If Jesus is Real - Darren Allarde

There's two things in there. I was for sure struggling with if God is real like I don't know if I was an atheist per se like I don't That's not mine. That wasn't what I was prescribed to probably Gnostic was probably the closest thing I think if you had me though check check box a survey like I check mark Christian just you know I want to be saved so check mark Christian but nonetheless I was there the hang up definitely were were intellectual questions You know the media doesn't do those who follow Jesus any favors and so I had a lot of intellectual right my name is There and I'm out in San Jose California. I'm one of the vendors for salt and light. It's a company that's trying to help I was loneliness by having people play games in their small groups in this my faithfully story Welcome to Faithly Stories the podcast that brings you inspiring tales from conversations with church leaders as they navigate the peaks and valleys of their faith journeys through their ministry work and every day life Join us as we delve into their challenges moments of encouragement and answered prayers The Faithly Stories podcast is brought to you by Faithly an online community committed to empowering church leaders pastors staff and volunteers Learn more at Faithly.co get ready to be uplifted and inspired as we unveil the heart of faith through stories from the front lines of ministry on the Faithly Stories podcast Did you tell me about how your faith journey started? Yeah, you know, okay, so I'll share this. I came to faith when I was 31 so I'm 40 years old now And you know more or less that's about nine years of walking with Jesus. It's it's not it's long But it's also short all at the same time my mom did teach me about Jesus growing up. I was Like seven years old when you know, she really started talk talk to me about God and my Jesus And we had gone to church I don't know pretty regularly for about six months or so But that's about as far as it went my mom's out of family was pretty religious from what I remember Wasn't sure if I was always vibing with the way they thought about it It was a lot of here's the things you don't do because if you don't do if you do those things It's gonna send you to turn to nations It seemed very fun to follow quite honestly and then uh I'll just quickly end on this that when I when I was 31. So I'm now married. I have my first kid He's about almost a year old at this point and I remember I was actually going on my wife's Dad's church. It was a Korean church. I'm not Korean by the way. I'm Filipino It's a Korean church sitting there. I don't understand anything that's going on And I was trying to work up the courage to tell her like I'm not sure if I believe in this I think I'm just gonna kind of pass on it all and I remember very clearly In the processing that weeks leading up to it feeling this tug in my heart I didn't even have the language for it at the time But I do now where God was clearly knocking at my on the door of my heart and asking me to explore him And a lot of the thoughts that were hitting my mind at that time were Am I equipped to love my wife more at 40 50 60 What happens if longevity tech kids kicks in I'm like 150 years old if I'm gonna love my wife more then or is this peak Happiness in my marriage, you know got one kid careers doing well get a second on the way About the buy house is that is it saw that I've got to look forward to or is there more to life than what I'm seeing wait So What were you doing the first 31 years you just like it wasn't just in the back of your mind or Yeah, you know, I nobody can ever not Think about life after death. I think you know even for people that are listening that might not be a faith If you just close your eyes and imagine every single person you know Maybe you're really a NBA carry your watch NBA play. I'll say every single one of those basketball players Every single member of your family every single person at your work I know it sounds really morbid, but everyone is dying So you've got to have an answer to this problem and You know to kind of answer your question more directly. What was I doing? I mean, I would contemplate death every now and then I really think much about it because it's not It's not immediate in the whole lot of ways if you're a healthy individual doing well Outside of a free at freak accident. You're not really thinking about it and more or less. You're I'm avoiding I'm avoiding religion. I'm avoiding Christianity I'm avoiding anything that has to do with the idea of surrendering to something that isn't me Because I'm doing fine like life's going great like why do I got a surrender to something? So that's that was more or less my life flailing around before Jesus So what was it about that moment that like kind of convinced you and were you struggling with like god being real or It was just not part of your life and like you didn't even think about it Yeah, you know, I for sure was okay, so there's two things in there I was for sure struggling with if god is real like I don't know if I was an atheist per se like I don't That's not my that wasn't what I was prescribing to polyagnostic was probably the closest thing I think if you had me though check check box of survey like I check mark Christian just you know I want to be saved so I'll check mark Christian But nonetheless, I was I was there the hang up definitely were were intellectual questions You know the media doesn't do those who follow Jesus any favors And so I had a lot of intellectual wrestling is very simple things like is there earth 10,000 years old? Is that a thing? Okay, as far as I'm aware it's like at least eight billion give or take a couple billion years It's gonna be that that's at least what you know sciences Is is compatible with science and I really put a lot of value in that and there's one of my most favorite verses is Romans 12 Two and it's do not conform to the patterns of this world but we transform by the renewing of your mind It goes on and on but the renewing of your mind is the most important part that really stands out for me because The transformation begins in the renewing of your mind And there are some really great answers though a lot of these questions and what I had also realized is that all these questions I had They're like Top 20 most Christian Top 20 most asked questions in all of faith. They're not unique by any standards of imagination And a lot of times you think those questions are really unique to you, but they're not they're they're asked by billions of people throughout all history So Help that answers in some ways So do you feel like as you are attending that church it entered those questions like what was the renewal for you? Yeah, so okay. Yeah, I now know the second part of the question is like so what happened? I think it goes back to what I was saying is the the trigger was reflecting if I Was built for the long run like is there more to life than what I'm doing now Do I just make more money? Do I just crime the career ladder? Do I just make my family? What is it? But oh, what's the point and I remember So this was that this was the impression I felt again. This was in language. I was using at the time But this is the language I use now the impression. I knew God was putting on my heart is come Explore me with the tenacity you do towards your career and I was saying some flavor of that CS Lewis quote without knowing that CS fluid outside it which is effectively If Jesus who he says he is then he's of the utmost importance If he's not who he says he is then he's of no importance the only thing he can't be is somewhere in the middle And that kind of binary dichotomy of trying to understand Jesus helped me out so much And I just went hard. In fact, I actually didn't explore Christianity first I spent a lot of time reading Eastern religions because I thought there was probably there was like a bit more attractive to feel like Okay, I can get into meditation. It's like the flavor of the day You know, it's like I can get I can add my kicking into I can get I can do breath work I can do meditation. I can go on like a quiet yogurt tree I could do those things, but I don't really have to submit to an actual God, you know No, thank you. Like I'm not sure if I'm going to believe in that and there was some what would you say Usefulness in those things and then I actually jumped exploring atheism and read you know Christians and Richard Dawkins and you know, you can call it like a biopsy that I'm structuring my own mind I don't really care but you read those books and you're like where's the hope man? I'm just like no, I might as well just make up my own rules even despite the fact that what they present is You know semi logical and then you know, I decided to explore Christianity and See if this was a big one mere Christianity was a huge book Tim Keller's work was so pivotal for me Reason for God was just huge huge huge and then you're just reading these books. You're oh, oh by the way I should caveat this with so I live in San Jose and I was commuting to San Francisco at the time That commute is about an hour thirty minutes I would leave early in the morning, but I'd I'd commute back home just sitting with nothing else to do So you're listening to sports radio because the giants in the words are hot music Audio books and all that stuff gets hold at some points out one at the point of expiration. I was just slamming down like apologetics and John Lennox comes to mind a Frank Turg is a bit abrasive, but I'd like them nonetheless All these people were just guys. I was just listening to constantly and at the end of it You hear the presentations of that I think about my expressions of before I look at listen all apologetics of other religions And you're like wow Jesus is real. I can't believe this is real and and then you start to contend like do I actually did I actually want this to be real like This is now becoming the most Intellectually honest thing I'm believing if I don't Admit to it then I'm actually being intellectually dishonest myself So I remember kind of throwing this prayer up or like all right. I think you're real. I'm pretty sure you're real Can you just show up in my life and other whatever way you're supposed to and it he just did like in small ways Just get it the way I got connected in a church the way that connections were being brought to explore him at a deeper intellectual level The way the way I was experiencing the Holy Spirit without it without me even knowing that that was happening There's just so many things That happened in that season and I remember uh, there's all I'm on this my wife and I we decided to leave her Dad's cream church and we ended up joining a church called echo church and the first Sunday there I was ready. I was like let's just get baptized so it's the first thing I did I be lined to the lobby I was like all right. It's my first week here. I'm ready to get baptized So let's kind of let's kind of like out my face story with that or at least to start. That's awesome man When you met your wife was she a Christian She was she she was a Christian. Yeah, that's correct. So How did that work out because at the time you weren't a Christian Yeah, yeah, I don't think it was like I was parading myself as a non-Christian So I you know, did I believe in God? I think mostly sort of Looks like we're in there. I think I can kind of tween the line between you know to the point It's like I'm not I'm not anti God. Let's let's put it that way And I think for my wife, you know, that's her own face story and I've itself is that she grew up in the church She's a pastor's kid She has a fate. She's had a faith in Jesus and hasn't left it But you know, I don't have a problem saying it here because if you ever doctor she'd be the first to tell you that You know, it was a very carnal face who was something that was very Just this is given to you. There's what you do and that's that. I was born into it and there's no real There wasn't real depth in her relationship with Jesus until afterwards So did it affect your relationship with her or it seems like you guys kind of grew together We definitely grew together. Did it affect our relationship? No, it didn't because you know, she it just wasn't a big It was a part of her life, but it was something that she was more so born into And There's a big difference between being born in a religion that you just believe just because your parents said Versus man This is my personal relationship with Jesus Christ. He's my best friend and he is my king And I love him and I know that he loves me like I don't know if you Some people can say those words, but then How deep is that revelation of a statement like that? I think it is another type of question asked How did you mean you met at a club? Yeah, right the lights were dim just like that We met at a club. Yeah, that's where we met. No, I mean like she's a stranger. You're your friends like what was that man? She's your strangers. She's frozen like K. You're cute. Can I get you never? That was it? And we saw I can share with this is funny because in our product salt and like we do these things where we leave like riffs for Questions that people have and one of the in their marriage group one of the questions is where would you meet your What was your first date with your spouse? So our first date was at yoga land And it was all right. It was chill and I just moved into a new apartment In the peninsula in Dama and I had to buy stuff like you know shower curtain thingy and you know towels or whatever And I had asked her hey, do you want to go to target with me? Just on a whim like the day was over for me. I don't know if I'd ever call back. I don't know if she liked me whatever So I invited a target and she it was almost like I got to see a glimpse Of what this relationship could be because she was so thoughtful and mindful of me and very kind and I'm a sucker for very kind people so I was like wow that she's like really really cool And I ended up calling her again and address this history Three kids later 11 years of marriage That's like it's going great. Yeah, that's a great story So you said you had one child at 31. Yeah, oh boy girl. Boy. We have three boys. Yeah. Oh wow three boys Happy Koreans there. Yeah, not to handle So when you have your son your first son and then you kind of got converted Did your perspective of fatherhood change? Yeah, big time huge. I mean it's I didn't I feel like I've had pretty powerful revelation To the depths of what legacy means Like eternal impact here on earth and I feel like even now and all that revelation I'm just at the surface of it all and very quickly that was one of the first things that started to change in my heart was just recognizing that impact I will have In in my family in the legacy of this family and ultimately Whatever small parts of the world that we touch that now that I'm following Jesus. I have a North Star of a compass That Is just it's the greatest thing ever. It's the most transformative thing ever and Yeah, I'm having a tough time putting into words Just how much it changed fatherhood for me it like I knew I mean clearly anyone who's a daddy You don't even have to be a Christian, but if you're a dad, it's important. You know how much fatherhood matters There's dads who are separated from the kids that understand more than anybody how powerful fatherhood is But the moment you touch Jesus and you include him in that. Oh boy. Does it? Does an amplify like so wait? It's almost overwhelming actually We're like holy cow. This is this is the call to how I'm supposed to serve my wife In my kids how the heck am I supposed to do this? It only sees them possible and then you go in the journey and like oh man The yoga Jesus is light and easy the burden is light and easy come on like this feels good And you see the changes and you see like a large part of my story is um You know, I had both of my parents growing up They're still alive today Though there was a lot of like marital trauma, spousal abuse a lot of abuse that I went through physically That's a huge part of my story and I always wondered how I would overcome this even in my own with my own kids But then you see the Lord kind of work not just in you as a dad, but you as a son to your earthly parents and then You know reconciliation happens redemption happens. Thank you. I didn't even want it to happen You know you're so filled with anger and bitterness towards things like that and now care I'm doing fine And then the Lord starts to convict you and you're like really you want me to go repair this relationship I'm doing I'm doing just great man and then he does and then when that starts to repair You have this new birth of vision for how you are as a dad and you're just like what is going on and Yeah, yeah, I can go on and on about that topic for a while It's really that's one like we could pull apart forever if you'd like There are definitely things that are rearranging in my understanding of other because when I see like Tough like broken men a lot of that has to do with their broken relationship with the father, you know And then when you hear that God is a father it has like negative connotations and so Yeah, I'm glad that God worked that off for you. Yeah Yeah, it's crazy how how much our earthy relationship with our parents impacts our view of the The God be creator within the Trinity. It was very easy for me to understand I should say very easy, but the two that I understood more more quickly at a way that really started to transform my life were The sovereignty and human and godliness of Jesus Christ And then in addition Was the just mysteries in the supernatural power of his spirit of the Holy Spirit But God the father was always hard to get for me always It still is actually I mean like God and this is the fun part. This is the What I'll share there's like I feel like one message that isn't really broadcasted much for those that are Spiritually curious and searching is that dude like following Jesus is super fun like it's so fun It's the most joyful fun thing Purposeful meaningful throwing the big adjectives like all that's it's just awesome It's hard. It's hard as heck, but like oh man, it's so fun and I think in the journeys had me on Really over the last five years with reconciling not just reconciling my relationship with my dad, but redeeming it There's you know, I've been it's it's it's renewed. It's given fresh fire fresh wind to my view of the father And it's different now like I learned I'm learning now how to like receive I didn't It's always been hard to do that like how do I receive what does that what does that mean? And then now it's like oh you touch it you tasted you're like y'all just sitting this Not to do anything. I don't want to perform. I don't want to get stuff done This isn't laziness. It's just me wanting to be in the presence of the father And I think about that with my own kids like sometimes They just want to see with me on the couch and do nothing I'm like man, that's so cool like they just sit there. They cuddle They turn on the TV and that's it. That's all we're doing nothing. It feels so nice So I had imagined that god the father desires that from us like he just wants us in our childlike faith to enter his presence and just be with him Yeah, presence and stillness is undervalued because we're so geared to do things and produce in this world But like you need that stillness first so that like you have a purpose and all you're doing so yeah, I love that Um, so then how did you start getting involved with salt and white? Yeah, so before salt and white I was actually on staff at a local church called echo here in San Jose, California and we were in the covid season You know god here's one error that I know god really Gives me vision for whether I like it or not and that is just to think very innovatively and it almost isn't even my It's not like my intellectual brain power doing it It's almost like circumstance or people he introduces me to that gives me that vision So as an example one of my good friends Karen she sat with me in the office in December of 20 and I remember I asked her So what's this like covid thing corona virus thing in China is they're real and she's like oh, yeah, it's real I'm like, what do you mean it's real and she's like yeah, it's they're like shutting it down And I'm like what shutting down she's like everything and I'm like press here for you Like what do you mean everything she's like yeah the entire country shutting down I'm like everything's close She's like yeah, and you know if you kind of understand world politics at any level China loves doing its thing And they're making great money. It's on up enough the last thing they want to do is shut down anything So like when I heard that I'm like oh my gosh, this is a big deal Is it like how like transmutable is it like what's gonna happen to is it we're gonna get it and I almost like Panic about covid in December Like God gave me an opportunity to freak out at like everyone that was freaking out in February and March I had that done that in December. So come February I was like ready locked and loaded. I was like and again It's not my lot of like I was talking about it from like hey, what do you think's gonna happen? He's like dude like all the health care workers are gonna have to go work They're not gonna have anyone take care of their kids They're gonna be working like 80 hours a week. They're gonna get slammed I'm like dude we gotta go serve the herfc health care workers They're not gonna have like what about like protection or like equipment like are they're gonna have it So all these thoughts Again, it was like this transaction of things that had occurred and I just happened to catch the wave like a month or two before Everyone else was on it and this this is almost like a pattern in my life for a lot of things. So Kind of going back to your question original question on salt and light. Yeah, I don't I take no credit for it I'm not that smart. It just happens. Wait, wait, wait a second. Yeah. What are you doing for the church? Oh, so I came on board 20 I don't let's say 17 or 18. I can't remember exactly as At 2018 innovation a director Technology guys like the technology guy at echo church loved it was great role and then about two years into that So now 20 they had asked me if I wanted to be the pastor of the camp at one of the campuses So it's a innovation technology person like You know, it's like how do you think about the use of technology with ministry with the local church with the kingdom um How do we leverage technology? How do we leverage data? How do we think about it like give us the appropriate lens To to be leaders in the in the in in a renewal of technology as opposed to just being the followers and adopters of technology So that example Yeah, so um alright here's I'll give two so prior to prior to echo. I was a product manager on Games as a product manager you spend a lot of times a lot of time Using the scientific method to prove and disprove features you build on a tech product and you You prove and disprove it by analyzing data you look at the quant data you call customers in here the Quality data around it and you realize okay here's why it's working here's why it's not now I'm I'm kind of giving the shortened version of that, but there's depth to those types of analyses It's why in a lot of ways I feel like we should be all educated on how to read like research abstracts Like what we were doing with that. I mean not that I understand a little time But I know it enough that I could I can make myself little little sharpened dangerous in some areas It's bringing that kind of framework. It's like okay Hey, you want to make a change your connection card And you just want to like blanket this change. Well, you got four thousand people going to your church every weekend You have no idea of the change you're going to make is actually any good So why don't you a bee tested? What do you mean a bee tested? It's like Put half of the old cards in and put half of the new cards in and see and let's run this experiment for Six weeks and just see what happens and see who submits more cards or whatever It's like no, no, no, we already ordered all the cards like well, don't do that like we don't need to do that Like don't you want like what if you put a change that actually makes the existing connection card worse like What happens then like so even that type of thinking they're not thinking that way and that's okay Like you know, they're not trained to do that like I really sympathize for pastoral and ministry staff like How do I get trained to that it's like you hang out with a bunch of MBAs that teach you how to do it It's like okay, so they're not doing that. I happen to just be in the environment that was doing it. So okay That was like that was one thing that I was trying to push towards the tree and we and we did they got much better And then the second was literally just building our own technology so Hey, how about we build our own group app? How about we build our own like church app and not just use a white labeled app And here's why because I want to track the actual metrics and how people are using I want to know how our congregation our members we did not members to it You know, I want to use I know how our people are using it And we ultimately built a technology through through the innovation department that we were running A lot of churches have this it was like a like a two-way platform where it's like hey, I need help You want to help me we connect on this platform and you know, we we serve one another. So we we were doing flavors of that for sure Does that help does that answer? Yeah, yeah, yeah, no, that's really good and so they were trying to transition need to a pastoral Yes, so the the campus that's closest to me one of the the prior campus pastors transitioned out They were looking for somebody else so they asked me to do it and just like when they asked me to join full-time ministry I was like no, I'm good Dude like it would be honest like it doesn't sound particularly fun to work for a church However, now that I've been part of it now that I've actually worked for a church man I feel like I really recommend this everybody listen is my one plea on this I don't know on this podcast work for your local church For like six months a year two years consider it boot camp of understanding how the Ecclesia thrives about the importance of the the local expression It's it's changed me a lot. It's it's made me it's empowered me To guilt-free pursue this missional venture Without feeling out how to I still have to do all these things with my local church like there's a lot of Austin this out of local church and I'm a huge huge huge support of it And that when you get embedded in it living in it you realize the you realize it's power It's it's one of the greatest accelerants of the kingdom actually my personal So it's on an innovation lab. It's not a tech department It's not a pair church thing. It is a space to serve the local expression and the local Body of believers together and that is very very very important. So what were you doing? As a pastor. Well, the funny part is I became pastor during covid So like I I think I've I joined as a pastor in January of 2020 as I was freaking out about covid And then we all locked down in like February or March. I don't remember exactly. It's February mid February and So what did I do? I mean effectively nothing we built the Ecclesia compassion site spent a lot of time doing care calls Actually, this all bridge back into why why we start salt and light so the genesis of it I do remember doing care calls to people like I can't say how you doing as a family We're like two two weeks in the lockdown or one weekend Oh, yeah, it's great. I'm working from home blah blah. How's this? How's that? Oh, you know, it's great And then I asked this question I go how are you and Jesus and they go oh, you know Ever since the church closed And I'm like church closed. I'm like, whoa, what are you talking about? Like you know, our like we're closed down and that did something to my soul where I'm like Wait, what does church mean like maybe I don't what's the theology on church? Like what is the reward where this come from what the heck's Ecclesia like and I just dove down the rabbit hole I was like I need to understand this stuff like what the heck are people talking about because in my mind out of my ignorance of Kind of not I would at that point what five years walking with Jesus I don't really know where people are talking about as far as I'm aware church never closes Like it just doesn't close So what are you talking about that it's closed all that to say salt and light came out of a spot where I Where we where we have began to recognize that we be we as a society where it can more distant And the ability to dive deep into things is becoming lost And what this translates to practically from like a diagnosis perspective is loneliness And you can see it Vivek Murthy or usurgeon general has effectively declared loneliness as a new health But as a new mental health crisis Syn epidemic It's a big big deal So what does the local church do really well when it's beaming? It's small groups. It is community. It is conquering loneliness. So there's no there's no organization on the planet better situated in position To deal with the pandemic of loneliness than the local church problem is is that small groups is oftentimes oftentimes confined to just a little church So what salt and light is trying to do is we're trying to bring small groups to the masses Then we want to give opportunity for those small groups to play and have fun together So in our prior beta test we had realized we can give devotionals We can get put them on this cool journey feels good looks good plays nice But if it's not fun people aren't coming back. That's why we go back to that's why I go back to my youtube shorts And I want to watch one and I'm a hundred deep afterwards and it's because it's fun I'm getting that dope. I mean it now we don't want to do things as obtrusive that But it has to be fun You have to be having a good time with the people that you're with there needs to be intentional Intentionally and purpose around it and hence why games is now a big part of what we're doing We want small groups to be able to play games with one another intentional games So is salt and light specifically just for this specific app or is it like a venture or a company that produces multiple Venture kind we're a for-profit business. We're a public benefit corp So there is the heart there's a heart that that is behind what we're doing That is greater than profit We have a line that we barred from one of our advisors is that if you're a for-profit business You should be in the for you should be for the profit of human flourishing And we have a that that that is like Slowly but surely becoming an ethos and part of our DNA and culture that we want Not only to serve and honor our investors potential investors well Allow us to be a company that is a awesome on their portfolio makes a bunch of money that they can lift their heads high But more importantly that they're just proud about the work that's happening and that they can share testimony So their LPs and to their friends and family about hey We invested in that company and look at what they're doing So yeah, is this your only app or are you guys working on other stuff? Yeah, this is our only app and we don't I don't think for now I can imagine where we have a library of apps before now. This is the only app. There's no need for like What's the app called salt and light? Oh the app itself is called salt and light. That's correct And then the company is salt and light labs. Yeah, the company is the salt and light company. Okay So how did you come up with the name besides the obvious Bible verse it was because of the obvious It's kind of the Bible verse but the funny part is is that well, you know for stuff people like us Danny it's pretty like Apparent that it's a Bible verse but for even kind of new Christians or A lot of people that are in a lot more of what would you say you know um secular environments? It's not that common in fact like one of the reasons why I like it sounds like a Place that it sounds like a nice place. I could also buy furniture like Like a lot of people don't know, you know Yeah, I think that's ultimately what we anchored in that that Bible verse of being salt in the world and light in the world And a large part of it is, you know, in that journey over the last few years. I've I personally My identity in Christ is only strengthened and I think this is probably one of the biggest Areas of growth for them to the totality of the body of Christ is to recognize that your primary identity Is that the test you drive or your work or your money? It's the fact that you are a co-air with Christ in the heavenly realms So don't ignore that grab that mantle do something about it like a lot of times We say the words, but we don't allow the Lord to breathe revelation into it and Yeah, I know. I know. I know much how the God. I know I'm fearfully wonderfully made. It's like you know But like knowledge is like dangerous sometimes. It's like what we're after is like wisdom and revelation and I feel like so It was a little bit about the name like group leaders Have access to untapped networks that the local church can never touch You know friends in your life that will never go to church But your your friend you can invite them to a man's group You might tell him hey, it's within the Christian context, but man I think you're gonna love it and he might actually go to war to them and guess what the moment he interacts with your group That's it man. He's in the ecosystem of church. He's touched the body of Christ And congratulations. He's in it and and what does that do? It calls everyone who's a small group leader To grab a hold of that mantle of being a co-air with Christ in the heavenly realms. You're a minister You don't have to wait for your local church pastor to pass to them go pass your friends yourself, man Like so that's that's a large part of what there's a large part of the vision of salt and light that I'm hoping is touched by that thought That those who follow Jesus can use it and use it to just love on their friends and invite them in an environment digitally That they might not ever go physically where can people don't want the app The website salt and light dot community That's probably the best place to get it you can get it on ios and android So yeah, start a group invite your friends. I have multiple groups going groups from church I'm my family my family is using my mom so cute. She uses it like a voicemail machine for me. It's really really funny So yeah, I highly recommend people giving a shot and seeing what it's like yeah, we'll put it in the show notes or in the description So how does the app work? It's like you Is it like a because when you say game? I'm thinking like an RPG game. I don't know the screen share on this thing. Oh, yeah Let's just let's just do it. Yeah, let's do a demo Give me a second. Let me let me load this thing up So because when they talk tomorrow like I do lots of fact that you're gamifying small groups Just so that like you make the interactions more fun But in my mind, it's like what's the value prop right of Growing but also like are there team challenges is one one imagine you play game where So you let imagine you're hosting a group and it's a men's group whatever and imagine you're kind of in a module or Course or book that's really unpacking like the depths of trauma or sin Well It's kind of hard to ask a question of hey, what's one sin you struggle with over text like it's not easy to do that There's probably a list of like warm up questions as well than kind of lead someone to that A lot of times out of ignorance I don't even really know how to answer that question sometimes But if I'm led to the led to that spot then I could probably give them much more like Respectable answer for people So imagine you're playing a game where you know, you pick you nominate people to sit in a seat And you you have a deck of cards of questions that you could throw their way and the questions can range from you know Share childhood memory from the summer um, you know, what's your favorite cuisine those are kind of like higher surface level questions But then some deeper ones could be you know, what's one thing you really admire about your parents and why Oh now we're on to something you might hear response from a friend that's like it's really hard for me to understand that question Because I just didn't have my family grown up. You might not have ever known that you might not have I know that I was dealing with it and it may lead to discussion now that you can unpack and tease apart with him and minister And then again, there are deeper questions, you know, we actually in one of the games this is not so bad But in one of the games we were talking about you what's one sin struggle you really have and we were still testing the game So we didn't like balance it well But we only gave 15 seconds for people to respond because no one wants to hear like fought a five-minute soapbox So we gave 15 seconds of my friend disclos this like enormous sin and like his victory over it and like 15 seconds And it felt so rushed, but it was actually and because it was so rushed it was hilarious And I'm like all right on the big one They're right clearly levels of these questions and on the really big questions. We have to give like 60 seconds on back So yeah, you're right Okay, like if you want to just play a fun game look Well, there's just add me as a friend on steam. We'll go play some Dota or something like it's fine Like we can go on PlayStation 5 and like we can go play Fortnite with my kids But there are games that you can make as a game. So I am a game designer as a game designer You can make games that are more intentional and more heartfelt and if there's a very popular Purpose driven game called we're not really strangers comes in a red box and it more or less asks questions like this So Yeah, that's kind of more or less what we're doing. So I'll just do go good. Did you have a question? No, no, I was just gonna say you can share the screen and then show me like a demo. Yeah, yeah, yeah, so this is a screen Um, this is like let me actually go to a group where like our earlier adopters are sitting in so you can kind of tell already like We were really intentional with making sure that the UI didn't feel like a very generic UI We wanted you need to feel like this is a game you need to feel like this is your digital third space Because you're already throwing your group into a group text or what's up chat or slack channel And it's more transactional or like informational if you want to play You've got to go to a place that's designed for it So if you kind of swipe over the left there's this microphone here. We're taking a big bet on audio communication There's an emotional richness that happens in audio that you can't get in text So as an example here's one question. Hey, this is this this this group by the way is for our earlier adopters are typically leading groups So it's a K take 20 seconds to share about the group your hosting so you can like listen So what Lucila has to say you can emote you could play it. It's a lot of fun Even something like this we're changing rapidly. This is like the nature of software service for things change rapidly in the look lot better You can chat so there's these are all the chats that I'm in um And then you can host events so like you can schedule an event with your group So that people know which ones coming up and in this case there's no events coming up uh And then story chain is the game that we're making that's the dino in the middle unfortunately I can't demo it. It's not ready yet But if you do download that and tap on it You'll get a nice video that a mar has recorded and he shares and talks a little bit about what story chain's gonna be So story chain is gonna be ready uh What is going to be ready this Thursday or Friday so Yeah, that's more or less that Audio communication with your group And playing intentional games with them. That's really important intentional part is important um And I'd also say like the last thing around all this is I don't mind I want to leverage games to do this. This is what games are awesome at It's why do a lingo is the most popular and profitable and in some ways most effective language learning tool kit out there because it's a game There's no mistaking you download do a lingo you want to go learn spanish or korean or whatever you're playing a game Not just doing homework. It feels and plays like a game and games bridge through and practice. They're more engaging There's so many wins that games are at so I'll just say this as well as like a faith founder I'm like please to be building A positive game a game that's meant for good So yeah, no, I totally agree with you that gamification is actually What we're created for because there's a lot of joy, but not only that um it taps into our child likeness You know, I mean like sports is just one big expensive game right um and we get excited about it So oh thanks for sharing that makes me like want to download it right now and like check it out. Yeah. Yeah Dude no problem happy to talk about it more Next you're giving me an opportunity to share about it a little bit here So I'm curious as like a startup founder because like I'm You know what we're doing is startup to like one How is your user acquisition? And then two what has been the user feedback? Yeah, so I think What you guys are doing right? I feel like when I last spoke to leash about it She there is this kind of like hustle around just getting people to sign up and go That's exactly what we're doing right now and I think there is one kind of additional lever that we're able to pull on here That feels really nice, which is get the group leader They invite the group members and that feels very very good So that's more or less the core like go to market strategy for now and that market size for that is like But I hate I don't like using the language when it comes to that but this is just a Technical term guys don't freak out That it is a relatively like large size. We're like estimating that there to be about 40 million people that are in small Nursing United States and then what are people saying? I think everyone understands that so let me start with a little bit of the the kind of neutrals and negatives I think everyone understands that it's early and it feels like a little clunky and buggy sometimes but I think everyone also immediate feet immediately feels how fun and Different that app is and not different for being different, but different in a good way There's apps there's software applications that come around and they they just Change the game in this weird way and you don't really expect it that slack reminds me of one of those apps Again, I happen to just use slack day one of public beta just randomly Um, because a friend told me about it. I remember the moment I installed it and using them like this feels right This is different and it's like was it really that different? It's just chat like this what this would all the pundits were saying It's just chat. It's like it's not just chat guys. It's like I receive but like Better and for work and and I had a difficult time explaining what slack is so there's some pattern recognition for me where I watch people explain it and I and I'm desiring that outcome when they sit there and explain They're like okay. Yeah, it's like chat it's a group and it's like a little bit like audio But I don't know. It's just like fun and like when I hear that when I hear that expression when I hear people say that I'm like okay. We are onto something. This is it. This is all the all the great products often times That is how people will explain it It's kind of like this. It's kind of like that. I don't really not explain it. It just is cool And that's hey if we have to live in that if we're successful and live in that world That's how people define us so be it and if it takes five years later for people to really have that one Chris one line blurb of who we are and everyone gets it fine like I don't care but That's that's yeah, that's more or less how people are explaining it now Yeah, at the end of the day all starts are the same It's just the joy of a user experience and then they just share that gospel with other people and then get the mass market Like if you really think about Facebook, it was like a page right over your profile But then the fact that like you can look at other people and like see what they're doing and then that like you know steamroll So yeah, it's also like faith league like people ask me like oh what is faithly and we started off saying It's like a LinkedIn for Christians, but it's really not just a LinkedIn And so there's not this word that you can describe but Like the goal is like connection so that people can like Connect with you or connect to anyone else or like you said When you're doing the technology thing you're talking to other churches like where do you go right so It's hard to explain. It's just more of this like Intuitively we understand human beings and how God created us To be relational right, but that disconnect is devastating and isolating and so we're trying to like break down that wall and like Build bridges So even though like I don't even have the words to it, but yeah So what is like your big like hope for this app? Yeah, there's so much here Let me start small and then kind of scale out So the for now goal is the build an app that group leaders and their members absolutely love using That there's a companion that this really becomes a companion app for them a true digital third space That they know it's like okay We love using salt and light if it goes away will be pretty upset like this this is really helping us Gel get to know another go deeper in our relationships. It's a lot of fun So there's like a tangible outcome there clearly. I think from there the next big stage is discoverability from so Again a large part of the genesis of why we started this was around loneliness if you're already in a group You're already in a group you're probably not as lonely as a guy who's not in a group or a girl that's not in a group So how do we then serve then top the rest of the population that isn't in a group And would like to be in one And how do we allow for some of the wisdom nuggets that that materialize out of this to be broadcasted out? So I think I've read it a lot as a platform where you can go there You can type in right now How do I overcome depression and you're going to see lists and lists and lists of people in different separate It's talking about how they're depressed talking about her lonely and you're going to see people comment back With some advice that may be good or maybe bad either way. It's not audio-based text and it's not trusted and I'd hope that at some point in time That let's say you leave a fantastic message around reconciliation with your dad and your parents and what it did for you and It was just awesome minister to me and the rest of the group and you were willing to publicize that as kind of a cookie crumb into your group into an online group or as a or just as wisdom that people can interact and listen to Like wow that would that's amazing. That's like something really special in my opinion So that that is that's I don't know if that's the end goal, but it's definitely one of the major goals that I know will take us some time to get there and it does start again with having the appropriate Group the appropriate people in the app and it's why I get excited thinking about salt and light and what we're doing because Again, there's there is really no one better equipped in the local then the local church to deal with loneliness small groups are awesome They're super hospitable They're really engaging if you have a good group leader like you they just crush for you They'd like really go to bat for you And I love the rest of the world experience that type of love and that type of hospitality and embrace That they may not be expecting from the church. All right. Thanks. Um, I want to ask you our last two questions What are you hoping for? I faithfully what am I hoping for out of faithfully you mentioned faithly a bit earlier in what you guys are doing And I think I love I don't know. There's a spot now. It's been a while since I've longed the app so I'll react to it But I'd almost love to be able to start just sharing the journey of salt and light organically not as a spam hey download this all now, but more like here's what's going on and if you want to know more like Message me and we can talk and then people will naturally google things or search things up and find it And if we had a platform to be able to share kind of what we were doing That'd be awesome that wherever people could see it and would be interested and see you should make a group That's what we encourage people to do make a group and then people can follow your journey in more of an enclosed thing Because if you do it on the feed it kind of like gets buried Something to think about um, and then how can we uh, how can we how can we be praying for you and your family? Yeah, I think two things many things actually, but let's let me just kind of riff on some of the things that come in my mind Any entrepreneurial endeavor is like very lonely. It doesn't have to be something. It doesn't have to be a tech play There are people who are doing fitness gyms and they're just barely getting by or they're starting their own like food truck or rush on business And it's just really really hard It's a very lonely road and that is definitely an area where I'd love to continue to receive prayer for and the second area is I'm really praying that people will use that And really give it a shot to see what they think and leave feedback because We're changing it every week like our development cycle is like pretty aggressive right now and If you want an opportunity to really craft an app that we want to use Now's the time because we're like, we're like, please tell us what's happening Like it's so cool. We'll fix something in a marble send a video to the person say hey, we fix it I just want to show you what looks like and it's like so fun for them to do that So yeah, prayer around people coming into that to use it Yeah, I don't think most people realize that like the worst criticism is still the best feedback because You're trying to make something that people want to use right and so at the end of the day All founders are trying to make the users happy like you have no idea. I'm like craving feedback, but people I don't know I think they just try to be nice, but yeah, don't be nice be completely blunt and honest. I can take it I mean, I think the large part is like it feels like it enters a vortex of nothing So that's what we're trying to dispel is like it's not a vortex of nothing Like we have I don't know at the time of this call about 270 people will sign up and we've sent almost everyone in a welcome video And we're trying to like put our face out there and like let them know like we're real people that actually want to serve you and yeah So but I'm with you. I it's why I don't leave feedback. It's because you just have this kind of ads because I'm black hole So hopefully we can just begin to dispel that yeah, I think Because of faithly I've been trying to leave more feedback for all like the absence of where I use And then I know when they don't reply. Okay, I don't look for a competitor because I want to be cared for Anyway Man, thanks for coming on. This was fun. Yeah, no, thank you. Thanks for the opportunity. I'm I've been seeking more opportunity to just share my story and talk about self-delight when given the opportunity even just for a food proof one So thank you. I really do appreciate it. All right. It's have a bye guys guys, but thank you for tuning in to the faithly stories podcast We pray this episode gave you the encouragement you needed to continue on your journey The faithly stories podcast is brought to you by faithly an online community committed to empowering church leaders pastors staff and volunteers the faithly digital platform offers innovative and practical tools and resources to enhance connection foster collaboration and promote growth within the church and ministry space Remember to subscribe rate and review our podcast to help reach more listeners like you Stay tuned for more uplifting tales from the front lines of ministry on the faithly podcast stay bold Stay faithful and never underestimate the power of your own story