led those two shooters to Christ?

333
00:18:51.733 --> 00:18:52.594
They were high school students.

334
00:18:53.775 --> 00:18:58.799
You know, I mean, you know, we have to do something.

335
00:18:58.819 --> 00:19:01.862
And again, a gospel solution to a cultural problem is,

336
00:19:02.745 --> 00:19:06.186
You know, we have to bring it and I have to do it full time.

337
00:19:06.206 --> 00:19:10.947
And so I stepped out from the church and been full time ever since.

338
00:19:11.587 --> 00:19:11.867
Wow.

339
00:19:12.487 --> 00:19:12.747
Wow.

340
00:19:12.787 --> 00:19:13.447
That's amazing.

341
00:19:14.467 --> 00:19:15.028
All right.

342
00:19:15.068 --> 00:19:18.428
I want to take a step back and just talk about evangelism a little broadly.

343
00:19:18.448 --> 00:19:21.589
I feel like you have a really unique insight into this.

344
00:19:22.449 --> 00:19:28.710
When you think about evangelism in the church today, just at large, what would you have to say?

345
00:19:28.750 --> 00:19:30.051
Like, what encourages you?

346
00:19:30.231 --> 00:19:31.051
What concerns you?

347
00:19:36.307 --> 00:19:37.208
I get concerned.

348
00:19:39.228 --> 00:19:40.048
I love the church.

349
00:19:40.748 --> 00:19:41.589
I love the church.

350
00:19:42.729 --> 00:19:46.150
But we have settled for a come and see approach.

351
00:19:47.670 --> 00:19:51.751
You know, you come into my church on Easter service, you're going to hear the gospel.

352
00:19:52.471 --> 00:19:54.952
You come during an outreach service, you're going to hear the gospel.

353
00:19:56.072 --> 00:20:00.013
And so the biggest risk we'll take is to invite somebody to come to church.

354
00:20:02.083 --> 00:20:02.623
And that's good.

355
00:20:02.643 --> 00:20:05.244
I mean, I'm not saying that's a good thing.

356
00:20:05.304 --> 00:20:06.885
We should invite people to come to church.

357
00:20:08.025 --> 00:20:16.068
But until we combine come and see with go and tell, we're going to miss the vast majority of people.

358
00:20:17.249 --> 00:20:21.350
So in other words, the vast majority of people are not going to go to your church.

359
00:20:21.510 --> 00:20:23.671
But they'll have a conversation with you at work.

360
00:20:23.791 --> 00:20:26.292
They'll have a conversation with you at the gym.

361
00:20:26.452 --> 00:20:29.013
They'll have a conversation with you at Starbucks.

362
00:20:30.657 --> 00:20:36.340
you know, while you're walking your dog, while you're, you know, at the park with your kids, you have a conversation with you.

363
00:20:37.561 --> 00:20:46.526
We have to mobilize believers to reach their friends, neighbors, classmates, teammates, coworkers.

364
00:20:48.667 --> 00:20:55.370
And until that mental shift takes place, we're playing a losing game because come and see is not going to get it done.

365
00:20:55.971 --> 00:20:58.072
Come and see we'll get something done, which is good.

366
00:20:58.532 --> 00:20:59.893
It's better than nothing getting done.

367
00:21:00.735 --> 00:21:02.436
We have to be mobilized.

368
00:21:02.596 --> 00:21:04.696
And I believe we're going to stand and give an account before God.

369
00:21:04.716 --> 00:21:05.397
What did Jesus say?

370
00:21:05.597 --> 00:21:09.058
You come follow me and I will make you fishers of people.

371
00:21:09.718 --> 00:21:14.820
That Greek word for make is to literally form you and forge you, manufacture you into that.

372
00:21:15.180 --> 00:21:16.740
So you follow Christ.

373
00:21:17.561 --> 00:21:21.642
The inevitable result is you will be not just...

374
00:21:22.534 --> 00:21:24.895
There's a difference between going fishing and becoming a fisherman.

375
00:21:25.095 --> 00:21:26.996
Like I go fishing once in a while.

376
00:21:27.777 --> 00:21:29.298
My buddy Donnie, he's a fisherman.

377
00:21:29.698 --> 00:21:31.079
Like he, I mean, he knows everything.

378
00:21:31.099 --> 00:21:32.779
He's got poles and it's his life.

379
00:21:32.819 --> 00:21:34.040
He's always finding a way.

380
00:21:34.781 --> 00:21:41.064
Jesus wants us to be spiritual fishermen, not just to go fishing once in a while, but to be a part of our daily practice.

381
00:21:41.084 --> 00:21:50.089
So another way to phrase that is if you're not fishing, you're either not following or you're not following nearly as closely as you think you are.

382
00:21:51.309 --> 00:21:53.490
So I get concerned for two reasons.

383
00:21:53.670 --> 00:21:59.352
One is the lost people being reached, but Christians not being full disciples.

384
00:21:59.892 --> 00:22:01.133
I'm not saying they're not saved.

385
00:22:01.933 --> 00:22:03.554
I'm saying they're stuck.

386
00:22:04.234 --> 00:22:07.595
Like if you think of, I got a buddy who wrote a book called Four Chair Discipling.

387
00:22:08.295 --> 00:22:09.936
Chair one is the unbeliever.

388
00:22:09.956 --> 00:22:10.896
Chair two is the believer.

389
00:22:10.916 --> 00:22:11.977
Chair three, the worker.

390
00:22:12.337 --> 00:22:14.698
Chair four is the disciple maker.

391
00:22:14.718 --> 00:22:15.138
Yeah.

392
00:22:15.787 --> 00:22:23.810
So chair one, unbeliever, you go from unbeliever to believer, from believer to basically fisher of people, fisher of people to disciple maker.

393
00:22:24.470 --> 00:22:27.432
We have turned chair two into a lazy boy recliner.

394
00:22:29.873 --> 00:22:31.513
And the average believer stays there.

395
00:22:31.793 --> 00:22:34.074
Honestly, that's why I work primarily with teenagers.

396
00:22:34.114 --> 00:22:35.255
I mean, I train adults too.

397
00:22:35.315 --> 00:22:40.597
I mean, I trained at promise keepers and all sorts of, my primary focus is teenagers because

398
00:22:41.903 --> 00:22:42.684
Yankee was right.

399
00:22:42.724 --> 00:22:43.685
They come to Christ quicker.

400
00:22:43.705 --> 00:22:44.906
They spread the gospel faster.

401
00:22:44.946 --> 00:22:46.287
Their brains aren't fully formed yet.

402
00:22:46.607 --> 00:22:47.468
And you form them.

403
00:22:47.508 --> 00:22:49.209
You form children and teenagers.

404
00:22:49.229 --> 00:22:50.230
So it's like concrete work.

405
00:22:50.250 --> 00:22:51.471
I was in construction for eight years.

406
00:22:52.412 --> 00:22:54.574
You know, you do concrete work.

407
00:22:54.614 --> 00:22:58.037
With adults, you need a jackhammer to take out all the hard cement.

408
00:22:58.857 --> 00:23:02.921
With teens, you just, you know, put up the forms and pour the wet cement.

409
00:23:03.101 --> 00:23:04.522
And then you form them for a lifetime.

410
00:23:04.542 --> 00:23:07.164
So we get children and teenagers sharing their faith.

411
00:23:07.284 --> 00:23:07.564
They'll...

412
00:23:08.285 --> 00:23:09.506
Do it for the rest of their lives.

413
00:23:10.327 --> 00:23:11.788
At least they'll know how to do it.

414
00:23:12.168 --> 00:23:14.490
So again, I don't give up on adults.

415
00:23:15.511 --> 00:23:29.783
I mean, adults, if you're an adult listening to this, you can become a fisher of people, but you have to take radical, drastic action to change your habits and to make this a central part, not a spoke, but a hub of what you do.

416
00:23:30.643 --> 00:23:32.425
It's the Great Commission for all of us.

417
00:23:32.525 --> 00:23:33.446
Go and make disciples.

418
00:23:33.466 --> 00:23:34.807
That's not just for our preachers.

419
00:23:36.569 --> 00:23:37.330
That's for everybody.

420
00:23:37.950 --> 00:23:38.531
Yes.

421
00:23:38.731 --> 00:23:40.653
We all know we ought to be, Chair One.

422
00:23:41.074 --> 00:23:42.335
We all know we ought to be there.

423
00:23:43.396 --> 00:23:45.578
But I think sometimes we can become complacent.

424
00:23:45.699 --> 00:23:47.801
We can be on that lazy boy recliner.

425
00:23:47.901 --> 00:23:49.563
I'm feeling a weight of conviction right now.

426
00:23:49.603 --> 00:23:52.265
I bet a lot of our audience is too right now.

427
00:23:52.325 --> 00:23:55.349
So I want to spend a few more minutes here because I think this is important.

428
00:23:55.569 --> 00:23:56.169
Sure.

429
00:23:56.710 --> 00:23:57.751
We don't want come and see.

430
00:23:57.911 --> 00:23:58.912
We want go and tell.

431
00:23:59.753 --> 00:24:05.978
But I think a lot of Christians think that inviting your friends to church is go and tell, but it's not.

432
00:24:06.078 --> 00:24:08.300
No, it's a good step toward that.

433
00:24:08.320 --> 00:24:09.981
So let me give you just a quick add on.

434
00:24:10.141 --> 00:24:10.361
Right.

435
00:24:10.501 --> 00:24:11.602
Yeah.

436
00:24:11.622 --> 00:24:15.145
So let me give you some hacks, because listen, what's past is past.

437
00:24:16.583 --> 00:24:18.324
Let's move forward now, right?

438
00:24:18.344 --> 00:24:19.344
You can't change the past.

439
00:24:19.484 --> 00:24:21.125
Don't let Satan shame you, right?

440
00:24:21.545 --> 00:24:26.287
But, you know, conviction is like, or guilt is like cholesterol.

441
00:24:26.307 --> 00:24:28.568
There's good cholesterol and there's bad cholesterol, right?

442
00:24:29.028 --> 00:24:33.709
So let's let this be good, holy guilt that spurs us on to a different change of life.

443
00:24:34.070 --> 00:24:35.030
Let's not live in the past.

444
00:24:35.590 --> 00:24:37.791
But give you some hacks.

445
00:24:38.611 --> 00:24:40.072
Come and see, right?

446
00:24:40.132 --> 00:24:40.912
Come with me to church.

447
00:24:40.932 --> 00:24:41.372
They come.

448
00:24:41.773 --> 00:24:42.893
Let's go to lunch afterward.

449
00:24:44.123 --> 00:24:44.823
Now, what did you think?

450
00:24:44.843 --> 00:24:45.944
That's what we did when I was a pastor.

451
00:24:45.964 --> 00:24:51.066
We'd say, listen, if you bring them, you take them to lunch after, and you ask them what they thought of what the preacher said.

452
00:24:51.686 --> 00:24:55.348
And all of a sudden, our people are the ones doing, it was a reverse altar call.

453
00:24:55.368 --> 00:24:59.530
They're doing the conversation at the restaurant afterward, right?

454
00:25:00.090 --> 00:25:00.870
So you can do that.

455
00:25:02.431 --> 00:25:03.432
I'll give you three words.

456
00:25:04.173 --> 00:25:06.796
Ask, admire, admit.

457
00:25:07.457 --> 00:25:08.398
So ask questions.

458
00:25:09.198 --> 00:25:11.721
And find out where somebody is spiritually.

459
00:25:11.821 --> 00:25:13.844
You could do that by saying, is there any way I can pray for you?

460
00:25:14.264 --> 00:25:15.786
Well, you know, I don't really believe in God.

461
00:25:16.727 --> 00:25:17.768
Okay, tell me why.

462
00:25:18.188 --> 00:25:21.169
So you don't argue, you probe, right?

463
00:25:21.849 --> 00:25:26.751
Or, yeah, you can pray for me, and I've been far from God, but I do believe, and I went to Esagino.

464
00:25:26.931 --> 00:25:28.211
Or, do you go to church anywhere?

465
00:25:28.351 --> 00:25:29.752
That's another question you can ask.

466
00:25:30.392 --> 00:25:32.993
Again, that's not your lead question, but get to it.

467
00:25:33.153 --> 00:25:34.313
Or, do you have any spiritual beliefs?

468
00:25:34.533 --> 00:25:37.534
Or, you know, who do you think Jesus was?

469
00:25:37.614 --> 00:25:39.995
And awkward, yeah, it's a little awkward.

470
00:25:40.935 --> 00:25:43.196
But we have a saying at Dare to Share, awkward is awesome.

471
00:25:44.616 --> 00:25:46.477
Because awkward is where change happens.

472
00:25:47.897 --> 00:25:50.698
Jesus was the king of kings and the prince of awkward.

473
00:25:50.738 --> 00:25:54.339
Like he told the woman at the well, go get your husband.

474
00:25:54.379 --> 00:25:55.479
I haven't had a husband yet.

475
00:25:55.499 --> 00:25:58.460
You've had five husbands and the dude you're with now is not your husband.

476
00:25:58.480 --> 00:25:59.540
That's awkward, right?

477
00:26:00.341 --> 00:26:03.361
You rich young ruler, go sell everything you have, give it to the poor and follow me.

478
00:26:03.521 --> 00:26:03.882
Awkward.

479
00:26:03.942 --> 00:26:06.882
I mean, he was awkward fest, right?

480
00:26:07.282 --> 00:26:09.683
Everywhere he went and he changed lives everywhere he went.

481
00:26:10.303 --> 00:26:12.224
So be willing to lean into the awkward.

482
00:26:12.444 --> 00:26:15.285
So ask, find out what they believe, admire.

483
00:26:15.325 --> 00:26:16.085
Well, I'm an atheist.

484
00:26:16.545 --> 00:26:17.206
Oh, why is that?

485
00:26:17.246 --> 00:26:19.388
Well, I believe in science and reason.

486
00:26:19.408 --> 00:26:20.048
Well, you know what?

487
00:26:20.248 --> 00:26:21.009
That's commendable.

488
00:26:21.029 --> 00:26:22.791
I'm glad you believe in science and reason.

489
00:26:23.091 --> 00:26:29.416
You know, that's something to be, I appreciate your honesty, you know, or I'm a Mormon or I'm a Muslim.

490
00:26:29.456 --> 00:26:34.141
I want to find, like Paul in Acts 17, something you can commend, right?

491
00:26:34.161 --> 00:26:35.222
It doesn't mean you agree with them,

492
00:26:35.822 --> 00:26:39.164
But something you can say, oh, you know, hey, you're Muslim, you pray five times a day.

493
00:26:39.224 --> 00:26:40.605
That's commitment, you know.

494
00:26:41.745 --> 00:26:42.365
And then admit.

495
00:26:42.646 --> 00:26:47.428
Admit the reason you're a Christian is you're so messed up you needed Jesus to save you and share your story.

496
00:26:48.269 --> 00:26:54.792
And then at Dare to Share, we actually train students in a gospel acrostic, which sounds kind of, well, that's for children.

497
00:26:54.832 --> 00:26:58.854
No, it's a creed, G-O-S-P-E-L.

498
00:26:58.894 --> 00:26:59.595
It's an outline.

499
00:27:00.580 --> 00:27:01.221
It's a story.

500
00:27:01.761 --> 00:27:03.543
G, God created us to be with him.

501
00:27:03.563 --> 00:27:05.544
Or our sins separate us from God.

502
00:27:05.564 --> 00:27:08.146
S, sins cannot be removed by good deeds.

503
00:27:08.767 --> 00:27:11.149
P, paying the price for sin, Jesus died and rose again.

504
00:27:11.169 --> 00:27:14.251
E, everyone who trusts in him alone has eternal life.

505
00:27:14.292 --> 00:27:16.453
And L, life with Jesus starts now and lasts forever.

506
00:27:17.094 --> 00:27:20.777
You memorize that and then you start to build on that.

507
00:27:20.797 --> 00:27:24.940
So each of those becomes kind of a talking point as you're walking through the gospel message.

508
00:27:25.000 --> 00:27:27.282
And what we have found, we call it gospel fluency.

509
00:27:28.203 --> 00:27:34.638
is once a teenager's got gospel urgency, why should I do this, and gospel fluency, then the strategy just flows.

510
00:27:35.755 --> 00:27:38.916
You know, I'm going to remember it now because my name is Alicia.

511
00:27:38.936 --> 00:27:39.756
It starts with an A.

512
00:27:40.156 --> 00:27:42.316
Ask, admire and admit.

513
00:27:42.756 --> 00:27:44.217
And awkward is awesome.

514
00:27:44.417 --> 00:27:44.677
It was.

515
00:27:44.717 --> 00:27:45.057
Yes.

516
00:27:45.457 --> 00:27:46.577
Tailor made for me.

517
00:27:46.597 --> 00:27:47.517
That's right.

518
00:27:47.617 --> 00:27:48.157
Four A's.

519
00:27:48.437 --> 00:27:49.117
Quadruple A.

520
00:27:49.377 --> 00:27:49.858
There you go.

521
00:27:49.878 --> 00:27:50.358
So good.

522
00:27:50.498 --> 00:27:51.038
So good.

523
00:27:51.118 --> 00:27:52.118
All right.

524
00:27:52.298 --> 00:27:56.499
What do you think teenagers can teach us adults about evangelism?

525
00:27:56.559 --> 00:27:58.619
What are they getting right that we need to learn?

526
00:27:59.939 --> 00:28:03.340
Well, I think one of the things you're getting right is they don't they don't overthink it.

527
00:28:04.807 --> 00:28:09.893
I just trained 500 teenagers last week here in Colorado from all over the nation, 11 global leaders.

528
00:28:11.095 --> 00:28:19.725
One kid called his mom over the phone and just said, I got to tell you something, mom, and laid the gospel on her.

529
00:28:20.306 --> 00:28:21.708
And she trusted Christ over the phone.

530
00:28:23.223 --> 00:28:26.165
He's telling this story and tears are just streaming down his face.

531
00:28:26.245 --> 00:28:27.486
Another girl called her dad.

532
00:28:28.066 --> 00:28:32.189
She had been, she'd not seen him for years because he was abusive to her and her mom.

533
00:28:32.990 --> 00:28:38.053
She called her, she called him up and started, you know, sharing the gospel and wanted to pray with him.

534
00:28:38.113 --> 00:28:40.514
And she goes, who told you to call me?

535
00:28:40.935 --> 00:28:41.895
And she said, Jesus.

536
00:28:43.116 --> 00:28:46.859
And he goes, I was moments away from taking my life when you called.

537
00:28:47.975 --> 00:28:48.936
And now they have a plan.

538
00:28:48.956 --> 00:28:50.417
They're going to go to church together.

539
00:28:50.437 --> 00:28:52.978
I mean, just don't overthink it.

540
00:28:53.178 --> 00:28:54.539
Don't overanalyze it.

541
00:28:55.940 --> 00:28:58.441
You know, people just get in there.

542
00:28:58.902 --> 00:29:02.984
When you love people, the last thing we want to do is be obnoxious.

543
00:29:03.084 --> 00:29:05.806
You know, I see some of these Christians, you know, screaming to people.

544
00:29:05.846 --> 00:29:10.709
I'm like, bro, seriously, how's it going?

545
00:29:10.729 --> 00:29:10.969
Yeah.

546
00:29:11.885 --> 00:29:12.445
I'll ask them.

547
00:29:12.886 --> 00:29:15.848
They're like, well, I've been persecuted all day.

548
00:29:15.928 --> 00:29:21.391
I said, well, I led three people to Christ just 10 minutes ago because I was talking to them, not screaming at them.

549
00:29:21.631 --> 00:29:25.714
You know, don't put all evangelism in that.

550
00:29:26.074 --> 00:29:29.276
That's, you know, that's one small area.

551
00:29:30.217 --> 00:29:33.938
Think of a gospel conversation, not just an evangelistic presentation.

552
00:29:34.458 --> 00:29:35.299
And just go for it.

553
00:29:35.379 --> 00:29:36.579
And you have a coach.

554
00:29:36.779 --> 00:29:39.920
You have your personal coach, the Holy Spirit, who will help you.

555
00:29:39.960 --> 00:29:40.560
And we'll help you.

556
00:29:40.600 --> 00:29:41.060
Dare to share.

557
00:29:41.140 --> 00:29:45.001
Actually, we have a lot of free tools on our website.

558
00:29:45.021 --> 00:29:45.742
Dare to share.

559
00:29:46.402 --> 00:29:55.585
And I just completed a new book that comes out in January called Out Loud with Words, How to Naturally Share the Gospel with Anyone, Anywhere, Anytime.

560
00:29:55.605 --> 00:29:57.105
It's actually my first book.

561
00:29:58.129 --> 00:30:00.971
evangelism training book for an adult audience.

562
00:30:02.031 --> 00:30:07.294
So, because I just want to, you know, we have so much stuff for teenagers, you know.

563
00:30:07.795 --> 00:30:15.599
I said, we need to throw a ball into the adults and help them, because it's the same training that we use with teens, just with different illustrations.

564
00:30:15.699 --> 00:30:17.160
And adults need it too.

565
00:30:17.200 --> 00:30:21.362
Adults, teenagers need moms and dads who are living this out.

566
00:30:21.482 --> 00:30:25.345
My adult children now share Christ consistently.

567
00:30:25.365 --> 00:30:25.465
Yeah.

568
00:30:26.213 --> 00:30:26.713
You know why?

569
00:30:26.894 --> 00:30:28.815
Not because they went to the Dare to Share program.

570
00:30:29.095 --> 00:30:31.898
It's because they saw mom and dad sharing Christ consistently.

571
00:30:31.918 --> 00:30:32.879
We did it as a family.

572
00:30:34.009 --> 00:30:39.313
You know, I would say, Jeremy, my son, hey, why don't you let the server know what's changed your life, you know?

573
00:30:40.013 --> 00:30:43.836
And, you know, my daughter would be like, hey, how can we pray for you to the server?

574
00:30:43.896 --> 00:30:46.858
And just, we would do this as, it was like a family.

575
00:30:46.998 --> 00:30:50.680
We're going to go, we're going on vacation this next week to Hawaii.

576
00:30:50.700 --> 00:30:52.582
We're looking forward, all of us are going to go.

577
00:30:53.122 --> 00:30:55.964
And it's, I guarantee it, we're going to have gospel conversations every day.

578
00:30:56.645 --> 00:30:59.286
And it's just because we raised our kids that way.

579
00:30:59.567 --> 00:31:02.889
And now they're going to raise, when they have kids, they're going to raise them that way because it's part of.

580
00:31:03.959 --> 00:31:06.161
It's witness as we go, not just go on and witness.

581
00:31:06.881 --> 00:31:07.642
Yeah, that's good.

582
00:31:07.702 --> 00:31:08.142
Watch out.

583
00:31:08.262 --> 00:31:09.063
Watch out, Hawaii.

584
00:31:09.103 --> 00:31:10.364
Something is about to shift.

585
00:31:11.324 --> 00:31:12.545
The steers are coming for you.

586
00:31:12.645 --> 00:31:13.606
The steers are coming.

587
00:31:13.826 --> 00:31:14.547
We're going to get you.

588
00:31:15.367 --> 00:31:15.888
I love it.

589
00:31:16.288 --> 00:31:16.688
I love it.

590
00:31:16.748 --> 00:31:16.989
Okay.

591
00:31:17.009 --> 00:31:20.651
Well, I want to shift now into talking a little bit about leadership.

592
00:31:20.671 --> 00:31:24.734
You've been leading for, you know, over three decades.

593
00:31:24.834 --> 00:31:27.617
Looking back, what are some of the important lessons you've learned?

594
00:31:28.857 --> 00:31:30.679
Well, lead with prayer, like,

595
00:31:32.241 --> 00:31:35.725
One of my advantages is I know I'm not that smart, actually.

596
00:31:36.006 --> 00:31:39.590
I'm, you know, I'm street smart, but I'm not that smart.

597
00:31:39.650 --> 00:31:44.536
So I've always said, okay, I want to talk to the wisest being in the universe and get his wisdom.

598
00:31:45.276 --> 00:31:47.179
So prayer, you know, I'm figuring it out.

599
00:31:47.619 --> 00:31:50.142
Secondly, I would say, you know, get people around you.

600
00:31:51.183 --> 00:31:54.605
that are smarter than you and let them do their jobs.

601
00:31:55.205 --> 00:32:04.491
You know, like God bless you to share with the best ministry leader I've ever encountered 30 plus years ago, Debbie Brissina.

602
00:32:04.511 --> 00:32:06.272
She had her own strategy and marketing firm

603
00:32:07.512 --> 00:32:12.733
And she started volunteering and dared to share, fell in love with the vision and the mission because she struggled as a teenager.

604
00:32:12.813 --> 00:32:16.134
And eventually she was actually our first full time employee.

605
00:32:16.374 --> 00:32:20.954
And for nine years, she's our executive director of strategic partnerships.

606
00:32:20.994 --> 00:32:25.735
But for nine years, she was our president and best ministry leader I've ever met.

607
00:32:26.395 --> 00:32:32.876
And then Jason, who our current president, we all three of us work together now, but Jason's a phenomenal leader.

608
00:32:33.556 --> 00:32:33.876
I'm not.

609
00:32:33.956 --> 00:32:34.537
I know I'm not.

610
00:32:34.597 --> 00:32:36.157
I'm Michael Scott in the office.

611
00:32:36.557 --> 00:32:36.817
Right.

612
00:32:39.047 --> 00:32:44.031
My daughter, she binge watched The Office and she goes, Dad, I've realized you're just like Michael Scott except for two things.

613
00:32:44.071 --> 00:32:44.512
I go, what?

614
00:32:44.552 --> 00:32:47.454
She goes, you're not inappropriate and you're not acting.

615
00:32:47.835 --> 00:32:48.635
I'm like, well, it's true.

616
00:32:50.417 --> 00:32:51.638
So I took myself out.

617
00:32:51.698 --> 00:32:53.860
Like I'm the visionary of the ministry.

618
00:32:53.900 --> 00:32:54.781
I have no authority here.

619
00:32:55.081 --> 00:32:55.822
I don't need, I don't know.

620
00:32:55.862 --> 00:32:59.125
It's like if you can't lead through influence, then what kind of leader are you, you know?

621
00:33:00.386 --> 00:33:02.368
So I think just you're getting the right people.

622
00:33:02.937 --> 00:33:03.317
Yeah.

623
00:33:03.477 --> 00:33:03.638
Yeah.

624
00:33:03.658 --> 00:33:05.199
Well, that's an important thing.

625
00:33:05.359 --> 00:33:07.540
I think as a leader, you know, you started Dare to Share.

626
00:33:07.881 --> 00:33:13.665
I imagine in the beginning you were doing absolutely everything, just like I am doing everything at Faithly today.

627
00:33:14.305 --> 00:33:19.849
But it sounds like that that was like an actually a natural transition for you to rely on great people around you.

628
00:33:19.869 --> 00:33:20.049
Yeah.

629
00:33:20.590 --> 00:33:21.570
Yeah.

630
00:33:21.651 --> 00:33:22.571
As God raises them up.

631
00:33:22.611 --> 00:33:27.155
And then I think, you know, having a crystal clear vision, like our vision,

632
00:33:28.087 --> 00:33:31.791
is every teen everywhere hearing the gospel from a friend.

633
00:33:32.552 --> 00:33:37.397
Our mission is to energize the church, to mobilize youth, to gospelize their world.

634
00:33:37.477 --> 00:33:44.304
And if you go down to the strategic pillars and everything that we do, it's all aligned for one thing.

635
00:33:44.925 --> 00:33:48.188
You know, so I think really having that crystal, and that takes a while.

636
00:33:48.208 --> 00:33:52.271
I mean, it takes a while to figure out, you know, even as you're going, like, what does that look like?

637
00:33:52.751 --> 00:33:56.394
But now our whole staff, I mean, they quote it out loud together, like, here's what we're doing.

638
00:33:56.414 --> 00:33:57.134
Here's where we're going.

639
00:33:57.495 --> 00:33:58.696
Here's our milestones.

640
00:33:58.716 --> 00:34:03.199
Here's our key objectives, our KPIs, all the stuff that I didn't know any of that language.

641
00:34:03.279 --> 00:34:06.041
Debbie Brissina, she brought all that stuff into the organization.

642
00:34:06.101 --> 00:34:06.902
I'm like, okay.

643
00:34:07.737 --> 00:34:09.138
I would say, what's an outcome?

644
00:34:09.158 --> 00:34:11.580
She's like, it's what comes out of all your efforts.

645
00:34:11.600 --> 00:34:12.620
I'm like, yeah, I understand.

646
00:34:13.341 --> 00:34:14.562
She would have to instruct me.

647
00:34:15.743 --> 00:34:20.726
But, you know, having that clear vision really does it.

648
00:34:20.906 --> 00:34:22.407
It helps you know what not to do.

649
00:34:23.048 --> 00:34:23.268
Yes.

650
00:34:23.288 --> 00:34:26.270
Because entrepreneurs get distracted like me.

651
00:34:26.430 --> 00:34:28.452
We get distracted by bright, shiny objects.

652
00:34:30.173 --> 00:34:33.355
And we have to keep our eye on the vision.

653
00:34:34.056 --> 00:34:34.336
Yes.

654
00:34:35.076 --> 00:34:37.278
You know, and not stray.

655
00:34:37.868 --> 00:34:39.368
That resonates with me.

656
00:34:39.728 --> 00:34:46.289
Over the past four years of building Faithfully, every now and then you get people come to you saying, hey, would you build it like this for us?

657
00:34:46.610 --> 00:34:53.111
You know, and you would veer a little bit off this way and realize, wait a second, that's not the vision the Lord gave me.

658
00:34:53.131 --> 00:34:54.791
And you have to kind of tap yourself back.

659
00:34:54.831 --> 00:34:57.231
But it's easy to sort of go off in these tributaries.

660
00:34:58.152 --> 00:35:02.692
And I have had to learn, like you have to keep your focus on that singular vision.

661
00:35:03.332 --> 00:35:05.273
That and I have to find a Debbie Prasina.

662
00:35:05.333 --> 00:35:06.333
That's my other takeaway.

663
00:35:06.935 --> 00:35:07.155
Yeah.

664
00:35:07.295 --> 00:35:08.916
You know, there's a great rocket fuel.

665
00:35:08.996 --> 00:35:10.737
I don't know if you've ever read the book, Rocket Fuel.

666
00:35:10.757 --> 00:35:11.638
No, not yet.

667
00:35:11.778 --> 00:35:12.578
It's phenomenal.

668
00:35:12.658 --> 00:35:16.420
So it basically talks about two key leaders you need.

669
00:35:16.460 --> 00:35:18.581
You need the visionary and you need an integrator.

670
00:35:19.222 --> 00:35:19.562
Hmm.

671
00:35:20.592 --> 00:35:26.636
And for our first 25 years, you know, I mean, or probably 30 years, you know, I was a visionary.

672
00:35:26.856 --> 00:35:27.977
Deb was the integrator.

673
00:35:28.337 --> 00:35:28.557
Right.

674
00:35:28.717 --> 00:35:30.178
And now we have a third component.

675
00:35:30.339 --> 00:35:32.660
Jason is more that he's kind of a combo pack.

676
00:35:32.880 --> 00:35:33.521
Right.

677
00:35:33.721 --> 00:35:34.141
Both those.

678
00:35:34.721 --> 00:35:44.388
But really finding that is really important because, you know, everybody plays their role.

679
00:35:44.468 --> 00:35:48.951
And that synergy between those two leads to exponential results.

680
00:35:49.716 --> 00:35:51.076
Yes, yes, that's good.

681
00:35:52.657 --> 00:36:02.539
So also before we started recording, Greg, we were talking about youth pastors and youth ministers and the burden that you feel to minister to them.

682
00:36:03.620 --> 00:36:05.120
Can you talk a little bit about that?

683
00:36:05.540 --> 00:36:09.721
And in particular, talk about a healthy youth pastor.

684
00:36:09.761 --> 00:36:12.102
What do the healthy youth pastors have in common?

685
00:36:13.402 --> 00:36:14.603
Yeah, that's a really good question.

686
00:36:14.643 --> 00:36:15.723
I mean, you know, there's...

687
00:36:17.202 --> 00:36:19.103
I call it being half monk, half missionary.

688
00:36:19.343 --> 00:36:25.725
So like a healthy youth pastor has got their personal life rooted in Christ.

689
00:36:27.526 --> 00:36:28.786
They're in the word, they're praying.

690
00:36:29.806 --> 00:36:33.067
They look at that as core to what they do, right?

691
00:36:33.167 --> 00:36:35.148
They're seeking to have a healthy marriage.

692
00:36:35.408 --> 00:36:36.869
They build strong relationships.

693
00:36:37.409 --> 00:36:40.490
But then the missionary side is they're, you know,

694
00:36:40.810 --> 00:36:42.471
They're dealing with middle schoolers.

695
00:36:42.511 --> 00:36:43.872
They're on the campus.

696
00:36:44.632 --> 00:36:46.953
They're, you know, mobilizing teens.

697
00:36:47.334 --> 00:36:50.736
And so I would say they have a deep and wide approach.

698
00:36:50.776 --> 00:36:53.517
So deep in the word, wide in the world, right?

699
00:36:55.098 --> 00:37:01.241
And they build healthy relationships with their senior pastors and the parents.

700
00:37:01.282 --> 00:37:04.163
They're not trying to replace the parents.

701
00:37:04.183 --> 00:37:05.584
They're trying to enhance the parents.

702
00:37:06.084 --> 00:37:09.226
So those parents are joining with them in that kind of ministry.

703
00:37:09.326 --> 00:37:22.904
I wrote a book years ago called Ministry Mutiny, and it was about an unhealthy youth leader that woke up one day and realized all my teenagers are narcissists and I am wasting my time.

704
00:37:23.875 --> 00:37:31.518
And he was going to his last network meeting with other youth leaders, and he met Tony, a seasoned youth leader with a strong youth ministry.

705
00:37:32.499 --> 00:37:35.720
And Tony said, before you quit, give me eight weeks.

706
00:37:36.221 --> 00:37:52.348
And he met with him once a week for eight weeks and taught him a new principle every week to build, you know, to have a ministry mutiny, not against, you know, your church, but against the game-driven, superficial,

707
00:37:53.933 --> 00:38:01.214
a programized philosophy of youth ministry that has been non-maliciously delivered to us by our youth ministry forefathers.

708
00:38:01.234 --> 00:38:04.675
So what we try to do is we help.

709
00:38:04.715 --> 00:38:15.917
I have a book I wrote called Gospelize Your Youth Ministry, and it's a book on how to build your youth ministry on seven principles rooted in the book of Acts so you can have a healthy youth ministry.

710
00:38:16.497 --> 00:38:18.458
And it's a free digital download if people want to.

711
00:38:18.498 --> 00:38:20.318
It's on Audible, too, if people want to listen to it.

712
00:38:21.045 --> 00:38:21.305
Wow.

713
00:38:22.186 --> 00:38:29.690
So by my count, you've mentioned five or six books already, but I believe you've written more than 20.

714
00:38:30.170 --> 00:38:30.870
Is that right?

715
00:38:31.290 --> 00:38:32.851
I think I've written this new one.

716
00:38:32.911 --> 00:38:34.132
It'll be my 25th one.

717
00:38:34.472 --> 00:38:37.594
You know, some of those are digital books and a couple of them are co-written.

718
00:38:38.174 --> 00:38:40.315
But yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

719
00:38:40.915 --> 00:38:43.457
Which one of those was the hardest to write?

720
00:38:44.349 --> 00:38:47.332
The hardest was Unlikely Fighter, my memoir.

721
00:38:47.873 --> 00:38:56.802
Like, because I'm a nonfiction writer, I'm a preacher, you know, so every chapter is a sermon with, you know, illustration and open clothes and some practical points.

722
00:38:57.740 --> 00:38:58.720
Unlikely fighter.

723
00:38:58.920 --> 00:39:03.282
I put it, I gave it to my, I wrote two chapters, three chapters, gave it to my agent.

724
00:39:04.303 --> 00:39:05.463
And he didn't return my call.

725
00:39:05.543 --> 00:39:08.684
And I called him and he's like, you can't, this is terrible.

726
00:39:09.224 --> 00:39:10.505
I don't think I can represent you.

727
00:39:10.705 --> 00:39:11.405
You can't write.

728
00:39:11.425 --> 00:39:13.486
I'm like, well, I've written lots of books.

729
00:39:13.506 --> 00:39:15.427
He goes, well, you can't write a memoir.

730
00:39:15.587 --> 00:39:17.888
And I'm like, well, how do you write a memoir?

731
00:39:18.628 --> 00:39:19.948
And he goes, you got to read it.

732
00:39:19.988 --> 00:39:20.909
Have you read a memoir?

733
00:39:20.929 --> 00:39:23.749
And I'm like, I don't think I've read a memoir.

734
00:39:23.769 --> 00:39:26.730
He goes, well, you should read one before you write one.

735
00:39:27.430 --> 00:39:32.791
And so it was like hillbilly elegy and then like a book called Educated or Uneducated.

736
00:39:33.231 --> 00:39:35.452
And then I rewrote.

737
00:39:35.672 --> 00:39:40.853
And it was so hard because I would call my wife, and I'm not a crier.

738
00:39:40.913 --> 00:39:44.134
I would call my wife bawling because I'd go lock myself in a cabin.

739
00:39:44.914 --> 00:39:46.074
And I go, why am I crying?

740
00:39:46.094 --> 00:39:48.395
And she goes, because you're getting in the time machine.

741
00:39:50.155 --> 00:39:52.336
so I preach my sermon illustrations as quick.

742
00:39:52.396 --> 00:39:57.838
I skim that like a rock skims the surface, you know, just enough to get them laugh or get them crying and preach.

743
00:39:58.038 --> 00:39:58.278
Right.

744
00:39:59.138 --> 00:40:06.780
When you write a memoir, you have to help your reader smell what you smell to see what you saw, feel what you felt.

745
00:40:06.980 --> 00:40:08.281
And I had to refill.

746
00:40:08.441 --> 00:40:12.542
I did not realize how traumatizing my childhood was.

747
00:40:13.962 --> 00:40:15.783
Like it was traumatizing.

748
00:40:17.274 --> 00:40:22.360
And I mean, God's, you know, brought me through healing and all the, all the fun stuff, but, uh,

749
00:40:23.760 --> 00:40:25.701
Yeah, I mean, it was painful.

750
00:40:26.081 --> 00:40:32.605
And what it ended up becoming is, you know, I'm really proud of that book.

751
00:40:33.225 --> 00:40:37.548
And I interviewed all my family to make sure I was telling things right, you know.

752
00:40:38.128 --> 00:40:39.509
I don't want to exaggerate.

753
00:40:40.289 --> 00:40:42.930
And, yeah, I'm excited about it.

754
00:40:43.331 --> 00:40:43.531
Yeah.

755
00:40:43.771 --> 00:40:44.031
Wow.

756
00:40:44.471 --> 00:40:44.731
Wow.

757
00:40:45.592 --> 00:40:46.953
Do you think you have more books than you?

758
00:40:47.793 --> 00:40:47.993
Yeah.

759
00:40:49.014 --> 00:40:49.314
Yeah, yeah.

760
00:40:50.530 --> 00:40:53.471
I've been average in a book a year since I started writing.

761
00:40:54.432 --> 00:40:54.652
Wow.

762
00:40:54.712 --> 00:40:56.052
What's the next one we should expect?

763
00:40:56.853 --> 00:40:59.074
Well, the one on evangelism, Out Loud with Words.

764
00:40:59.094 --> 00:41:00.594
Oh, yeah, Out Loud with Words.

765
00:41:00.634 --> 00:41:01.695
Okay, when is that coming out?

766
00:41:02.615 --> 00:41:04.756
January is when it's, I think, late January.

767
00:41:05.360 --> 00:41:05.880
January.

768
00:41:05.941 --> 00:41:08.623
Okay, we'll make sure to include a note about that in the show notes.

769
00:41:09.663 --> 00:41:11.205
Greg, we're coming up on time.

770
00:41:11.225 --> 00:41:14.547
So I think I want to leave it with this one big picture question.

771
00:41:15.688 --> 00:41:21.333
If you could change one thing about how churches think about the next generation, what would it be?

772
00:41:24.068 --> 00:41:26.909
That they're the now generation, not the next generation.

773
00:41:27.990 --> 00:41:28.430
That's good.

774
00:41:28.470 --> 00:41:30.191
That they're not the church of tomorrow.

775
00:41:30.211 --> 00:41:31.392
They're the church of today.

776
00:41:32.112 --> 00:41:35.914
That Jesus chose primarily teenagers to be his followers.

777
00:41:37.154 --> 00:41:47.899
And that when we look at them as second-class citizens, that they have the junior Holy Spirit, then no wonder they leave the church after they graduate from high school.

778
00:41:48.800 --> 00:41:51.041
But if we empower them now and equip them now,

779
00:41:52.541 --> 00:41:57.265
and get them gospelized now, they will set the pace, not just someday, but today.

780
00:41:58.146 --> 00:41:59.947
So do not underestimate.

781
00:42:00.087 --> 00:42:01.128
Do not look past them.

782
00:42:01.608 --> 00:42:03.270
Do not take your youth leader for granted.

783
00:42:05.131 --> 00:42:05.792
Raise them up.

784
00:42:05.932 --> 00:42:06.993
Mobilize them now.

785
00:42:07.313 --> 00:42:09.335
Unleash the next generation now.

786
00:42:11.220 --> 00:42:11.760
That's good.

787
00:42:12.000 --> 00:42:12.741
That's really good.

788
00:42:12.781 --> 00:42:14.521
Greg, thank you so much for your time today.

789
00:42:14.861 --> 00:42:18.763
This has been such an impactful and memorable conversation.

790
00:42:18.863 --> 00:42:20.964
I'm going to give myself a little pop quiz right now.

791
00:42:21.724 --> 00:42:22.284
My A's.

792
00:42:22.945 --> 00:42:23.105
Ask

793
00:42:24.253 --> 00:42:25.393
Admire, admit.

794
00:42:25.953 --> 00:42:27.334
Awkward is awesome.

795
00:42:27.474 --> 00:42:27.694
Yep.

796
00:42:28.594 --> 00:42:29.854
That's awesome.

797
00:42:30.774 --> 00:42:31.555
You did good.

798
00:42:31.575 --> 00:42:33.335
Now you've got to memorize the gospel acrostic.

799
00:42:33.395 --> 00:42:33.995
That's next.

800
00:42:34.455 --> 00:42:36.696
But truly, this has been such an impactful conversation.

801
00:42:36.736 --> 00:42:38.276
It has been so memorable.

802
00:42:39.156 --> 00:42:40.216
I learned so much from you.

803
00:42:40.236 --> 00:42:42.397
We touched upon so many topics.

804
00:42:42.757 --> 00:42:46.918
I'm so grateful for your time, and I'm looking forward to the next conversation, Greg.

805
00:42:47.532 --> 00:42:49.074
Hey, God bless you, Alicia.

806
00:42:49.194 --> 00:42:59.247
And I will send you a page to our website that has all this stuff on it that will help you memorize and any of your readers that want to know more about it.

807
00:43:00.028 --> 00:43:00.468
I love it.

808
00:43:00.608 --> 00:43:00.989
I love it.

809
00:43:01.089 --> 00:43:01.670
Thank you, Greg.

810
00:43:02.230 --> 00:43:02.611
Thank you.