Home Is Where the Heart Is - Ashley Bailey

Like when people ask where I'm from, I'm like, well, I was born in Canada. I spent most of my life in New England and then it moved all across the country. So I'm like, I don't really know where I'm from. Like I can go to any of those places and it feels like home to me. You know, the cheesy thing of like home is where the heart is. But like it's really true. Home is where your people are. It's where like the love of Christ is. It's whatever you carry in your heart. Like that's where home is. My name is Ashley. I am a mom. I'm active wife. I'm a staffer of the mom's house. I'm not so small. I live outside of Seattle, Washington, and this is my hatefully story. Welcome to Faithly Stories, the podcast that brings you inspiring tales from conversations with church leaders. As they navigate the peaks and valleys of their faith journeys through their ministry work and everyday life, join us as we delve into their challenges, moments of encouragement and answered prayers. The Faithly Stories podcast is brought to you by Faithly, an online community committed to empowering church leaders, pastors, staff, and volunteers. Learn more at Faithly.co. Get ready to be uplifted and inspired as we unveil the heart of faith through stories from the front lines of ministry on the Faithly Stories podcast. Can you just start by sharing your faith story? How did you come to faith? Yeah. I grew up in New England and went to church somewhat regularly, but it wasn't a really big influence in my life. As a kid, it's kind of something that we did every now and then. When I was in middle school, age 14, my parents got divorced, and that really shook my world as a teenager. Even though at that age I could kind of see it coming, I was just really at a loss. I leaned into friends as many teenagers do, and thankfully found friends that were connected to a local youth group and started going to church with them without my parents. That was really the last thing on their mind when they were going through their divorce, but I really needed community. I went to a group with some friends and ended up going on a retreat and accepted Christ at that retreat and really contribute youth ministry to my youth pastor and my friends to really helping me find Jesus. And it really just came at such a pivotal point in my life, and then went on to go to the university that's connected to the nomination where I was attending youth groups, and now my husband served in that denomination as a pastor. So it's really come full circle. He was a youth minister before becoming a lead pastor, and so I really am such a big advocate of youth ministry. It's beautiful because that kind of reminds me of my own story about youth group, and I'm trying to put you in a lot of ways. So what was it at the retreat that made you finally convinced just to give your life over? Yeah. I feel like it's cheesy, but as a 14-year-old, I just remember the phrase of feeling like there was just this gaping hole in my heart where the world was ripped out from under me with my parents divorced, and really finding a lot of fault with my earthly father at that time. We now have a great relationship, but the divorce was primarily on him, and so I was really struggling with that relationship. And so even though I've heard about God and Jesus, you know, most of my child, that I never really understood what that meant. And so I just remember at that retreat, we talked a lot about dying to self. Remember that was a big message, and also just the reliance on God as our father, and not really hitting me at that time in my life when my earthly father had just kind of failed our family. And yeah, just needing some relationship and support during that time, and that's really when the Holy Spirit conducted me. Are you an only child? No, I'm the oldest with two. My brother's four years younger than me. How was it on him? It was harder on him because he was 10 at the time, and so I think we both processed it in our own way, and even now being married and having three kids, like after my third child, I really had to like re-wrestle with some of what that means, and how that divorce affected me, and like growing up in high school as a single mom, and what that looks like, and how that shaped my perception of motherhood. So I've done some work on that recently, but yeah, I would say it's harder on my brother, and I don't know if he has had the space to process that really well. He's accepted Christ, but he's got a harder faith-lock and relationship with Jesus than I do right now, and so yeah, it's interesting today. And then he's a parent as well, so it's interesting to see like how you, when you become a parent and when you get married, how divorced will this come back up from childhood? How old is he now? He's 33, yeah, and then 37. I'm 40, going to be 41, and I recently, like in around Christmas, reconnected with my dad, so my parents divorced, but it was like way later, it was like when I was in like seminary or college, so long ago. So I was actually really thankful that they stayed together, even though like literally they fought every day. The fact that even the fact that they're fighting together, I realized looking back, I don't know, it just created this stable unit, even though it didn't stable internally. But it wasn't until I like reconciled with my father, forgave him for the past, and really God had to work a lot in my heart to want to have a future with him, you know what I mean? But for the longest time, I thought, oh, I forgave him, I don't have any animosity, but there was like no room for him in my heart. I created that room through some suffering, and now like a huge weight came off my shoulder, I didn't realize I was carrying, and I think internally there was always a sense of like, I wanted a fatherly figure approval, right? So that's why I always attached to older men and whatnot, but I realized it was because like I had that kind of authority lost with my heart. Only when I reconnected, I was like, oh, that missing piece in my heart was just with my dad, and it kind of worked out. So all that to say, I want to encourage you and your brothers, it will take time and God will work. And I think when that happens when you're in those formative years, it's tricky because you are relying on this person, and as kids we often think like, I think maybe more so when I was throwing up versus my own children, because when I make mistakes now with my kids, I apologize to them immediately, I tell them I messed up, and I think with our parents' generation that wasn't so much the case, it's like my way or the highway, and I always, I saw my parents as like, not perfect, because I knew they were fighting, but also I think I held my dad up on a pedestal. He was an airline pilot, his whole career, super smart guy, so generous to others, and still is, but that really shook me to find that he had been and wrong, and I was angry towards him, and so that was hard that I had to, like it took years, and I did forget him and reconcile, and now we have a good relationship, but, but yeah, it's hard when someone like that in your life, really like that pedestal is like taking out from under them, even though you're the one that built it. So you're mentioning how like it shaped the way you see moms, especially seeing moms with your mom. Could you kind of elaborate on that? Yeah, my mom is a super strong, independent woman, but not someone who like wears her heart on her sleeves. She actually is a New Yorker, so she's pretty thick skinned, and so she never, like we never really, and still don't have like a super open, we'll talk about anything relationship, which is really shaped how I mother and my kids, like our generation, we do, we're learning to do a better job of like talking about our emotions, and mental health is on the rise, and it's normal to talk about these things, where it wasn't when I was growing up. So that's really shaped my motherhood, and then just how I see moms and single moms, especially like that, is probably now that I'm a mom, I can realize that she was doing the best that she could with what she had, being a single mom and how difficult that must have been for her. Because even though like I was pretty independent, my brother, like we're really self-sufficient kids, and kind of had to be growing up with this single mom that was working full-time, like when, for instance, as my husband's out of town, and I'm home alone with three kids, and I'm like on my own for a week or so, like that is hard, and so I can't imagine her doing that all day, or doing that all the time, and even before their divorce, he was a pilot, my dad, so he was still gone a lot. So I wonder if she never, she was just in survival mode, and that's why there wasn't a lot of like, not nurturing, but just not a lot of warm connection, because she was just doing the best that she could, and she had so much carry on her plate. Yeah, I totally agree. I mean, for the longest time, I believe my mom, because there were moments like, she discipline me, basically, and she would like, not show up here, but looking back, with the whole context of being married to my dad, and just, you know, I totally get it, because like, when I get angry, I lose my stuff, too, and so I'm like, man, like when I think about it, like she was a single mom, because she was not like, like, you know what I mean, legally single, but like, it was mentally stressful, in a safe place, so like, she really did the best that she could, and now it's like, night and day, where she's a little too loving, and a little too annoying, so it's like, oh, okay, I see, when you get healed, like, there's just so much joy, and a lot of that's brought out. Yeah, so thanks for sharing. So, how did you get connected with Momco then? Yeah, so I started volunteering, or I started attending a mom's group six years ago, when my, no, sorry, longer than that, seven or eight years ago, when my middle was a baby, she just turned eight, and we moved across the country, I mentioned my husband's a pastor, and our joke is that God doesn't call us less than 2,000 miles apart, because we've, he went to seminary in Chicago, our first call was in Texas, and that's where I was a full-time art teacher, had two babies in Texas, and knew that I was missing something. Come on, I came to motherhood and friendship, but was working full-time and just didn't have the bandwidth between that and being in your mom. And then from there, we moved to Connecticut for his next call at a church, and that church had a mom's group, and at that time, I started staying home, stopped teaching, and just stayed home with the girls, and super thankful, we had the ability for me to do that, but then found myself in a totally different role, in not a new state, because I grew up in Connecticut, but different part of the state, so I really didn't have any friends there, and so got involved in the mom's group, already knew Jesus from being a teenager, and obviously involved in ministry with my husband and pastor, but really found friendship that sustains me through those first early years of motherhood, when babies aren't sleeping or, you know, kapati training, all the struggles of young parenting. So join their group for a year, and then started serving on their leadership team, for the next four years. Then we moved across country again, because God called us, again, to a different church, and so now we're outside of Seattle, where our church here had a mom's group, it stopped meeting during the pandemic, we moved here two years ago, and so I helped relaunch it at our church, and then had the opportunity to join staff this past March, so it's been 10 years, or 10 months that I've been on staff, and that's been, it's just been really cool to see how God moved from like getting involved in this organization, lighting a fire, and like how important it is to support mom, serving on leadership, and then stepping onto staff, which really like embodies our mission statement as an organization, so pretty cool. What is your mission statement? Our mission statement is that we would encourage and equip moms of young children to realize their potential as mothers, women, and leaders in the local church, and in relationship with Jesus. It's just been cool to see like, I feel like God's giving me the ability to like really live that out, like finding friendship and motherhood and also like support in my motherhood, like I often say like, I can't be a mom without Jesus and mom, and then feeling really supported as a leader, and then also just being able to like see how a local mob trip will positively affect a local church, especially when your husband's on staff, and you really see the impact of it, it's been really cool. So what do you do for moms exactly? I work on the church engagement team, and I oversee the Pacific region, so I've got the West Coast, Nevada, Alaska, and Hawaii, and so I connect with churches in those states, both pastors and the lay leaders that are interested in starting mob groups, mom co-groups, and also like finding areas where there's a high need, which really is everywhere. And then areas that have a high need to have a lot of mob groups and reaching out to churches to see if they're interested in partnering with us. So what happens in these groups? Yeah, so a mob group, typically meets twice a month, it could be less, it could be more, it's really up to the local church. They meet for a couple hours, their child care provided, because we recognize moms, while we love our children, we need a break from them, and we need time to connect with each other. And so kids have child care, and buy the lessons, and then we have some sort of food, whether it's breakfast, or a daytime meeting, or dinner, or dessert for an evening meeting, and gathering around the table, for conversation, and then there's a speaker, or a video of like any broad topic of motherhood that's really accessible to all moms, because we don't want to assume that every mom that comes to mob is a believer. And so we talk about things that really moms want to talk about, or are already talking about, but don't really have this time or space to have like meaningful conversation with that. Whether that's things like mental health, or parenting, or marriage, or worry, like all the big things of motherhood, even if it's like a tattooed meal plan, or how to like logistical stuff, and also like really emotional stuff. And then yeah, just time to dialogue, and build relationships with each other, and like really find that tribe that everyone says that you need when you're a parent, but you don't know where to find it. I love all the things you're saying, because anyone who knows me knows, like I have a huge heart for moms, probably because like, I think it was just a way for me to give back, because when I was younger, I always wanted to help my mom, but I couldn't, right? So now that I'm older, I had this capacity to help, and so I was always the single guy hanging out with moms, because I did preschool at church, I was a pastor. And so like, you know, if any of you guys are watching this, you know who you are, like how do you convince moms who are maybe hesitant to join a group that you don't know, because a lot of this is like, it feels awkward joining a group that you don't know anything about, but like, you know that it would be so beneficial for them. So what would you say to them? I would say that if you're feeling lonely and motherhood that you're not meant to do it alone, and really taking a brave step into community and friendship is really the best thing. So you can do for yourself and for your family, because our families need us to be healthy as moms, and if we're lonely and isolated and don't feel like we have any friends or support, or are just finding that social media and not in person, that just take the brave step and say yes to trying something new. I've had so many moms walk in the door of our moms groups that don't know anybody, and after a meeting or two, just feel like so welcome and loved, and that's what we want to do. We want to show Jesus to all of these moms, but they walk away feeling like, okay, I can do this, and I have friends that can relate to what I'm going through, no matter what age or stage their kids are at, and that if something comes up between meetings, there's always someone to call, and we want to be that tribe and that village for each other that we know we need, but we can't really find. So yeah, I would just say like be brave and take a bold step and mothering is hard enough and not to do it on your own. Can anyone start a maps group or a mom co-group? Yeah, yeah, anyone can start. It doesn't matter how old you are. You could be a younger mom. We have moms that, and the whole mom posting is fifting away from our organization's 50 years old, since her mother pre-schoolers, which 50 years ago, pre-school wasn't an institution. It just meant like before school. And then we realized that all moms need support no matter how old their kids are. I've got kids in elementary school, and I know it's just going to get harder from here, in terms of issues we have to tackle with them, and so it's not like, you know, for sure, early motherhood is life-changing and that's when we really find that moms are more open to. Community and talking about faith even, but the whole mom co-shift is community. The co is short for community, and so it's really the mom community no matter how old your kids are. We would get questions from moms that wanted to join, and they would just assume that if they didn't have a pre-schooler, they couldn't come, but that's never been our organization's mission. It's just a 50-year-old name that we've kind of outgrown, so we're really excited about it. But yeah, any mom can start a group by at a conversation yesterday with a mom who went to mom when her kids were little, and now she's working full-time and her kids are teenagers, and she wants to start a group for working moms. We have mentor moms, which are like either grandma, age, or moms that have kids in college, and empty nesters, and they have a place because we need to know that won't survive this whole parenting journey, which never really ends, but to have someone of an older generation poor intestines is really important too, and so I've had even mentor moms start groups. Yeah, and oftentimes our groups meet in churches, but they don't have to. They can meet in homes or public places like libraries or the YMCA, and call those community groups. So we want to have a group available for every mom that wants to join one. Do you guys offer like resources on training or it's like, yeah? Yeah, we offer lots of resources because we realize our moms are busy and they're juggling a lot, and so we want to really equip them well, and so we have curriculums for the meetings. There's a theme that comes out every year, and I've got a dozen videos that come out along with that theme that you can show at your meeting, and then there's also probably about a dozen leader videos too that just the leaders can watch and grow in their leadership development. The videos that you can show up meetings have discussion questions and meeting plans that come along with them, so really it's like, it can be plug and play if you want it to be. That's what we do with our evening groups. And then we also have a lot of groups that will use in-person speakers, and they'll bring a therapist in or a local doctor or something like that to come talk, and we even have a mom speaker network where you can leaders can go in and search by zip code and find speakers in their area or speakers that will do it on Zoom to come talk as their mom's group. That's another resource. And then we really want, if we put a lot of emphasis on supporting our leaders and really encouraging women and moms to realize their potential in leadership, so we have executive leadership coaches on staff that connect with all of our group, coordinators, and do you like the leaders of each group and they meet in a cohort style, so once a month they hop on a Zoom call, have a leadership training, and then have time for like reflection and question and answer. And that's really nice, because like being a leader can be lonely at times, and you feel like you're doing it all by yourself, and so it's nice to be able to connect with leaders across the country that are doing the same thing as you are and going through the same curriculum and having the same issues or celebrating the same kind of wins, it's really cool to have that support. Yes, we offer all those resources. Well, yeah, that's why we created faithly, because we realize a lot of people are figuring out on their own, even when they're doing it themselves. I'm like, why is this harder than it has to be like Zoom? Who has the experience? Like, who made this mistake already that I can learn from? Exactly. Yeah, and like minute, like my pastor, my husband, the pastor, and so like ministry leaders have that same struggle, where churches can feel so isolated and their pastors can, because they're still focused on their congregation, which is important, but also like, and thankfully we have a supportive denomination where he can reach out to other pastors and stuff, but it's good to have connection with like local pastors in our town too that are in different denominations. But it's hard, because pastors are busy and they don't have a lot of time to carry that relationship and building. So faithfully great, because you can just hop on there and connect. I think what you guys are doing is awesome. Yeah, you can kind of think of us as like the momko for ministry people. Yeah. So we're trying to do it, except we're not meeting in person. Yeah. How has motherhood like changed you and challenged you? Yeah, we'll find you. That's a good question. My oldest just turned 10. It's hard to believe I've been a mom for 10 years. But gosh, I think they, my kids have taught me just as much as I hope I stop them. I feel like before I had kids, I used to think I didn't have enough time. And then you have kids and you realize like, oh, I don't have any time. And you just, but God like really create the time and bandwidth. But I also think motherhood is really focused on like, help me find what's most important. I think growing up, I didn't have a lot of presence like my dad was a pilot so he was gone a lot. My mom, as we talked about, single mom, trying to do all the things. And so I think I've learned a lot about what it means to be present with my kids. And I know I can do a better job of this. But it's taught me like, please just slow down and enjoy the states that they're in. And I know that every state is difficult, whether they're not a baby that's not sleeping or my 10 year old that's got a preteen attitude already. There's sweet spots in every season in stage two. And I think my husband does really a job of this too, but just learning like what it looks like to have fun again and to see the world through a kid's lens is a lot of fun too. I totally agree. I think one thing God has repeatedly reminding me throughout this last year is, what it means, not just to have a childlike heart, but a childlike curiosity. And like, I didn't really understand what I met until I met my nephew. It's funny because my nephew is going to be seven soon. And his first year, like, to be very, very frank, I didn't care about him because he was just some drunk kid baby that I didn't have an attachment to. Right? And then it was, after like, I took some time off, and I just had a lot of time, like I visited him, and I, like, I'm not with him, and then baby's at him. And then like, I started growing to love him, but it's mainly because I saw a little bit of my personality in him, because I'm like an extreme extrovert, and my brother's an introvert, and I'm like, oh wow, and more and more as he grows, I'm like, oh, that's so fascinating because I'm learning so much about myself with him, and his interaction. And now that he's like six and seven, and he's always like, what's that? What's that? What's that? And then he's like explaining. I'm like, oh, that's kind of like how we are to God. Like, what's that? What's that? Yeah. Because it's not like a, why are you doing this, or like, like a judgment against my intent, but it's more of like, oh, I have no idea what that is, or why you're doing that. Can you just explain to me? Like, oh, when I approach, like, scripture and the world that way, like, I don't know, he just kind of gives me this understanding, and I've been doing so much that way. Yeah. It's cool having three kids, I mean, this lot of work, having three kids, but it's also really cool, because they have such different personalities. And when they, especially my girls, when they were younger, I thought, well, that's pretty similar. And as they got older, I was like, okay, they are so different. And I can see so much of me and my middle daughter, and so much of my husband and my oldest, and how we connect with those two is different. But I also need to realize, I need to pour into my oldest too, and there's definitely things that she does that are a lot like me, but it takes more intentionality with her, because she's so much more like my husband. But, and then there's my son, who's like, this high-speed mix of both of us, and he's a lot of fun. But also, yeah, it really shows like the beauty of God and how our, there are three very distinct personalities, reflect different aspects of God and different aspects of their parents. Yeah, it's just that like collective, beautiful humanity in one house. A running joke, I had a winner, my friend. She's the mom, right? Because she looks exactly the same. I don't know what it is with her genetics. It's when you're growing up. But all her kids are like teenagers. And we ever, we tell each other like, do you ever like wonder like, who are these kids? Where did they come from? Because it's so weird to us that like she has grown kids. Because mom and dad, we're still in my youth group. Yeah. Yeah. I know. Do you ever worry or have concern about them growing up as pastor's kids? Oh, that's a good question. Yes and no. I talked to my, because I didn't grow up as pastor's kid nor did my husband. And so I've had friends that are the same age mine that did. And I have had conversations with them. I was like, what does it look like to grow up and be like a healthy pastor's kid? And also like so many pastors get to walk away from the church and how do we, not in like how we support their faith because we know it's their faith. It's not our own. And so we put a lot of emphasis on like, you know, church comes first, but it's not out of obligation instead of, like just explain to our kids, for instance, like why we moved across the country so many times and what it looks like to have God call you to a new place and a new house. And like my oldest has been in three different elementary schools. And what is like, why do we keep doing that? And just I think continually talking about like the faithfulness of God and how he keeps showing up for us is really important, but also I think just making sure that they know that church is like fun and we love what we're doing. Because I've talked to a lot of friends who grew up as pastor's kids and it just felt like such an obligation that I never want my kids to feel like that church or faith is an obligation and I want them to know like, obviously first and foremost that Jesus loves them. But that he and church can be a lot of fun. And it's where we put our priority as our family. So yeah, I think what I worry about the most is like them not owning their faith. And so already we talk about that a lot and like what God is doing in their life and not so much like forcing it on them. But I don't know if any of that makes sense. But yeah. No, it makes complete sense. Yeah. Even for me, like the reason why I stuck around a church a lot was because it was like the one place that was like a stabilizing force. I mean, looking back now, I just like appreciate like a pastor staying for like, what was it? Six, seven years of my youth because like turnover is always high with youth. And so just having him as like a spiritual mentor. And like I moved a lot too. Not states, but within my city. I was changing schools too. And the tough part was when you're friends constantly change. Right. And when you're at that age, like I grew up without like cell phone or like the internet. So like you lose touch very quickly. Yeah. Yeah. But the only friends that stayed the same was that church. And so that really helped a lot. Yeah. And the other kids are they feeling the effects of. I lost touch or because we live more in the technological age. They're able to keep close. So how does that contribute to your kids? They have a few friends that they keep touch with. From Connecticut when we moved a couple of years ago. They write letters more than they do. Like I did sign my oldest up for like Facebook Messenger kids or never in Chile is that every now and then. But that's more. It's more like her old school mates from last year versus across the country friends. And I guess we just have to like we're taking our kids to be intentional with both like writing letters and also like touching base because they don't have their own phones. They have to use ours if they want to use Messenger kids. But I think the really cool thing about moving across the country for a ministry is that you have that building community and you get there. Like I can't imagine moving across the country for any secular job and having to find that community. Like it can be done. Obviously people do it. But it's such a blessing to just have that family of believers that like want to welcome you in and want to get to know you. And thankfully like especially at our church right now we I don't feel a lot of pressure as a pastor's wife to do X, Y and Z. My kids do not fit the mold when it comes to like well behaved proper pastors kids like they are high energy outgoing children. And my church family will often say after Sunday morning like it's so good to see them. And they like love my kids for who they are. Which is such a blessing. Like they're never like talk down to because they're not behaving properly because they're dads of pastor. And they even this past Sunday I was feeling pretty under the weather was a migraine and really didn't feel like going to church. And my kids were up and dressed and ready to go to church before I was. Which I was like okay we'll go. Because like who doesn't want that for their kids. And so it's just been really cool to see like that's the place they want to be. And if forever sick you're out of town like they really do miss their church friends. And yeah. And those have been consistent with the recent in town moves. Which has been a total blessing. I have a personal question. Not that all of these are personal anyway. Right. But you mentioned how like you know the divorce shaped you know. Kind of just you're you're thinking in your world to you. Because for me. Yeah. I really feel like it. I don't know in good way or bad ways. But it did definitely influence me in how I saw a significant other. Right. Yeah. And like. Like I didn't realize I had all these attachment issues and abandoning issues. Okay. So for you like navigating that and meeting your husband like. Yeah. Yeah. Or did it like help. Like how was that? Yeah. We talked about that like right off the bat. And I think it's because he comes from a total different upbringing. His parents were happily married. His dad did pass away. 13 years ago to cancer right after we got married. And so that rocked us in a totally different way. But when we got married, we said like divorce is just never an option. Like I learned from my parents what I don't want to do. Which I think a lot of us do that. But that like marriage is going to take a lot of work. And there's going to be hard spaces. And there's going to be easier seasons. And even right now he's like sick. And he's going to kill me for this. He was snoring in bed last night, which he never does. He is like solid, quiet sleeper. And I had to sleep on the couch last night. So I'm like, I can't sleep next to you. And you woke up this morning and he was joking. He's like, but for illness. What does it call for better words? For health and sickness. And I was like, you can be sick. But I don't have to sleep in the same bed as you. So anyway, like there's going to be hard seasons. Like right now, like ministry is really hard for us right now. And we're going through our own house season. And we've just learned in these last few months to lean into each other even more. And that Satan is real. And he is on the attack for. Honestly, I've been noticing technology failed more and more, which convinces we were closer to the end. Right. Okay. So as I was saying, yeah. So we're going through our own hard season. And we've just learned to lean into each other even more, like praying together a lot more than we did before. And we're going through our own hard season reading scripture together, like even communicating better, which has been our biggest struggle in our marriage of communication. And also that like the enemy wants to win, especially when you're in ministry, like he's a pastor, I serve for a non-Christian nonprofit, like he's on the attack. And when we can recognize that and realize like, no, Satan, you're not going to win. We're not going to be divided in our marriage. Like that. While we're in this hard season is really, it's not something I would ever want to walk through. It's not something that I'm going to let Satan win over. So I think when it comes to marriage and divorce. I think what I've got going for me versus my parents is like a much stronger faith foundation and an evenly-yielded marriage that they didn't have. So I think that's a huge, just like a huge way that not I'm winning, but a huge way that we're succeeding in our marriage versus our parents. Yeah, I mean, the thing, the words that keep repeating over my life is my parents' generation, they were just learning how to survive. And now we get to bear the fruit of that as they contribute and we're able to thrive. And so that actually helps me to reframe all the things in the past, not in a bad way, but like it was just a necessity and they did their best. I need to honor that. And I need to honor that by living a better life now, you know, not to say I'm better, but it's because I stand on their own shoulders. Right. I completely agree. Yeah. And I think you've generation just want to do better than the next. And I think we, especially in our adolescent can think like, oh, we're going to do it better because you guys have really messed it up. But I think it's not until you hit adulthood and parenthood, especially that you're like, oh, now I can see what they were going through. And now I can realize like, yeah, that they just did the best they had. And I think it's really mature to go to your parents and say like, you know, to recognize that. Just to verbalize that, that yeah, like I may have seen like you messed up, but I also know you did the best you could. And we're just trying to mess up a little bit less every generation, both as a generation and for kids. Yeah. So God's been redefining the word home for me because I think for so long, I was trying to run away from home to find a new home. But now that like, in a funny way, like he made me stuck at home with my mom. I was in the lab now at the last two years and I had to move back. And it's just a little process, but I convicted my heart to like take care of her. Okay. I feel indebted to her when that, but yeah, like that really pushed me to reconcile with my dad. And then now I'm slowly incorporating out of love for the way she is. And so in a funny way, like for me to like long for home, God showed me home is wherever you are. And if the family that he gave me and to be reconciled with them, you know, and it's always not about running away from the bad things. But like, can you stay in the bad place? And as you change, then you can now start changing your relationship dynamics. So that no matter where I go, I can always carry home with me now. Instead of always trying to find that perfect home. Yeah. Yeah, that's good. It's like when people ask where I'm from. And I'm like, well, I was born in Canada, spent most of my life in New England, and then I've moved all across the country. So I'm like, I don't really know where I'm from. Like I can go to any of those places and it feels like home to me. And like, you know, the cheesy thing of like home is where the heart is. But like it's really true. Like home is where you're very true. It's like home is where your people are. It's where like the love of Christ is. It's whatever you carry in your heart. Like that's where home is. And I feel like it's because God's teaching us. That's what heaven feels like. So we don't know where it is. We don't know what it looks like. It's going to happen, but we have a spiritual experience of this warm, fulfilling, wholehearted, like,ness around the people we love and that environment is home. And I call everybody like, I have no idea where heaven is, but I know what it feels like now. That's so funny. You said that because we were just on an airplane as a family and we were flying above the clouds. And my eight-year-old looked at me and she said, we're about the clouds right now. And I was like, yeah, like the clouds are there. The sun is here. And she goes, but then where's heaven? And I was like, I don't know how to answer these questions. Like we can't. And I just said, like, we can't see heaven because we're not on that side of it yet. Like we're still here on earth. So. Yeah. I mean, what I would tell her is, when you feel loved, you know that it's from Jesus. That's heaven. Because wherever Jesus is, that's where heaven is. Yeah. Yeah, I had a lot of practice at preschool because my first year was really hard because I had to do like a five-minute sermon three times a week. Yeah. To explain, like, glory to a three-year-old. The Trinity has been a really tricky one. Like how can it be Jesus and God and Holy Spirit all at the same time? Not like that is a hard question to explain to a three-year-old. The best explanation I heard was just like we are human, God is a certain kind of being. So there's human beings and then there's God, right? And so within that category of persons, there's three persons who is a father, son, and Holy Spirit. So. Yeah. That's just the simplest way. So there's three persons and they're all God. It's just like we're human, but your, my daughter, I'm a mother, and this grandmother is a weird person. Yeah. Yeah. That's true. Good point. So, did you know that your husband was going to be a pastor when you met him? That's a good question. No. So he graduated. He has an accounting degree and he has a BTS degree from undergrad. There were 12 theological studies. And so he thought we got married before I finished undergrad. I'm one of those like classic Christian college, got my ring before spring. That whole deal. So we got married between my junior and senior year, which I was just talking to my dad about this. And I was like, well, that's it all worked out. We've been married 16 years. We're going strong. I'm like, but my dad was nervous about that. And we just knew it was the right time. And why wait any longer. Anyway, when did he tell you why he was nervous about that? I think he just told me because he just knew I was so young and he wanted to make sure I could enjoy my 20s. I mean, my 20s are just like grow up a little bit more. But like being the oldest kid in a divorced home, it kind of forced me to grow up a lot younger than I would have liked. Which my dad also has recognized in the past. But my dad and I were talking about like parenting. And he did say like, I'm so glad you guys, we waited like seven years to have kids after I got married at age 21. I'm really glad I did that because we really liked them to enjoy getting to know each other. And those are 20 before children. It's a huge life change. But all that to say, when we got married, or just before we got married, my husband was trying to find an accounting job. And he had so many interviews in a time when like the accounting industry in 2007 was booming in Chicago. And all the trends out of undergrad got jobs. And he like came so close on a couple of interviews, like down to the final candidates. And he just could not get a job. And so that was always like not his passion, like his passion's always been ministry since he was a teenager, which I kind of knew in the back of my mind, but wasn't really prepared for that to become reality. When he could not find an accounting job, he was like, well, maybe I'll just go straight into seminary. And that was kind of his like five, 10 year plan at that point, but he's like, if this isn't handing out, let's see what happens. So within like two weeks, he was accepted and enrolled in seminary. And like everything changed and he was like, okay, I feel like this is what God's calling us to right now. So yeah, I thought I was going to marry an accountant and then I stopped marrying a pastor. But it all worked out. So our first year marriage, I was just thinking about this last night, it was crazy. Like I was in college, mostly student teaching, but had a full course load working part time. He was working part time and in seminary full time, like I don't know how we survived, like merely by the grace of God. But it was a lot of fun. I call those the training years where I throw you in the fire and you're just like, okay, just around. Yeah, and you look like I'm like, oh, you are preparing me. Yeah. Yeah. Totally. Like I don't know how we paid the bill back then and didn't only eat ramen noodles, but we did it. And it was fun. Yeah, so he did seminary because Master's of Divinity in three years, he went like year round through the summer. And then he went straight into ministry after that. What would you say as a young wife, right? For people, because you know, people are pushing marriage further and further. Yeah. Yeah, based on your experience, what would you say? I know it's always contact, um, context dependent on the people. Yeah. Like what are the advantages and disadvantages or like the benefits and challenges of being married earlier than later in your opinion? Yeah. Um, I think the biggest advantage to us getting married or young is that we went through a lot of developmental, like, stages together. Like the year early 20s in college and outside of college just after college are huge, like life changing times. Um, so to look back after 16 years and realize like he's been by my side and I've been by his during that whole time. And to see how we've changed as individuals is really awesome. Like I can, I don't have the best memory in the world, but he does. And so he can like recall, you know, how I was only first got married and how God is like working in me and how God has changed me. And we'll often like remind me of that and encourage me where if we had gone through those times, like just dating, like it's just not the same. And just to have like a lot of shared life experience too, like again, could have done that when we were dating, but it's just different when you're married and you get to, you know, go on vacation or go through his dad dying, for instance. Like if we had been dating, that would have been a completely different experience than being married. I don't know. And we just had a lot of fun. Like I think the whole thing is like people think like marriage isn't fun and like that's the end. But like we just made sure we had fun. And you know, he always, for those first seven years, he was ready to be a dad. Like he's always wanted to be a dad. And so it was a lot of me like, nope, I'm not ready yet. Like let's be waiting. But that all worked out too. So yeah, I can't really think of any, because I don't know any different. I don't know. I can't think of any. Oh, that was perfect. That was perfect. Thank you. So this question I'm going to put into context because I went to seminary and in seminary, like you went to Bible college, like, yeah, those girls are like, like on the hunt for a pastor. Now we thought that was weird, right? But on the flip side, you know, like there are Christian girls that are like, so like, like hesitant against like marrying a pastor. So there's these two extremes. And both of them are sometimes really overwhelming. I was like, why do you think that way? Can we just be like friends? Get to know each other. It's not about like what you do. Yeah, what would you say to somebody who's like, only looking for a pastor or someone who's like, has it to be a pastor? If you not thinking you're marrying a pastor, but he became a pastor, I think I would say like put some self reflection on yourself and your own personal identity and not hide someone else's because like pastors are walking away from the church, like left and right. And so like, why would we put why would we focus on like I want to marry a pastor not like find the person that's right for you? And that's what we did. Like he was he's completely the right person for me. And he just like happened to do a major right turn in his career. Kind of too late. Like we were already like committed to each other and it's not like I could back out then. But I also think like I think in the early years of his ministry in our marriage, I did a lot of pushback when I would like be introduced to pastor's life. And I didn't want this like, you know instant connotation of what my life should look like or how I should act. I think especially in our church now, like it's just such a healthy place where I can just be Ashley, you know, I'm sure people seem like they still see me as a pastor's wife, but not like the typical traditional pastor's wife of our parents generation. And so I would just say like, like don't look at it as either it's the worst thing in the world or it's the best thing because like ministries are being a pastor with super hard calling. And so I would say like find your foundation in your relationship first and who got us called you to be and who got us called your marriage to look like and like found like find that foundation in Christ in your marriage, not on jobs or titles or anything because all of that can change and really the only constant is Jesus. So why not found our marriage on that. I'm going to end this podcast where a few or a couple of questions. What is your fondest memory from childhood? Hmm. Oh, that's a good one. I spent a lot of time in the summer with both my aunt, she lived on Long Island and my grandma in Canada and I think my parents gave me the gift of being with those relatives. I also gave them a gift of giving themselves a break once a week each summer. So those are some of my fondest memories and I think that gives me a lot of comfort and when my son like spends extra time with his grandma's right now because I'm working full time and he's still in preschool. Like instead of finding guilt that I'm not with him all the time, I'm finding like no, he's making memories with his grandma that are going to carry him through and I've got those similar memories with those relatives in my life. That was just like the highlight of my summer each year, especially my aunt, Long Island, like she was a lot of fun. She didn't have her own kids, she passed away pretty recently and I just like have such fond memories of like ways that she would just make my time with her son that as an adult I'm like that really probably wasn't that much work. I thought it was the best thing ever, like whether it was like the beach or the pool or just like going shopping for a whole day like it was a lot of fun. So we just hang out. Yeah, just really like hanging out and having one on one time with my aunt and like go figure my love languages quality time so I think that speaks to why that really made it impact on me. Is there anyone you would want to reconnect with that you lost touch over the years? I lost touch with a good number of my high school friends and that I am just in awe of the people that like are still really good friends with their childhood friends. So I actually my best friend from high school is in Portland so not too far from me and we are going to have the chance to be together in May after a long time of not even hearing each other's voices. So I'm really excited to look forward looking forward to reconnecting with her and she just became a mom a little over a year ago which is wild like she really did like delay marriage delay parenthood all the things and so I'm really excited to reconnect with her just in a totally different context of being mom. That's awesome. One last one last last question but like one last personal question. If you can have dinner with one person that's flipping or dead who would you be? Not you. Okay. Okay. One person living or dead. Oh gosh. Okay, so I love the crown. The Netflix series. So I would probably say Princess Diana like because she I remember I wasn't I heard that she died and like even though I'm not British at all like she just had such an impact on people but also watching that show and realizing like oh man like it was not all since and she went through so much stuff. So yeah, I don't want to. Just like. Oh gosh, I think I think like why would you like self I don't know I'd ask her like ways that she could do better at taking care of herself. I think I've learned like she tried to advocate for herself but you know push had a lot of pushback from the family and so and also just like she was such a good mom and I think I would probably ask her questions about motherhood. What do you enjoy about being a mom? What was hard about being a mom especially in the position that she was in and I think like what would you do differently? Especially you know she died at a pivotal time for some ages so what would you tell them now that you missed out on telling them when you were alive things like that. Yeah, that's great. Thanks. I'm going to steal those questions. What are you what are you hoping for at faithly? Just better connection among believers and church leaders and yeah just people in ministry that feel like they're doing it alone. Connection and I think also in moving across the country I found like the nuances of the different pockets of our country and culture and things like that and so learning more about west coast culture where I am is very different than the other parts of the country I've lived in and also learning like what the needs are from pastors and church leaders that we at mom co could do a better job. Is equipping them with or helping them like meet the needs of their community so I'm just really excited to connect with people. And how can we bring for you and your family? As I mentioned we're going through a hard time in ministry and so just be praying that God's faithfulness continues to show up that God keeps showing up and so praying for that and that this year would just be fruitful in our ministry. And also just our kids like they they're ever changing like as a parent you just always feel like you're playing catch up on what they're going through next and so I would say like pray for my oldest she is a super genuine loving kid but having a hard time with like math and phonics and and just how I can best support her in her academic when she doesn't love it. And then my other two kids just yeah like how to best parent them in the ways that they need it and also like I was saying about the other day how our parents have to parents have to discipline each kid so differently and parent each kid so differently because of their different personalities. So how can I better be flexible in my parenting with each of my kids but also be fair and also like just show Jesus to them every day. I didn't really study until like junior year of college and I didn't finish a book until seminary so you'll be fine. So just encouraging you it's it's a life is very long you know so yeah yeah for sure. Thanks for this. Thank you. Thank you it's really good to talk to you too. That's it for the podcast. Bye guys. Alright. Thank you.