Falling in Love With Children’s Ministry - Virginia Brennan

Welcome to Faithly Stories, the podcast that brings you inspiring tales from conversations with church leaders as they navigate the peaks and valleys of their faith journeys through their ministry work and everyday life. Join us as we delve into their challenges, moments of encouragement and answered prayers. The Faithly Stories podcast is brought to you by Faithly, an online community committed to empowering church leaders, pastors, staff and volunteers. Learn more at Faithly.co. Get ready to be uplifted and inspired as we unveil the heart of Faith through stories from the front lines of ministry on the Faithly Stories podcast. Did you tell me a little bit of how your faith journey started? I came to know Christ at vacation Bible school at my grandmother's church. My grandmother took me to church and third growing up and it was at the summer between 3rd and 4th grade. I heard a very clear gospel presentation about our sin and about our need for forgiveness from Jesus and I understood as a nine year old child that I was a sinner and that I needed that forgiveness they were talking about. I was very, very shy. I did not want to go talk to an adult, but I didn't know. But in the pew in front of us were kids who were a year younger than us. And I saw my best friend's little brother and he responded during this invitation time to accept Christ as an adult. I thought, well, if he's not afraid, then why am I afraid? And so I accepted Christ during VBS that summer. I later, I was about 13, 14 years old, got involved in a church that I consider to be my home church was there through my teenage and college years. In college felt called to vocational ministry. I ended up going to seminary and during that time in seminary really fell in love with children's ministry and just understood the importance and the value of reaching kids young and helping them build a foundation of faith. Really from their earliest days to carry with them into adulthood. And so I've done a few different things that I've mostly been in vocational ministry, children's ministry since then. So what was it about at the age of nine that like sin hit you, you know, to a point where you realize I need a savior. Yeah, well, like what was the sin? I mean, not exactly at nine years old. You know, I had already been attending church with my grandma already. So I'm going to church, going to some of these schools, I'd already been hearing some of these messages and hearing some about the gospel and about Jesus. They explained it the way I think it was a youth pastor probably at that time. Um, he had this little cut out of a little paper person and he scribbled on it with a sharpie marker and he said, this paper person can't get rid of this sharpie marker. Any more than we can get rid of our own sin, we need Jesus to forgive us, you know, to be our Lord and our savior. And so I mean, even as a nine year old, I knew I knew I disobey, like I knew I'd disobeyed my parents, I knew I'd disobeyed my teachers. So, you know, I knew that I hadn't done everything right and I had experienced, you know, feelings of, you know, disobeying or doing something that was wrong or telling a lie and then feeling guilty about it. And so, so I knew I knew that I was a sinner and I wasn't perfect. I had done things that were wrong. And I mean, whenever I talk about it with children, I whenever I conviction and feeling conviction, I say, it almost felt like a physical, like God was squeezing on my heart. It was so pressing and I just knew that I needed to respond in that moment and respond in obedience and follow Jesus. And so, so yes, it was, you know, the gospel was explained to us, kids at VBS in a way that was very understandable for us. And then the Holy Spirit just convicted and and led me to salvation. So very grateful, very grateful for VBS. And so to this day, I like to share my testimony with VBS volunteers and just really encourage people that children's ministry makes an eternal difference in the lives of kids and people. So how do you go from that and nine to seminary and in between like what did walking with Jesus like for you? I got involved in my home church whenever I was about 13 or 14. I started learning, started learning consistently like in Sunday school classes, started learning about spiritual disciplines and having a daily quiet time reading my Bible each day. And then from there, I went into college, not knowing what I wanted to do. I was going up. I was kind of, I definitely was like a nerd. I love stuff like model United Nations and, you know, I was a math elite and like all that kind of stuff. And I thought it's going into college. I thought, well, I think law school and being a lawyer is something that I could do. And I really don't know what else to do. So I'm just going to kind of move in that direction. I was very involved. Before we get to college stuff, what made you interested in like model you were and because it's interesting that you had a young age were kind of interested in political dynamics. But even now no one cares about politics because it's so divisive. So it's like, you're like, oh, I love debating and like getting into it or you're like, oh, this is cool about like geopolitical stuff. A pre-existing model you went program at our school. My friends and I just kind of got into it. We definitely did the research elements of, you know, researching, you know, you pick a country that you're going to represent. And so researching that country and, you know, researching, you know, different issues that we're going on at that time. And so it was just, it was just an activity that we had at our school that my friends and I got involved in and just enjoyed doing because, you know, we enjoyed just that kind of international stuff. I ended up throughout my 20s going on a lot of international mission tricks as well. So I don't know if those two are connected necessarily, but it was just something we did for fun. What country did you research? It's been a long time since I was in high school. I think we, I did it two or three years and we read a different country each year. I want to say that I was like, I think, Angola in Africa one year. I think I was Germany one year. So it's, and it's been a long time. And the world was a different place. You know, 20 years ago, nearly 20 years ago, and I was in high school. So was it the fun part of being with your friends? Or was there something actually about, like, understanding different cultures and countries? I don't know about both because that same group of students, we also did this program called We the People, which was like similar to United to model UN, but for like United States, like politics and policy. I think it's one of those and got to, you know, travel the different events and competitions and and that kind of things. So we did I did at least enjoy the research elements and writing and composing arguments, which is kind of why I leaned toward law school and college. Writing and research and composing arguments and ideas. But then yeah, there was also the element of doing it with my friends, which was, which was fun. So are you interested in politics now or is that like in the past? I, I would say definitely whenever I was in college, I end up serving, I served at our church in our Wednesday night at one a ministry. I was very involved in our college group at church. We had an on campus formalization, Baptist collegiate ministry. I was very involved in that. And I just I loved doing all of that. And I kind of at the same time as I was taking practice, else that I was also thinking, man, I would love to just take a couple years and like go work at a BCM on a college campus for a couple years before I, you know, like have to go to law school. What's the beef you. I was at our, our BCM, our Baptist collegiate ministry. We had an event on Wednesdays where we would serve lunch for a dollar and have guest speakers and a local children's minister was sharing her testimony about feeling called into your locational ministry in college. And as she was sharing her story for me, it was just kind of like a bolt of lightning. I was like, oh, I think that's maybe what God is doing in my life. You know, after that, I started talking to you, let my college pastor, our BCM director and assistant directors. And I was like, I think, you know, I think this is what God's doing in my life. And so from there, I ultimately made the decision to pivot and go to seminary and scrap law school. So, wait, so what was it about her story that resonated with you or what point of mystery? Just hearing, just hearing about her experience and just realizing that that I think that what God did in her life, calling her an ministry was what God was doing in my life as well. And one of the things that she said, because there's a lot of it that I don't remember in the particular, but there is one thing that she said, she said, remember that you are always form of called to Christ. Your assignment and what you're called to do may change over the course of your life, but remember that your foremost calling is always to Christ. And so that I definitely never forgotten, but just listening to her story, I just identified with it and I was just like, wait, I'm doing in my life. That's okay. So in seminary, did you think you're going to always go into children's or was it just kind of like an open field? I came out of college, loving collegiate ministry, just because I'd loved my own experience. So, so much and so good for me. But I went straight into you a preschool and children's ministry internship when I started on my master's degree. And that was really where I was like a whole wait a second if we can effectively reach and teach kids here and give them a firm foundation in God's word. And by the time they get to college, we're not having to, you know, uproot a foundation that isn't going to last and that, you know, isn't built on, you know, the solid rock of Christ. If we can give them that from childhood, what a gift, what a gift to give our children. And so it was during that time when I started on on my master's degree and doing that internship where I was like, oh, this is so important. And so that was really what changed my trajectory into children's ministry. So you seem like a person that loves analytical thinking and logical consistency, just based on, you know, did you ever run into challenges in seminary or had questions or was it kind of a brains intellectually or at least biologically? It's kind of a yes and no in that. I mean, there are always going to be so many things about God and about his attributes that we're not going to be able to fully understand and reconcile. And so I think some of that was just accepting, you know, just accepting me like, okay, like I'm never going to fully understand God. And I wouldn't want a God that I can fully understand because then he wouldn't be worthy of my worship. He wouldn't be holy and set apart and so far above me. So it makes sense, you know, that his ways are higher than our ways and his thoughts are higher than our thoughts. And so, so, you know, I think I definitely enjoyed, you know, some of the lasting challenges and seminary, but even some of those things that, you know, are hard to explain or understand about God, I just kind of accept and understand that that's just kind of part of it. Well, the reason why I asked is because I went to seminary 2 in Westminster, Philadelphia, and they're very like, quote unquote, actually, they're really very rigorous, which I can attest to. It's not easy. But I think even it because I went in when I was like 25 or 26 and I graduated when I'm 30. So it's my late 20s. But even then, like, I didn't know too much. I wasn't a good student. So I just kind of accepted the things as they are, but I had questions because I would hear the other sides of arguments. And I loved the fact that my seminary was black and white, but it wasn't only after like years later, out of seminary, and I got exposed to other things that I realized, oh, I didn't even know how to challenge these points of views. And so I just took it as my own, but slowly over the course of the next 10 years after seminary, God's been really refining my understanding and making more simple, if anything, and adding more to a heart about the person of God, rather than just the theological arguments. And so I guess I was just curious for you because you see very intellectually strong, right, that if you were able to kind of filter through like inconsistencies in arguments, or if it was like, oh, no, this makes a lot of sense. And it just helped you propel you for, like, your love for Christ. Because the ultimate application of my seminary education has been within the field of, you know, children's ministry. And so with children's ministry, we want to take the most core theological concepts and explain them as simply as possible. And so I would say a lot of my time, is it necessarily, you know, I don't know, debating this subset of theology or that or, you know, in times or whatever. But it's been taking this key theological concepts and breaking them down and explaining them very simply to wear an elementary age child can understand each of these pieces of the gospel or, you know, of scripture. And so, so really my application and my focus was on wasn't even necessarily in that area, if that makes sense, just on explaining simply what God's word means. I love that you said that. I mean, I did children's ministry to for five years in the last three years as a preschool director, and I had to do a sermon three times a week. And it's hard. You want people don't understand doing a five minutes sermon to preschool kids. Really hard, because you got to use less words, right? Yes. Yes. I want to hear your experience of what was your process of like, or did you just automatically, I was like, oh, this is easy. I can explain to any kid or like, did it take you time to get that at the seed of the gospel? I've been and will be, I'm sure until I die, a work in progress of of learning how to communicate scriptural truths and gospel truths to children in simple ways. And so there's, I mean, there are a lot of great resources out there and there are a lot of great things out there. But it's definitely been a process over years of learning how to explain things simply and break things down simply. So yeah. What are some resources that help you? Well, so many, so many resources out there. My, my favorite for sharing the gospel in particular is I really like life ways the gospel God's plan for me, because it takes children it starts with God as creator. And takes children through, you know, through, okay, you know, God is our creator. He rules. He makes the rules. He gives us instructions on how to live and how to obey him. You know, and we send, we disobey God. But he gives us this opportunity to be saved through Jesus. And then we respond to it. And so I like that it's very simple. It's broken down very simply. There's is like for kids, what is a Christian is a good thing for when kids are asking questions. And they're kind of you can tell there in that phase where they're thinking about the gospel and they're thinking about what it means to follow Jesus. So that's a great resource for kids and for families. And then after they accept Christ, I'm a Christian now. So the what is a Christian, the amicrician hour, both workbooks. It can be taught as a classic church. It can be done with kids and parents doing it together at home. So those are just some great resources for sharing the gospel and before and after kids accept Christ. So beef and your experience, what's been the most fulfilling or best thing about your justmanship? Were you leading kids to Christ? Definitely seeing them have those sort of light bulb moments of, you know, understanding scripture. I'm understanding coming to you like a new understanding that they didn't have before. So those are definitely the favorite things leading kids to Christ and then watching them, watching them learn and watching them grow in their faith, for sure. What has been the hardest challenges is a lot. But I think probably the most the most challenging aspect of children's ministry is working with adults. The kids are easy. Volunteers takes a lot of work and a lot of skill and a lot of times a lot of skill development to become an effective leader. Being with families or with parents, sometimes it can be just complicated situations and complicated dynamics there. And so I usually say that the kids are easy. It's the grown ups that are more challenging a lot of times in children's ministry. So what is your thoughts on a like a ministry of philosophy kind of way of getting parents involved in the teaching because it's great that like a church might have an amazing chosen program. But at the end of the day, they have to go home and if it's not reinforced at the home, it's kind of a wash. Not to say it's not important, you know, you got saved that of VBS. But still, like, how do we create that environment where we're like parents, we need to be one you like, I must supplement to actually what you're trying to do. So how do you go about that? I think that is in how we view our role as children's ministers. And so I don't see my role as being the primary like teaching or, you know, the primary sort of spiritual force and a child's life. I see myself in my primary role as coming alongside volunteers and equipping them to teach well, coming alongside parents and equipping them to teach well. So there can be a lot of different ways to do that through classes for parents to just help them understand the Bible to help them know how to teach their kids to help them deal with, you know, current issues of their kids are facing like with social media and just everything. And so I think having opportunities for parents to be equipped is super valuable. I think having resources for families, you know, put materials that parents can use in the home or having recommendations or books they can borrow or check out. So I think trying to offering classes in ways for them to become equipped and then also offering resources for them that they can use within the home are two very practical ways that we can help parents, you know, in their role because they are there in the primary recyclers of their children. And so we want to just like you said, come alongside them and encourage them in that. And just in whatever ways we can. What kind of classes do you do like specifically for parents or volunteers and like what do you feel like has been the most effective strategy, you know, when you say classes people run classes very differently. So what's been helpful to you? So I've done a few different ones. I've done one that's just, it's just a class that I, I made about child development and spiritual formation. So walking through, you know, each sort of age and stage of child development and different things that they can do with their children, you know, in the home to teach them to lay that foundation of local understanding. I have also, so I've done that for parents and for volunteers. I've also done for volunteers, a great resource from Robert and Laurie Cross, the about trauma and form children's ministry. They have a great book and then I also have a great training resource for volunteers, which is like a four module training thing for volunteers of trauma and form children's ministry that is wonderful, absolutely wonderful. There's a combination of things that I've created, things that others have done. And at our particular church, we offer disciples of classes on Wednesday nights. We have ministry for all ages on Wednesday nights. And so that's typically the time whenever I would do these classes that are, you know, anywhere from six to 10 weeks for parents on those Wednesday nights. Are these all in person or some online? The ones that we do are in person. We haven't, you know, at the churches that I've been at really attempted online small group classes or small group disciples of classes. So in person, but the podcast as well, we'll share a lot of information, but yeah, I'm definitely more used to teaching in person. Now I'm with you. I think they're just such a value of being in person, but with the world that it is, I'm just curious as to what people do it online, what has been effective. That's another question for another audience. Okay. So for you now, how long have you been in the children's ministry, your local church? I've been in a few different churches about eight years or so local church ministry, but spread out across multiple churches. So at my current church, I've been here about a year and a half. Okay. How's that going? It's been a time of a very exciting time of just growth. I, towards the end of a pastor search season in term season, and then we called the new pastor who has a young family is just wonderful pastor. We're in a very exciting time of growth with that with with our new new-ish pastor. He's been there a little over a year, about almost a year and a half. So what, sorry, let me think through that. If I've been here a year and a half. Anyway, it's been a very exciting time with the, it was our new pastor and just a time of growth in a season of growth. So yeah, it's been good. And what's the podcast about us is with myself and then another friend of mine from seminary from my doctoral program. She and I were our two children's ministry people in our cohort in our doctoral program. And so we just came fast friends. And about two years ago, we decided to start a podcast just because we love children's ministry. We love equipping volunteers and leaders to serve well in their churches and in their children's ministries. And through all education we went through and honestly just sort of being mentored by people and discipled and invested in. I feel like I am just a steward of that. And so I want to steward all of that investment well by sharing it with other people that can benefit from it. Because that was one thing just sort of being the doctoral program I thought, you know, there are so many people all over the world who are way smarter than me. And you know, they're just never going to have access like what I have to get this kind of education that I've gotten. And so I want to steward this like this is a gift and I want to steward it well. And so so part of our podcast is just stewarding well the gift of education and you know learning everything all that we've learned in children's ministry and just trying to share it with others. So how long have we been doing it? So we started about two years ago, but we started releasing episode the little less than two years ago. So so two years we're going to say, this is your first podcast or do you have experience from previous at a short lived stint on on a previous podcast on a previous women's ministry podcast for about six months. And so that kind of so that was with a different co host, but for the children's ministry podcast that kind of gave us a little oomph to jump in and give it a try. So how do you guys record your podcast yard? Handles all the like you know technological stuff with that I just kind of show up and talk. Did it take a while for you to kind of catch a group or it was kind of seamless for you. In some ways it took a little while to get into a group, but we were already such good friends that it was really just sort of sitting and talking about very practical things within children's ministry that we honestly probably have already talked about anyway and just recording it and putting it out there. You know it's funny the most like most of the podcast I listened to that's like the origin story of like it's just us talking and we just started recording and they kind of love because everyone's he's dropping on our conversations so that's great. So what is your hope for the podcast moving forward just like a resource and content of education or do you want it to be open to it becoming more right now it's essentially a I call it in ministry slash hobby because it's you know we just going to do it on the side because it is something that we are passionate about. I think we we would be interested in that but we I don't know again we're just to like just we're just two children's besters like talking and recording it so we're not sophisticated social media marketing people or anything like that. But really you know I think as we are going through our doctoral program there was kind of I think we both sort of had this subconscious thought like okay if we want to train children's ministers you know to go and do ministry effectively that means we're going to end up being professors one day right like we're just going to be a professor or she college or somebody or something. But then I think God sort of opened us up to see that there's this whole swath of people the majority even who serve their churches faithfully weekend and week out and they're never going to go to somewhere they're never going to set foot on a Christian college like that's you know they serve on the weekends and their children's ministry because they love it and they have you know a whole different job during the week and so. There's so many people who have a passion for children's ministry are never going to do a vocationally but they need resources and help and encouragement and so I think God just sort of opened up the door for us to see that there's this whole swath of people who we can reach and help and encourage without you know having any sort of formal professional title or you know working at a college or seminary or anything like that and so yeah so I think God just sort of opened our eyes and opened the doors for us to hopefully try to equip people who may never go to seminary may never even get to go to a children's conference are just going to serve in their small church faithfully for years and how do we equip them so. So what are you doing now you're just doing that and the podcast anything else going on in your life I'm in working in vocationally in my local church we do the podcast you know on the side as a as a ministry I come in a wife and have preschool age children and so yeah so that's kind of that's my life. So that actually brings me to a question with now all your formal training and experience now it's like in your own home like do you have a different approach or are you being like open to a new awareness that you didn't have before like how has been a mother or changed your perspective. It's been interesting because I went into it thinking that because I have a lot of formal training and like child development and things like that I thought oh me and this is going to be so helpful and not that it hasn't been. But it's one thing to know and understand that a behavior is developmentally appropriate it's normal it's normal you know to have to be a toddler and like lose your mind in the grocery store but also it's sort of like but what do I do now. So that's been the question of like okay I understand you know maybe what's happening or why this is happening or that this is normal and appropriate but also it's like but how do I respond how do I handle this so so there's definitely been plenty of challenges and I'm sure there will be plenty more. You know in just figuring out how to parent little humans. Yes funny yeah like the world up here is always different than the world that it's a heart and it was like oh we. Yes. Yes. It's different. Yes. The theories when rubber hits the road and the theories become not so theoretical it's like oh boy yeah. Yes Mike Tyson one sense everyone has a plan until they get punched in the face and you're like what do I do now. So yeah I asked this to everybody how did you meet your husband. Immediately after graduating finishing school completely and graduating with my doctorate I went and worked in higher ed administration at a small Christian college. My husband also worked there are there all past our past and really cross with the college but he was the bivocational you pastor at the church where I attended and where I joined and so we got to know each other through that church. We were dating and got married so we met at church really. So what about him? You see us. Gosh that's a big question. We served together and I started sort of helping in the student ministry fairly early on in my time in the church. And so we had served together in the ministry probably for I mean a year year and a half for for a good while before we started dating. And so I was able to watch him just as a person and just see how how he worked with the students. See a little bit of how he worked with college students at the university. And so I got to see his character and his heart before we even started dating. And really once I mean fairly early on once we started dating I was like you know okay like like like this is it this is the guy we have similar. Just sort of goals and and on a similar sort of life trajectory. And so it was just I don't know the largest sort of made it clear that like okay you know I put you two together you know for this purpose so. What's one thing you understand the after being married that you wish you knew before getting married. There's nothing that immediately comes to mind and part of that is probably because I was I don't want to call myself older but I was an older bride and ever we got married I was 31 whenever we got married and so. And so I felt like I at the time whenever we got married you know I had already lived a lot of my adult or I lived you know significant amount of adult life. And going into marriage I knew that communication would be super important and communicating and being on the same page and clear about finances would be super important and so. There were a lot of things that I think just because I was already I'd already. I'd already lived a lot of adult life that I was kind of aware of prior to getting married and so there was any like huge surprises though if that makes sense and then also because I had known him you know for so long prior to even dating and then of course dating getting married so I felt like I knew him very well prior to being married as well so I don't know. No, that was a perfect answer because we gave all the things people in the 20s should understand my communication and take your time assessing if he is a good and genuine and honest person and you did that already yeah so you prepared yourself well without even realizing how well you got prepared. So is he a pastor now is actually a Christian school teacher so he teaches high school Bible and loves that so he again has a background in doing some student ministry but then once he became a teacher he was like oh no like I love this. Because he says no he gets you know five hours of week with with his students you know with each class of his students whereas and in student ministry you don't even get that much you know you get maybe two hours a week at that for two or three even and so he's like me and he's like I just have such as an opportunity to really pour into my students and and disciple them and and invest in them. So effectively so yeah so he really enjoys that. It's a really good point we need more teachers not more pastors because they spend a lot of time with him. Oh yeah this is true. Are you planning to homeschool your kids or send them to public school and what are your thoughts on that? Well Wilson and so since my husband is a teacher at his teacher at a private Christian school so our plans are just to send them to his school so yeah so they they will go to the Christian school or my husband teaches and and that is something that is important to us. For us there's a lot of value in having them in that educational environment all day long where they are going to be you know scriptural truth is going to be poured into them you know they're going to be learning the gospel from a very early age it's going to be supporting. You know what we want them to learn in the foundation we want them to have you know in Christ and so yeah so so that's our plan is for them to go to Christian school where my husband teaches and and that's a very intentional plan on our part. But if that school was it available and only public schools are available would you send them still send them to school or would you reconsider homeschool. Because again you know 100 years ago when I was in school I was like man but was fuller fine what's people still. But man the world has changed a lot um and so you know i'm not sure what we would do I don't know um I just because people people tend to look and be good oh you have like all this education you you must want to homeschool you must want to you know teachers children i'm like. I do have all this education but I don't know that I you know obviously if the Lord called me he would empower I don't know that I have the natural personality the natural bent um to be you know effective and passionate about homeschooling. Yeah I think people forget this is why we have scholars and then we have like professionals because there's a difference between learning and understanding and then doing sometimes really hard and you know leave with the professionals to do the thing i'll be here teaching you how to do it between teaching the Bible and teaching multiplication or algebra or you know I don't know many of that stuff. I have some final questions even more personal what is your fondest childhood memory um probably. I was very imaginative as a child and um probably one of my fondest memories and I guess it's sort of a collection of memories is i had a beloved american girl doll i had a molly american girl doll and so millennial women will. I thought well no who molly is um and so it just loved playing imaginative games you know with my doll and her going on adventures and doing all kinds of things. And so you know probably just um just that imaginative unstructured play of childhood. Is is one of my fondest memories and one of the greatest gifts that I think that we can give children today is just time time to play so. I completely agree um something that's been like being reinforced in my life is this understanding god created us to be like him in his image but also like as a creator. And for us we can't create like out of nothing but we can use our imagination to create things and you think about everything that's been man made. So we thought of it either because they want to solve a problem or they thought it would be cool right yeah yeah. I don't know where we get to this like age where we tell kids to stop imagining and start like living in reality right it's like no that's where all the joy is it's in their creativity. Absolutely what is the best parenting advice you've got um this goes for parenting this goes for a lot of things in life to. Start with the end in mind and so it's so easy to be very reactionary in parenting and ministry leadership. But if we start with the end in mind whatever our goal is and let that form the way we approach things right now. The fact wording was it was I think I read it in a children in a book about parenting about starting as you mean to continue so this is the long term goal then start that now start in accordance with that now. You undo what you previously done or you're not just being reactionary in the moment you know you have sort of a plan and a strategy and so not that that is a lot easier son than done in parenting or in ministry um because there's always going to be some weird curveball that you're like what do I do with this how do I handle this. But but yeah just start with the end in mind so I love that you said that because that's been like my singularity now and like I feel like the words the last past year has become prepare to see me face to face so it's like okay and that kind of changed everything and then you reverse engineer everything and then all the things you thought were urgent now like. But this and it's going to happen so and because that's Christians we have a guarantee right I don't know anything else all I know is I'm going to see Jesus right this side of the other side and that kind of real lines the important things so I love that you said thank you man. What are you hoping for a faith Lee say opportunities to connect with other people who people who I may never ever meet you know in person in this line. People who I probably wouldn't meet otherwise and so I would just say opportunities to you connect with people who I wouldn't cross paths with otherwise. Are there any specific like category of people or in a specific field you would love to connect with. What's connecting with other children's ministry leaders and people who it's very interesting to me just sort of like the thought leaders of the day of you know where where society's heading where technology's heading you know trends and leadership then just all that kind of stuff is very interesting to me as well I'm not you know I'm not out there projecting anything or in the middle of it I just like to listen to what I'm doing. People have to say in all those areas cool how could we be praying for you and your family like with praying for our family just you know this is such a simple thing but also it's not just good health and good health for our children because we're definitely in that preschool phase where they all like sneeze on each other and just it's just a constant germ fest. And so just good health and then just you know in ministry just keeping up with with the growth and trying to get ahead of the growth in the ministry and be prepared for growth. So I guess those would be the things and you know just discernment from the Lord because there's always a million good things or good opportunities or possible you know good ways of doing something and it's just and I feel like the you know becoming a parent and leading a ministry all that just seems to multiply of like oh man there are like a million options. Like okay Lauren just show me show me which one so we want to do. No I totally get it which is why like you said you need to have your North Star because you always want to test it's just getting to the North Star or it's a DVD. Yeah thank you this was great. Yeah thank you. That's it for the podcast guys. Thank you for tuning in to the Faithly Stories Podcast. We pray this episode gave you the encouragement you needed to continue on your journey. 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