A Network of Networks - Daria Nardozza

I was thought I'd go back. It was just one year I told my parents I was going to go back and I was going to be a business person and go you know I didn't never envision myself in ministry at all and I remember feeling like that kind of feel called to this but like what does that look like and working through that actually with the director of the school then I did I I proceeded I did my undergrad in religious education and counseling psychology thinking how to be a therapist actually got a lot of interesting way of changing that one. Welcome to Faithly Stories the podcast that brings you inspiring tales from conversations with church leaders as they navigate the peaks and valleys of their faith journeys through their ministry work and everyday life join us as we delve into their challenges moments of encouragement and answered prayers the Faithly Stories podcast is brought to you by Faithly an online community committed to empowering church leaders pastors staff and volunteers learn more at Faithly.co get ready to be uplifted and inspired as we unveil the heart of faith through stories from the front lines of ministry on the Faithly Stories podcast Daria Narzozo welcome to Faithly Stories yeah great so great to be here and so great to be in New York and be with you in real life finally yes yes there is something about real life still that makes a difference oh yeah um so it's great to have you um you are the co-founder of city leaders collective um which you co-founded about a year and a half ago um but in a lot of ways you've been building towards this for over two decades yeah um so maybe we could start from the beginning to start with um your personal journey and how that sparked this passion for community and leadership and transforming cities yeah so um I was born and raised in Montreal Quebec Canada um my parents my mom was from Toronto um at my dad who was a Ukrainian immigrant to Montreal his parents immigrated um and my my my mom was from a Christian family but very conservative Christian family and uh her her um father actually really struggled with post-war mental illness and it was just a really not healthy home and she escaped Toronto to pursue my dad in Montreal um and they then had four kids I'm number two um but my dad also um like many um many people coming from Ukraine uh his father and actually five generations back we discovered struggled with anxiety depression and alcoholism and so grew up in a very um hard family abusive a lot of addiction a lot of food and security um actually on the outside we looked like we kind of had it all together but on the inside it was um a tough place to be um but when I was around between ten and twelve my parents separated which I actually think was a really good thing for our family and then I got divorced and in those years my mom uh shipped us to my grandparents house uh in the misco guys and we we went to bible camp and that's really where my siblings and I first learned about god and faith and um but then we go back home to Montreal it was just sort of this like hard setting again um and then you know we'll go back and see my grandparents which was about six hours away um and so my grandmother really had a big influence on my face journey but it was really only when I was sixteen I think um that I uh I was like struggling as a teenage girl like a fatherless many of the struggles teen fatherless teenage girls have and um started clubbing when I was about thirteen and kind of just got into the wrong scene as a teenager and when I was sixteen kind of realized there's got to be more to life than this and I think god was just pursuing me and I went to work at a Christian camp and it was really actually that summer I still made some bad choices but it was at the end of that summer that I was like if I'm doing this I'm doing it and uh that was in September of 2009 that I started to follow Jesus and it was a pretty huge 180 in my in my life and um and it was a bit of a shocker to my family um when I was seventeen I went away to bible school um just to try to figure out who god was and um me out of my parents really did not want me to do that um so I saved all my money and did it on my own and um that that experience at bible college owned to a really small outdoor extreme sport bible school with only forty students and those couple years really shaped my face um you know learn to pray learned who Jesus was I actually showed up in bible school not knowing the difference between the old and the new testament or you know teachers would say y'all know the story of Jonah I'd say no I don't know the story of Jonah I could you teach me um so yeah I really felt like I I showed up knowing nothing but so eager to figure out who god was and um and yeah so that was sort of my early faith journey wow what a journey and all of that in the first seventeen years um so we are about seventy episodes into this podcast um we interview all kinds of ministry leaders and we hear about their faith journeys and their cult and ministry and one of the themes that has emerged it's not everybody's story but you'd be astounded I've been astounded how many people's stories have been stories of fatherlessness and how the lord has redeemed that and has called those um into ministry um it's been a really powerful theme to observe um I'm curious at this bible school for it's with extreme sports how did that fit into the picture how did that fit into the education yeah I know so we do we do like one week of ice climbing and then like one week of new testament survey um and then we'd have some reading weeks and it was on modularly down in weed they'd bring in professors uh to teach like the one week modular course um but then we all live together in community as well on a beautiful lake so yeah it was it was a great experience um so was it there that you felt this call in two ministry um yeah um it was probably my second year there that I was like struggling with because I always thought I'd go back it was just one year I told my parents I was gonna go back and I was gonna be a business person and go you know I didn't never envision myself in ministry at all and I remember feeling like that got to feel called to this but like what does that look like and um working through that actually with the director of the school then actually how did I did I proceed I did my undergrad in religious education and counseling psychology thinking I would be a therapist actually um and then yeah I got how to an interesting way of changing that one but actually when I was doing my graduate work um I had a hard church experience I kind of left the church that I was at and I was working at a supper club and I had this vision of um making money in the cell because you make pretty good money working in the supper club downtown Montreal and then like working with um sex workers by day and like building those relationships and uh one one day I was serving in the supper club and there's actually a like an Italian baptism there and um the priest got up to like give the blessing and I don't hear God's voice every day in my life I've heard it a few times but one of the times I heard God's voice so clearly to me was him saying to me in that moment I want you to represent the church the way this priest represents the church to these people and I was like I was very confused by that because I was like first of all I'm not Catholic second of all I can't be a priest third of all can women even lead in the church um and how does that look like um and so but I also felt like God has really called me to to be the voice of the church um in Quebec and in in the work I do Quebec's a very uh there's not many Christians in Quebec and so um so yeah that was sort of my my call back to church ministry wow um so um when I look at your path and look at other things that you've done to me it's so clear that you're in ministry and then you have been working to this place um of calling church leaders and city leaders together um but have you ever worked in a church yeah yeah I worked in a few churches actually and then um and then I in 2016 helped shape the West Island network which was a network of churches working together for the good of the community um and that's when I actually really felt like okay that you know that God's voice to me in the restaurant with the priest I was like this is how God wants me to be the be the church to the community um and and so I would show up at community round table meetings and say you know hi I'm Daria from the West Island Network network of churches working together for the good of the community and they would look at me like we did know that the church cared about the community or you know like so happy to be to see someone from the church because there so many community organizations have been trying to figure that out and so um my role which I did for about five years with the West Island network was that was really bringing the churches together um and helping them understand the needs of the community and what's happening in the community and then going out and representing the church to the community and some meeting with the different mayors and different um you know understanding what the priorities were and um you know facilitating our poverty reduction and social inclusion roundtable in our community and doing stuff like that but doing on behalf of the church um and then and then trying to take what I learned and um help the churches better engage together wow um and so it seems to me like you've been doing some version of that some flavor of flavor of that in each of the organizations that you've represented yeah um like 24-7 pair of Canada for example tell me a little bit more about that yeah 24-7 really shaped my um that was actually the organization that I contextualized my graduate work with um so I did my graduate work in global urban ministry or leadership and uh really contextualize that around prayer mission justice and unity in cities across Canada Canada is a very urban country about 82% of our population lives in a city where the global average is around 57% so may have many people in Canada live in and around cities and um and so um so yeah so we did a lot of yeah prayer how do we how does our prayer life fuel um mission injustice and how does mission injustice and you know priorities we see really inform how we pray for our communities um so I I was I led 24-7 per Canada for a while I worked with 24-7 international they're an amazing organization um that are doing great things around yeah prayer mission injustice well um so there were some other stops along the way some other ministries and organizations who were involved in um and it brought you to this place where you launched city collective sorry city leaders collective um not too long ago um what motivated you and your co-founders to start it yeah I think um well when I started my doctorate work people kept saying to me do you know Eric Swanson so I said no I don't so I finally met Eric Swanson and Eric Swanson's a great man and um he for many years probably at least 20 has been convening city network leaders in the U.S and for the last five years I've been doing that in Canada um and then Rob has um Rob and Eric were very good friends they've been good friends for I think 10-15 years and Eric was a mentor Rob uh Rob uh leads four Charlotte it was a is a founder of four Charlotte um a city network there and so um we just all kind of uh you know had this heart for helping support um had catalyzed city network leaders in their work and so uh they you know Eric was naturally doing it in the U.S I was naturally doing it in Canada and it was like how do we do this better together and how do we like do this more in a more sustainable way that would um live on um and help support cities really starting in North America but um globally eventually one day as well well so um can you give me a few examples of who a lid a city leader catalyst might be yeah um we've talked about some people you've worked with in New York but what types of organizations what type what types of people yeah so I mean the West Island network would be you know it was I actually thought I invented this idea of of a city network until I started to discover other ones across Canada and and then discovering that God is actually doing something in cities it's not you know he's calling people to this work and to to bring people together um and so we've actually found uh just over well yeah we're now working on just over 100 cities in North America and it's not to say we started it we didn't start it we found them and and we've been you know trying to do things to serve and support these cities and actually a couple years ago Rob almost a couple years ago Rob and I did a survey of 58 city networks in I think seven countries mostly in Canada and the U.S but just to try to figure out like what is God doing like how do these people start these networks how do they fund them what what do they do like what does that look like who do they work with what types of leaders are they how do they um how do they do this work of of bringing people together for the good of their city um and so we we we really discovered that there's um these people are very apostolic and entrepreneurial leaders and there's not much method to the madness um and uh I mean obviously there's some some things we've discovered that are common but how do we um you know especially because God is not stopping this like he like there's so many people that are trying to figure out how to do this and so how do we take what we've all learned and um help those who are also trying to start something um so we um through this project we you know we'd say we do three things that city leaders collective um we have created uh content and tools not cure we've curated and are starting to create content and tools and so we have a toolbox um for any city network leader who is doing that or wants to start a city network so we have we say we've helped we're helping them pay the dumbtacks so we've given them all the potential tools and they're yeah they're we've found what what others have used um and so and then we coach um we have a coaching program uh we have currently 32 cities in our coaching cohort right now um and then we create community um because we realize like we really need friends for the journey in this work and we can't do it um yeah it's just so helpful to have the support of other city network leaders and to learn from each other so we we just really create that that space for community right um there's so much in what you just said that i want to unpack first i want to go back to a really awesome comment you made um where you said i thought i invented this like city network thing i think when you are apostolic and you are entrepreneurial and you're starting new things and you discover that others are doing the same thing i think there can be almost this um temptation to be like oh i didn't start i don't have the unique idea but i think those of us doing it in the kingdom hopefully we get to a place where it's like i actually know that's confirmation the board rarely calls one to do but calls many right and you guys are bringing it together which is really cool trying to yeah yeah and trying to learn like but that's and that's the other cool thing about what you said you guys are doing which is you're learning from from the networks that you've found and then you've connected into and hopefully that learning can then be pushed back out right to all the leaders that you're working with yeah um give me a few examples of the cities that you're currently working with oh yeah i mean there's about 20 in Canada um 60 in the US so there's a lot all the way from New York to the bay areas to California to um orange county um yeah so all down the west coast east like right you know florida columbus and it's a new thing we want to we want to be in the biggest cities or is it like here's who we happen to know people here's who's coming to us oh yeah no it's not we're not trying to be anywhere we're just existing and people find us and um and it's really friends like these are people we've been journeying with and it's all started i mean especially for me in Canada it's like oh this i just found a network i've reached out to them hey i'm trying to do this like let's learn from each other and that's that's really how it's all started and Eric very very catalyptically in the US um has been just convening these people so they know each other a lot of them yeah um and then when they show up for the first time they just feel like oh these are my people like this is this is like my my yeah my tribe by who you know who i can learn from and grow with and so um so yeah many many cities and we we talk about one of our core values being a platformed ecosystem and so when we get together or even when we do our monthly zoom calls we're all we're all learning we're all serving we're all teaching we're all um you know we want to be it's not about me or rob or Eric being the the great leader and teaching everyone it's we really like we really learned from everybody and um we're here i'm here to learn as well and and grow um that's really cool um so tell me a little bit more about the coaching that you offer to folks in your collective um what is it does it go into perpetuity or do people join sort of cohorts or sections and what are some of the things that they're getting coached on yeah so we're really we're in cohort three and uh we're figuring you know we actually just put it all into a learning platform which we're sort of doing as we we're we're building the plane while it's flying um and uh and so it's 12 months and it's they beat once we meet once a month but we're trying to figure out you know especially for network leaders starting out do we do this um biweekly you know in our next cohort we've always done it monthly but without my change and uh and so we use this tree very framework um and it's we intentionally use an agricultural um metaphor of the coach for the coaching because as a network leader we're that you it's not linear we're always it's changing adopting growing and and so um different parts of the tree would be like um soil for example is like how do you know the context and ecosystem of your city and so we'll you know talk about community exegesis and how do you how do you do that and the trunk like how do you set up like the operations or infrastructure for for a flourishing city network or like the fruit and crown you know is like what's what what fruit or what you know how do you do community engagement or how do you you know what comes out of it so we so there's you know it's all agricultural metaphors for um what we connected to and there's 12 so we've just made it into 12 months and of course it keeps adapting and warping and growing as we grow as well um you mentioned there's a community aspect of what you're building um what does that look like um yeah so we do a monthly zoom call um we also have started uh doing like we're trying to figure out regional calls as well because the monthly all calls is really welcome to anyone and everyone any even someone who's trying to learn about you know what it you know thinking about starting a city network like anyone could just join that um or anyone who just wants to learn like what is this what's going on um really anyone's welcome to join and it's a bit content heavy um so we also want to create more regional space for relationships so in Canada I also host a call just for Canadian and it's just city network leaders and we really just talk about the deeper stuff and pray for each other um so very relationally focused um and then we meet together at least once a year we're trying to figure out regional also but um yeah we we meet together in person once a year as well and then Rob and Eric and I travel quite a bit to just connect with cities and um even other city network leaders go and connect with other cities like we we want we actually just have a survey actually on the density of our network um because we just want to encourage um more density more people more network leaders connecting with each other without you know city leaders collective needing to be um even part of that right would it be fair to say that you're a network of network yes that's exactly how we would describe ourselves yeah I don't know that I've encountered that in the ministry space um are there is there anyone else trying to do that um I don't know I don't think so I mean I so we started building faithfully about three years ago and um because we're building technology to help ministries and networks and pastors we've encountered a lot of what's down there and I think this is the first time I'm hearing of a network of networks um and the analogy that immediately comes to mind for me coming from 20 years on ball street is um uh the investment firm landscape sort of reached a point of maturity when there weren't just investment funds like hedge funds and um mutual funds but there came to be fund of funds where um investors could actually invest in like a number of different funds at once and there's something really powerful about that structure anyway um having a network of network seems like something that has been missing for a long time yeah yeah and we we haven't seen anyone really doing this with in the city network space like it seemed like it was needed which is yeah where we were all kind of like well let's do this well so talk to me about eligibility is an intratidominational it like what are what are some of the criteria that you look for are there criteria yeah I mean uh denominational we uh we would say nicely and greet is the best thing to use and um of course we can't uh from our survey every single one of the networks we have worked with there is evangelical representation in it in a hundred percent of them um but we really encourage uh people in cities to work with the whole church so Catholic Orthodox mainline all the denominations is what we would and it doesn't mean you have to agree with everything um but how do you how do you um live out the unity Jesus prayed for without feeling like you you don't need to look alike but um yeah we would still encourage that level of unity um so yeah we we really are just there to support anyone who wants to start a city network um we we have a framework which is sort of our external vision framework that we would talk about called the four greats framework and so um if you want to see what we'd say is transformed or flourishing lives in communities or cities if that's like the middle of the venn diagram we do that through um and this is something that I wish I had when I was starting a city network because I was like how do I do this um we do that through the four greats and so um the great commandment love god and love your neighbor as yourself the great compassion uh which is serving the least of these and we you know see compassion and and serving talked about over two thousand times in the bible and so how do we serve our communities and how do we even have a posture of service in this role as a city network leader um the great commission go and make disciples um you know we want to see evangelism happen and we want to see churches planted and we want we we want that to be part of what a city network leader is thinking about um and then the great collaboration and how do we how do you do that together in the city um and so quite often we what we've learned is that most cities start by one of those three um collaborating around one of those three greats um but then how do you go from just praying together to serving together and and um which naturally I think leads to evangelism but uh doing evangelism together and or you know for those who start out of a you know a service project or a cause that they're working towards together and they're say be well how do you also be praying together and um and and doing evangelism together as well or or you know so so we want we want to see a holistic you know holistic four greets lived out in every city four greets I love that um now for some of our listeners who may be encountering some of these networks and these ideas for the first time um I imagine some of them must be thinking well this is so great like of course everyone wants to be involved in this but as a practitioner um I imagine using counter challenges that there are some people who don't want to be a part of this what are some of the reasons why they might not want to um psychologically some people um whether it's far left or far right um struggle with anything that's in the middle uh so I think those people self-select out and that's okay um I went I would say to a network leader don't let that discourage you there's still a lot of people in your city that want to work together um so yeah that's that's definitely tough um yeah I think yeah maybe some people just being afraid you know what does that mean or uh I mean I think two real thing to you I see this especially in Quebec where I live is pastors that just don't have time you know a lot of them are bivocational um and and you know are struggling to just like keep their church going let alone try to meet with other pastors like you know when when they're just trying to get through the day yeah um so I you know I feel that pain too of of some pastors you just like don't feel like they don't have time for greater collaboration yeah that makes sense um so um I think you mentioned you're pursuing your PhD and transformational leadership um how far along are you in that I actually just calculated it last week I'm almost halfway okay yeah almost halfway is a very optimistic look at yeah that's great now has has your um academic work has that informed your hands on work or the other way around or both yeah um like I'm I'm doing my graduate work at Bockey graduate university and I just love how they have um they just let you contextualize all your work to your work and um all your school work to your your real life work and um and so yeah it's it really helps it's like any research I've done has been through my classes that really helped me do the work I do and um so it's yeah they're very very completely connected and you you have a master as an urban leadership um how does it work in graduate programs do you already know when you're doing your masters that you're going to be pursuing your PhD later or is that do we do take it step by step no yeah I finished my graduate work in 2010 and had no plans of going back I thought I was done until I had a a dream where God was like no you should do your doctoral work um yeah very I I really I'm so glad God didn't give me back yeah well he might still um yeah I I really did not plan to go back um but I mean I always thought maybe one day um when my son was a bit older then my son got a bit older and I was like no I'm good um but then uh yeah I just had this really profound dream and I woke up at three in the morning and wrote it down and I was like I started praying through it and uh just I just felt like it was something I needed to do so I'm really not a rush to do it it's very okay God I'm doing this in obedience yeah and um and yeah it's it's been really great though yeah so almost halfway through does that mean that you've started to think about your dissertation or is that somewhere down the line still I've I've thought about it yeah I still don't know what exactly will be when I I have a few thoughts on it okay I can't wait to find out yeah well so speaking of your son um you're married um you're actually here in the city um this week with your husband um you have a son um do you have any practical tips for others who may be on a similar journey to you where um you have big dreams and you have a lot of responsibilities at home and in the workplace um what are some things you've learned along the way that help you to do all of those things yeah well for one I have a very supportive husband um so and he he's always like he you know he always wanted to get married and have kids and so um yeah being a great father has always been his and he has a great father who you know they're both teachers and so my husband came a teacher so he could have his summers off with his kids and so um yeah having a husband who just loves being a dad and is an amazing dad and very hands-on dad has been a real gift and so we very much co like do everything together um so uh and actually he might even be the better parent or more present parent right now I should say I was very the very present parents the first five years um and he he does a bit more in terms of driving your son to school and that sort of thing so he spends a bit more time with him but we you know we we really do things together and um and and do things really well together and so that has been really good I try to invite my family my husband and my son into what I do um it's just so they don't feel so disconnected from it and um every night my son and I pray and uh you know if we're if I'm traveling or speaking somewhere you know he's all you know he'll he'll pray for the people that I'm speaking to and uh or you know I just I just try to invite him into the this work as well I mean he's 10 so um he's still young but um I just try to include them and if if ever I travel and they could come with me I try to do that too um just because I I want them to be part of it as well yeah of course um all right last question for you um you guys are a year and a half into building um so you're really you've you've barely scratched the surface right there's um a big vision and um a lot ahead of you um if there are leaders listening to those who really want to get in at the ground level of what you're doing um how can they track with you and how can they get involved yeah good question um I so as you know we're a year and a half and so we're still figuring out a lot but I think that we've we've decided on the name of something called engagement partners so we have um city partners who would be our city network leaders um and their team and then we have engagement partners who would really be those organizations who are helping a city network leader do one of the four greats really well um and so or like a tool that is provided to a city network leader um that is helping them you know whether that's a tool like faithfully um or care portal or whatever that is or it's alpha who's helping or the Luis Paul out of association who's helping those are engagement partners yeah so wait just to use New York as an example um to help bring it to life a little bit so a city network might be redeemer city to city um or it might be for NYC yeah and then a city partner sorry engagement partner would be one of these like hope for New York care portal one of those organizations yeah doing one of the specific things exactly yeah yeah um you know or yeah whatever that is that they're helping them do maybe it's a global leadership summit that's helping them train leaders maybe it's like but you know they they generally fall into one of those four greats and um and you know we would say that the four greats is like an operating system and so an operating system needs to put apps on it you know and those apps need to like work together and so the network leaders really helping um you know helping these apps work together for for good and so we need the apps you know we need the engagement partners yeah um that are gonna that are gonna that then a network leader will will use to really help see their city flourish and so so that's sort of I think how we're seeing it is like the city partners are then city engagement partners um and that's the ecosystem that we want to build to help see cities flourish so how can someone get involved well if they want to start a city network or join one they could find one on our website or if there's if if there's nothing going on in their city and they want to help catalyze that happening we would love to help them um and if they're like an engagement partner well we're we're figuring that out so be our friend uh well that's super exciting um thank you so much Daria this has been a really interesting conversation I love what you're doing and can't wait to continue to follow along yeah yeah thanks and thanks for all you that you're doing to bring people together as well it's important we need tools and uh and uh technology to help advance this as well thank you thank you for tuning in to the Faithly Stories podcast we pray this episode gave you the encouragement you needed to continue on your journey the Faithly Stories podcast is brought to you by Faithly an online community committed to empowering church leaders pastors staff and volunteers the Faithly Digital Platform offers innovative and practical tools and resources to enhance connection foster collaboration and promote growth within the church and ministry space remember to subscribe rate and review our podcast to help reach more listeners like you stay tuned for more uplifting tales from the front lines of ministry on the Faithly podcast stay bold stay faithful and never underestimate the power of your own story