A Sinner With a Conscience - David Tyree

It's hard to abandon your sense of self-authenticity or value system, right? What you believe is what makes you who you are. And the moment that you just begin to violate that, it brings a torment. And that's in Christ's out of Christ. You know, I was a sinner with a conscience, right? Like, I tell people, I was a great, I mean, like, I created my own laws, I was my own law. But I had a conscience, I didn't enjoy hurting people. That was one thing I needed, you know? Hello, my name is David Tyree, Super Bowl 42 Champion, author of the Greatest Catching Superbow History, lover of Jesus, entrepreneur, getting great things done. And this is my favorite. Welcome to Faithly Stories, the podcast that brings you inspiring tales from conversations with church leaders. As they navigate the peaks and valleys of their faith journeys through their ministry work and everyday life, join us as we delve into their challenges, moments of encouragement and answered prayers. The Faithly Stories podcast is brought to you by Faithly, an online community committed to empowering church leaders, pastors, staff, and volunteers. Learn more at Faithly.co. Get ready to be uplifted and inspired as we unveil the heart of faith through stories from the front lines of ministry on the Faithly Stories podcast. So could you tell me how your faith journey started? Man, my faith journey started in 2004. I was, I mean, there's enough leading up to it, but I'll say the way it started was, I think I was, I became a bro, I became acquainted with my real brokenness as I entered the National Football League in 2003. And, you know, as an athlete, you can hide a lot of things behind success, discipline. And honestly, a well-shaped sense of purpose as a young man. I think my rival in New York City market getting drafted, I kind of lost the safety nets of that calendar as a professional. And while I had success on the field, I was really fledgling and failing from a character perspective. And I will say that my rookie year, I was drawn to the faith for the first time ever. I was not raised in a religious home at all. So I call myself good old grade, a American heathen. And I think, I think I just the idea of being in position to fill a dream was pretty amazing and a chapel service and treat me. I made a confession of faith, but I really had no desire to change. And it was, it was simple. After getting fine for $10,000 at the end of the season, all my wild drunken late, you know, late, showing up late to work, I figured, you know, I got the best bud, I might as well sell it, came back from Mardi Gras and had to go pick, went to Harlem, pick up a pound, think it was a pound of purpose. And I got pulled over, coming, you know, and forth lead, coming across the bridge. And that was, that was kind of like my road to Damascus. And I just, you know, as I'm in that jail cell, I was kind of replaying all of my folly, all my foolishness. And, and I just cried out the God for the first time in sincerity, said, God, all I know is I need you. And if you love me to keep my job, I'd appreciate that too. And so that was like the, the call. And yeah, within a matter of weeks, I, I found myself broken in a, in a, in a church. And literally I left that church. I was in a fetal position. I left that church and I was never drank again. I never smoked again. And I was married three months later. So I had a radical encounter with Christ. Where did you grow up? My plan is, well, he started my plan in Jerry's. Um, as his county kid was a Jersey kid. And you know, East Orange is definitely a super, you know, rough urban neighborhood. And I think I had a quick little step in St. Thomas, started fifth grade there and, you know, things didn't work out. My uncle kind of just flipped the script on us. And so I finished fifth grade and moved into Montclair, which is a budding suburb, but super diverse. I call it authentic diversity. Yeah, poor black people all, I went to, you went to school with all kinds of people. There wasn't really any deep racial tension. You played on, you know, on sports teams. It felt like an amazing black town, but at the same time you went to school with everybody's. Changed my life. Well, I said, my uncle in the Jersey changed my life. So yeah, I'm as his county kid, we went through. So yeah, it was, it was a place where you could see yourself. And you know, because I remember I got, we never, it was never an official gang. But I think middle school was like, you know, got arrested twice and my, and I think it was just those kinds of communities, and I realized, man, I don't got to do this. It was kind of like, you know, come from a spot like East Thorns. That's the Nordy by nature days and the 90s and things like that. But Montclair was like, you know, we had our own rooms, you know, three of the, three of the outlaws were from Montclair. So two parking outlaws, we worked death row east. So Montclair was like that kind of town. So yeah, but at the end of the day, I think there was some sobriety as I was realizing, you know, I could do something different. That's where I locked in all sports. Did you have any like faith influences or did you have friends that believe when you're growing up? It was a couple. You know, like I heard the terminology saved before, you know, I didn't really know what that means. But I will say this. My aunt was the church going on. I had an aunt. If I went to see my cousins, this is mostly during my historic, my cousins lived in North. So, you know, right off South Foreign Javanove, North Mon, I lived, you know, kind of like grew up, I felt like I grew up partially in North. We spent so much time there. But she was the, if you're going to see on Burke, you're going to Sunday school. So, and on Burke, definitely plays a part when I do get born again. But in relation to like my home, yeah, it was a single parent home. My mom's was doing her best. My dad was around and he was amazing. But when you just, the lack of presence really does, you know, create a deficit when you talk about, you know, family and even more so a young man, I grew up, I had two of the sisters. So, faith wasn't, I just wasn't my mom's paradigm. My house, honestly, my house was like the spot for all the time, food, you know. So, you know, I grew up, my mom bought my alcohol, she bought, you know, we started drinking 14, 15, smoking 15, smoking weed and women. So those were my traditional vices. But yeah, you know, by the time I'm a sophomore, June, every week, it's a blunt to the head and half a pint of Jack Bay was in the 40. I mean, that was pretty much a weekly routine and my mom had the worldly wisdom of I rather than be in the house, acting a fool and just be out of the street, acting a fool. And I would never prescribe the thing I didn't cost me. So yeah, faith was kind of like distant and no kid is choosing to go to church. It was like, I might have went to church one time, a friend, but no, it wasn't. It wasn't like. I only asked because I realized like listening to a lot of people's stories, they give them there's like this moment where you need an encounter Christ, like there's always seeds in your life. It would look back. And so I'll just curious us to that. Yeah, yeah. You know, like I think examples go go longer, you know, they're more impressionable than we can imagine, but at the same time, when you think about a young kid, you don't have a constant voice and a mirror to really reflect the image of Christ, it becomes really challenging. My kids are growing up in the exact opposite paradigm than I did. So in being able to kind of see some fruit in that regard, but you know, they were, but even so, I really consider, you know, God's mercy along the way, but, you know, my aunt, she was committed. I will say she was extremely committed. She was a spirit-filled woman. You know, we never heard her pray and tongues are praying to spirit, but that was something we began to see later. But it was, I do believe the seeds are 100% there when I think about growing up as a kid in the 80s, 90s, and, you know, the turbulence in her city, you know, like that, those structures and television and KO, I was completely locked in on every rap hip hop, you know, athlete, you know, all the traditional vices I certainly fell into. So what sparked you to love football? You know, I think moving into the town, it was, it was, it was, it was definitely different in the fact that, um, these storms, like I said, you know, it was, it was, I actually was in a solid part in these storms, you could always find trouble around the corner. But when I moved into Montclair, that's what the kids did. So it was a social thing back then, and I felt, you know, totally different in the days, athlete, you know, everybody's got to bust their kids, and every parent's getting their kid to every program, I think that's what kids did. So of course, you know, you could hoop at the park, but, um, when it came down to, you know, by the time I settled in to finish up, you know, great, it was very clear all the kids were playing copes. Montclair, they didn't even have P.A.L. or, you know, Pop Warner. It was Montclair Copies, the guy named Howard Finney, started a program. So, you know, when I get a chance to tell my story, I kind of point it back to this move, this, when my mom might not have known this strategic move to this amazing, diverse, um, you know, uh, suburb right next to the East Orange, that was literally right up the street. I brought my bike down in the East Orange and couldn't go see my grandmother, but that was it. It was just social. I was a scrub for a year and I tried out for JV the next year and, you know, so it's just kind of progressive. But honestly, it's just, you know, to be, to get to a physical game, it was something that was, you know, gladiatorish to it that I was drawing to. Yeah, I tell all like moms all the time too, and they have boys and they're like, so in reality, I'm like, no, they just need to exert energy, so like give them a sport, you know, I think, uh, you know, as, as we're kind of emerging as parents, most of us kind of see some of the missing elements of just being outside, run around, you know, and, um, you know, ADHD is a, I'm sure it's, I know it's a real thing, but half of our ADHD was cured in the 80s, just run around outside. That's exactly what I say. I said, like, I didn't have like internet or computer side, just played outside all day. So that was like, my mom's away time for me while she did stuff at home, but people all are like home old. Yeah, man. You know, I think they call us what the latch key kids, but, and I, you know, I was the hardest part of my parenting journey is like the kids, I took my kids outside and they come back in 15 minutes. I'm like, what is your problem? Why are you here? You're destroying my house. And, uh, yeah, definitely different, you know, we, we, we've done some parenting seminars through the years, but it's like, yeah, you know, we have seven kids, but totally different contrasts and lifestyles and opportunities, but I think, I think it makes, there's certain things that make for, for better humans and what we desire for our kids to show up. So when did you know, like the NFL would be like a real dream? And the reason why I asked is because I realized, like, God, like, gives us this dream, not necessarily to make it a final destination, but a direction. And then of course, of the path like we change. Yeah, I think that's a great observation. I think my dream was to be a division one, a, uh, player, it's amazing. I had to dream a new dream when I had a son. So, you know, the birth of my other son, Taeyeon, who turned 23 this month, you know, um, but, you know, yeah, 21 years old, I'm about to bring a child into the world and I would just want it the best for him. And I think, you know, I, I credit, you know, God and his sovereignty, you know, this, this sin and that, that his sin ended up being a promulgating factor in me dreaming a new dream and it was just out of a desire to be a good father. So when I even look at my entire, so much of my journey in Christ has been rooted in being a father and my road to maturity, my road to selflessness has been in that vehicle. So the NFL, I never felt like I was conquering the throne at college. So it just wasn't really that much of a thought. And, but yeah, it was just like, man, if I could just get an opportunity to provide generously for this, this little human I'm going to bring it to the world. And that was certainly the seed and, um, it's amazing. When, you know, there's so much detail in sports psychology, I would go to the line of scrimmage, you know, all throughout my year with an image of my son in my head, you know, just, just with the hope to, to be the best and creating an opportunity and a grace of God, it came to pass. Did you get drafted? I did. I did. It wasn't, you know, um, it's weird when you kind of hear it, you know, for sports fans, you know, you can get drafted as high as the fourth round and to not at all. And the truth is, it's actually a real thing. It's, um, you just never know who would be one team that loves you. Obviously, I had character issues. I found out later that they had, they had like a D character grade on me and I deserved it. I was, like I said, I was definitely wild and I, you know, I, I was, I called myself a function in alcoholic. I drank every weekend as a blackout artist. Um, and most of that was like my dark days of Syracuse, like, um, obviously I drank from a young age, but yeah, it, so to get drafted, that was what they actually told me, you know, it was like, yeah, you can be drafted as high as the fourth, like, now I didn't, I didn't have a combine, I didn't go to an all-star game. So I was definitely low on the total pole and just getting a shot was kind of my thought. So when I heard my, you know, when I got the phone call from Giants, it was pretty, it was pretty cool. And even as they were kind of keeping me on the line, I ended up getting the call from the lines. Um, but they had the first pick of the seventh round. So it was, it was dope. All of a sudden, I'm hot. I'm like, yeah, I got the lines on out of the line, you know. But then I was like, now we got you here, you know, last pick of the sixth round. So it was, it was, it was amazing. Next thing, you know, I'm not even going anywhere. It's like it's 20 minute ride from the grip. That's awesome. Uh, looking back, do you feel like you were coping with something with the drugs in alcohol? Oh, yeah, man. I think, I think every form of addiction is about pain. I think there's some underlying pain. But for me, I think the deeper root cause was more, you know, the rejection, fear rejection, the pain that can be associated with not knowing who you are or not belonging. Um, you know, I think a lot of my sinful, poor decisions were just rooted in this desire to be alone and not being okay with who I am, you know, and, um, and I think that's where so much, especially when it comes to different forms of addiction. It's usually the need to erase or eradicate true pain, perceived pain, emotional pain or, uh, you know, lack of identity, right, and identity crisis in some way, way shaper form. There's a spectrum to all of that. So I think my journey, just to, you know, like, you know, it was, it was easy to present myself, right? You drown out the frontal lobe, and I don't have to worry about the decision. Somebody, a girl says, no, I want to the next one. And, um, you know, and I certainly wasn't altogether shy, but I had those fears, you know, like, you know, talking about the spirit of fear. So yeah, now, that was part of the journey. And I think just that being such a norm in my generation of risk was alcohol. Now risk today is, um, you know, online, you know, like, um, you know, so I think, you know, it looks, it looks different today, but yeah, I was definitely in the streets. I was drawn to, um, you know, to, you know, like I said, I think all these snares manifest different, but was fortunate, you know, that, uh, it didn't cost me, and I always looked at sports was kind of like, you know, it was like a surgery father, you know, and I had an amazing father who was very supportive, but the lack of, you know, when I think about the powerful role of a father, they give identity, you know, they give direction. There's so much that only can, that is wired to come, you know, from the father. And, um, so some of those things just lacked, you know, he was, I call my dad my hero, not because he was perfect, but because he did his best. And, um, so just the fracture of a family really, you know, creates a lot of gaps for the enemy to get in there and he struggled, you know, I mean, like I had a drinking substance abuse driven home, so it was just easy to get in on those vices. So, um, yeah, I got grace create that avenue to overcome. Yeah, it's like a strange feeling as you get older, you realize, oh, wait, I'm older than when my dad, like, I remember my dad and so like, I'm like, oh, okay, he was literally trying his best, even though it wasn't best for like, I didn't feel like it was the best. And so you have this like better compassion and understanding, right? Yeah, it's, it's, it's, it takes a man to appreciate a man, you know, it takes becoming a man to appreciate what a man has to endure. You know, when you grew up in a forest home, it's just, hey, you're not here. And, um, and we've had a good relationship, but it's like this hidden bitterness underline. We never had a contentious relationship. And honestly, because he wasn't an authoritarian, you know, like, he wasn't, you know, like, so I think my dad was trying to make up for missing time, you know, he was a gift giver, take us to ice cream. It was, it was, you know, like, when you, when you have this a lot of time, you're just trying to make the most of. So it was, it was, it was always good. It was always, you know, he was, he was the better cook. My mom was a really good cook too, but he was, you know, like, he, yes, things I couldn't get at home. So, um, yeah, I think, when I think about who he was, and, and especially as my hard guy healed, when I became born again, the, the desire for that relationship, of course, you know, he's not, he's not born again, but he's just an admirable, I am my father's weird. You watch these things come to come to fruition. So I just had this amazing admiration for who he was as a man doing his best service family. And, um, and honestly, there were probably some opportunities that he could have took professionally, but he wanted to be close to his family. I bet a lot that could have been the saving, saving grace from our own life. How's your relationship with your father today? Amazing. Amazing. You know, I'm always trying to find a way to, to spend more time, but having seven kids and I've had a, you know, I've been making disciples and loving God and, um, you know, I think it's, I would, I would have hoped for him to come, kind of like invade my life a little more, but it's, it's actually, you know, yeah, that, that's backwards. It's like, go, you know, go, go, go find a way to get in your dad's space. So, um, in light of, I think that's probably one of the biggest tensions of wanting to maximize the relationship, be with him, but, um, but at the same time, I got so much going on, um, raising up seven kids in my own, working full time, um, and just trusting God with these different, um, functions, you know, as, as, as I'm moving into maturity as a, as a man, myself, and raising my own family, so, but there's never been any, especially, you know, just, there was a lot of healing in my heart, easy to forgive. Thank God. I, I've never had forgiveness of bitterness issues and I think it's just been appreciation, you know, like, man, I've been, I've been really fortunate to have two parents who admit well for me, regardless of their lack. And I think, you know, compassion was able to wall up, um, in light of the fact that I didn't have this deep, destructive, you know, how was able to be responsible for my own sin? Like, yeah, you did this. It didn't tell you to do it. So, so, um, yes, I think, you know, I think that the Adam and every single one of us, the Adam and Adam, nature is always looking for someone to blame. You know, it's always, uh, looking to pass off, you know, you know, there's woman you're getting, you know, like, who can I pass this off to? And I think if we can just be honest about our, our own nature, our own sin and, and own it, then God can find that avenue to come and say it's, yeah, I completely agree. I think once my mind shift changed from like, oh, you're the cause of my pain to like, okay, you know what, let me learn how to deal with pain, right, and process it. Because I think like too often a world is, like, constructed in a way where, right, they're avoiding it or managing it, but like, managing it also doesn't work because then you're just like continually doubling down on the, the solution. Yeah. Well, I said, and I think the whole thing is like, it's a powerful thing that in salvation is not just forgiveness or going to heaven. It's, it's to reality that he wants his whole, right? He wants us healed, right? He healed. And I'm being here, you know, I think this Trinity salvation is a, you know, the, the salvation itself is a Trinity I accept and I believe and I'm saved. I confess and I believe and I'm saved and I'm being saved and in the end, I'll be saved. I've always loved this radical dynamic about God and his exponential ways that are so far beyond mine. But like, man, I'm, I'm free. I'm a wreck. I'm being freed and in the end, I'm going to be made perfect, right? So I think if we, in the faith that we can believe God, you know, that by a stripes I'm healed, but healing has to manifest as I'm still needing something. So I think it's all, it's all a beautiful expression and reality that God has so much more in store for us and the journey is just allowing, allowing the physician to take that scalp and get to those painful places at different times of junctions and the journey. Sometimes it's just terrifying. I think we just got to be honest sometimes like, man, I can't believe I'm this broken. But if we can embrace the beauty and then that's when it becomes a joy for journey. Yeah. Something I say now is that like the truth does hurt, but the pain is supposed to set you free, you know? Fantastic. Fantastic. And I think that's, you know, that's kind of, you know, it's, it is, I embrace the journey so much and I guess for lack of a better term, the athlete mindset has prepared me for a lot in relation to, like if I could suffer for glory, how can I not, you know, for my own glory, how can I not suffer for his glory, right? It's pain and suffering is not something that is, is, is a turn off for me, right? It's like, I know we're not necessarily signing up for it, but I've seen the reward of suffering, I've suffered for it, you know, success, how much not more for my saving. So obviously it brings me great joy when I consider what Paul says, you know, the sufferings of this world are not considered worthy to be compared to the glory which I'll be revealed. And I think that's, these are the things that we can kind of ease our way into as we're young in the faith, yeah, we want the victory, we want God to make everything better right now. And I think as we grow, there's, there's tremendous joy, that's why joy exceeds happiness. And understanding radically change when they realize, oh, wait, pain and suffering, is it necessarily a bad thing? Like I don't like it, right? But if there's a purpose, and I think a lot of times people just don't understand the purpose, because when you're in it, like you have no idea, it's so confusing, like afterwards, you know? Yeah, that peaceable fruit of righteousness, that's right. Yeah, afterwards for sure. And then I think, you know, the process and I think, you know, scriptureally we'll call a sanctification, so many, there's a process that is going to bring forth a reward or a product, right? You know, even in the marketplace, you know, there's a process to produce in the product. So at, you know, at the end of the day, there's some, there's some tugging, there's some meeting, there's some planning, there's some pain, there's being produced to bring forth that product. And in God's eyes, we are the product. You know, we are the work, where his workmanship, and so that's the whole thing. You know, he's just chiseling away. So yeah, I think that's, that's the whole thing is, he's just better, he's better, and there are many different junctures of things that I don't understand, but there are, there's enough that he does give us to understand that we could actually just kind of find agreement, you know? And that's why I think if we can just believe him, believe is, you know, that's, that's what really leads to belonging, you know, like, and then I think that, that's what really brings peace and liberty, just knowing that I belong here. Yeah, believing is also hard because you got to experience it. So like, I think there's this like spectrum where like you have to dream it and hope it, and then just hold on to it until it becomes true. So kind of like like your journey to the NFL, like you thought about it, and then you got the call. You're like, oh snap, this is real now. It's real. Yeah, it's, it's wow. And it's true is, you know, as a young man, I never really considered myself much of a dreamer. I had kind of, I've always been about the present, but it's amazing how he gives us, he gives us a desire when I think about dreams deeply stem from desire. And I didn't really understand these things until I became far more mature. And recently I even began to have a deeper understanding of, you know, how he gives us the desires of our heart. Most of us, we, we think that scripture is saying that God is going to give us what we desire. And it actually says he gives us the desires of our heart, and I just recently, it just blew my mind. Oh man, man, the desire that's in me is what God has given. So I'm talking about the good, you know, hopefully we can identify the good, righteous desire as children of God, you know, what are the desires, right? So maybe they were not quenching something that God has actually put in us. And I think that's a powerful thing about God is like, man, he's giving us desire. He's crafting something in us that only he can give us, right? A will and a desire for something that is maybe even beyond our own understanding. That's a dream in my, you know, like what do, you know, I think that's something for us as Christian because most of us, when we see it, it's like what I do desire, God is obligated to give and it's typically as a workout that way. And that's why we experience a lot of disappointment. Yeah, I think part of it for me, at least like growing up, like you get bombarded by these advertising, right? And it tells you like what this American dream is, right? And so it looks good because people seem really happy. So you want to pursue that. But like when I was pursuing that, like I felt off, do you remember the movie Boiler Room? Absolutely. It was a GMM. It was named. I literally worked in that office, like a kind of like that. And so I felt like we are just trying to trick people to give me their social security, like take out these loans and I was like, this isn't me. You know, even though they're making a lot of money. So like I think what you're saying is like, there's this thing in me. Like if I do it or I don't do it, I feel off. I don't feel myself. Yeah. It's true. I know we have every tag line out these days, you know, all the information's out. But you know, it's hard to abandon your sense of self authenticity or value system, right? What you believe is what makes you who you are. And the moment that you just begin to violate that, it brings it, it brings a torment. And that's in Christ out of Christ. You know, I was a sinner with a conscience, right? Like I tell people I was a great, I mean, like I created my own laws. I was my own law. So, but I had a conscience. I didn't enjoy hurting people. That was one thing I did enjoy, you know. And so yeah, I think I think you expressed that great is like, man, there's this true reality of, hey, man, there's this thing that we have desires. And of course, the enemy would attempt to steal every dream, destroy every sense of hope that every human has in the earth. But you know, God would have a greater desire for us. And obviously we need, that needs to be redidmed, you know, sin is the, is the enemy of the soul, the enemy of the humanity. And you know, just desperately trying to, you know, wreck everyone. So the redemptive process is so powerful. I think now, you know, you can even see it in people's life before they come to Christ, but obviously we're hopeless apart from Christ. So like a couple of weeks ago, I was like, front squatting and I screwed up my back. And the reason why I bring this up is because I didn't realize how much like a low green, like consistent, sharp pain messes with your mind and I'm curious as to like, cause pain management is the thing in the NFL, right? You guys get hurt all the time. Like how do you deal with the physical pain while like being healed internally with the, you know, spiritual pain? Yeah, yeah. You know, I think there's obviously there's a warrior mindset that goes along with, you know, athletes. And of course, I'll give a top 9 to football, maybe not number, you know, we're up there. I think we're about the mission or about the reward, meaning like, you know, when you have a soldier's mindset, the promise far exceeds the pain, right? It's the reward in every soldier, every athlete playing their part. And I think what's unique about football, it's one of the few sports that has this oneness element. Whereas, you know, every play, if you're looking for 11 guys to do their job and operate and as one. So even when you consider the church or the body of Christ, it's one of the few sports that actually brings that, you know, every now and then you actually see just one guy mess up on his job and it costs the whole play, right? So regardless of who's the strongest, who's the weak, this, everyone, Matt can. So I think when it comes to pain, you know, number one is about performance. If I can't, if I can't contribute, there is no glory. If I can't get out there and these are all powerful metaphors of life, you've got to get in the game, right? You've got to get on the field. You've got to play your part and pain is a part of the process that is going to produce something powerful. But, you know, I hate all these peas, but yeah, it's about the reward. So I think you just, and it's not even for us, it's like, cannot, right? Like, you know, we always distinguish the difference between being hurt and being injured, right? It's like, well, that's the human experience, you're going to take blows. Are you injured? You need to pull you out the game, right? And I think that's, that's, that's hard for so many people who have a weaker mindset because pain will tell you, you know, I remember very early, you know, as early as me, understanding how God would begin to speak to me, you would randomly introduce a word that I was familiar with. I heard indolence one day, you know, basically the avoidance of pain. And I think that's, that's where so many people are because, because it hurts, we want to avoid it, but it's, you know, it's obviously central to the human experience. We can't avoid pain, eventually you're going to fall, right? And it doesn't mean that you're signing up for pain, right? But at the end of the day, something just hurts, right? It's a, it's the body's response to being alive, right? Pain lets you know you're alive. And I think that's, it's these lessons that are in thread in life, but you can overcome. So yeah, in my hurt, in my injury, and I think at the end of the day is, yeah, you realize how, how much, how resilient God has fashioned us to be as overcomers, more than conquerors. And so yeah, you know, getting your, you know, having a, a game like football brings all these things into a context way ahead of schedule, and then maybe some because, again, most people don't have a mission, you know, that, that younger age, they have, maybe they haven't found their thing that allows them to embrace the suffering or embrace the process. I love the NFL. I love the shield. I'm a jet fan. So I know pain. Well, I think we hit one of those days where we're hanging out together. If you're in Hades, we're in a compartment of she-old right now. Yeah, I'd say it's not met life, it's sad life. It's sad like, yeah, it's telling you, brother, it's getting, it's getting real sad. I, you know, I'm like, Lord, I think we need to pray differently from New York City. It is definitely so. So I got to ask about the catch more in the context of like, like, because I see this in like acting to an actor's, they get like typecasts because of this one thing, everyone remembers, right? So like one, I'm sure like, you felt amazing because you won the Super Bowl in that number exactly where I was in that happen. It's like a 9-11 moment of like, what for you, like afterwards, you just, it's like the thing, you know, like, so like, how do you feel about that and like, how have you kind of lever-steed or did you like shy away from it? Yeah, I think the only thing I didn't do is leverage it properly, you know, like, I didn't have the tools or the resources or the team at the time, you know. I'm still trying to leverage it, I'm like, who's going to help, you know? But honestly, it's been, it's been, it's, it's my, it's a memorial from God. It's a, you know, not only is it a gift from God, not only is it a, a powerful miracle on so many different levels, it was prophesied at the beginning of the season, it was prophesied at the night of 40, the game. It was so such a heavily moment and I think, um, so for me, it means so much. It's, it's my Isaac for lack of better terms. It's, it was something that I literally came back from Arizona and I gave back to God and I said, Lord, all I want is more of you. So when I consider what it means to me, it's a sacred gift from God. The game that basically raised me up and gave me identity in the fifth season of my NFL career and all of my desire to, to accomplish something, to achieve something that I couldn't in my own strength. God made, he allowed me to be a remembered as a part of the game of the NFL. Like at the end of the day, I'm going to be a part of the NFL story. That's something that I can give God glory for for the rest of my life. So it means so much to me in so many different ways because I know that God is the one who orchestrated it, um, it allowed me to be a part of this narrative that has given me so much joy, peace and purpose. So I'm just grateful that I can go and at the end of the day, it's the gift that keeps on giving. So I'll be like, this I'm going to figure out the leveraging thing, but I, I have had this tremendous privilege of being a son of God and that being a powerful avenue to share the gospel in so many different places and make disciples and, um, and at the end of the day. Do you like remember the play like in the huddle and what you guys are thinking? And like, did you like run the route or was it like he just saw you? Cause I think you were double covered too. Yeah, it was 76, why sell, what, seven, half right, 76 max, why sell union? So yeah, four wide receivers in the game, I'm running a deep post taking the top off the covers, they could and actually they had the perfect covers lined up to throw the post over the top to me, but theoretically, I call it a W rock. You taking the top off the cover and Steve Smith coming under and, uh, and obviously, man, thank God the offensive line chose not to block anybody because, you know, it was fantastic. It was great. I always say, you know, Eli became vanilla, and I'm the black guy who can't jump. It's great. I like 30, 31 inch vertical. My vertical was so bad, they gave me an extra shot at my pro day. So it was like miracles on top of miracles. And here's this no name wide out, who's up against Rodney Harrison for this accounting moment. And, um, yeah, you couldn't make this whole storyline up. And then, uh, yeah, it wasn't necessarily double cover, but yeah, Sancti Samuel's back there to arguable Hall of Famer and Rodney, Rodney Harrison. And, and it's just me, who's this guy? And next thing, you know, I don't even know that it's on my helmet. So that part was a, amazing, because I didn't see it until I actually got back to the hotel, but what I always enjoyed about it is immediately after, you know, the rest of these Steve Sable NFL films, he immediately said, this is the greatest place. Superbowl history undoubtedly the greatest place. So I said, well, this Steve Sable was spoken. I agree. I happen to think is the greatest playing NFL history, but I'll take, I think the NFL ranked it number three, um, of the top NFL, you know, top plays in NFL history. So I'm agree. Yeah. As long as the NFL is around, the people will remember your name. It's so wild. Yeah, I mean, it's definitely like one of those, you know, you know, I don't have any feelings of insecurity about it, because it was, you know, you get, you know, I grew up in the Millie Vanilla era. So when you talk about one hit one, there's, um, I wasn't even supposed to be in the NFL. And not only is that far from my narrative, but yeah, I was an NFL special team. Rick, good a year. I was an all pro, a special teams player. I won a Superbowl. The greatest Captain Superbowl history is seven seasons. And then I just, you know, like I said, I got, I got a chance to do it all in seven seasons. And, um, and, I mean, he's marked by God's grace. He's marked my life, which meant his favor. And at the end of the day, you know, says, you know, a good, you know, and, and I'm able to walk away with a good name, you know, the, you know, which is better than silver and gold. So, um, you know, to be God's kid is the greatest to, to be marked in these places of influence. And be able to read to conversations that I probably don't even belong in his face. Yeah, something again, I'm learning this year too is like, what's better than fame or fortune is reputation. Oh, man. And I'll tell you an enemy will do anything that he can to mar it. But, you know, and what exceeds that is integrity and character, right? Because at the end of the day, our value is determined by without a say, but, you know, our identity is determined by what God says. So, um, you know, if we build our life, you know, integrously around, around the, you know, the testimony and the image of Christ. And there's no greater value. I was, you know, sharing with some people about what was significant about, you know, the NIL ruling because what roles, sports play in our culture is that your identity is the highest value that you have. So our highest value will always be in the name, image and likeness of Jesus Christ. That's really where your truest value is, you know, is that you were born in the image and likeness of God. Man was created in the image and likeness of God. But only through the name of Jesus Christ can it be restored to its greatest value. That was the revelation of NIL that, you know, obviously in sports yet, I wish I, I wish I could just get a cut. But I've had my moments. I'm a father now. So what was your transition like out, like coming out of the NFL and what are you doing now? Man, transition is challenging, but for me, it was super stable because I was secure in Christ. So I think I had an amazing, you know, stable in my faith, secure in my identity. But I didn't have the career mapped out the way that I wanted. I worked with a good friend of mine who was a broken Christian and a financial space. And after about a year and a half, I'm kind of like not having a clearly defined role. I knew I just like, this isn't it. I felt like being a fish out of water because there's so much detail. Every minute of my day is on an itinerary in sport and, you know, in entrepreneurship, you kind of eat what you kill. And I wasn't necessarily trying to mine out my, my role of decks, you know, so it was a weird experience. But yeah, I found my way back in the athlete development, which was really amazing because, you know, from in a leadership skills and being able to work with a population that I was familiar with had, you know, immediate value. So I worked for two years in the NFL office, six years as an director of a player development with the Giants. And in 2020, I just kind of found myself out like a fish out of water again, man. It was, you know, it was definitely, they're like wildernesses, you know, these transitions. They're their own form of a wilderness, where you're going to be tested. And, and I think the, the whole point of a test is that you're proven that there's, there's, there's not just a lesson, but when my, and it's not, and it's, you know, these siftings are producing something, right? So what's in us comes to the surface pressure brings forth the draws. And I think that's the refining process that got to try to bring us through. So, so I think the transition is difficult for everyone at different stage. I was emotionally stable, you know, when I think about what, where my name was and what my brand feel like about a term was, you know, the road to humility has been my journey. And I think I never wanted glory. I never wanted the world's glory. I just really desire Christ. And I really had a dove's eye pursuit for Christ and his kingdom. So I was just going low. And, and I think, you know, as this, this 2020 kind of moving into this entrepreneur space, giving the space to really be present for my family. I've, I've had a lot of commitment, a to ministry in a very hidden way for lack about a term, like really organic belly, the belly, life, the cycle making, and it's been life giving, man. It's just like no glory. You know, when you, when you're really doing this to see Christ reveal in your own life, to see Christ reveal to others, then it's just about how you can serve God and serve people. And I wasn't trying to necessarily build my own kingdom, but it's produced a lot of fruit. So I think, you know, I think of this journey and being in a market place is like, man, you really have to have, you know, when you don't have a bunch of different skill sets, now you have to learn how to build this, you know, mobilize a network. You know, I think that's where I've been at in these last few years. I've been in a more entrepreneurial space and that's led to the catch camp, you know, had my podcast going for a couple of years. And, you know, I felt like the Lord was just kind of bringing me back into storytelling. And, you know, we'll see where that ends up in the next couple of years. But we had a, we had a storefront started as clean juice as a franchise system with the Tiree's table because, you know, we end up losing in this franchise deal. So we got some, you know, some litigation there. So yeah, it was just, you know, these last few years have been a proven ground unlike any other. And I have loved it in relation to the journey. You know, I said, you know, I've never really perceived losses. They're just lessons. And I tell people, my thing is all the ways that I'm not like Christ, it cost me. And that's what I've learned. Everything, every way in which I have not been like Christ at every season of juncture, it's been, it's cost me. And I think one of my journeys to maturity at this stage has been true. And it's, you know, like, there's been a great sense of naivety as a young athlete. You don't know so much. And so I don't always say like, man, just taking advantage of it in some ways. Yes, but the accountability measures, I'm a high ownership, high accountability. I'm like, I didn't ask the right questions, right? I didn't know what questions to ask. How do you so, but that also prepared me on how to serve people, how to decide for people. Mitch, here's the questions you need to ask, you know, financial advisor. Here's the questions you need to ask, Lord, you know, you know, like, so I think the journey to matured in this juncture and, and, and navigating as really positioned me to flourish in ways where I feel confident that I can do anything. So yeah, it's been, you know, transition is definitely one of my sweet spots. When I, when I do speaking or consulting at this, at this juncture, you know, my company is just because I've endured and, you know, I haven't necessarily mastered, but I've really have a great sense of experience with that as equipped me to, you know, be able to empower others to excel. So how did, like, what, what have you been learning about accountability as a father of seven kids? Oh boy. Yeah, I, you know, it goes back to every, every way in which I'm not like Christ, cost me, and I think the journey is, you know, it's such a sacred journey, parent, you know, parenting and, and I think by God's grace, we've, my, my oldest son, like, and he's, he's on fire for God. He's last year to have two years, my two oldest sons of both really awakened, you know, they have obviously grown up fearing God. I think when you're in both, my oldest two sons were, you know, conceived out of, you know, my oldest, by the time my second son was born, we were born to get married, but, you know, certainly conceived and sin. And, you know, there was a, there was a deep wrestling with my oldest two sons. I think leading boys are totally different. And then there was something there with that spiritual dynamic that, that was a harder wrestling match as opposed to the rest of my children. And that was a crushing blow to recognize how God is not mocked. And we reap what we sow, his ways are better, right? So I think my journey and parenting has been sober at every level, like, man, we don't get away with anything. You know, God's mercy doesn't eradicate the consequences of sin, right? God's grace doesn't, it doesn't do this. Not quite that way. We, we're, you know, there's some sins where we reap it in the earth. There's some sins we're going to fully account for in that day. And I'm not talking about, it's just like, hey, man, we're going to, we don't think of account for this. So I think that's what has been so sobering about being a father. And the desire to see our children flourish and take on the image and like, so Christ and no God above all things, people, the number one question I get is, do your sons play football? And my older sons didn't, they weren't into it. And I didn't have the capacity as I was being a full time, everything to like, you know, I'm like, if you're with it, I'm with it because I know what it takes. And this is not, this is not my dream is your dream. And I think there were ways where I could have probably, I should probably should have dragged my, my sons into it as opposed to, you know, like I kind of made it their decision and I realized they probably wanted more direction. They probably wanted more than they even knew. So I think there's so many details in relation to raising up a heart, you know, you know, shepherding a heart, raising up a human that this journey for us has been our crucible. We've been homeschooled, my wife homeschooled for 15 years. And we're still at it. My youngest is 11th, but now kind of seeing both of my sons come to their own conclusions and, and, and awaken to know a fire for God. It's all worth it. The suffering, you know, that we didn't, we didn't do anything. We took no shortcuts. God didn't give us the liberty to take shortcuts. And when I say shortcuts, I think there's a route, there's a road map for everyone. But, you know, we certainly could have done some things easier, you know, had the kids in school, you know, like had two incomes, you know, raising them, you know, like so, you know, when you're, when you're an athlete, people think you just got it. And that wasn't my journey. I took some losses and I wish great to work, you know, you know, transition out the lead. So, but it's all worth the sacrifices and the sacrifices of righteousness, unto God, the sacrifices of things given, the sacrifices of praise that I can give my God have been a reasonable exchange. And I've been able to see the glory of God in so many different areas of our life. And that's been a joy. Yeah. I now think like one person sacrifices another person's investment, you know, it's like I'm willing to give this because I realized, like he said, like kingdom glory is always on the back end. Like I saw this Instagram reel of this married couple. They had like four kids, but then they had like 12 grandkids. And then now they have like 25 great, great grandkids. I'm like, that's that one couple that creates this beautiful family tree. And you know, you're already doing that. Yeah, that's amazing. I've always said posterity over prosperity. And I think that in posterity, there really is prosperity. And you know, like I said, there's a, I don't, I don't, I've never really perceived myself missing anything. I think, you know, there's a lot of tension, especially growing through your 30s where, you know, you want to have had everything. You want to have hit on all cylinders, right? And I feel like these last few years, I hit 40 and Lord sent this right into a wilderness, literally at 40 years old. I'm like, oh, nice. You know, you know, God has always given me the joy of seeing things happen with the spiritually significant numbers. Yeah, these moments of tension, where it's like, man, I, you know, wish I had the financial resources to do X, Y and Z. And but we were never, we never had lack either, right? So it was like, and I think the, the, the joy of the journey is what I've now been able to really embrace. And we're still going where, you know, like we felt like these last few years, there's been a wilderness that we're, you know, coming out on the other side of it. But the, the proven ground is that we're hits. The proven ground is that his grace is gone before us in every air of our life, seeing our children come alive in Christ. You know, my Super Bowl babies are 16, they're seniors and they're, they're lovely. They have the powerful testimony of being such amazing witnesses in their Christian school. Like, so when I, the rewards of what I've sacrificed for, I'm, I'm reaping, you know, everything that I've sold into in relation to, you know, building a foundation on what really matters most, I'm reaping. So, you know, I didn't reap into the marketplace for the last 12 years. I reaped into the kingdom and the family. Now, so I'm blessed, you know, as I understand better, more, there's, I think there's a, there's a, another season that got to bring us into to bring more value to bring glory to his name. There's something weird about that 40 number because like my life started changing at 42 and it's so much better now. And when people are like, oh, I missed my 20s and there isn't like heck, no, I'm not going backwards. I mean, I call it 20s, young and dumb and we, you know, you have the ability to obviously do more, you know, you're stronger about calls and young because they're strong. But I, you know, when I think about all the dumb decisions I made, they were right on target. Like, the brain, now we know the brain is not fully formed to 24, you know, I mean, young man. So it's like, yeah, you were dumb, man. And you're just kind of recoupling from poor decisions through the rest of your 20s. So by the time I'm 30, I'm, I'm starting to get, figure some things out and I'm still a strong and able to do a lot, but I have my hands full with a, with a rich and beautiful family. And so it's a beautiful thing. I feel like at the end of the day, when you think about these desires that God will give these dreams that we can dream, there's so much to bring to table. And I think the diversity of creation, the diversity in the body is where we can really kind of bring things together, right? Then you start to see the miraculous nature in God's splendor all through His creation. And yeah, I'm, you know, for me, I would, I wouldn't take anything back in relation of being, having this journey as an athlete, being able to call myself a champion. Every level, having, yeah, have, but also, yeah, taking the blows, right? You know, but taking the blows that come along with the human experience and being able to rejoice in them and not necessarily lick my wounds, I don't have real bitterness. And I think that, to me, that's the real, you know, for even all the losses financially, you know, whatever level, I don't have bitterness. It's like, you know, I want to punch a few people in the face. Absolutely. Like, man, can we, can we do it, Lord? But at the end of the day, I want him to be glorified and, you know, I know that he's going to avenge you, you know, in whatever ways that the enemy would attempt to steal, kill and destroy. I know that I, by God's grace that I can love my, like literally everything is possible in Christ. So I want, I'd rather have that testimony than, you know, and I'm not trying to necessarily, I don't have perfection was never on the table because I came in this thing, shaping it with aniquity. So, you know, I think, but the whole idea is I do want to be blameless. I do want to have the testimony of a son of God of being blameless, you know, so that I can continue to point people to, to that hope of forgiveness and mercy and, you know, and redemption that every human is actually looking for. So yeah, the journey's been been amazing, man, and I think that's, that's what's all about. What are you hoping for, faithfully? I've always been, you know, a bridge or a conduit, and, and I think just our own personal work and labor and, and we, you know, I would say the last two years I've intentionally been kind of coming out of it, because it's, like I said, sports is a human connector in a powerful, powerful way. There was nothing I ever tried to do, but it's hard to, you know, the value proposition journey has also been another deep journey for me, it's like, you know, everybody wants you to, you know, sign their gift, show up on, on a, on a Zoom call, like, man, my time is really precious, and I'm not the average Joe, and the average Joe is just as valuable in the sight of God. So yeah, that's been a big, that's been one of the weird journeys because I don't esteem myself, I don't look at myself the way others do, and I know that, yeah, I've been paid to be here. So it's just a weird journey as a Christian, because I don't, I don't really believe in Christian celebrity, but I do believe in value and honor, right? And I think that's another, that's been another value for me, because I'm like, you know, when it comes to pastors, I bless them, I love them, I'm like, by who you joking, right? Like, I think that's the, if Jesus could make himself of no reputation, and I think that's, if we're going to go, go back to where this hall belongs, and I think we can properly esteem, properly value in every area financially, emotionally, spiritually, but we could also humble ourselves, make ourselves a no reputation. So yeah, it's a weird thing for someone like myself, where do I show up, and for what, right? And, but I think, yeah, faithless, you know, I think it'd be a big part of those solutions and bridge gaps, where everybody can, you know, find out where they, where they belong to them, where they connect with, and I think you want to do that with brothers and Christ, sadly, so many people, a lot of my blows have come to people that, or call themselves Christians, or our Christian, and, you know, whether they're not, or whether they're broken, those are the things that suck, and if you don't find Christ, whoo, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, the flesh wants to do what the Spirit says no to tell you, you know, so it's like, don't sue the brethren, are you sure God? But I think, you know, learning to do diligence in the kingdom is a powerful thing, you know, like, yeah, we have to be excellent on all areas and not be naive, but yeah, it's all part of the journey, and I think God will get us there. Yeah, and the biggest thing that I'm taking away from what you said was like, you always got to continue to hold onto the promise of the pain. So even when you don't sue, like, God will repay you, don't worry, you know, he's not going to like, the, the, the parable about the birds and the lilies, like, that's always sticking with me. The last question is, how can we pray for you and your family? Man, um, yeah, I think the greatest prayer at this point is, I think that, um, we've seen so much of God's goodness, and I think it's really just about what God wants, you know, like, like, my family's in good health, great position. We're postured around the right thing and, you know, we've had this inclination that we're getting on the back side of this wilderness where God wants to bring a powerful harvest. So I think, you know, it's hard to be specific about it, but we do want to see a powerful financial harvest to the kingdom we believe in. And I don't, you know, I'm not a in time guy, but I do believe that we're on a, um, a different trajectory. They're powerful things that have happened in a nation within the last year where, you know, I'm not one of these well transferred guys, but we need resources to advance the kingdom. I've now have my hands in enough ministry where, um, I've seen that. And when you're, you know, in my own ecosystem of ministry, yeah, my father and the faith, I've made disciples who make disciples. So it's been a beautiful journey for me, and I really want to see that prosperity and that infusion of wealth into the kingdom where the true carriers, you know, vessels of honor can be equipped with what's necessary to continue to advance the kingdom, even things of the books and nature, whatever, however God wants to do it, we just want to really be equipped to do the will of God where it's not a striving, you know, I think that's, that's probably a healthy place of prayer that God would bring us into that place where we're just resting in his grace, we're in that rhythm of grace with him in relation to what he desires for us in the seas. Thank you, David. This was great. Appreciate you, brother. All right. That's it for the podcast. Bye, guys. Thank you for tuning in to the Faithly Stories podcast. We pray this episode gave you the encouragement you needed to continue on your journey. 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