Building Bridges in a Divided World - Bishop Robert Stearns | Faithly Podcast

Too often, Christians who might start out well-meaning, they get trapped into the vortex of social media algorithms that drive them into a deeper and deeper conspiratorial thing. This is the Faithly Podcast. Welcome to another Faithly Podcast. My name was Pastor Adam Durso, and I'm your host, and I'm sitting here with my long-time friend, Bishop Robert Sterns. Bishop would say, how did the audience? A too long time, right? It's two decades at least. Because we're still in our early third. A hundred percent. That's what's going on up here. All of it into the contrary. We're locked into our early thirties. I knew this interview was going to be easy to do. They were asking me questions. I'm like, we know each other so long. The event has been fantastic. Our relationship, our friendship, Bishop, if we work, viewing great things in the kingdom together, I'd still hang out with you absolutely. And so I appreciate all you've done, but I appreciate who you are. Thank you, your character, your integrity, your values. And that's great to have this time together today. And the feeling's obviously very mutual. We'll talk a little bit about why we're here on Capitol Hill in Washington DC later on in the interview. But my guest is an author and artist, a respected thought leader, a global ambassador. Bishop, tell us a little bit about your journey. How do we get there? Wow, I mean, you've got musical gifts. I mean, what I was first introduced to you, you were leading worship at a youth event that I was hosting, pre-the-call. And you know, you've sung a carnivore hall and you've done so many tremendous things. You were an author, a thought leader. You meet with global statesmen. What's this journey been like for you? I grew up in a traditional, we actually started out Southern Baptist. We ended up in an assembly of God church when I was in my teenage years. But you know, as you asked me this question, I remember an assembly of God youth camp and there was a speaker there and he taught us this little song and the lyrics of the song were, I'm gonna dream big dreams, accomplish great things, climb every mountain with God. And I think God wants us to dream big names. Yes. God wants us to not be limited by our self-image, by things that other people have put on us, by societal limitations. I have no business, sitting where I'm sitting, doing what I'm doing. I, you know, I didn't go to Harvard. You know, you and me both, you're right. But I did go to the altar. Yes. And I said yes to God. Yes. And then I often say on the other side of my yes, it got harder because after your yes is your test. And, but if you keep saying yes, if you just show up every day on your best days and your worst days and come to God and say, God, here I am, if you can make anything of this, you know, I give it to you. And so it's been a really unusual journey. I'm sure you're going to get into some of this, but I do find myself in the place of the intersection of I wouldn't say politics in faith. I would say government in faith. Sure. Because I think the issues we're speaking to are not political issues. They're transcendent moral ethical issues. Yes. Which is really where the prophetic voice of the church should be. But I didn't plan on that. It just kind of was an evolving journey. I want to give a lot of credit to Pastor Jack Haferd, who was my spiritual mentor and father, who taught me to be a bridge builder, taught me practically that, you know, write his famous son, Majesty. He wrote that in Majesty. Yes. He's not just King of the Church. He's King of the Nation. Yes. You know, I tell Christians so often, you know. God is not a Christian. Right. He's King of the world. King of the world. He's King of all of it. And it's my favorite study Bible. So this day is still the spiritual life Bible written by Pastor Jack Haferd, and you think about all the different authors in there. None of them would agree on everything. Right. And yet he understood that the diversity of thought was greater than uniformity. Yeah. It's going to take the whole body connected to the whole body to reach the whole world. Yes. And as long as we are divided along these really minute theological issues, right? I mean, when you look back, I mean, Jesus' prayer in John 1721, Father, that they would be one, even as you and I are one. And today, there are, this is a real number. There are 33,000 Christian denominations, 33,000 reasons we've found to be divided, to be divided. And because we're divided, we are not having the impact on society Yes. That we need to have. Yes. That's why we see evil running rampant. So I have tried, I'm sure many times unsuccessfully, but I keep trying. I've tried to build bridges. I've tried to reach out. I've tried to build consensus. And I've tried to help the church not get stuck in the, if I can use the term, you know, the, and I'm using this, I'm using this from my interactions with the Jewish people. You know, the word ghetto has a certain American connotation, but in a Jewish world, you think of the ghettos that the Jewish people were forced to live in, right? And Poland and, and Russia and Lithuania, they were forced to live in these very narrow spaces. We all have to get out of our narrow space, yes. And we have to begin to relate to one another. And that's Adam, that is one of the reasons you and I have always resonated. Because you are a bridge builder in the body of Christ, and you know how to take the values of the body of Christ and bring them like you're doing today out into the wider public sphere. So I appreciate you. Bishop, you've done this in so many facets of ministry. You've done it as a bishop. You've led, I mean, you've led younger leaders. You've spoken in government. But you founded an art president of Eagles Wings. What is Eagles Wings? And how did you, what, what was the impetus? What was the stimulus for starting Eagles Wings? So I always had this sense of a call of God, right? Grew up in the assembly of God youth group one to the University of Valley Forge and assembly God Bible College was an associate pastor and an assembly of God church. And I had this general sense of calling to ministry. But in the early 90s, I was invited to go for a short term mission to Israel. Now, I didn't have a burden for Israel. I never, like I was not the Israel guy. And it's just, I could have been going to Honduras. It was just like, oh, this is cool. Let's go to Israel. And I got there and it changed my life. I went for four weeks. I stayed for much, much, much longer. I stayed for a long time. I connected with a Bible teacher there named Derek Prince who had the privilege of serving and helping and worship ministry and other things in the later years of his life. The church there, Christ church inside Jaffa Gate. Anyway, I came back from that time in Israel and I knew that I had three values that would determine the rest of my life. And I know that I knew that those three values were the restoration of Acts chapter two Christianity. What did it look like in Acts two, 42 to 47? They devoted themselves to the apostles teaching. They met house to house, daily breaking bread, continuing the temple courts. I call that the Instagram account of the early church. If you wanna know what those first followers of Jesus lived like before the church became a business enterprise, okay. Look at Acts two, 42 to 47. So I knew it had to do with the restoration of that. I knew it had to do with building bridges of unity, Psalm 133, behold how good and pleasant and brothers dwell together in unity. And I knew it had to do with God's enduring covenant with Israel and the Jewish people. Those were the three values that were downloaded to my life in that time in Israel. And I didn't know the, I didn't know the wine skin that it would lift in, but I knew that was the wine. I knew those are the three themes of my life. I came back and talked to one of my spiritual mentors, Bishop Tommy Reed. Okay. It was an icon in the modern kind of coastal world. Absolutely. And I said, Bishop, I'm feeling to launch this ministry and can we do a conference? He believed in me. I was 24 years old. We launched our first Eagles Wings conference in 1994. And we had a thousand people show up at our very first conference. Wow. And that was the birth of Eagles Wings. And so now Eagles Wings, I mean, you've taken 40,000 Christians and a thousand pastors to the land of Israel. And to your point, it is life changing. I've been there overseas with you. Thank you for your generosity. Thank you, how you poured into me, how you've poured into other younger leaders that were not only on that trip, but it's been, it's your MO, Bishop. It's who you are. It's what you embody. Just selflessly, open handedly, always giving generously. Why is it such a chance I'm gonna drop you because that first trip changed me so much. Right. I wanna give that gift away. That was a definitive, it was like my whole life went from black and white to color. Right, went from cassette tape. That's right. And so it's like if we can give this trip away, if we can give this experience away to as many people. And of course, you're here at this gathering in DC and you've met now hundreds of these pastors, absolutely whose lives have been completely changed because Pastor Jacko has taught me. He said, Robert, there's five gospels, not four. He said, there's Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, and there's the land of Israel. And the land of Israel itself tells the story of Jesus. Wow, and it makes the Bible come to life. So 40,000 Christians, a thousand pastors, and it's the passion you resonate to get people so the land so that they can see it for themselves. Why? Well, and that's such the perfect question, right? Because the, and this is very, very, very frustrating to me. It's like something that daily frustrates me, is that people think, oh, well, Sterns, you know, he's that Israel guy. Oh, it's all about the Jews with Sterns, right? And I love Israel and I love the Jewish people. But if you reduce this to that, you've missed the whole point. Yes. This is about the identity of the God of the Bible. This is about the character of the God of Scripture. And as we live in a society in Western Christianity that is increasingly, Diblically illiterate. Yes. I'm sorry, pastors who have virtually no biblical training, no biblical accountability are getting their sermons on Saturday from AI, chat, GPT. This is the reality of it. This is the reality. And it's pop psychology filtered through culture. Yes, we are drifting into something really dangerous. Yes. So for me, the reintroduction of Christians to the land and people that our faith is from, it's the anchor, it's the root, it's the core. Of course, there's the blessing of standing with our Jewish brothers and sisters and standing with the land of Israel. But it's about knowing Jesus. Right. Jesus is not a Southern Baptist. Yes, Jesus is not Codic. Jesus is not a Methodist. He's not assembly of God. He's a Jew, right? And that matters. Yes. And until you wrestle with Jewish Jesus in his biblical, historical context, maybe you're serving another form of Jesus. Maybe that's close to an anti-Christ. I don't know. The Bible says, many will come and say, this is me, this is me, this is me. We have all these versions of Jesus because we don't wrestle with biblical contextual Jesus. And so that is really the driving passion of my life. And yes, Israel and the Jewish people are in that. And they're saying, I love them and it's powerful. Sure. But the drive is that we would know Jesus. Yes. And that we would make him know. Yes. I've experienced that and seen, that there seems to be this rise. It's part of why we're sitting here in the Capitol in Washington DC, but there's this rise of anti-Semitism that is just clearly evident. It's all over social media. It's all over TikTok. People are being formed through 30 second and 60 second clips and have no context for what's really going on. Why is it important maybe now, more than ever before, that Christians and Jews stand together to fight anti-Semitism? It's a similar answer in that I would say, yes, we're fighting anti-Semitism. But what are we really fighting? What you just described is a spirit that is attacking the image of God in every human being. Yes. If I can demonize the other, whoever the other is. Yes. And the other can be whatever in many different contexts. We demonize the other. Well, then I devalue the Amago Dei, the image of God in that person. That is a dangerous, dangerous path. And too often, Christians who might start out well-meaning, they get trapped into the vortex of social media algorithms that drive them into a deeper and deeper conspiratorial thing. So because we're not having conversations with anybody else, we don't humanize it. We're living in an echo chamber of just reinforcing whatever we already think. I'm social media through an algorithm. We never met a Jew. Right. We never met a Democrat. Right. Never met a Republican. Right. We never sat down with a Muslim. Yes. We have not humanized the other. I had the privilege of sitting on the Council of Governor of New York, one of her faith councils. And I was invited to a conversation about gun control. Now, I thank God for the amendments that protect our right to bear arms in this nation and et cetera. But that's not an issue or place that I've really spent a lot of time. Yeah. I walked into this room. I was the only Caucasian pastor in a room of 40 or 50 urban pastors. And I'm going to get emotional. And I said in that meeting, and I heard pastor after pastor after pastor say, I buried a 12-year-old right last month. And I've got a 14-year-old in jail because he was arrested with these arms that he had to buy because this gang member had the... And I thought, oh my God, I'm sitting in my suburban world having an opinion on gun control. And I am not even living in the same universe. Yes. Now, has that changed necessarily my legislative opinion or whatever? I don't know. I'm still not an expert in that world. Sure. But I'm telling you what? That humanized the story for me. That caused me to understand I better live with people in their reality, yes. Not in the TikTok or media sound bites. So taking it full circle to your question. Historically, if you want to actually be factual, students of history know that when a society begins to dissolve, the first symptom is that the Jews are attacked. Because the Jews always stand out because they're this tiny group that maintains their traditions, they are the other. And so we see this, this isn't just American, this is all throughout human history. So the reason it's important is because it's about the image of God in every person and humanizing those conversations. Is this a generational issue? Is it, are you seeing a decrease in empathy from generation to generation? Is it different from our age range to the 20 somethings? So I would actually say the opposite. Okay. I would actually say there's an increase in empathy. Okay. I would say these younger folks are deeply moved by emotion. They're deeply moved by a sense of social justice. But what they don't have is the counterbalance of truth. Right. They've been dumbed down through a very reduced educational system that has not taught critical thinking, that has not taught world history. I sat with a 27 year old yesterday and I took them to the videos where on November 29th, 1947 in Queens, New York, the United Nations voted on the partition plan and established two states, a state for the Jews and a state for the Arabs. And Israel said yes to the plan and the Arabs said no to the plan. This 27 year old looked at me like, I didn't know this happened. I thought the Jews came in and invaded Palestine. I didn't know there was a world vote. I didn't know the United Nations voted. We are living. So the empathy is there, right? Gen Z, all these different younger, they're very moved by social justice. They're very hooked by emotion and that's beautiful, right? We need more feeling. We want empathy. Yes. But it's empathy is not grounded in truth. You're off the, you're off the, it becomes your own issue. Exactly. And then you can just, any win that blows your, the most compelling TikTok video wins. Absolutely. Biggest influence occurs somehow. We think that, you know, the amount of followers somebody has. Truth. Exactly. And it's obviously not. Now, we're here in DC last night was amazing. Well, my first time being at a gala of that magnitude for the people that are watching and listening right now describe what happened last night. I would say three years in the making is the first one was three years ago. But the truth of the matter is, this is probably more like from 1994 to now in the making. It's true. And there were people in the room that would walk together since that he said, yes, amazing. Yes. So, yeah, it was incredible. We were at the Ronald Reagan Convention Center last night, capacity crowd, oversold crowd. Literally, you know, you say this, but literally standing your money. Or standing quality. People still didn't register. They didn't show it up and they stood there. Yes, they did. Re-hour event. No one left. No one left. No one moved. Everyone's on the edge of their seats. Jews, Christians, all the undemocrats, Republicans, you know, Asian, African-American, Latino, Jewish, everybody was there. And we're gathering together around core human values. Yes. And we're gathering together around freedom of the press, freedom of religion, the rule of law, protection for minorities. Every person should be able to feel safe in their own nation, in their own environment. And so, yeah, it was a continuation of this journey that started on that first trip to Israel and forging deep friendships. And so it's called Israel Advocacy Day. Everybody's invited next year. Okay. We're coming everywhere. We're gonna double. Let's invite everybody. That's right. Get educated, get involved, get connected. And it's really all about what you just said. It's about, and I loved that. I loved sitting there watching Filipino-American pastors. So reform rabbis who were seated next to, orthodox rabbis who were seated next to, African-American pastors. I mean, yes. A total eclectic mosaic. Lots of theological disagreements. On Egyptian. Core, well, and a lot of political disagreements. Sure. But core values agreement. No one should be afraid. Everyone should be allowed to speak out. No one should suffer intimidation and all these things. And it was just a beautiful, powerful night. Okay, so that was the gala. Yeah. And then today, today, we have 127 congressional appointments going on as we sit here, right? As we sit here right now, which is so powerful, the government of the people, by the people, for the people. And so many Christians have reduced their civic involvement to, oh, I go into a voting booth and I vote, right? They've advocated some responsibility. And we're turning. And we're turning to some extent. We're turning abdicate into advocate. Yes, we want to be here. And we want to speak to our electeds. We want to be involved and let them know, hey, we're watching. You know, you're here to maintain what has been known as America. And I would just say this, we have to fight. And it's another reason I love you and respect you. We have to fight for what our friend, Mark Gerson calls, the principled center. There are such extremes. Yes. And it used to be mostly on the far left, but sadly, and tragically, it's now firmly rising on the far right as well. Yes. And it is a demonization and a polarization. We have to fight for basic core human decency and values. And that's what we're doing. So right now, there are pastors and rabbis, there's Christian leaders and Jewish leaders, walking through the halls of Congress. Right there, right here, House of Representatives and the Senate, having conversations about what, Bishop? Having, well, we've got three primary things we're talking about today. Number one, we're talking about every American citizen should be able to live free from fear based on racism. And right now today, the rise of anti-Semitic incidents is, in fact, this morning, I don't know if you've seen it yet, in New York overnight. There were swastikas painted on Jewish daycare centers, synagogues. I mean, when you've got to go and terrorize four and five and six year olds, their moms dropping off their little kids, like, where are we? This is pre-Hitler, Germany. Yes. And so number one, we're taking a stand against anti-Semitism because we're against all forms of racism. Number two, we're saying that every House of worship, right? And this is churches, mosques, synagogues, temples, every House of worship. People should be able to gather without violent protests without, you know, there has to be a place that sacred means sacred and people should be able to gather. And number three, we're advocating for what has historically been the strongest alliance in American history, which is the US Israel alliance that greatly benefits both of our nations. And one of the unfactual stories on TikTok is, oh, Israel drains all this from America. America gets so much out of our alliance from Israel. Sure. And that's when people dig a little bit deeper and they get into the facts of the story. So those are the three things that we're advocating for here. So I've got my notebook. All right, my Israel Christian nexus, what is that? So we believe that pastors need to be today Daniels. They need to, yeah, we're in Babylon, right? We're not in, the kingdom hasn't come yet. Yes. And so we need to train pastors to be engaged in these issues. So the Israel Christian nexus is a network for pastors and Christian leaders. By the way, we are fiercely bipartisan. Yes. Democrat and Republican. Yeah. We are fiercely multi-denominational. Yes. We do not get together and discuss eschatology or glossolaleopathy, here we are. Go to that at Starbucks, right? Go to that somewhere else. We're here to talk about just these core human issues and galvanize around these core human values. And if we can start with unity there, maybe we can really make a difference in our generation. So if you were to look right now toward people that are watching, listening, yeah. And you would say, this is why I have hope. This is why I see Christians and Jewish relationship and providing freedom for people to worship. What is that? What does that look like for sure? Yeah. It's so beautiful because you were talking about last night and of course the Israeli national anthem is called Hatikva, which means hope. It's the national anthem of Israel, right? Hope, and then incredible. It's amazing. People that have come out of the Holocaust. Yes. Think of that. They come out of the Holocaust. One third of the Jewish population is burned alive and they write a hymn called hope. Wow. So where do I find hope? I find hope every day by looking to the Lord. I think our hope has to start there. I will lift my eyes to the hills. And that has to be not just a sentiment. It's got to be a reality. Absolutely. I find hope in the fact that we truly are, I believe this. I truly believe that we are seen in awakening in the body of Christ. We are seeing such sadness and such heartbreak and such misery in the Christian church, the American Christian church that has been rocked by everything we know that it's been rocked by over the past years. Out of those ashes, there is an Ember, there is a Remnant. There is a people who are authentically after the real thing, there after the Kingdom of God and God meets desperate hearts. God meets desperate prayers. Yes. And I genuinely believe that there is yet coming an awakening in America and on the other side of this God ordained judgment, this God ordained reduction, God's letting everything that can be shaken be shaken so that that which cannot be shaken can emerge clear and strong and true. And that gives me hope. So if you were going to speak to a pastor, a leader, people that have influence amongst Christians particularly, as a bishop, in with Christian spiritual authority, what would your charge to then be in this current day and age? And it's a car people that should know the day and the hour of what to do, what would you say to them as they're listening right now? I would say to pastors, to leaders, I would say, on a very practical level, some 122.6, do this small little discipline, add seven words to your daily prayer, I do this over meals. If you have a meal with me. Yes. The end of every meal, I say, and Lord, me pray for the peace of Jerusalem. Why? First of all, it's biblical. Second of all, it heightens it in my consciousness. And all of a sudden start looking and paying attention to things. I'm giving you that, I'm going somewhere with you. Add in that line and then do this. Get out of your comfort zone. Get out of your place. And don't get out of there simply on social media because that's the rabbit trail that you can go down. Get there relationally. Go to a conference you wouldn't think of going to. Reach out to a leader you wouldn't think of connecting with. Get out of your comfort zone and let God stretch you. And understand that he is king of the earth. He is ruler of the world. He is not only in our little sound bite place. And if you'll do that, if you'll say yes to the Lord, if you'll like that song when I was a kid, if you'll dream big dreams, God will meet your yes. And he will bring you. You are born in this generation for a reason. There's a reason you are right now on the planet, geographically, relationally, contextually, where you are. And then there's the seed that doesn't bear any fruit. And then there's 30, 60 and 100 fold. We want to go for the maximum impact. Yes. Bishop, thank you for your friendship. All of these 20 plus years, thank you for taking me to Israel. It was absolutely eye-opening. The example you gave earlier, it was like reading my Bible in black and white and now I saw it in color. You see it in the place. For the pastor, the leader that wants to expand their horizon and get to Israel, where can they find you? Where can they find eagles wings so that they can engage in this conversation? They're absolutely right. We're on all the social media. Robert R. Sterns, they can maybe put it up, but it's easy to find Robert R. Sterns, S-T-E-A-R-N-S, eagleswings.org, eagleswings.org find us there, call our office, email us. And if you are an established ministry leader to establish pastor, we've got a list. It's a waiting list right now. But we've got a list of pastors. We'd love to bring you into Israel and we'd love to invest in your life. We believe in you. And we believe we know that it's not easy. We know that there are pressures that face faith leaders today that are extraordinary, but help is on the way. God is sending help from his sanctuary in this generation. And I believe that God is raising up a remnant and that we're gonna see beautiful things from the church. This has been a faith-free podcast. My name is Pastor Adam Durso, I've been your host. This is Bishop Robert Sterns, the founder and president of eagleswings. We're here at Capitol Hill in Washington, D.C. So thankful that you watched and listened. God bless you.