Investing in People - Tom Herbert

It was a guy who literally twice a month would pick me up before school, bring me back to his house, and I would sit at their breakfast table while they were getting their kids ready for breakfast for school, and he would just be like, hey Tom, what's going on in your life? You know, how can I pray for you? Just made such a significant impact, you know, because he took the time to invest in me. This is Tom Herbert, and I am the National Field Director for Harvest Network, also Lead Pastor at Freedom Community Church in Shrewsbury, Pennsylvania, and this is my faithfully story. Welcome to Faithfully Stories, the podcast that brings you inspiring tales from conversations with church leaders as they navigate the peaks and valleys of their faith journeys through their ministry work and everyday life. Join us as we delve into their challenges, moments of encouragement, and answered prayers. The Faithfully Stories podcast is brought to you by Faithfully, an online community committed to empowering church leaders, pastors, staff, and volunteers. Learn more at Faithfully.co. Get ready to be uplifted and inspired as we unveil the heart of faith through stories from the front lines of ministry on the Faithfully Stories podcast. Could you share with me how your faith journey started? Yeah, I was raised Catholic and always had a reverence and a love for God. Ultra Boy Catholic Elementary School, and then my parents went through a very public divorce, and it just shook our entire family, and when my mom went back to work after the divorce, she met a lady who told her about a personal relationship with Jesus, and my mom gave her life to Jesus, and then one by one, each of us kids followed suit. So when I was in seventh grade, I gave my life to the Lord at a chapel service at our Christian school that I was attending, and my life has never been the same since. So I actually have a question about your Catholic experience, because you mentioned that your mom and you accepted Christ in a Protestant context, but do you feel like that wasn't something you did in your Catholic church and your Catholic upbringing? Yeah, that's a good question. For me, I had a reverence of God, a fear of God. I would say a love for God as well. I just never heard the message of a personal relationship with God in that context. I knew that God loved me. I just didn't know that I could love him back in that way, because that makes sense. Yeah, it totally makes sense. Could you actually elaborate on that? It was seventh grade, and going through the trauma of a divorce and a broken family and the healing that God did in our family, I came to know him more as someone that I could have a relationship with. I came to realize that the sacrifice of the cross was not some theological concept, but it was a personal invitation to me. I was tremendously blessed to be able to go to a Christian school, go to Catholic elementary school, and then go to a Christian school as well. Just in hearing the messages over and over again in chapel about the invitation that it's not just about a religion, it's about a relationship. We can have with the God of the universe with a living God that just softened my heart and I came to realize that this is what I was created for to walk a relationship with God. Even as a seventh grader, I really came to know him as my father, my spiritual father, my Heavenly Father, and it's not that my dad was vacant, but there was brokenness there. I came to know God as my Heavenly Father, and he's not broken, he's perfect, and he's holy, and he was what I needed. What did that look like in seventh grade and moving forward for a seventh grader? I was very blessed to be in a very healthy local church, and the beauty of that was that I was surrounded by families, especially for me because my dad was absent. Men who were truly serving the Lord, all of us kids had a spiritual father or a mentor that took us alongside of them would take us out to breakfast, would meet with us, and just to cycle us in the ways of the Lord and what it meant to be a follower of Jesus, and all the ups and downs of high school and emotions and relationships and dreams about your future and all of these things, and so not only do we have an amazing mom who was following the Lord, not only were we seeing the healing and the restoration what God was doing in our lives, but we also had these God, the examples who would mentor us and spend time with us and just let us process, and it was such a healthy, life-giving environment. And honestly, one of the reasons why I wanted to go into ministry, because I saw the power of a local church, walking in community, following Jesus, and helping others to do the same. And I just said, man, I want to be a part of that. Is there anyone specific you can remember in your youth years where they're kind of a real model for you, especially as a look-a-pastor? Yeah, well, that specifically as a pastor, although there were some pastors that made a big impact on my life, but there was a guy who literally twice a month would pick me up before school, bring me back to his house, and I would sit at their breakfast table while they were getting their kids ready for school. And he would just be like, hey, Tom, what's going on in your life? How can I pray for you? Just made such a significant impact because he took the time to invest in me. When it came to pastoral ministry, there were a couple of pastors that just showed us really out of love well, out of lead well. And so they were definitely role models when it came to pastoral ministry, but when it came to just being a disciple, a follower of Jesus. I went to this Christian high school and the teachers were all invested in the students. They weren't just teaching math or history or whatever it was. They were really invested in the students. And I was a part of a choir in high school and we would travel and we would go on tour. And those tours were just so monumental because you had the choir teacher, but then you also had all these adults who were shaperones, right? And we'd jump onto a big tour bus and we would go to Washington DC or go to South Carolina or go to wherever we went. I don't even know, we went all over the place. And just those moments, those moments, living life with these dedicated followers of Jesus who loved God and loved people and nobody's perfect, but they they were certainly a role model. That's for sure. Yeah, something recently like this week I've been being convicted of is that like because I grew up in New York and in New York, like everything's bigger and grander, you know. So like there's this like urge to like be this big thing for God, but he like literally, like spiritually, mentally, like smack me, like God is great. I just need to be good wherever I am because I don't think we realize, like you said, because I've done so many podcasts now, the same story resonates over and over. It's like at a certain time in a certain place, the moment was when I was young, I saw this person just love me and care for me. And now they've become pastors and leaders and entrepreneurs. And it's just like, I don't think we realize the impact we can have just by being good to the people around us because we don't see the ripple effects that God's going to do years from now. You know, I just literally this morning, we listened to one of the sessions from exponential. It was the session, I don't know if you remember it if you were in the room, but it was the pastor from the Ukraine. And he was telling the story, of course, of the war and the devastation of the war and how the things that he was pursuing before the war quite honestly just don't matter me. And how we have to change the scorecard. It's not about being big, it's not about being, you know, you know, significant in the world's eyes, it's about the people right in front of us. It's about investing. And that's what happened with me. People invested in me. Men and women, you know, moms and dads, they invested in me, invested in my siblings. And that's what made all the difference. It wasn't the grandiose thing that we think is so important. So how did you get into ministry? Did you go to seminary after undergrad? Yeah, I went to Bible College. I have a non-traditional route into into ministry. My wife and I met when we were a 20 years old. And I was actually a student at the time at Cleveland State University. I'm originally from Cleveland, Ohio. And I was a student at Cleveland State University. And the Lord really spoke to me about taking a season away from pursuing my degree, which I was pursuing secondary ed, history, and social studies, you know, teaching, take a season away, go to Bible College, and then go back and finish my degree. And so I did. And I stepped away from Cleveland State. I attended a small Bible college in Cleveland, Ohio. Unfortunately, it doesn't exist anymore. And that's where I met my wife. I knew of her before that, but we spent more quality time together there. And so we ended up getting married, you know, after two years of dating. And it wasn't that we weren't serving the Lord. We just never went into ministry. I went back to Cleveland State, got my degree. We started a family. I worked in the business world for a little over 15 years. And then, wait, one second. On the age of 40, we transitioned into vocational ministry. Could you elaborate what did you do for 15 years in business? Yeah. I was in retail management with JC Penny and with Macy's. It was called Kaufman's back in the day, which is a part of a regional store, you know, in Pittsburgh and Cleveland, but then Macy's bought everybody up. So I just tell people, JC Penny and Macy's. But, yeah, I loved it. I absolutely loved it. I loved working in retail management. I tell people, you know, I manage pretty much every part of the store except for women's lingerie. And that's a good thing. And, you know, I loved working in retail management. It wasn't that I was trying to get out of it. It wasn't like the Lord just got a hold of Judy and I and said, hey, do you remember that pastoral prophetic call on your life? And we were serving the Lord. We, you know, we were leading small groups in our church. We involved in leadership in our church. We were involved in regional stuff in the regional church of Cleveland. Very active, you know, but the Lord said, you've got to, you've got to call on your life. Don't don't forget about that. So that was, that was about, let's see, we got married in 1990 and around the year 2001 is when the Lord started sort of knocking on the door and saying, hey, don't, don't forget 2002, maybe. And, and so we went to our pastor at the time who was one of these guys, like what I talked about earlier, who was very significant role model for us of pastoral ministry. And we said, listen, we've been out of Bible college for 10 years. We're hearing the Lord say this. We've got four kids, you know, we just had our fourth little one and how in the world are we going to do this. And so we, he said, well, why don't I just mentor you in real life ministry? You know, you got the theological stuff. You've, you've learned all that. But let me mentor you in real life ministry. So he's another one. He took the time. We would meet with him on a regular basis, but quarterly he would block out an entire afternoon. And we would just sit with him for three and four hours at a time. And he would just talk about, this is what I'm dealing with. These are the, you know, the relational conflicts I'm dealing with. This is the church politics stuff I'm dealing with. These are the things that I have in my heart for the church. And I'm trying to figure out how to lead the church in that direction. All of these things that are that are so real life ministry. And so he did that for us for several years. So then in 2007, we heard about a church that was in our network that was coming open. The pastor was retiring. And we had had several other churches that had kind of come along the path and just didn't feel a piece about it. But we felt like the Lord say to go ahead and submit our resume. And so we did. It was a church in Jacksonville, Illinois, which now remember we were living 10 miles outside of downtown Cleveland. And this was in the corn and bean country of Illinois. It was almost like going to a foreign country, but not quite. I mean, it was like total cultural. But the Lord opened the door and we went through the interview process. And even though we've never been a lead pastor before, it's just like in the book of Acts, it seemed good to us and to the Holy Spirit. And we accepted the call when they called us to come. We picked up our family and moved to the middle of the corn and beans of Illinois, a little college town, just 30 miles west of state capital Springfield. And that was our first experience leading a local church and a vocational ministry. So let's the culture shock because there were more rural or rural. But like, I don't know how to call it, but like, what are the values like similar to you? But yeah, small towns, the after-with-just-a-small-town dynamics, you know, everybody knows everybody unless you're new to town like us, you know. Different just different thought process is not that one's better than the other. It's just different ways of thinking. Every region of the country has different cultural stuff. But you know, same Holy Spirit, same gospel, works across every kind of cultural boundary there is. And so, but it was, I remember we woke up, we had gone out there for our second interview, we were staying in this hotel. We looked out the window and all we could see was corn and beans. And we're like, where are we? What happened, you know? And this is something I talked about when we were there. So it's not like it's, you know, but it was just, when we lived, I mean, our house was literally, you could go to the end of the street and you could see the skyline of downtown Cleveland. You know, so we were literally like at the end of our street skyline of downtown Cleveland to the end of our street corn and beans, you know, for as long as you can see. So it was just a lot of change, but it was good. It was good. Well, it was one thing that was really different in the way they thought that you were like, Oh, that's interesting. We're a different perspective. Yeah. I'm trying to think here. I think we homeschooled all of our kids. And in Ohio, the laws are really strict for homeschooling. And in Illinois, if you don't enroll your kids in the school district, they don't care. I mean, so we were like, OK, this is different, you know, and so, you know, with that, broad, just a different thought process, a thinking process for homeschooling. You know, Ohio, because there were all these laws and because it was a little bit more accepted homeschooling was in Illinois, it was a little more foreign. It wasn't, you know, so it was just, we had to figure out how to navigate it as parents, but also trying to explain it to people why we're at homeschooling. And so that was, you know, that was part of it. When it came to, you know, the church, when it came to, you know, the work of ministry, I would say, you know, just having a bigger view of like, reaching the lost, it's not that they didn't have a heart for the lost, but when you're in a small town in the Midwest, it's pretty well saturated with the gospel. It's not like New York City, right, but you have all these different worldviews and all these Midwest. It's pretty well saturated with the gospel, you know, Cleveland, very multi-ethnic community, same not as big, much as New York City, I'm sure, but still very, you know, multifaceted when it came to faith. In the Midwest, small town, you know, pretty much everyone's a Christian. I just don't note that we weren't confident everyone had a relationship with Jesus. And that was one of hurdles we had to overcome. And by God's grace, you know, we were able to do that, you know, by just teaching on where it meant to be a follower of Jesus. And so we actually started the Alpha Course there for the first time. Many of your listeners will be familiar with the Alpha Course. And when we first did the Alpha Course, we said, listen, this could be for somebody who's never heard the gospel before, or you've been in church your whole life, you don't know why. I would say the majority of people that went through the Alpha Course for the first time were people who had been in church their whole life and they just didn't know why. And it made such a dramatic difference in their life to see and hear what it meant to be a follower of Jesus. Would there any transferable skills from your business background to what you're doing as a pastor? 100%. 100%. I, my wife has said, you know, every, every pastor should work in the business world before they step into ministry. Yeah. And it's not that you're taking, I think I think people misunderstand the church is in the business. No, it's not, but it is a people. The church is all about people and relationships and business is all about people and relationships. As well as, you know, I was in management. So a lot of what it comes to leading a church, you are your managing teams, your managing their volunteer team. So obviously it's different. You you're not paying them an hourly wage. You can't put it to the demands you put on, you know, but when it comes to leadership, when it comes to managing teams, when it comes to setting goals, you're not setting goals, you know, financially, necessarily, but you're setting goals for the ministry or the church, whatever we want to do. But at the end of the day, you know, it's the kindness of God that leads us to repentance. And man, I tell our church all the time, we have to be the kindest people on the planet. It's just like in customer service, right? Like in order for the customers to keep coming back, they want to know that they are valued. And so the church needs to be the kindest people on the planet. So that whole customer service mentality, we've really brought into ministry as well and to just teach on kindness and treating people with value and respect. And that's what opens their heart up to the gospel. Yeah, it's actually very recently that I've realized as a Christian or even people knowing that I'm a Christian, I'm unintentionally carrying the name of Jesus and how I act and treat others matters a lot. And if you even asked me like five years ago, I'd be like, you're crazy. You're just like this. I'm over spiritual like hippie Christian, but I'm like, oh man, it matters a lot because I can actually build walls for people from coming to the gospel because of me. And so if I'm going to say I'm a Christian, I need to take this more seriously. And it wasn't until like I spent a lot of a long time, it like convicted me a lot to be who I am today, which is more of this kind gentler soul that I don't think anyone would have, you know, believed. So I'm totally with you. How did you find your current church? Well, it's sort of a God story. My brother as a pastor as well, and he has passed it in York, Pennsylvania for 20 some years. So we would come on vacation, you know, here to York and visit with them and made friends with his friends, you know, and that type of thing. And we came one year, it was probably, it was during that season, I was telling you about when we were knowing the Lord was transitioning us, but Paul was mentoring us as well. So it's probably, I think it was maybe 2005, 2004 right in that range. And so my brother asked us to come and do a worship conference at his church that he was meeting here in York. And so we came planned a vacation around it, but we came and we did a Saturday, Friday night and a Saturday, and we had our own worship ministry at the time. So it was one of our passions, still is. And so one of the people that was at that worship conference was a pastor in Southern York County, which York counties, I believe it's the biggest county in the state of not, it's one of the biggest. It's about a half a million people, but it's over about a 30 mile, 40 mile ranges, very spread out. So Southern York County is right at the bottom of the state of Pennsylvania, where Maryland and Pennsylvania come together. And so this pastor and his wife came to the worship conference, 2004, 2005, I think. And at the end of the worship conference on Saturday, they said, we just got a new building. And we were wondering if you would come and just do a worship night in our new building. So we were planning to be there anyways, because we had planned this vacation around it, you know. So we said sure. So we came down the next day with Sunday night. They just moved into this new building that they had bought from a denomination and and we just we just did a worship night and I never talked him again. We were pastoring in Illinois and we felt like the Lord had told us to get our church ready because he was going to transition us out and that there was a new assignment coming for us. So we were praying into this and we were you know beginning to raise up people, you know, where the church would need it if we left. And I get this phone call out of the blue from this pastor I met in 2004, 2005. It's now 2016. And he says, hey, do you remember me? This is Peter. And I'm like, yeah. And he goes, I'm getting ready to retire and I was wondering if you would be interested in moving here to Pennsylvania to be closer to your brother and taking over this church. I was like, wow, didn't see that coming. So we began the process of talking with them and after several months of you know talking with their leadership team and we just felt like, yep, this is the Lord's next assignment for us. So our family of course had grown. Our son had just gotten married in Illinois. So the hardest part of the decision was that he felt like he was supposed to stay in the Midwest. Him and his wife moved down to St. Louis, which is about an hour and a half south of where we were. And they helped a friend of our plant at church in St. Louis and then we took our other three kids and moved to Pennsylvania. So usually when your kids get older, they leave you. We left our son. That was one of the hardest, hardest acts of faith we've ever done honestly. But when you know the Lord is speaking, you have a choice to be obedient or to do your own thing. So we were obedient. We heard the Lord say yes and we moved here to PA in 2017. What did your son end up doing as he stayed? Yeah, he stayed. They moved from Jacksonville down to St. Louis. They helped our friend plant a church and they were the worship leaders and you know, with any church planting teams, the worship leaders plus everything else, right? But they had a great experience there and now he is the, what is his time? He's the operations director for the Gateway House of Prayer in St. Louis, which many people might be familiar with the House of Prayer Network. House of Prayer movement, which is worship and prayer, raising up worship and prayer in the cities of the world and so he is the operations guide for the House of Prayer in St. Louis. Is that my hop or is it different? It's familiar. Well, I hop is in Kansas City, but this is actually, it's like I hop, but they're not like networked. They're individual houses of prayer, but it's the same concept. They're running about, they're running close to 40 hours a week of worship and prayer staffed by the church of St. Louis coming together to staff this House of Prayer. My son is the operations guide for the building and keeping everything running the schedule, everything flowing. So they're thriving there. So what is harvest network? Yeah, harvest network is a network of churches and ministries. It was started in the, toward the end of the charismatic renewal back in the 80s and for people who are familiar with church history, there was a move of the Holy Spirit that swept across the United States called the charismatic renewal. What happened was, there's a lot of, a lot of denominational churches when the Holy Spirit came, the denominations weren't really on board theologically with it. And so these churches and pastors were forced with the decision to stay in the denomination or leave. While harvest network was started back, I believe, I don't know what you're exactly, maybe 87 or 88. And it was started by several Lutheran pastors who could no longer stay within the Lutheran denomination of the time. I think it was called the ALC. I think it was called the American Lutheran Church or something like that. And so they left to form this new network of churches and ministries. Now, we're coming up on, you know, 40 years, you know, later, it's not Lutheran at all. I mean, now it's basically a group of kingdom-minded pastors and leaders, local churches, ministries, missionaries who are on a journey together, you know, to grow the kingdom and to plant churches and to start ministries that are making a difference in the world. So how did you get involved? I'm sorry. How did you get involved? Yeah, that's a good question. The founding church was our church in Cleveland. So our church in Cleveland, I told you I was raised Catholic. My mom was led to the Lord by a Bible believing spirit-filled believer who went to a Lutheran church. And so my mom enrolled us in the Christian school of this Lutheran church and we started attending there. And we didn't obviously. We were just coming into faith, but we didn't know all of this, all the politics was going on, theologically, and we never heard of the charismatic renewal or anything. But when I was, so I was in seventh grade when we first started attending and I gave my life to the Lord when I was in eleventh grade is when they left to Lutheran denomination and held the first ever conference that became what's now harvest network. So yeah, my brother, my brother jokes, he says, yeah, I ran sound for the very first harvest network assembly. So, you know, we just kind of were in it, you know, by default. Obviously many years later 2006 was when I was ordained through harvest network, but it's just always been a part of who I am as a young man all the way through today. So your association with harvest is just that you are part of the network. I'm a part of the network. I also serve now as an elder on the board of elders. And then a couple of years ago, I was asked to step into a new role that we created called the National Field Director. And my responsibility is to help the network network. Because how many of you know you can have a name that's not really right? And so we we felt like especially now, especially as the church enters into us in age where we need to be in community, we need to be networked, you know, that my role is to help the network network. And coming out of COVID, the whole what we're doing right now, the Zoom world opened up to everyone. So we've created several Zoom cohorts that people can network together. We have seven regions now of the country, where we have regional gatherings, regional partnerships happening across the country. And then we have our ongoing annual gathering as well, where we gather once a year, we invite the whole network to come together once a year for encouragement, support, equipping, training, all that. So you guys officially non-denominational? We are. We are officially non-denominational. We're just Kingdom. We're just a Kingdom group of people, leaders that love the Lord. We want to expand the Kingdom. We want to fulfill the Great Commission, help, you know, the Body of Christ fulfill the Great Commission. We want to build a community of leaders who are not trying to do it alone. You know, we know the statistics right now of Christian leaders. It's horrible of the burnout rate that's happening. So building a network where people are supported and encouraged and equipped, but non-denominational. Yeah. How do people join your network if they want to get involved? Well, Harvest Network.live is our website. That's the best way to go. Look around on the network. There's a tablet on the top. It says join the network. And so they can join. We are a 501C3, but we are a licensing organization. So we offer credentialing of ordination and general license, special license. And so if they're looking for credentialing, we offer credentialing. It's a lot of churches now that have become disassociated because of the landscape of what's happening in the church in America. And so we also have church partnerships that people can join the church family as well, family of churches as well. Even if they're leading a missions organization, we have counseling agencies, interhealing ministries. You name it. If you're advancing the kingdom and you're looking for a partnership of people who are like minded, who are trying to grow the kingdom of God, walk in relationship with one another, fulfill the great commission, then that's what we tell people. You know, that's what we're all about. What's the process like? Because I'm sure there's a vetting process to be like, except the part of the network. So yeah, yeah. We have streamlined our process. It's a lot less than what a lot of place of denominations are. But we do have an online application. Just click on the join the network. And if you're looking for your individual as an individual, just click on join the network as an individual. If you're looking for your church or ministry, click on that icon. And then once the application is submitted, we require letters of recommendation. We have then a Zoom interview that is set up with one of our interview team members. And then we have a board that looks at the application. If there's further questions, we'll get back and say, can you clarify this or answer this? And then a decision is made at that point. You know, sometimes we don't require higher education degrees. But sometimes we may say, based on what we see, we would encourage you to go and finish your degree or you know, we'll offer, you know, sort of a pathway. But if somebody has been in ministry, they have a lot of life experience in ministry, but they don't have the diploma. That is certainly not going to withhold anyone from receiving a license. It's based on life experience as well as education. Thank you. I have one last personal question. Yeah, would you meet your wife? We met in Babel School, actually. But we were going to the same church at the time, but it was a pretty large church. It was close to 1,000 members. So we didn't know each other. We just knew of each other. And so once we started going to the same Bible college, we spent a lot more time together and started dating. And then, you know, things got more serious. And I'm like, I think she might be the one. So we got married in 1990. Who liked you first? Oh, I'm sure I liked her first. She's beautiful. Okay, that's enough. I have no questions because for guys, that's just a beautiful. So I'm sure. Yeah. Okay. Last, I definitely leveled up. Amazing. She's a gift. Last two questions. What are you hoping for at Faithly? Yeah, I'm so excited about Faithly. Actually, we have been talking as a leadership team about, again, how do we network the network? And this is Faithly I see as an amazing opportunity for us to start from scratch years ago. We started a Facebook members group. It's sort of gone off, you know, into nowhereland, very limited activity. We have, we have a weekly prayer Zoom call. And so I love the prayer tab that's on there. We are always looking as everyone is, is how do we communicate over the loud noise of everybody else trying to communicate. And so just the ability within our own, is it, do you guys call it a group or within our own, we call, we developed a Harvest Network group on Faithly. So to be able to communicate in that group as well, what's happening in the network, you know, updates where people can update on their own lives, but also as a network, we can communicate what's coming up. And so it's just, it's like this is exactly what we need a fresh start, a fresh template. But also I'm excited about interacting with the larger body of Christ on Faithly. Not only for myself personally, because I love the network with people I love to hear what God's doing, I'm excited to find people here in Pennsylvania or people, you know, went out far from you guys in New York City, you know, but this whole Northeast corridor, I'm excited to just see what's happening in the Northeast and what God's doing and the various streams of the body of Christ. And I think Faithly is going to give us a little bit of a bird's eye view on that. And then of course, just helping people to find out about Harvest Network as well. I think Faithly will be a great tool for us to share with all of the Faithly community, what's happening in Harvest Network. So lots of different ways that we're excited about utilizing this great new platform. I keep saying new, it's new to me, I don't know how new it is, Daniel, but it's new to me. No, just keep saying new. It'll be new every year. But that was a great thanks. How can we be praying for you and your family? Yeah, it's a good question. My wife and I are now entering into Empty Nest. Our kids are getting married, married off, and so we're in the transition. But our middle son is actually on the mission field right now with Y-Wam, and so we can be praying for Josh as he serves the Lord overseas. All right, this was great. Thanks for coming on. Yeah, God bless you, Daniel. God bless you, and that's it for the podcast, guys. Bye. Thank you for tuning in to the Faithly Stories podcast. We pray this episode gave you the encouragement you needed to continue on your journey. 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