Ideas Have Consequences - Bishop Dale Bronner | Faithly Stories

The original purpose of language back in Genesis was not for communication but for creation. God spoke, it was for creation. Language creates. What good is it to have an idea that you cannot communicate it anymore? It is impotent, it will lie dormant, like a seed that can't get in the ground. Language gives you the ability to mean words are a part of my tools. They are pink brushes. Welcome to Faithly Stories, the podcast that brings you inspiring tales from conversations with church leaders. As they navigate the peaks and valleys of their faith journeys through their ministry work and everyday life, brought to you by Faithly. Faithly, an online community committed to empowering church leaders, learn more at Faithly.co. Get ready to be uplifted and inspired on the Faithly Stories podcast. That's Adam Gerser here and welcome to Faithly Stories. I am sitting with the grain. Bishop Dale, Ronald Bishop, welcome to the podcast, my friend. I say my friend loosely because I have watched you from a distance throughout my 28 years of ministry, but I've gotten to know you more up close over the last 10 because of my pastor and your dear friend, pastor, A.R. Bernard. Talk to me about the early years a little bit. I know about the 30,000 member church and all the accolades and the rest. Well, we can get into that. I told Alicia, I said that there's the founder of Faithly. I said, you know, he's one of the guys because I'm preaching 35 weekends a year on the road. I listen to two men every week. You know, you speak into my life personally. How did this start? What were the early years like? Well, it just started slow and low. I started, you know, I grew up with five of the brothers. So I first started teaching a Bible study in my parents' own right in the living room until we started inviting some neighbors and some school mates and it wound up 75 people would be in our living room. Wow. As I taught every single week. Every Thursday night. That's not a little Bible study. Well, that's what that's what I must be a big living room. Well, I mean, you know, we had we had there were six boys. Okay. And my mom and dad. Okay. And a livian helper. Okay. So it was, you know, we had sizable accommodations. We had sizable accommodations. But that's why it started. It started at home. You know, I don't think that you should ever export something that's not homegrown. So it if I'm like, if it won't work in my home. Yes. Why would I take it to somebody else? Yes. So it was a it was a thing. My mom and dad, they were so incredibly supportive. And they wanted to be able to save their family first. And then invite others as a part of that process. So it just started at home. And it worked there so well. I know that I'm going to talk a whole lot less started the rest of this podcast. But when you said that I immediately go to second kings for the the the widows got a lack. And he says, what's in your house? Yes. Talk to talk to the leader because most of the audience are ministers, leaders, NGO leaders, nonprofit leaders in the Christian. Well, let's say what's in my house is insufficient for what God's called me to do. And you just said, don't export what you can't find at home. Speak to that leader. You know, it's it's the same thing that the whole idea, this this profit had to redirect this widow woman's attention, not to her lack, but to what she had God will never build your future based on what you lost. Yes. But always on what you have left. Yes. So what she said, I have nothing but the most important part always follows about. Okay. Always. Yes. And so that's she had a little part of all. That's that's all she needed. I mean, you can make it symbolic about unnaunting. It could be an unnaunted idea. That's all that you need. Ideas have consequences. Okay. You got every every major thing that starts a movement that shifts the world again with an idea. Yes. Yes. Basically it began with an idea. Yes. It's just an idea. Yes. Ideas have consequences, which is why we have to steward the ideas that come to our hearts to our minds because that's the seed of every great achievement. Wow. A dream is a God idea in picture form. Wow. He's just given us a motion picture and showing us really what already exists for us down through the vista of time. Yes. Faith allows us to be able to look through a divine telescope, tell a distant scope us. Look, it's a distant. Come on. Come on, Bishop. It's not an imagination. He's showing us right now. Right. Down the road what already exists. For example, up in the sky. We can look out of the window here and see up in the sky. Do you know the stars? They are existing right now. We just can't see it into the dark. Yes, sir. Can you imagine that there are certain things that God has hidden for us in the darkness? Isaiah 45 verse three talks about treasures of darkness. There are some things that you will never discover in your life that will revolutionize your life until you come into dark moments. Wow. Certain things that don't appear. The stars are out there right now. Yes. It is amazing. Scientists tell us that only about 6,000 stars are visible to the naked human eye. Okay. But there are about 10,000,000 stars in the heavens. Double the amount of grains of sand on the earth. Wow. 10,000,000. Just to know how big that number is. I used to work in accounting. I mean, a million, a thousand million is a billion. A thousand billion is a trillion. A thousand trillion is a quadrillion. A thousand quadrillion is a quintillion. A thousand quintillion is a sextillion. That's a one followed by 21 zero. Wow. That's how many stars there are. The human naked eye can only see a little over 6,000. Now, God told Abraham, get up and go look up. Yes. As soon as our social you'll see me. Yes. He had been hearing for 24 years. I'm going to give you a seed. He's going to be a great nation. And after all of that time, he never had a visual. One night, God says to him, step out of Abraham. Now, look up. Yes. He gave him a picture. When that, when he saw that picture, nine months later, his son was born. Wow. And so faith is not merely hearing. It sees because words create an image. And if you can't see it, you'll never be able to manifest it. It'll never materialize in your life. That's a part of it. It's the stuff that we see in the darkness. We go through a dark season. I'm telling you, the best music is written out of people's depression. Yes. I mean, I've seen the British girl Adele love her voice, a little smoky voice. I love her voice. But she's written some of her greatest music after she's broken up in a relationship. Right. Right. Oh, that's a treasure of darkness. Every time if you have a loss, a breakup, a death in the family, a financial loss, a loss of a relationship that broke up, that's treasure hidden in that dark. Yes. And within that, you know, we have to ask God for eyes to be able to see it. Yes. And if we could see in every mishap and every failure, there is the seed for our next success. I mean, if we eat a piece of fruit, as we are eating the meat of the fruit, oftentimes, we're discarding the seed, but the seed is the next harvest. Yes. In disguise. Yes. You know, so he does it. Most people are looking for harvest. When you pray and ask God for harvest, he answers with seed. Yes. And it's so it's just that it's a seed principle. That's what the part of all was. He was redirecting her from this fixed mindset of lack of poverty, depression, and giving her a growth mindset. Say, I want you to see something. I'm going to give you the substance of what you can grow in your life. You have said before that a seed can start something and speak a little, we might not move out of second Kings 4. There's some stuff there because we want to talk about the home. She invited her boys into to see the miracle, not just the crisis. I want to talk about the home in a second. I've gotten to meet your wife. We both married way up, Bishop. But tell me a little bit to the minister that doesn't understand the principle of the seed or even to some extent has been erroneously taught a bad theology around seed that almost they feel taken away. So they throw away the baby with the bath water. They throw away the counterfeit and the genuine somehow. One great thing about that, if you have a truth, there is generally going to be a counterfeit to it. That's true. To me, the counterfeit is proof positive that the genuine exists. Nobody's making a fake $25 bill. They're making a fake $20 bill because there's a real $20 bill. Absolutely. Yes, sir. Absolutely. In that same kind of idea, the whole kingdom of God is built on the seed principle. Yes. It all started back in the garden that happens with the seed. I mean, just think Jesus was the seed of the woman. Yes. He's a seed. And remember, Adam, the first Adam messed it up in a garden. Yes. The last Adam, Jesus Christ, fixed it in a garden. Yes. For the gasemini. Yes, sir. Where he was sweating like great drops of blood. Yes. But he's a seed that was planted. The wonderful thing about a seed is that it is prophetic just to even understand that if I see this seed, if it appears to be buried, it's coming back up. Yes. So it's not going to stay in its hidden form, but for so long. So if we can learn the waiting process with the seed, it's this seed time and harvest. That's when most people lose it is doing the time. Yes, sir. They get anxious. I mean, Abraham Ishmael is a result of having anxiety during the time. Yes. Absolutely. I am so glad that the Bible included his loose side. Yeah. His baby mama. Yeah. Because that happens to us, when people get anxious, you know, we've gotten a promise and it takes time for the answer to materialize. That's the issue of the seed, but I so deeply believe in the seed is almost like even sowing a seed. Here's another thing that I think about. You know how once a girl reaches that age of maturity to where she begins to menstruate, the moment that she receives a seed, the bleeding stops. A seed stops the cycle. A seed stops it. Just think about that every time a woman gets pregnant, a seed stops the cycle. The only way that a woman, the first indication that she is pregnant is that her cycle stops. Wow. Because a seed stops the cycle. But at the same time, it's stopping a cycle and starting a brand new cycle. Yes. And then it stops the cycle of bleeding out. Yes. Starts the cycle of reproduction and life. Wow. New life. A seed stops the cycle and it starts a cycle of multiplication. Once that seed hits that ovum, it goes from one sale to two to four to eight to 16 to 32 to 64 to 128 to 256 to five to 1224 to 2040. It starts just multiplying rapidly just by the power of a seed. But a seed stops a cycle. Anytime somebody is bleeding out, they need to look for a seed. Okay. They need to ask God, Lord, what is the seed of an idea? And oftentimes if you have something that's not enough to complete your vision, is seed to sow for the harvest that you need to reap. So if I don't have enough and then I've said, well, I can't give to something, that's your seed. Right. You need a harvest. So the seed and God's going to multiply. If it's not enough for your harvest, it's your seed. It's your seed. Yes, sir. It is your seed. Seed is a representation of time. It's a representation of money. It's a representation of children. Yes. It's a representation of ideas. Seed represents so much. And in a time that we go through a season of barrenness, we need to start thinking about seed. Yes. Because every time we sow a seed, we schedule a harvest. It can't help it. It cannot resist it. Yes. You know, we sow it. We water it. God is the one who does the increase. We don't even understand how he does it. Nope. I mean, you've told me about how sometimes you, the Lord might have used you to sow for something. That is the pay for a bill. And then on a huge blessing that came after that. Yes. It was the seed that God used. And suppose you had never, never, never sown the seed. Right? Or, you know, I hear often times people say stuff like, well, you know, I can't trust that ministry, right? You know, I don't know what to do. The minute it leaves your hands. Right. It's God's responsibility to bless the seed. Yes. Like, I'm not worried about that. I just need to release my seed. Yes. Yes. Yes. You know, and the strange thing about it in the economy of God is amazing. You can sow in one field, reaping another. Yes. That you had never sown it. Yes. So let's stay on that theme for a second, because you're not only, obviously, in incredibly gifted communicator, we'll talk about the areas you're navigating, but you're a family man. Yeah. I shared with you last night that one of the very first times I heard you speak, it was actually to a group of business leaders at a very large conference. And, you know, you talked about protecting your marriage and the implications of raising your children and then even just ramifications in finance. Talk to me a little bit about being a family man, a man of integrity, a man that's been married to one woman. Talk to the audience a little bit about that. Yeah. Well, you know, Psalm 37.23 says that the steps of a good man, the order of the Lord, God ordered my steps in such clarity that when I first met my wife that I prayed for, she, she tripped over a friend's foot and fell at my feet. Wow. Literally. Wow. You know, she fell. Wow. Not metaphorically. So when I'm meeting her first time in the flesh, she's lying at my feet. And, and I said, Goodie, a woman who knows her place. Oh, no, no, no. Oh, it's teaser with that, you know. It's a provoking motion. But we're in our 41st year of marriage now with five children and 18 grandchildren and two more on the way. So it's been a blessing. The family is, is the most base unit of all society. It is the most base unit of society. God's whole thing is that he wanted a family and the earth. Yes. I mean, he's, he didn't, I mean, he had trees. He had, you know, animals, but he didn't have something made in his image. And family is the greatest thing that resembles the relationship of mankind back to God. Yes. So he wanted a family. I grew up with a wonderful father that had the family, he prioritized his family. That was preeminent for me because his main motto was this that no amount of success can compensate for failure at home. Wow. He lived that. I remember, and my dad was nearly 50 years old when I was born. So I'm in the second grade and I see this gray haired man sitting out there at my school play that walked out of a million dollar deal at the office and sitting out there at his son's elementary school play in the second grade. Wow. And he said, I can make money at any time. He says, I got one shot at raising my family. Wow. That spoke volumes to me that he would not take money opportunities and then make me feel as though I was second place. He was never an absentee father. Wow. He was an intentional father. Yes. Who took his sons to swimming lessons, karate lessons, judo lessons, you know, I did tennis lessons, swimming lessons. I mean, he was just there involved. And in retrospect now realized he was hyperactive. My dad was highly energetic. I mean, he ate a healthy diet and he was just highly energetic. But the family, it was, and I grew up with this motto that he gave us. God first, family, second business, friends and all of that stuff. He was a third, but he always, he got first and he put the family in the second place. So it had a preeminent place in our life because from that, when you've got a peaceful environment in your home, the whole world is, you know, I mean, if you have, what does it do to gain the whole world? And in this, you lose your soul because if your family relationships are messed up, you lose your peace. Yes, sir. And if you don't have peace, you really don't have anything. And I told people, take care of your marriage. Yes. If you don't, I mean, divorce can take 50%. Yeah. Out of you, just like that. Yes, sir. So why would people be so careful about other strategic moves? Sure. And be flippant and irresponsible in managing the fidelity of their marriage. Yes. And I've been a researcher of that partner that is a deep intimate place of trust. We're most vulnerable there emotionally without deep secrets with our flaws, our humanity. We trust them with our weaknesses that they get to see the good and the bad and the ugly and love us in spite of that. Yes. And I say this that divorce is oftentimes the result of people becoming so weary that they lose the willingness to forgive each other. Wow. Because here's how I define love. And this is what works for me in my own family and marriage. Love is an unconditional commitment to an imperfect person. It is an unconditional commitment to an imperfect person. So I mean, why would I get upset if I see my wife do something and I realize she is imperfect as I am imperfect? Yes. So if we understand that, that we are imperfect beings and our love for each other is unconditional because this person is imperfect. God has given me a grace for her imperfection and her a grace for mine. Wow. And that's how you know you've got a wonderful mate. Yeah. That's when they got a grace for your humanity. Yes. And it's flaws. Yes. You know, because they are there. It's not to say that once you get saved, you're perfect. No, no. And which is the same reason that marriages don't just work just because two people are see. Yes. They have to have that compatibility element to where they calm the beast in you. You know, that's a beast in every person. And the right person knows how to deal with that, to speak to that, and sometimes even be non-reactive. My dad was a type A personality. Okay. And my mother had seen, because she had a feisty mother. So her mother would talk back. And my mother made a commitment in her heart that when I get married, I'm not going to talk back to my husband so that we can have peace in our home. Wow. And so she didn't. She didn't. She would let him rant. And when you're in business, you carry stress sometimes. My mother was mature enough to know that's the stress talking. You know, and she would actually even tell them sometimes she said, you need a vacation. And she would just start packing his bags. Okay. I didn't know. You need a vacation with her without me. No, no, she was. She was saying, but I think she was like, you're going to go and have a, you know, because all of the kids were at home. So she's like, like, I've got home. I'll take care of home. Right. But I need you to rest. You need a break. Yeah. So she recognized that and was wise enough. See, that was wisdom. My mother was really a wise woman. There's a reason why wisdom is a she in Proverbs. You know, I go back to that. My wife reminds me of that every once in a while. Oh my. You know, you navigate so many spaces. You're your, your Bishop Dale Bronner, a pastor to an incredibly large church outside of Atlanta. You've got a network of ministers that look to you for leadership. But you don't only navigate in that space. You're navigating in spaces around government and nonprofit world. You are seeing things done in the community and in social engagement. That are unique for somebody that would just say, well, he's just a Bishop. And I'm like, well, you have, you have no clue because if you really understood Bishop Dale Bronner, you don't understand the, the, he comes from a dad who's got a business. And then he's learned how to do business in the earth. And so how does your faith play out when you're not preaching on Sunday morning, but you're navigating all these worlds and all the influence. God's called you to Stuart. Well, I mean, that's a great question. I meant life is not unilateral. It's multidimensional. Yes. And in the same way that we are body-mind and spirit, we navigate different relationships in different spheres of influence. So, I mean, we're not only citizens of heaven, but we are citizens of a natural geographic place in the earth. For example, the mayor of my city has his mayoral meetings in my building. Wow. You know, that is unique. Yes. Yes. The mayor. Yes. Of Atlanta. I mean, the suburb, I'm in the city of of Mabelton, technically now. Okay. They redistrict us. Okay. You know, we have, we have suburb of Atlanta. And he holds his mayoral. Yes. In your building. Yes. How did he feel safe enough to do that? That'd be my first question. Absolutely. There's a level of trust that you had to garner and gain for him to say, I'm going to, I'm going to do something like that. Yes. It's a little bit of a risk on his part. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's exactly correct. And, you know, the chairman of our county commissioner is a member of our church. Okay. And she's at our facility all of the time. She loves it. Yeah. One of the past presidents of six flags of a Georgia, because it's right in the backyard of our facility. I've seen that six flags. I loved, it loves our facility. Yes. Because it's our biggest proponent. You know, so kind to us that when we would do big events at the church and needed more parking, he gave us free parking at six flags of a Georgia. Okay. You know, so. Okay. So it's life operates by relationships. Yes. Relationships are the currency of life. Yes. They are the currency of life. Yes. So they, I realized that I was, you know, one of the things I tell people, dress for the job that you want, not the one you have. So I was, I happen to be traveling. I was in the country of Panama one time. And, um, I don't know why I was suited up, but I was. And the group came into me. Well, you're the best dressed at the ship. I know. I was going to say it. I'm going to say it. I'm going to say it. I'm going to say it. I don't have a lot of time. You know, I, I'll just say, I know why you was suited up, because you're Mr. Dale Brown. But I suited up in Panama City, Panama. And, um, one of the groups in my delegation was having a meeting at the White House with the president of Panama. And they said, we need someone to go with us. They said, Bishop Rana, will you go? Wow. Just because the other delegates who were with the group were casual address. They said, we need somebody who's dressed for the White House. Yes. And so I was, so they said, you come. When I get there, and because I speak Spanish, um, the, the president asked me, this is very confidentially in his office, told me about one of his cabinet members that he was having an issue with, and asked me if I would pray for it. You know, and, and here I, I'm there. So I'm, I'm not in a mode now, where I'm a pastor of a church, but I'm, I'm a prophetic voice, because the head of nation. Yes. You know, yes. And, and, and it was, it seemed like happenstance. It, again, the steps of a good man or order by the Lord. And I tell people, God not only orders your steps, he also orders your stops. Oh. And can you imagine that sometimes the people that have gotten in danger, where God told them to stop and they kept going? Yes. When he says, this part of your journey is finished. Yes. If you don't get off from here, you know, yes. You can get in trouble by continuing doing what you've been doing. Mm-hmm. When he has shifted your assignment and your season. Yes. You know, so he orders your steps, he also orders your stops. Yes. You know, he opens the door that no man can shut, but he shuts the door. Yes. That no man can open. And when I, when I think about that in my faith journey, I always hear guys give credit to God for the open door. Yeah. And they blame all the closed doors on the devil. You know, and it's like, no, no. You might only be hearing God half the time, because you're not listening. Yes. Yes. That God might be speaking to the closed door. Yes. He might be speaking to the closed door, because he's got a new, better open door. Yes. He had to draw the book up. No, yes. So that Elijah would go to the wither with their faith. Absolutely. Absolutely. So if there's somebody right now who's sitting there and they're listening to this conversation, they heard about stars and dark nights. Yeah. You know, they're in a dark night. They're in the midst of a closer. And what would you say to them? Oh, wow. You know, that is the time to trust. Yes. Trust, trust faith really, because faith is seeing what God has already designed for you. You know, we know by faith. Yes. Trust is when God hits you on the blind side and you don't know what he's doing. Wow. You don't know why he's doing it. And you don't know how long it's going to take. Yes. In a season. That takes trust. Yes. It's like, can you imagine Job who was going through all of the trials that he was going through? And the Bible said he was a righteous man who is shoot evil and walked up right. And he's having all of this trouble. And this misfortune, death of all ten of his children. The loss of everything that represented his stock portfolio. Sure. All of his cattle and all of that. That was their measurement of wealth in them. And he loses all of that. And then breaks out with Boyle's honest. It loses his health. And has no identifiable sin. The Bible says that he was a righteous man that walked up right in a shoot evil. So what do you do when you're doing everything right? Yes. The wrong results are happening. Yes. Because we assume that if I do this and if I do that, this will happen. Yes. Everything will be blessed and hope and glory. Yes. And you might do all of the right things and be in a place where God is waiting to test your character. So that when I really bless you with double of what I'm going to do, which is what he did for him in the end, he gave in double the wealth that he had before. But he had to go through an endurance process of waiting. And that's where your soul gets tested through trusting God. It is the unrelenting faith in God when you cannot see his purpose and you don't know his timing and you don't even know the full clarity of his will. Am I going to live or die through this? Will I ever make it? Will I recover from this? Yes. And you don't even know it. Yes. And it's like Lord, while you're sleeping, as Job said, though you slay me yet, will I trust you? Because trust is a blind faith that I cannot see the outcome of this. I really don't know. I know what I'm hoping for. Yes. I don't know. Am I going to go to jail or not? Am I going to live or die? Yes. Will I go bankrupt? Sure. You know, will this seed ever come up? Or will this just bad soul? Right. Right. Because that's when your tribe is when, you know, if it's spring up, it happened quickly. Wonderful. You know, because God has sometimes missed some marvelous opportunities to show up early and surprised. Would that be nice? You're praying about something. And he shows up three years in advance and just surprises. But, you know, during that time, waiting is really a time where God is, He's trying to educate us on something that we need to know. Yes. He's trying to eliminate something out of us that we no longer need. Or He's trying to expose something that is deceptive in our world, close by, because time is a revealer, time is a concealer, and time is a healer. So, when we realize God's doing some things in the time when it looks like He's doing nothing, He's educating, He's revealing some things, He's concealing some things, and He's healing some things. So, it takes time to heal. It takes time to unveil and reveal. What happens if the promise comes too early? You rejoice. You know, it is a blessing if you've got the character of maturity and the mindset to handle it. Yes. You know, if you get blessed, you know, thank God, you know, if you got really blessed at 18 years old with a lot of money, you wouldn't have the mindset to know the right things that you do. Right. I mean, you'd blow it on foolish things. Yes, sir. On the folly of youth. Yes, sir. Yes, sir. So, if He's going to give it to you, you want to be able to have gone through enough to where you appreciate it. Yes. To realize, this doesn't just go on trees. This is a result of intensity, of sacrifice, you know, of praying, believing, strategic thinking, networking, collaborating, you know, all of that. It's a myriad of things. It's the process that matures us to be able to handle the blessings. So, one of God's greatest blessings to us, I believe, is unanswered prayers. And so, what we might think, and I tell people, don't let a divine delay be turned into a devilish disappointment. Oh. Because He may be delaying us on purpose to mature us so that we know how to work it well. And once you get older and with the wisdom and the maturity, you can make more happen faster. Because wisdom can overwhelm a problem far better than the strength of youth. Wow. You know, I shared with you that as somebody who's preaching in pulpits all over 35 weekends, I've got to have guys that are speaking into me because I'm not sitting there on Sunday morning normally, listening until my pastor, Pastor Arbonard, is on a weekly rotation. And you're the other one, Bishop. Talk about your command of language for a second. How many languages do you speak besides tongues? I don't know what the denominational affiliation of our audience is. So we'll leave tongues out of it. How many languages could you at least order in? We could go to a meal. How many languages could you at least place the order and the waiter awaits us and say, they absolutely understand what you say. Oh, wow. There are times you're preaching, and I'm like, what was that? I got a Google. What was that word? He just said. You know, there are so many guys who are content with not expanding their vocabulary because to be honest, 90% of the people they're preaching to, it probably doesn't matter. But there is a segment of society that having the mastery over the language and multiple languages, that are alluded to being in Panama and being able to speak fluent Spanish and I've heard you break out in the Spanish on random occasions, Bishop, and not just a local boy, but the rest of it. Why does mastering the language as a communicator matter? You know, because everything is a language. If I go out and hunt moose, I use a moose call. If I hunt duck, I use a duck call. Every person has a sound. Every organization has a sound. Yes. And it's calling somebody and the broader that your sound is, the better that it can be translated into other languages. It's a sound that is familiar to them. You resonate with the audience. When I stood up in front of 30,000 people in Kiev, Ukraine, and spoke and greeted them both in Ukrainian and Russian, they gave me a standing ovation. Okay. You know so. But it just connected with their hearts open for me. Language is, you know, the original purpose of language back in Genesis was not for communication, but for creation. God spoke. It was for creation. Language creates. What good is it to have an idea that you cannot communicate it to anyone? It is impotent. It will lie dormant, like a seed that can't get in the ground. Wow. Language gives you the ability. So to me, words are a part of my tools. They are paintbrushes. The Psalm says that my tongue is the pin of a ready writer. Yes. We take our tongues and we paint a picture with words. Yes. Words create images. Yes. Literally like painting a word. We are painting an image and some in fine art. You can't just use the brush that you paint outside of a house. You need some really fine brushes to be able to do that. That's the difference between words. For example, if I'm out on the beach and in this so windy day and I've got an umbrella and you know a strong wind can blow it back the wrong way, that's a word that I would use for that is the word recalcitrant. My umbrella has become recalcitrant. And that one word, express it. You realize like half the audience have stopped to jingle. Wait. And you know, and there's so much meaning in it. You know, I don't try to support people with a bunch of malifla with a Grand Deliquate Sasque Pedalion Elocution. Sasque Pedalion. Sasque means six-ed feet. It's something that has a six-syllable Sasque Pedalion. So a Sasque Pedalion speaker is a person that would use big words with at least six syllables. Yeah, that was so. I was speaking at a university and a president, I used a word that the president had never heard before. And he asked me, he said, Dr. Bronner, did you make that up? I said, I can both spell it and define it. You know, the problem with this is, too, like, I can't lose my New York accent. So not only are you more articulate and you're like a logo file for verbiage and words, but your accent makes it all sound great. Bishop, we're sitting here and the audience is seeing the backdrop behind this. They wouldn't think we're in New York City. Well, right. But we are in New York City. Yes, yes. We're on Long Island, on Long Beach Long Island. And we just had a 30-hour retreat with 70 plus leaders in the room. Senior leaders, mostly senior pastors, but there's some senior nonprofit NGO leaders in the room. And this is not your first one. You have made a commitment and let me just say publicly, thank you, your commitment and investment in me personally has made me a better leader as a result of it. But your commitment to investing in other leaders, you don't just pop in for your session and I tell guys all the time, when you got the best lead off hitter in the world, you just let them go first. And you've led off these 30 for 30s and you sit there and you do what you do and you're sharing different thoughts with a lot of you. But then you're moving to the prophetic and you're encouraging guys and they're blowing. But guys will come and tell me, hey, the best session was I had lunch with Dr. Bronner. I had dinner or I had an ice cream sundae with Bishop Bronner. Your commitment to stay in the room to not just come in for your moment and then leave. Sure. It makes this retreat experience just incredibly special and different and intimate. When you look at leadership today, why are you so focused in investing in that next group of leaders? Why does that matter so much? Well, because we are all running a huge relay race. Life is not a just start to finish. We don't ever finish. We pass off, which is why God had to be known as the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. So think of it like a relay race. The Apostle Paul mentioned that I fought a good fight. I finished my course. Yes. That was his particular segment of the relay race. Not the race. Right. My course. Exactly. Exactly. And then there's always somebody coming behind you who has to run with you, behind you, empty handed. With no promise of receiving anything, they're running in faith. But then they have to overtake you because the baton is never passed backward only forward. And this is why John the Baptist said in John chapter 3 and verse 30, he must increase. I must decrease. But I cannot decrease until he increases. If I do that, that's irresponsibility. That's dumping instead of delegating. Wow. You know. Wow. So they need to overtake me because every baton is passed forward. Forward. So they got to move before you. You've written a book on this. I've written a book on mentoring. Mentoring of passing the baton. Passing the baton. I never have heard 28 years of ministry full time for me and grew up with a pastor's kid. So I've been around the things of God my whole life. I've never heard that the baton gets passed. Yes, forward. Absolutely. There are probably two groups of leaders listening right now. The guy that's running empty handed and has no promise for except I heard a word and I'm believing God. And the guy that might be passed their prime. Yeah. And they're slowing down instead of handing it off with momentum. Yeah. They're waiting too long. Yeah, yeah. If you had to speak to both those leaders, the older and the young, what would you say to each of them? You know, I would say to the younger one to serve with patience and diligence. Okay. Faithfulness because that's what people want to pour into. You disqualify yourself through instability and unfaithfulness. It's irresponsible to hand it off to them. They must increase. They're waiting for them to increase. I tell teenagers, if you really want your parents to give you more freedom, show more responsibility without them having to tell you. Yes. Clean your room. Clean the dishes. Take out the trash. If they see you being responsible, now they know you can handle responsibility. So the more responsible you are, the greater freedom that they'll give you. You know, because I was a dependable, responsible young person, I had incredible freedom from my parents. Sure. My mother would hide money and she'd always tell me where it was. Okay. Okay. You know, they know who they could trust with and who they couldn't. Sure. And other juniors were stealing from their moms. Yes, sir. So, and I would say this in the same way, if a woman carries a baby too long, she not only in risk runs the risk of her dying, but also killing the baby that she carries. Wow. It is the same. A leader does more damage to stay too long in an organization than to lead to early. Wow. You can... We got incubators for people who deliver prematurely. But we don't have a real condition that can help people once they've gone too far over. Both the baby and the mother's lives both will be lost. If you carry it too long because you've stunned it that growth and you've poisoned to yourself by carrying something beyond the time. Wow. And I see more older leaders who are prone to do that. We're in a season in America particularly, where we're watching a lot of transition. Yes. Yes. A lot of succession. We're seeing some of the greatest churches and pulpits in our country going through succession. Yes. And it feels messy. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Is that just me or are you seeing the same thing? And it's that clear. Yeah. I mean, I've got this vision in my head of the baton. It's the first time I'm hearing it being passed forward as opposed to backwards. Right. Why is it so messy then? It has to be done with intentionality. Yes. It's like a state planning. Yes. You just have a mess if you gather stuff and you have not had a plan as to how your estate will be done after your death. That planning, you know, a budget is this thing of telling money where to go. Yes. A schedule tells time where to go. Yes. And the succession planning, it's saying that this is the way that this is going to be after I step out of this and don't wait until you become decrepit. Yes. You've then decreased it and now you hand them over something that is feeble and an intensive care instead of something that is vibrant. Yes. You know, and most people, the only reason they don't turn it loose is because they don't have a vision where they can go, what they can do, and someone with whom they can enjoy themselves. Wow. They must have those elements. You've got to have someplace to go, something to do, and someone with whom you can enjoy. Then you can turn it to loose. It's not just enough to retire and leave the pulpit. Oh, absolutely. No, absolutely not. If you have nowhere to go, you're going to constantly be looking. Absolutely. Absolutely. Wow. And this is the thing that I tell people, God specializes in saving your best wine for last. Yes. I mean, if you think about it, all of the games are won in the fourth quarter. Yes, sir. You have to go to the fourth quarter. Yes, sir. You have to go to football game. You have this one in the fourth quarter, the basketball game. It's won in the fourth quarter. Yes. So these are leaders that are in their fourth quarter and still trying to dominate the ball. Of course. Yes. Yes. You know, we have to stand back and coach other young people to be able to play an incredible game. That gives greater value to us and it makes the game better. I think it's a great thing to do. I think it's a great thing to do. Bishop, this has been an incredible conversation. I hope it's not the last time I get to sit with you on a podcast and talk and you've already made such an incredible investment in the alumni and leaders of 30 for 30 and leading leaders collective. And I thank you for that. In addition to helping me from afar by watching your sermons and allowing me to reprieach them if you credit or not, Bishop. Couldn't, I couldn't record a lot of the words but the ideas, the ideas translated. And one day I'm going to get to my bucket list item which I've already told you is going on vacation which is somewhere in the world. Because you are the best vacationer. I know. So that's going to absolutely happen. Bishop, Dale brought a thank you so much for joining us on the Faithless Stories podcast. My name's Pastor Adam Dersot. And I hope you have enjoyed this time. Continue to follow us on Faithly and on social media. God bless you. Thank you for tuning in to the Faithless Stories podcast. We pray this episode gave you the encouragement you needed to continue on your journey. The Faithless Stories podcast is brought to you by Faithly. An online community committed to empowering church leaders, pastors, staff, and volunteers. 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