What No One Tells You About Empowering Women - Wanda Walborn | Faithly Podcast

One moment in His presence. They need the presence of the Lord. They don't need a pep talk. They don't need, you know, great... They do need understanding, knowledge, good theology, good, you know, understanding the Bible. Absolutely. But they need a moment in His presence where they know it's the Father asking them. Welcome to the Faithly Podcast. Today, I'm joined by Wanda Walborn. Wanda is the founder and executive director of Empower. It is a global ministry that focuses on equipping and empowering women all over the world. And I've been looking forward to this conversation, not just to hear about the work that she's doing, but to hear the story behind the work. So Wanda, thank you so much for being here. I'm thrilled to be here, Alicia. Thank you so much for inviting me. So Wanda, as I said, I'd love to start with you. Tell me about your faith journey. Okay. I grew up in a family of seven kids. I'm the middle of seven. We were in church whenever the doors were open. My dad was not a pastor, but we were always there. And so I grew up just always being in church and the expectation that we would grow and learn and read our Bible and pray and all those kinds of things. And so we had a very solid foundation in the Word and in church. Now, when did you first sense a call into ministry? Well, yes, that's interesting. I accepted Jesus as my Savior when I was eight years old. And then when I was in the fifth grade, I was 10 years old. And I remember very specifically, it was at a conference at our church. The missionary asked, if God called you to serve him anywhere in the world, would you say yes? And if you would say yes, would you stand? And I was the first child out of my seat. And I remember standing. And then you know how all the other kids join in and everyone's standing. So oftentimes with children, you think, oh, you know, they're all just standing. They're coming in on the same thing. But that so impacted my life that that is why I went to the college I went to, the major, I majored in missions. Then I switched to Christian ed, I switched to elementary ed. I didn't even date a guy unless he was going overseas to be a missionary. So I knew at a very, very early age that God had called me to ministry. And actually, that's even the husband that I have, I saw the strong call of God on him. And I'm like, okay, he I can link up with him because that's how strong I feel about what God has called me to do. Wow. Remind me again, how old were you when you stood up and answered your call to ministry? Yes, I was 10 years old. 10 years old. You know, that right there is an encouragement to someone listening right now, because we do have a lot of listeners who run camps and programs and trainings. And you do these things. And I think to hear and to see in Living Color the impact all these years later, I mean, that really, that's an encouragement to somebody today. Amen. Amen. So what were some of your first roles in ministry? So I am a starter, and so I will see gaps in places and think, oh, we should do this, and then I'll just kind of start. So oftentimes if it was, and it was also around the areas that I was personally in my own life. So when I had a baby and I was overwhelmed and I needed support, let me start a mom's group with other mothers. And the goal was not to necessarily have this in-depth Bible study, but it was simply, let's just get together and encourage one another and get out of the house and do something different. And then as our kids get into school, then it was around school. And then there was a large homeschool group when we church planted. And so I'm like, let me start something for the children. I'm going to teach them listening prayer. So it As a starter, I would just kind of go from there and whatever the Lord gave me, I would kind of keep praying and put it together and make it happen. Wow. You know, what I'm really struck by is your really early focus on the mission field abroad and afar, but then your realization when you became a mother and later on in life that it's all your mission field. Where you are is your mission field. Wow, that's so beautiful. Now, was there anything about ministry that surprised you once you were in it? I think the increase in intensity of spiritual warfare. You know, you're excited. You're going to win people to Christ. We're going to disciple people. You know, the kingdom's going to come. We're going to do all this cool stuff. But you don't realize how much the minute you step into that, that the enemy just targets you and always, All of your insecurities come up, all of your fears come up, you're incredibly intimidated all of a sudden, you're overwhelmed by things, and the lies of the enemy are just coming from every direction. That really surprised me. Not that I didn't know the enemy was real and that spiritual warfare was real, but it just completely magnified once the role is identified and you have been willing to step in and say, yes, Father, I will do this for you. Does that ever go away? I mean, you've had early experiences in ministry. You had increasingly visible and prominent roles in ministry. I'm just curious how that experience changed for you over time. No, it doesn't go away because the enemy is still going to do whatever he can to get us to, I think, oftentimes just hesitate. Just hesitate, back off. Don't go at it as strongly as you would have. But you also learn to... get a prayer team around you, have people cover you, have personal intercessors for you. You learn to put on your armor every day in a whole new way and stand against the enemy. You know where your weaknesses are, your limitations. And so you kind of work around that to ask for prayer support for people to cover you so that you can really focus and be and do who you are, is what I call it, and what you do. No, it doesn't go away. Yeah, that's good. That's good. Thank you, Wanda. So how did Empower first come into your story? We were at a time in the seminary where I was basically overwhelmed with what I was doing. I had four teenagers. Ron was working at the seminary full time. I was the director of spiritual formation in charge of all chapels, as well as beginning to teach in the area of spiritual formation. And we got a call from the district because a pastor's wife was in a very difficult situation and something tragic had happened. And so the district of our denomination, the Christian Missionary Alliance, asked the seminary, would you create a program for women? The provost came to me and asked me if I would do it. And the thing was, I remember as, you know... You're excited for opportunities when they come, but sometimes the timing of them never seems right because it feels like you're being stretched beyond your capabilities. And I remember talking to Ron. I had been praying and thinking about it and just thinking, I'm overwhelmed. I can't do this right now. And so I was talking to Ron one night and we were praying together and really trying to decide, like, is this the time? And he just kind of looked at me and said, I said, hon, I think I'm going to say no to this. It's too much. I am. I'm too stretched. And he just kind of paused and looked me right in the eye. And he said, honey, if you want to do something for women, now might be the time because they're asking for it. And it just kind of hit me in such a way. And I thought, Lord. And so he kind of went on to what he was doing. And I just turned and sat down and just was weeping. And like, Lord, I did tell you that I would do whatever you wanted me to do. And if you bring the women, I would minister to them. So if this is you and this is the time, I would... you know, I will be willing and I'll put together a team of people, but you'll have to bring everything we need to do it. And, and that was my yes. It was kind of, it was kind of a reluctant yes, but at the same time, um, You know, where people say that God doesn't give you more than you can handle. I disagree. He always gives us more than you can handle so that you know particularly that it's Him and that if it's God-sized, you can't do it because it's too big. And so you need to just follow along, obey, do what He says, show up, and He will be faithful because He's a good person. That's so beautiful. Now, what year was this, Wanda? So that was in 2011. 2011. Okay, so got it. So you have been at the helm of Empower for, gosh, I can do math, 10, 15 years now. Is that right? Yes. So we prayed for a year, put together a team of people, and we prayed for a year, and then we launched in the fall of 2012. So we're just completing our 14th year. Next year is going to be our 15th. And we're going to be going to be going We have been providing and equipping women ever since. Wow, amazing. So when you first stepped into it, what did you think it would look like? And how has that evolved over the last 14 or 15 years? You know, it's a good thing God doesn't show you what's ahead. That's all I can say. When we started, it was simply going to be something that runs from September to May. And we strategically and intentionally chose every topic, when they would learn it, what they would do, the books they would read, the papers they would write, the activities, the mentoring group. So we start September, October, November, once a month. There's teaching and then a class. We started in person. We took the December off because it's too full with Christmas and ministry in general. Then in January, we had a getaway retreat for all the women. And that was powerful. And then February, March and April, back again to the teaching in the classroom. It evolved into a younger woman saying, hey, Wanda, have you thought about live streaming? And I said, Kim, I don't even know what live streaming is, let alone thought of doing it. And she said, well, I'll help you figure that out. So then we started live streaming around the world. And that's why we were instantly able to We had 16 countries, women, missionaries, different workers, women from around the world join. And then from there, we were already live streaming. And then we created sites throughout the country, again, in the world. And so they would go to a particular church and gather and watch the video and then have their mentor groups. But it was causing so much for our team to have to develop those teams and create that, that we... And then during COVID, though, it was fantastic because we were already live streaming. We didn't skip a beat during COVID. We just kept on doing what we were doing. And then... As we went virtual, we just felt like the Lord saying, in order to be sustainable and accessible to women around the world, if we're fully online, they can come from anywhere. And you don't have to have a group of people. You don't have to have other people from your church. You can just come in and get equipped and be developed. And so we're still fully virtual. That is amazing. And yeah. I now have a sense, I think our listeners have a sense for what you do for women, but how do you hope women are equipped coming out of your program? And is it still a September to May program? It's still a September to May, but it was interesting because after the first year, they're like, okay, this is great. Can you do something else? So we created a program, a class for mentor, how to spiritually mentor someone else. So that's the second class. Then they came back the second year and said, oh, this is great. Can you do something else? So we created a class on finding your voice and communication. It's now a straight preaching class for expository or a narrative style of sermon. And after the third one and they came back, oh, yeah, this is great. And we're like, okay, we're stopping at three right now. And that's what we're going to do. But we've also started a new initiative for mothers and daughters just in the last year and a half. We've been piloting for mothers and daughters ages nine to 14 to do retreats with them. Basically, the distinctive is to help the mother disciple her daughter in the things of the spirit. And so it goes after the daughter's physical, emotional, mental, social, spiritual development. We come away, do the teaching together, but then have crafts, activities. The mom goes to a mom group to process. The daughter goes to a daughter group. And then just really bind together. And then we've created resources, girls' journal, mom's journal, other things to support the mother throughout. And continue in her journey in that discipling of her. of her daughter. Wow, that's incredible. So the women who are participating in the mom and daughter ministry, are they women who have been through the Empower equipping or is this a separate group of women? So we have put it out to any woman. So they don't have to have taken Empower. Many of them have. And so it's kind of crossing over. You can come in as a mom and get support. And it's funny because many of the women are from Empower and have taken it. And so they're kind of saying to the women, the moms in the group, you need to take Empower 1. You need to get free. You know, you're 2. Whatever. And so they're kind of encouraging her to step in. So it's kind of come from every direction. But the biggest thing I would say that women leave confident in understanding their identity in Christ, finding out what their spiritual gifts are, and then discovering the place that God wants to step in to their calling. So confidence in who they are, what God has gifted them to do is the number one thing that women walk away with. Yeah. And they're very willing. Women will serve anywhere. And when you look at a church, women are serving, the primary servers in lots of different areas. But if she doesn't know how she is gifted spiritually, she is saying yes to an area of need, but she's not gifted there. So she'll either burn out or get bored or not enjoy it spiritually. And so she really needs to find out where she is gifted because that is fun. You know, you're like excited and you're just doing who you are. You're doing what God has made you for. And so it is work, but it doesn't feel like work. And so then the kingdom, all the places are covered in the workload of the church and everyone is just doing what God has made them to do. Yeah, you're sending women out with confidence, with knowledge, and really equipped. Are you sending them back into their home churches? Are you sending them out to the mission field? What are some of the different ways in which you see women go after their experience with Empower? That has been fun to watch because the way that we even say it in the little announcements at church or little pitches that are given in different places is that we want to train, equip, and release women to advance the kingdom wherever they go. And that means in their home, community, workplace, and church. Yeah. So women have, because we have from every gamut, women that have not completed high school to women that are vice presidents of companies and doctors and lawyers and every realm academically. But what is exciting is that as they step into what God is calling them to do, they're able to be more comfortable with that. And it doesn't feel, again, like work. That's good. Now, Wanda, could you share a story that captures what equipping and empowerment looks like in this work? Sure. Two women come to mind. They both were leaders of district leaders. Okay. They're wives of leaders, excuse me. And, but they were both filled with fear, very paranoid about everything they did, very anxious. And whenever they would lead, you would just feel their anxiety and you're just kind of like, oh my gosh, no, this is scaring me. And, and so, But they wanted to do a good job. They took their responsibility seriously. I'm going to do this well. But they just were breathing fear and anxiety onto everyone else. So they came in to empower. The first class, you know, was... First spiritual formation class is like, this is what we mean by spiritual formation. Then we go into anxiety and fear. And that's the second topic that we cover. And God really met them in such a powerful way and really displaced that fear with His love. By the end of the course, both of those women, totally different. Their husbands came to me and said, I don't know what you teach in that class, but my wife is a different person. She's no longer fearful. She's no longer intimidated. I'll ask her to do things. She doesn't. fight against me. She steps in. And so it's just a beautiful way in which women are willing to do what God has called them to do. We've had women start foundations in Africa, started working with refugees, started companies, started different things because the thing that God put in their heart, they now recognize is Him, not just like I have this grandiose idea. They recognize that's go about doing it and watch him bring every provision that's needed. And so those two women, even now when I see them, I just kind of smile and think, way to go, God, like how you set them free. They're still very strong, powerful leaders, but there's just no anxiety anymore and fear in them as they have really allowed God to show them who they are and walk in that. Wow. Well, when you get to walk with women through such a transformative experience like that, what does that reveal to you about what God is doing with women around the world? Hmm, that's a good question. Hmm. You know, we all are our humanity. I think it just reveals our humanity and our need and desire as daughters to be deeply loved by our Father. Because our identity is established in the security of a Father's love. And so we know that cognitively, we know that theologically, but we live from experiential knowledge. And so we have been burned by people. We have stepped out and gotten hurt by people. We, you know, there's all sorts of things. And so therefore, the walls, the self-protection around our hearts, those kinds of things. But when God really comes in and brings healing to the very core, core of who we are as his beloved daughter. I am loved and nothing can separate me from that love. There is a confidence. There is a certainty. There is an assurance that comes about you that's not pride. It's simply, this is who I am and this is who my father is and this is what he's asked me to do. And so that is, I think, one of the greatest joys is like helping someone recognize God's view of them and that they will actually believe that themselves. Because when they believe that that is who I am, they're unstoppable then in what they actually do for him because they're doing it out of love. Wanda, why do you think the Lord's chosen you for this important work? I think, well, I don't know why He's chosen me other than what I do for other people is what I wish someone had done for me. In every area, whether it's mentoring someone, listening to someone, praying for someone, um... and just kind of being there to encourage them and cheer them on. And so in all of these areas, even that I've developed and created these programs, it's so easy to do. I think that's the other thing. It's so easy. And many years ago, Ron and I both felt like the Lord told us to keep it simple. In ministry, keep it simple. You don't have to use great theological terms and try to wow people with your intelligence or anything else. It's like, bring the kingdom back. And the kingdom is about love and knowing who you are and who your father says you are, and then stepping into your authority and walking in the fullness of your gifts and calling. And so very simply is to simply love people and love them into, again, who they are, and that will change their life. One moment in His presence. One moment in His presence. They need the presence of the Lord. They don't need a pep talk. They don't need, you know, great—they do need understanding, knowledge, good theology, good, you know, understanding the Bible, absolutely. But they need a moment in His presence where they know it's the Father asking them. They say yes to the Father, and that will change the trajectory of their life. Yeah. And again, they're doing it out of intimacy and love, not duty and obligation. That changes everything. Yes. Well, the Lord has filled you with so much love for these women, whether you're talking about them as a group, whether you're talking about the individual stories. It's so clear that you were just overflowing with love for them. And I imagine that's one of the things that keeps you going because 15 years leading a global ministry can't have been easy. What's been the hardest part about leading and sustaining a ministry like this? I think the hardest part is... is simply waiting on the Lord and not rushing ahead. I think it's just showing up and being faithful. Sometimes you feel like after you've been doing something for a while, you need to, okay, we need to make something wowey or sensational or extravagant or big or something like that. And it's like, no, you just need to show up. And make room for God. I think that's the biggest thing. You make room for the Lord to come and you make room for people to experience Him. And that is knowing how to facilitate His presence. I think has been in trying to teach people how to do that because they look at other ministries and other things and like, oh, we need to do that. Like, we need to have a big name worship leader. We need to have a big name speaker. We need to. And it's like, no, no, no. You need to know when Jesus comes in the room. When does the Holy Spirit enter? And now you need to make room for Him and linger there and facilitate His presence of what He wants to do there and invite people into that moment, again, because He's the one that will do the changing, the healing, the setting free, the saving. And you just kind of facilitate that moment. That's the hardest part to teach others. Yeah. Hmm. That's good. That's good. Okay. So we talked about you. We talked about Empower. I want to bring it back to you again. How has Empower shaped you personally? How has it changed your faith? It has caused me to have to wait forever. on the Lord in even greater measures. I don't like to wait. No one likes to wait probably, but I really don't like to wait. Now, I say I don't like to wait, but I am a contemplative. I don't mind sitting in his presence, quietly listening. But I feel like when he gives me something to do, I want to go and get her done. Like I'm a get her done person, right? I love building a team. I love setting a goal. I like strategizing. And then we're going to act. We're going to work hard. We're going to move. We're going to do what he's asked us to do. Honestly, Alicia, in this season, in the last... year, the Lord has had me go at such a slow pace. I feel like I have missed something royally here because we're going so slowly. And even in the last, even more recent months of just waiting on Him, I don't see what we're supposed to do next. I don't, I'm not hearing for the further view. And so... really being faithful to show up and do the little things, the things that are right in front of you. And that's been really hard, actually. And so I'm trusting him to show us at the right time. I feel like it's a timing issue. He is bringing pieces together. I keep seeing a chessboard. And so I think there's people. There are people that are part of that chessboard. I think there's also partnerships and donors and other people who aren't even here yet that he is bringing to the table. And so I have to wait for them in order to, and not just go ahead, you know, make your plan and go for it. No, I have learned you cannot... outwork him. And it doesn't work to go ahead. It's his plan, his pace, his race, his way. So just enjoy where you are, be faithful in where you are, keep showing up and make room for him. And when the time is right, he will break through and show you the next thing. That is a good word. It is a good word for me. So much of what you said resonates with me as someone who's trying to build something in the ministry world, and I know a lot of our listeners are as well. So, Wanda, Empower isn't the only ministry that you're leading. Tell me about some of the other projects that you're working on. So as I mentioned, Emerge is one of those. It is within Empower, but for the mothers and daughters, but I'm also on the board for a women's development track. That's what it's called. And it is a ministry that also develops women that actually a woman that used to serve on my leadership team. Now she is the executive director of this. She's been a missionary in Kosovo for many years. And that ministry develops women. missionaries who are on the field who have been there for 10 years or less. And so she is now leading that, asked me to be a part of her board, and I am thrilled to be able to mentor women. And again, we're partnering collaboration. I think collaboration is another part of what the Lord is doing around the world. And so collaboration, You know, when you get the very specific of what God wants you to do, it's easy to just kind of stay in your lane and go. But there is something about partnering and working with other organizations and groups that are doing the same thing, especially, I believe, from different streams. As long as it's spirit people and we're like bathed in prayer and praying. There's something very powerful in our unity as we surrender to one another. Yeah, we probably could do it ourselves, but it's more fun, I think, even to do it with other people in the kingdom because you learn so much from other viewpoints and perspectives and ways of doing things. And I think that's important to the father to watch his children. Yeah. pause to look to him and to look to one another and see what he's doing and do that together and use our resource, lend our resources to really advance the kingdom in even greater measure. I think that's another good word. I think we're in a moment right now where more than ever leaders in ministry are realizing the importance of collaboration, like you said, of cooperation, of community, of doing it together. It is more fun. And I think that acting together and really seeking unity together, I think, is really important to the heart of the Father. So speaking of children and grandchildren, you are married. You've mentioned Ron several times. That's your husband. And you've got adult children and you've got many grandchildren. You're getting ready to run your annual grandparents camp. You've alluded to this already, but can you tell us how has your ministry evolved as you've gone through these different seasons of life? You know, it's interesting. My youngest daughter is 33, will turn 33. Am I getting that correct? Yes, she'll turn 33 in September. And we were talking about something and said something about a career woman. And I'm like, yeah, I don't, you know, some people are career women, you know, and she goes, what are you talking about? You are the quintessential career woman. And I said, no, I'm not. And she goes, yes, you are. How could you say you're not a career woman? And I thought about it, and for a moment I thought, well, I guess from someone else's perspective, because when I started and then as I continued to get a master's and then a doctorate, but I did that in order to teach because I felt like the Lord asked me to. So for me, it wasn't like, I'm going to be a woman in ministry, and I'm going to start a ministry and lead a nonprofit. It was never like I'm going to do these things and then set out to do them. For me, it's always been about obedience. The Lord asked me to do this. I said yes to Him, and this is what I did. And so I've never really thought of it as a career. It's simple obedience to the Father and to do what He's asked me to do. So that's been interesting because I can look back even when we first started in our church in Connecticut. Ron took a small church, and I had to graduate with an elementary ed degree. And then I got a job for the Connecticut public school system writing reading curriculum. I wanted to be a teacher. I didn't want to go to an office and write curriculum. But I didn't know that by doing that for two years, I would eventually homeschool our kids and then develop a college course for all students that would be required to take when they entered college and then create seminary courses and then create Empower. So nothing that God calls us to do is ever wasted. Yeah. But I believe it is a matter of obedience because we won't see how 20 years down the road, or even three, five, or 10 years down the road, how invaluable this is going to be. But if you don't step into that moment because it, you know, you're going off by yourself and being sheltered and no one sees and it is boring and I don't like it, you will miss what God has for you out there because it, it, he wanted, he wants you to become that person. And every step along the way in how you give yourself to Him will get you there as you are faithful and obedient to follow. That's good. That's really good. Thank you for that, Wanda. So looking ahead, what are you most hopeful about for the future of Empowering? I am most hopeful that God is going to open it up for us to not just minister to women, but also to men, that brothers and sisters together because, you know, we created it for women because we were asked to create it for women. And at the time, 14 years ago, there weren't a lot of things offered just for women, especially in leadership development. Now, it's interesting because there's a lot of projection and accusation of you're just trying to get women ordained and you're just trying to women take over and you're just trying to have women push aside men. And honestly, people have been turned off by our name in power. Oh, that's feminist. Oh, that's, you know, you know, you guys are really whatever. And honestly, when we were first coming together as a team to decide what we would call this, We were writing on a white board and someone threw out the word empower. I'm like, oh, that sounds too feminist. We'll be accused of all sorts of stuff. Like, no, let's not do that. So we went on and came up with other names. circled back to empower. And we're like, wait a minute, the Holy Spirit is the one who trains, equips, and releases, and empowers us for service. He convicts us in, guides us into truth, reminds us of what Jesus has done, but He's the one who empowers us. Why wouldn't we call it empower, you know? And so that's how our name came about. But truly, there have been people I guess, free for women to empower them to be who God has called them to be. There's an assumption that to be empowered as a woman, you will therefore, I guess, not be a good wife, mother. And... friend or leader or that there's other things going on there. So that's kind of been an interesting thing that's, again, very surprising to me, that people would not want their daughters equipped, that she may only stay in this frame because In my father's house, there's a place for me. And everyone gets to play in the kingdom because all hands on deck are needed to advance the kingdom and bring back the king. So that's important. And I'm not going to apologize for that anymore. Well, and it goes back to what we were saying about what God is doing with more cooperation and collaboration in the church. I think that when we do that, we learn more about one another's hearts and our motivations and can really better understand the things that we may be fearful of. Yes, yes. I want to tell you a funny story about the tag name. So we were, I told you the story about how we got in power. And then we said, all right, we need a tagline, right? And so this young girl, too small, she was probably like 27. She goes, we need to say equipping women worldwide. And I'm like, oh my gosh, that sounds so like prideful and so big and so vast, you know? And she's like, no, Wanda, we are right now. We're right in New York City. Like the nations of the world are here and we are going to equip the world by reaching New York City. So it's not too much to say equipping women worldwide. And so I'm like, OK, so that's our tagline, equipping women worldwide. But again, as we started, the same young lady who said we should live stream and instantly we had 16 countries from around the world coming in to take in power. So. And again, multi-generational teams are needed for those perspectives that move the kingdom and move us along to dare to do things that we wouldn't normally do. You know, we need the zeal of the youth. We need the wisdom of the old. And we need the courage of everyone to dare to step in and take risks to bring the kingdom. Yeah. So good. And it sounds like the Empower team has benefited from just that. Leaders from different generations, different voices that have brought a lot of creativity, a lot of vision around what God gave you to do, what the assignment was. Okay, we're about at time. And so I want to leave it with this final question, Wanda, which is... If you could speak to someone now who feels called but unsure of where they fit, what would you want them to hear, Wanda? I think I would say keep preparing and keep giving yourself to the Lord and keep stepping into places where you are trained and equipped to really learn how to walk in the Spirit and to really find out who you are as a cherished daughter of the King. in your identity gifts and calling, because that is foundational. And whether you know how to do the skill, but I think you also dare to say what the desires of your heart are, because I do believe that God gives us the desires of our heart. But we don't, we're sometimes afraid that my desire is too selfish or too, um, too big or too much about me, and so we don't dare to say what that is. But the Lord wants us to ask because He's a God who loves to say yes. One quick story. Years ago when we had planted our church in California, the pastor wanted me to come on staff as the director of women's ministry. I, Ron and I prayed and I felt like it wasn't time. I had a 14 month old and wanted to have more kids and wanted to be a stay at home mom for a time. And so we went back and told him no. He kind of was a little harsh with my husband on in some areas because he was like, you're holding her back. She has a call of God on her life. There's anointing on her and you're, you know, you're, you're holding her back. And he's like, I'm not holding her back. You know, we agreed. We fell together that God was saying this. And, um, And so, and the next day I found out I was pregnant with our second child. So we definitely weren't wrong. But the day that they announced another director of women's ministry, they were bringing her into the church. I did feel a little bit of sadness, like, oh, bummer, you know, that could have been me. I would have loved to do that, you know, maybe someday. And so the, the, I felt like the spirit of the Lord came around me to hug me from behind. And in my ear whispered, ask me for the nations. And I'm like, huh, ask me for the nations. And I'm like, well, that isn't Psalm 2, you know, ask of me and I'll give the nations as your inheritance. And so as I was sitting there, I was like, okay, in my heart, I'm just saying, Lord, will you give me the nations? And that was it, never thought of it again. Fast forward 15 years, and I was sitting at my kitchen table, the Empower team was around, and I looked around, and there were women from many different nationalities and different countries. We were talking about how we were going to reach the nations of the world. And the Lord brought that picture back to me. And I could see myself sitting in church in that spot when he came up behind me and said, ask me for the nations. And he said to me that day, 15 years later, he said, I told you to ask me for the nations because I was already going to give them to you. And again, it made me realize how good our Father is, that if you will trust him, And if you will believe in who He says you are and what He wants you to do, He already has a plan that is good to win people to Him, to set them free, to heal the sick, to cast out demons, to raise it. He already, that is His heart. And if we simply just do what He's asking, He's already going to say yes. And so I think we women need to just step into that. Trust him. You don't see how or where he's going to get you where you are, but you heard him and you know he's drawing you. So step into that moment. Prepare yourself. Study, learn, grow. And at the appointed time, just like Elisha. was in his field plowing, but God knew where he was. Elijah knew where he was and said, go get him. Now's the time. And boom, he's now set up as the next prophet for Israel. So God knows that for us too. And we need to be faithful. Young mothers, Your fertile ground of growing is in that very place with your children. I still personally do think it's one of the hardest jobs in the world and that God is preparing you for the more that He has as you love and care for your children where nobody else sees. And it's not in vain. Nothing is in vain in following and serving the Lord. Wow. Thank you, Wanda, for blessing me, blessing our listeners with your testimony and with your encouragement. What a beautiful note to leave this conversation on. I can't wait to continue to follow along in your story. It's just so beautiful how God has used you and shaped you through all these different seasons, and I sense that the best Thank you, Alicia. It's been great. Thank you, Manda.