A Prepared Vessel - Apostle Brandon Clack & Pastor Dan Underhill | Masterclass Episode 3

So you asked the question, how do you train up and lead the next generation? I think it's important that you let that generation have a voice. This idea that every Sunday we can guarantee that God's going to meet us in the 45 minute presentation, ladies and gentlemen, it is just not how it works in the sacred narrative. How do you give you a heart for such a specific place? And then to really see the stats and to really say, we want to make change and it's possible. You know, the hardest part in leading change is not where you leave and it's not when you get there is that spot in the middle to sometimes in your weakness, foolishness, not getting it. God's like, he just does it anyway. If there's a core issue in my faith and I can't see God right and I'll demand he does for me quickly, what my character can only handle slowly. How do you know what you're speaking into until you hear where they're coming from? I have to see that proper rest and replenishment wasn't in the way. It was the way. I will borrow from what's on the inside of you and bring it out. So the quality goes in before the song comes out. Humility is this acceptance of who you really are, who God really is, that puts you in a posture to encounter God in a genuine and authentic way. Welcome to Voices from the Masterclass, a special faithfully podcast series brought to you by Faithly, preaching Masterclass and leading leaders collective. Here with Faithly's stories, live from the preaching Masterclass and it has been absolutely an incredible two and a half days. Can I introduce my guest co-host today, Pastor Dan Underhill, Pastor's Cornerstone Church, ATX, Austin, Texas, say what's up to the group? Well, I'm so thankful to be here. Thank you for having me and it's an honor to be in the room with this many masters at their craft for sure. It has been life changing. Pastor Brandon Clack. You've got your name on your sweater, bro, I mean, like you got your own gear, that's another love. It's actually a masterclass hoodie, right? Yeah, it is. They gave it a masterclass. How did I just like record 15 podcasts behind the scenes and didn't get in a wardrobe and you got wardrobe walking in the door, man? There was nothing. Yes. Pastor Brandon, say what's up to the audience, man. I'm so excited to be with you all. What a great opportunity to just encourage leaders and be a part of this, in my opinion, is legendary conference. I'm enjoying everything about masterclass. Pastor Brandon, you are preaching all over the place at this point. Why is making preaching masterclass a priority for you to be in the room and then be on the lineup in 2026? Yeah, that's a great question. I think that preaching the gospel of Jesus Christ in my humble estimation is a bridge of grace. I think Jesus uses the preacher to further reveal himself, not just to the congregant, but to those that are lost. So what better place if the foolishness of preaching is still on God's heart than to come in to be equipped and sharpened in a safe environment where you don't have to worry about fumbling around in a clumsy way? You know, sometimes preachers as they're finding their voice to get a little clumsy. But here at the preaching masterclass, you get a front row seat, not just to the sermon, but to the mindset behind it. What a brilliant concept. I picked it out a little bit because the next year's 30 years of ministry for me, I've been on a lot of conferences. There's something different about this. You know, I mean, I'll wake up pretty motivated in the morning, pretty excited to go do what God's calling me to do. This seems to be like, in addition to that, they're handing you the tools, the framework to implement and do the things God's called us to do. Like what's making this so special, because it feels different. For sure, you know, the overarching concept that I've observed is preacher gets up in ministers and instead of running to the green room, he double backs on stage, sits down on carpet, chair, and a conversation to unpack mentality. How did you do that? Where did you see that? What does your outline feel like? And so the preacher gets to show you how and then tell you why. Yes. I mean, to me, if that was all that was going on, wonderful. Price of admission. But then I got this long spreadsheet that showed me how to implement a year-long sermon series. Yes, right. Talks about plugging in the speakers. It shows the staff retreat. You know, Pastor Ricky just, he gave us gold. No, he did. He really did. Pastor Ricky, shout out to him. Yeah. So whether you are a senior pastor or a youth pastor, if you have any ambition to preach to gospel, if I sit you in the street and you don't go to master class, we got square up. Exactly. Yeah, no, it is definitely something. I mean, he literally, the systems and structures was imperative to the audience. And when I think about my background coming from a charismatic Pentecostal background, I think sometimes there is this thought that those are at odds with each other. Correct. And they're not. And we tend to blame sloppiness on the Holy Spirit somehow. And I think God's a God of order. And he had people that could do skillful stuff and that didn't take away from his glory. Speak to that. I don't know if you had the idea that you can be both anointed and skillful simultaneously. There was something that Pastor Ricky said yesterday, he goes, the Holy Spirit can plan in advance pastors. Yes. And I thought that was great, even for me coming from a Pentecostal background to say, okay, sometimes we lean on that crutch of like, well, I'm just waiting until God says, instead of carving out and planning and preparing the time so that that way the Holy Spirit can speak in advance. And that was encouraging to me as a church planter to say, oh, wait a minute, hold on. This is about being excellent in my execution and planning and providing space to allow the Holy Spirit to speak to me. That just inspired me as well. And I just got to echo what he said because it was brilliant. Pastor Ricky just crushed it. Very good. You know, I think sometimes the Holy Spirit looks for opportunities in a prepared vessel. You know, I'm looking at, if Jesus obviously, when he got baptized, the Holy Spirit rested on him as a dove, if we fast forward into the synoptic gospels, we're going to find a space where it's time to feed 5,000, but it is through the planning, the sit down and the organization of even at the book of Acts, where the Holy Spirit wants to descend upon the early church. You've got to be in one place, one accord. So I agree. I don't think that the Holy Spirit is antagonistic to order and foresight and planning. Yeah. The person that's listening to this, we'll move on beyond preaching masterclass into some other things that are in Pastor Brandon's world, tell the audience next year why this needs to be on their count, no matter how busy they are. Yeah. I think that aside from the audience getting to see maybe some of the speakers that they look up to, they're tangible. You can walk up to them and speak to them. Apart from that, if you are not sharpening your gift, the proverb is clear, iron sharpens iron. And I think if we're not careful and we don't get an environment that stretch us, we will assume that the peak of what we have become is the only thing we can become. Okay. And so I think this is a stretching opportunity for you to lay your eyes on an aspect of your skill set that the Lord can create in you. So I think it's a non-negotiable. So San Antonio, Memphis and you're a Lakers fan. I'm confused. I'm all over the place. I'm confused, man. Talk to the audience through a little bit of your story, man, and now you're passing a Memphis. Catch us up to that moment. Yeah. I went to Bible College in Columbus, Ohio. Okay. And when I graduated there, we went back home. My wife and I have been married 20 years now. And we went back home to San Antonio and planted a life breeding church there. And it was going incredible. I just wouldn't have had any idea that the Lord would call me to Memphis, Tennessee. And so in faith, we just handed off that great church to the associate pastor there at the time. And he's done phenomenal things. And then we just packed up and moved to Memphis, Beverly Hill, Billy style. Oh, so what does that look like? I got called to Memphis. Like, you fill in the blanks for a second. Was it, you know, the heavens opened and God spoke to you? Like it was a church of it. Like what happened from San Antonio to Memphis? Yes, correct. I had came into there. There was an incredible man of God that was already, he had a local assembly in Chicago. And he had felt the call in Memphis and he invited us to come and help be a part of what was going on there. Okay. And it was upon that invitation that I started to scratch into in my humble estimation, the greater sense that it was the Lord and not just a good idea. Okay. And once my wife and I prayed into it being a God idea, we accepted and partnered and then went on to Memphis. And then since then, that man of God is doing phenomenal things in Chicago. And then we have changed the name of the church. And so it's reformation now. So it's, yeah, it's off to the racist. So what does reformation church in Memphis look like? Yeah. It looks like a space where you're going to have an encounter with authentic worship, which is not just the song in our world. So worship is more so tied to obedience when we see worship in the first mention of it. It is not connected to a ukulele or drum set. It is Abram telling his son, we're going up here in obedience, right? We're going up here to worship and we're going to come back when that's wonderful. But the synopsis of it is they were told he was told to sacrifice Isaac. So his obedience is worship. So we marry not just lyrics to the song, but lifestyle, right? So lyrics without lifestyle is just good singing. But if you have the lifestyle with the lyrics, now you're in worship. So it's that worship. It is a spirit filled environment where there is the moving of the gifts of the spirit. It is a doctrinally sound environment from preaching hands. I'm at the masterclass. It's a doctrinally sound where we prioritize the word of God. And even above that, if you ever visit Memphis, it is an incredibly gifted city, but the synergy and the home feeling, the love you're going to feel in that place, it's undeniable. Yeah. I mean, can I go back to something? You mentioned, you prayed about it and then you kind of just skipped over. Yeah, my wife and I just felt, was it just instantaneous? Because maybe there's some people listening to this and might say, hey, my wife and I are praying about it and we're not on the same page about this right now. Like could you speak into that because sometimes we talk about, oh, God called me here and then we went here. And my wife and I prayed in it and we say as if it happened within five seconds of each other. Yeah. And there wasn't a tension to be dealt with of, oh, we're going to leave everything we know. And now we're about to go into something that's completely unknown and maybe speak into that for the past. There might be listening and going, dude, may my wife are on the right, we're on the same page right now. We're in the tension of that. Yeah. That's a great question. I guess we had a little bit of practice. And we went to Columbus, Ohio for Bible college. We left San Antonio for the first time to move to Columbus, Ohio and I was literally just chasing the call of God. The time, the, the chancellor of the school felt like there was something in him that needed to get in me and I took him up on it. I believed him. And so that, that prayer, plan, faith leap was something that we already kind of had some rhythm in, but believe it or not, Christabel said no at first to Memphis. Okay. She did not feel like it was where we needed to go and mostly it was from her just saying, hey, my parents are here. Our family is here. Our girls are young at the time. I don't want to move them and then be on our own. And my hand to God, after some time in prayer, she woke up at 3 a.m. one morning with tears in her eyes and she said, I feel like the Lord called me to change the worship culture in Memphis to look more like Jesus. And that was the confirmation that she needed, although I had already felt the confirmation. I decided not to pressure her. I wanted the Lord to embed in her. And so we didn't have any marital tension because if God didn't give her the comfort and the confidence, I didn't want to build a church and be building her at the same time. Yes. And so thankfully, the Holy Spirit, it was him and she was, she was good to go after that. It's so hard sometimes in those moments to be patient though with that process. Yeah. It's really not really. It's a tension you live in to go, I've got to get my wife on the same page as what God already told me. And that doesn't work, correct. It's more of just letting go in the moment and saying, okay, hold on. Can I be mutually submissive, right? As the word tells us that we don't ever want to preach, we're good with the Ephesians 5, like, hey, you better submit. We just glaze over the mutual submission that he can and tells us about to say, hold on, I've got to be submissive and I've got to be patient because she's not there yet. That was kind of the same, same move for Kelly and I where she was not about it, you know, and even getting to Texas. She was, she was leaving 36 years of family, same church, same community. And maybe you can speak into that as a husband for a minute of being mutually submissive and patient in the process. So that way we don't just scramble the product, you know, it's like, we scramble the whole thing up because I'm a type of a leader and I've got to do what God told me to do. How do you manage that, like, as a leader, as a pastor and pastoring your own house first? Yeah, that's really good. I would say some of it is my personality because I grew up in church, but I did not grow up wanting to be a preacher. I grew up playing basketball. Okay. And so I had knew I knew what it meant to be cheered for to score a basket and I knew what it was to be booed to score a basket. Okay. So my ambitions were not kingdom ascension. So because I don't have those ambitions and most of my background and sports related, I did not feel the pressure to make her say, we need to go because now I get to be somebody. I had not assumed my introduction to the gospel was not the fame of personality and people. My introduction to the gospel was that I am a wretched sinner without the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ. I'm doomed. Yeah. So I looked at it as a blessed opportunity, but this was not hinged on my personal career. So because I didn't feel any pressure to be something special, I did not then in turn make her feel like you're holding me back. That is gold. Yeah. That perspective, right? Well, what is it? It's so different to lead out of the place of assurance versus striving for something. So we follow up and speak to that because let's be honest, there's a lot of leaders who are covering up insecurity and covering up what they've got going on on the inside simply so that they can hear the of the crowd. Yeah. I tell our church all the time that if you get drunk off of a plow, you'll have a breakdown when they stop clapping. And one day, for sure, one day God's going to tell you something that's going to make someone irritated. And you're going to hear it in joy and they're going to respond in anguish. And so if those hand claps are necessary, you and God are going to have a divine disagreement at some point. And so I think that if we could find a way, which is why the preaching masterclass is so useful because not only does this sharpen skill set, you get to see proper heart motives bleed out. I mean, what can we say about Pastor Judah Smith as he is uncontrollably weeping from the purity of his motives behind preacher. And so I think, yeah, it's got to be a motives wash. Pastor Brennan there from observation from the outside seems like there's a lot more going on in your life and ministry and calling in the different tentacles of the things you're involved in than just leading the church in Memphis. Talk to us about Pastor Brennan Claxwell. Yeah, you know, I oversee a network called Reformation Network and we've got 30 senior pastors that are part of what we're doing and we get a chance to connect them to resources and life giving suggestions. We get to check on their families and their wives and their husbands and their kids and all of that. And so that's its own separate world within itself. Sure. Is it like a denomination? No. Okay. It's just a network of churches that I just felt was in my heart and we're not necessarily soliciting or putting out the Cumbi with us at it. It is more so someone we essentially are saying if you identify that this fruit is helpful to you, then this tree might be the place where you want to plant. Okay. That's good. Okay. So it's very loose. It's very come as you are. It's really no strings attached. And I'm extremely passionate about pastors. And then I've been pastorin 14 years now and things are going well at Reformation and we've got my oldest daughter is 20, my second oldest, she's about to be 19. Okay. And my son, he's 14, he's just on the freshman basketball team. So be praying for. Be praying for. It's so cool because it's something unique that I'm experiencing here with the master class that it's not like hey, we need something from you. We're going to give you something. And I see the pairing between the master class and leading leaders collective in what you do to create that environment where it's like look, we don't need anything from you. We want to see you get everything God has for you and how do we assist. Maybe you guys could both speak into how do you create that environment with integrity? Because that's an environment that's missing in so many conference spaces. Like that's not what you get at the average conference. It's more of like, hey, take off your cape, you're just a man here. Let's talk. And maybe you guys can speak into that from both your sides. Yeah. I would probably say that the uniqueness of that has to come from a place where the individual knows God is a provider. Yes. I was thinking in my seat just a minute ago, I was thinking that God knows how to perfectly respond better than I even know how to ask. That's good. I rest there that his perfect response, his provision, his hand of protection. If I rest there, it's easy to have authentic relationships because I don't see you as my source. Right. You're not a walking wallet. Yeah. You're not. You're not. You're not any of those things. You're a person that loves the same mutual God. Right. And if he loves me like he loves you, then you're the middleman. I can scoot you side and go straight to him. So yeah, I think that's what makes this ecosystem so unique. You can tell that albertate depends on God and not the people in the pews. And you know, I think one of the things I noticed at the past during for 20 years and then moving into non-profit space while remaining a pastor with pastor Arbonard is this scarcity mentality that's in the body of Christ. Yeah. That somehow the God we preach about as a God of abundance, the God that owns the cattle on a thousand hills. God that can meet and provide for every need. I can give you above and beyond and exceeding all that you could ask, think or possibly imagine, somehow is going to run out if he blesses you that that's somehow less for me. I mean, when you, when you look at those other guys, part of your heart for pastors is the fact you can't look at them as competition. Correct. Not only they're not your source, they're not your competition. Speak to what it is to care for, encourage, be a brother to somebody else without the idea like, well, if that guy gets a better house or a nicer car, that somehow that's less for me. Yeah. You know, I think for me, I'm learning to trust God's pace. If he's flawless and if he's perfect, then the pace he chooses for me cannot be a misstep because it is not your pace. Right. So to envy your pace that God has given you really speaks to a core issue in my faith. Yes. If there's a core issue in my faith, then I can't see God right and I'll demand he does for me quickly what my character can only handle slowly. Yes. I won't, I don't want to be a name dropper, but there is a pastor in Atlanta. I guarantee you, even though we just met, I guarantee you you know him. And he and I went to college together and his goal was to pastor 400 people. Right now, if I were to tell you his name, you would say, oh my God, he's all over the place. And he has just exploded and it is because he incarcerated his ambition and trusted the pace of God. Say that one more time. Yeah. And incarcerated. Yeah. I think he locked it up, threw away the key, put it on death row, and then just trusted God's pace over time. How do you discern between faith and ambition? I mean, because I think there's a lot of guys that are cloaking, cloaking ambition with the language of faith that says, no, God told me, God told me. But a lot of it is just, no, no, no, this is really about, about your ambition. Yeah, that's really good. You know, it's, it's hard to discern on the outside looking at a person. So I would more so speak to the individual pretending. Yeah. And I would say just run through Galatians chapter five really quick. You're going to find the fruit of the flesh and the fruit of the spirit. And if your ambition is connected to any of those things attached to the flesh, it is not God. Yes. The only challenge is only you can admit it and only you can change it. Right. And the truth of the matter is, this is not the kind of thing that you're going to be challenged necessarily from the state, but from your brothers. That's so true. And so community matters, going back to the network you've got this idea of community. We've been brothers in, we've been in ministry from the Northeast now going on 25 years. And the guys that are connected, I remember we had a, we had a guy, a leader in New York that imploded and it came out in the newspapers several years ago. And I called one of my best friends, one of our best friends, a guy that we call brother. And I said, Jamal, if you ever read about me in the newspaper, I'm blaming you. Wow. That's really good. If you read about me in these people, I'm blaming you because you should have seen it in my life before the newspaper or the reporter ever called wind of it. Because you, so what is it about a community and network of brotherhood that is so important to ensure that we're not just famous and popular, but that we're leading with integrity? Yeah. I would suggest to the preacher, you're going to have to really kill that competition. Yes. You're competing with the brother, then you'll hide things that the brother needs to rebuke out of you. And it's hard to help you avoid a mess when you are hiding it from me. Yes. And so I would suggest that if you have real brotherhood, that's going to require real vulnerability. It's going to require real trust. You cannot share and spread what you hear, but you've got to be able to internalize and then advise how to turn out of that. But I think most guys really struggle with community because they really want to be seen as I'm doing just as good as you. Right. There's a great pastor that one said to me, because you're only as accountable as you will be honest. And it was brilliant when he said it and I was like, wow. But I think that that's something that's hard to really live out as a pastor when you're always in the limelight or you're always expected to have the answers to the questions that your people want. They come to you and they kind of press on you. So how do you manage that tension of having to have the answers, but also manage the relationships where you can be open and vulnerable? Those are the things that seem like they're juxtaposed to each other to say I have to have the answers, but I also have to be vulnerable. And how do I know how to step between those spaces and how do I move in that dance? Yeah. I think what you're describing is the Messiah complex. And I think some leaders are so used to having the S on the chest and the red cape that they believe that they're never Clark Kent. And that Messiah complex has guys feeling like, if I come down, then I'll lose respect. And your respect is not found in the solutions you provide because you're not the source. Your respect is found is that you're a broken vessel that is clinging to the source of healing. And if you'll share that part of the trauma, the thing might explode. And multiply quickly. Moses has got to reach beneath this cloak and it comes out with leprosy. And it's important that we embody and have our people understand that at the end of day, we're still lepros, we're just, we're just covered by the grace of God. And so, Ma'am Pastor Brennan, this has been fantastic. In a moment, I want you to straight up challenge those that are listening with one thing you would say to that leader. But before we get to that, I'm going to ask you the most important question of the interview. Memphis, Texas, or Kansas City barbecue. I mean, come on, let's just talk about it. I know Texas, you're pasting it, Austin, let's not screw this up. You talked about Dallas, San Antonio, you're in Memphis. I'm a leave Carolina, even out of this, I apologize to all the people I'm offending right now, but I don't like that vinegar stuff. Kansas City, you said you went to a chiefs game, I love Casey, I fall in love with that city. Shout out to Kansas City. What's the best barbecue out of all of them? Because it's going to be tough for you not to say Memphis, I get that, but I'm putting you on. I'm going to speak to Texas right now. This is an easy answer. There's a place in Luling, Texas. That's right. What? Luling, Texas. How do you know? What is Luling? L-U-L-I-N-G. Oh, come on, Texas. Luling Texas is about 70 people there on you. Luling, Texas. There is a place there where the whole restaurant is the barbecue pit. Like you have to walk into the pit in order to order. It is hands down, Texas. There's a place in San Marcus that is called Blacks Barbecue. Yes. It's Texas, hands down. Blacks, I took him for the beef rib. Oh, you've been there. Oh, been there. Yes. Tell me on mine. No, trust me. I have to correct you. Yes. Part of embracing the call to Bishop his church was we going to Blacks to sell you. And that said that. He was like, hey, would you be an overseer? I was like, I'll do it ever. You want me to do it? That's it. That beef rib is sick. I'll tell you. We got good food in New York City, but that is serious. You have to go to Luling. There's only one barbecue restaurant in the whole town. The name? I don't even, I can't remember the name. But it's, you know, you got to go to Luling before you get to Seguin. I don't know if you've been to Seguin, Texas. You just look up Luling. It's maybe from you. You're in Austin. It's maybe 40 minutes. Oh, that's worth it. That's right. That's lunch. And that beef rib is like the Flintstone. I don't know if I've eaten myself. It's like it's like a car over like that. Okay. Has the brand as we bring this to a close, we are live in the preaching masterclass here in Southern California. One thing that that leader needs to hear if you are only going to give them one thing. Yeah. I would imagine the one thing that I would give you as a leader or an emerging preacher really has to be your motives. If your motives are right, then the grace of God for whatever capacity you have for impact is going to be good. So keep your motives clean. Don't envy the impact of somebody else that you wish you would have had. If you make it to heaven, get a crown, it's all worth it. That's good. Pastor Brandon, thank you for being with us. Pastor Dan, thank you for guest co-hosting. I'm Pastor Adam Durso, faithfully stories. God bless you. Thank you for tuning in to the Faithfully Stories Podcast. We pray this episode gave you the encouragement you needed to continue on your journey. The Faithfully Stories Podcast is brought to you by Faithfully, an online community committed to empowering church leaders, pastors, staff, and volunteers. 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