Letting Go of Religion - Godfrey Moye

When you get rid of all the religion, do this, do this, get up to that, get rid of all those things, and you like, who is God, what would Paul say about praying, about praying in the spirit, praying over people, we wrestle not against flesh and blood, well, if we're wrestling not against flesh and blood, there's something we need to fight in, well, spiritually fight against and for. And so it went from just, you know, I'm a Christian, I go to church, I'm a good person to know God has sent us into this world to impact the world. Hi, my name is God Primoie, I'm a youth minister at Lord Manhattan Community Church, and this is my Faithly Story. Welcome to Faithly Stories, the podcast that brings you inspiring tales from conversations with church leaders, as they navigate the peaks and valleys of their faith journeys through their ministry work and everyday life. Join us as we delve into their challenges, moments of encouragement, and answered prayers. The Faithly Stories podcast is brought to you by Faithly, an online community committed to empowering church leaders, pastors, staff and volunteers. Learn more at Faithly.co. Get ready to be uplifted and inspired as we unveil the heart of faith through stories from the front lines of ministry on the Faithly Stories podcast. Could you tell me how your face turned you started? Well, journey. I'll be honest, I started very early. My parents were, uh, brought me to church, I grew up in church, essentially my whole life that I can remember. Um, and my best friend to this day is, uh, someone I met at the church I was at. I actually, though born in Brooklyn, New York, I was actually raised in Alaska. And I went to a, uh, predominantly all black church in Alaska. I know. Um, and so yeah, I grew up in church my whole life, uh, saying in the kid choir and was a usher, a little kid child ushered. So that was always part of my life. I knew was church. Um, and we were one went to a very, I guess you call religious church. We went this church about three days a week. So it was a big part of my life. Um, but I, when I, I remember it fully accepting Christ. Like when I said, yes, I make, I'm coming forward to, to take this, this then was a 16 and actually, um, I always wanted to, I always know what's going to. Um, I think I just remember distinctly making the decision at 16, um, and feeling there was a complete change in me, um, as far as like how I wanted to be presented, you know, and how I communicate with others. Was there like a moment when you're 16 or really going through stuff? Like what, what at 16? No, I think, um, again, this is in church every week, every Sunday, every Sunday night. Um, but, uh, I'm in high school at this time. I'm in Virginia at this time now. I'm no longer in Alaska. Um, and I think, uh, the pastor, you know, made the, you know, I went to the traditional church, um, which I know the cases of, um, went to, uh, a traditional church where, um, they would make an alter call or whatever, like you want to accept Christ today. And I remember just filling in my gut, like, this is the time, like, this is the time. And so I just, just remember coming up and saying the prayer faith, um, and yeah, yeah, again, maybe there's something I knew what's going to do. I just decided that they just felt like, no, this is the time. So it's funny that you mentioned choir that, uh, I, I also went to church like three times a week, sometimes like five times a week. And I was part of the children's choir and the funny story about the children's choir is like, I was the first boy and only boy for a while because there was a lot of girls and none of the guys wanted to do it. And then my mom kind of forced me and, but looking back, like, that's how I got into music and like to read music. So I was like really grateful in that. So like for you, same, that's actually so glad you asked actually. Um, I remember crying because, um, uh, I was, uh, I had my best friend. We were singing. And then the choir trucker was like, you know what, God, for a year right now, you're an alto. And this is, you know, I'm, you know, 10, 11, 12, I was like, alto, but the girls are the altos. I have a third crying about it. Um, but now I'm so grateful she did that because I can sing pretty high. That's still so, um, so yeah, I, leading worship and something I will forever do. Yeah, I'm also to, they said, my voice was too high. Yeah. So, so what was Alaska like growing up? Um, well, my church were cold. But it was great. I grew up, um, you know, very woodsy area. Um, I grew up it was a dirt road to get to, to my house. Um, um, now we'll say, although I did grow, go to a predominantly obliqued church. Um, it was less diverse at school. School was, you know, this bike made me three African Americans and the rest were Caucasian. So, um, that's like new growing up. Um, and so, but it was, you know, honestly, I have no bad memories literally. No bad memories of growing up as a kid. It was obviously a different lifestyle. I mean, I walked my, we would walk, you know, you know, almost a mile to get to the bus. Um, you know, talking on the street, we had to, we tried to avoid the dogs on the way. Um, avoid running into a moose. You know, very different. I mean, I had, I, I saw moose give birth in my backyard as a kid, you know, um, so yeah, just a very different childhood, but also, you know, I, I'd probably say very close to most people who grew up in the suburbs. Sure, it's not too different. Um, as far as like just having friends in a neighborhood and walking down the street and, you know, playing games with your friends. Um, but yeah, definitely, um, just the winters were very cold. I mean, it would, it's still today, it still gets minus 20 minus 30 in the winter time. Um, so that's, you know, different. And snow was on the ground, like, you know, moving to Virginia. I think they closed the school when the snow and I was like, well, I have to close the school of normal. So yeah, it's a little different. So what's your family doing in Alaska? Military. So, uh, my dad married my mother after, after I was born. Uh, so glad he did. Uh, so, yeah, they're still married today, actually, uh, but we moved to, uh, it was through the military that we ended up in Alaska. Um, and actually through the military, while we left Alaska, we ended up, my dad got shipped or stationed in Virginia. Um, I'd outside DC, so the DC metropolitan area, um, when I was about 12 years old. Did you move a lot as a matter of the military kit? No. Uh, we only moved really major move was, was twice. I mean, Alaska, that's the one. Um, and we technically did move in Alaska, different base, but it wasn't nothing in my life changed, like some of the same church things like that. Um, but then again, moving to Virginia, and that was it, that was only like big, big move. I know most of my friends I've had, like they moved every four years or lived in Germany for some time, but no, as we ended up in Alaska for like 11 years, um, and then, um, to Virginia. That was it. Yeah, uh, I had somebody on, uh, she was wife of a military officer and they moved a lot, but he also got deployed. And I think Afghanistan during the war and so so she told me a lot about like what faith was like on the base and like how they have to like get like, um, support each other and like because you know, they don't know what their husband is going to come back and so it's always scary. So I can't, yeah, I can't imagine. I think my dad did leave a lot for trainings. Um, and then 91, I'm older, much older. So 91 go for, um, is when he did go there, uh, but he at that time was not like getting like, uh, like on the foot ground military guy who's more doing logistics. So he was, you know, back at the bases, um, in Iraq. Um, but yeah, he was there close to a year. I remember, uh, for the goal four. So from 16, like, how was your progression toward, um, um, I remember, you know, obviously state in church, you know, um, obviously I went to the church wherever my parents with my mom went, but I'd say not until I moved to LA. So I graduated high school, moved to New York for about a year so I got into acting. That's actually how I ended up in New York and then I got to LA. It was thing to do in acting. Um, and it was that that first year and it was nothing but God. I met a pastor, well, a young, well, a man who was boppy com pastor. He was starting a church him and his friend and uh, met them at a restaurant randomly. Uh, and it was through that church where like, I'd say my, um, I'd say love for God grew. Like I was always going to go to church. There was no no doubt I was going to stay in church, but, um, through that ministry, um, I began to like, I'd say my falling in love with God, uh, grew to a whole new level. Um, and I just, yeah, grew tremendously. I began to read the word like every day. Um, and uh, yeah, so a big part became like my life. Like it became like, yeah, this is what I'm be doing. So, uh, is the church still there? What's the church called? No, actually, that's a whole nother conversation. Um, the church did in a couple of years after I left actually, I left the church, um, but it was there for eight years. I helped this start. It was there from, I was called city of praise, Christian church in Los Angeles, California. Um, but it was, it was a very, um, I'll just say, uh, I grew up, uh, Church of God in Christ, which is Kojik, um, which is Pentecostal, excuse me. Um, and the pastor was raising the same denomination. Although our church was non-denominational, um, but we were very, um, would you say, um, Pentecostal, as far as spirit. Yes, yes. Well, spirit field. I'd say overflow. That was what the church was. I mean, it was a lot, it was like a military service. Like, I kid you know, we were wear fatigue some Sundays because we were, um, felt like we were going to war every Sunday. Um, and service would last a kid you not three, minimum three hours every Sunday. Um, and then we would just pray and worship and the pastor, you know, was very pathetic. So he would, you know, pray over people for another hour after service, you know, after he preached. So it was just like that every Sunday, like a, like a revival conference every single Sunday. Um, but I loved it. I loved every moment of it. Um, and, uh, don't think I would go to church like that now, but I'm so grateful that for that, that I'd say, I'd say it was my birthing. It was like my foundational, even though, you know, again, raising church, but that was like my foundation now in my eyes. Where's my, where how I, how I view the Lord and things like that. Yeah, I have like a charismatic background. So it's fun when you're young because you have a lot of energy, but as I get old, I'm like, yeah, it's a little too much now. It's just like, yeah, I extend the amount of peace. And yeah, yeah. Yeah. You know, I, I needed every once in a while. Um, thankfully we've, uh, I'm sure everyone knows about Bethel. They actually have a service here now in New York and so I've gone a couple of times. It's like, oh, it felt good to get in that and I haven't been in the atmosphere in a while. Um, but yeah, yeah, definitely is, yeah, again, three, three hours every someday. That's not possible right now. So what was it about, uh, that, um, environment and the pastors that helped you fall in love? Um, I think it was, we were so, how am I say this? Like, when you get rid of all the religion, right, uh, that's the, do this, do this. Get up to that. Like, you know, get rid of all those things and you like, who is God? What, what did Paul say, you know, about praying about praying in the spirit about, um, praying over people, we wrestle not a confession blood. Well, if you're actually not a confession blood, I mean, there's, there's something we need to fight in and, well, you know, spiritually fight against and for, um, and so it, it went from just, you know, I'm a Christian, I go to church, I'm a good person to, no, God has sent us into this world to impact the world, you know, I'm one of the, the, I guess, mission statements of the church was, you know, to be a city, a city set in the hill that cannot be hit, you know, it's like, no, we're, we're in this world to be a light in a fruit, you know, how can you shine unless you spend time in his presence, spend time in the words, spend time in worship, um, you know, how can you then be ready to go out to battle, you know, so yeah, it was just a different mindset, um, uh, again, more than just, I came to church, I heard a good message, I'm gonna be a good person now, you know, it was like, no, like, God sent us into this world to impact the world, so what do you think about, like, what was about that that resonated with you was like, oh, yeah, that, you know what, I'll say this, I remember, uh, after I stepped to Christ, I'm like 16, I'm like 17, 18 now, I'm out of church, church, my parents are going to, and I remember, um, for instance, I remember the pastor for once, they's, you know, you know, I hate to say, but my culture, but, you know, black churches, they all sound the same, it's like the same rhythm, they was like, okay, it's like, gotta be more than this, like, um, and then, um, but also worship, like, you know, again, I grew up, you know, gospel choir and singing in the choir and singing songs, and in that culture, I'd say it's more, you know, you hear a good sound, it's like, ooh, I grew up it's saying, you know, and as you remember, I needed something different, I just knew what I, I didn't know what I was looking for, but I know I needed something different, and then that first, um, time and prayer with the pastor, and then when we started singing worship, it opened my eye because I get, I love this thing, I'm an energetic person, I'm, you know, I like to jump around, I like to fill, you know, the song, and we would, again, we would worship for an hour, just jumping and praising and like, this is for the Lord, you know, and they talk about, you know, I'm a big cowboys fan, keep watching, and I'm a cowboys fan, I know, I know, but, uh, when I'm, you know, watch the game, I'm jumping, I'm, you know, I'm in it, and it's like, how can I not do that for God, you know, um, so that's what it was, it was just, this, this freedom of worship, this, you know, even the way he preached was this, he was digging into the world, it was going to be, you know, some, I remember, we were all like at our early 20s, and it's like, you know, 60 year old women are coming by, and like, you know, thinking that, oh, this is too deep for these kids, I'm like, what are you talking about, you know, uh, this is what we need, you know, it was like, you know, very, the, theologically sound, and just, again, just more than just your cookie cutter, you know, be a good person, you know, so yeah, so that's what it was challenging, I just, that's the word, yeah, so it's very challenging, it's like, be better, you know, go deeper, go deeper, so, you know, that that's, I guess it spoke to, to me, to my, my personality, and everybody, and everybody wanted that, believe me, a lot of people came through, it was like, I was too much, I'm good, and um, but for us, for those who were there is, we were wired for it. So were you still acting at this point? Yes, so, uh, I got to LA, and I was, you know, um, I was doing decent, you know, um, I booked a lot of commercials, and some working, um, and I, you know, did a little bit TV show spots here in there throughout, throughout the time, um, and, um, again, I'll throw this in as well, um, then all of a sudden, I really had this thrown desire, and I knew, um, at 17, I think it was 17, you know, 16, 16 or 17 years old, uh, the church I was at asked me to speak, um, just like a youth, little three-minute talk, and I remember giving it, and I remember, after I, I gave that three-minute talk, or five-minute talk, I was like, oh, I'm going to be doing this for a long time, like, this is what I want to do, um, and so I remember calling a friend, it's like, hey, I heard you have a speaking organization, and so I called him, and he was like, um, because I want, I want to like start going and speak at the schools, like, I really feel like I'm supposed to do that, and he did, and, um, so yeah, so outside of, you know, I was an actor, so all my jobs, I would just do, like, wait, I was a waiter, a classic coffee shop, you know, that's my job, but as far as, like, pursuing other things, it was the acting, and then speaking, I was speaking at schools, group homes, um, juvenile facilities, so I was doing that, um, hardcore, my years in LA. With a cuff given up acting for you? Um, no, no, no, so I kept, I was doing both. I was doing both. No, I mean, now, are you still an actor? So, okay, funny story. So, when I got to New York, I don't know, again, following the storyline, but my, my, now wife got into NYU at the program school, she came here, um, and at first I was like, no, babe, I'm an, I'm an actor, I'm in LA, I'm not leaving LA, you know, um, I got, I need to be in LA, um, and known behold, I got here and I felt the Lord just like changed, I mean, it was kind of crazy. He, I got to New York and, and felt like I've been on vacation, felt like I was home, and I was like, wait, what? Um, so anyway, I came here and I'm getting a job at a youth center, and it was at that point, actually, God told me to lay it down. I did lay down the acting, um, for about three years, and just, I'd say, 2022, 20, yeah, two years ago, he had me pick it back up, and I felt released to do it and showing up that year at book three commercials here in the city, um, just a shot one, the simmer of this past year, um, so yeah, I'm still, you know, still getting back into it. So, um, yeah, that's awesome, because, uh, I, I mean, I love movies, like I grew up movies, I watch a lot of media, um, but I see like, God working in Hollywood, little by little, throw a lot of actors coming out, sharing his story up with their Christian walk and whatnot. And it's like, well, in my perspective, being more accepting, not that, but that studios are accepting it, but like these, like, big name actors, like that are Christian or just voicing their faith, and I'm like, wow, God's, because, like, people love story, you know what I mean? And people love characters because it only resonates with them, and it's like, because God is a storyteller. Yeah. And so I feel like, movie and media is like the, like the next generation of the storytelling of the gospel. It's all, like, it's amazing that you're going to be part of that. No, I'm, yeah, it's funny, I, I have, um, I feel like it really strongly to like get into like a polygedics hardcore, like I was in it years ago, but now I've been like, really into it, like, we know different books and videos I've been watching, because I did last year, I ended up taking the acting class, and then long story short, they, I got cast in a showcase. I didn't even want to audition, but their director was like, no, you should, you should really do this, you should really audition, and then end up getting a part in it. And I remember being on, you know, through the rehearsals and stuff, and, you know, there's, you know, one of the, one of the people in the, in the showcase was a, you know, transvestite. In fact, there's a, and then the stage manager was a transvestite. Um, and I just remember like really, um, realizing that God really needs me in that space and to, to even more point, there was a young man in my showcase from my class who, um, he ended up end up sharing something in class about my, you know, that, my youth minister, and he called me, he was like, hey, man, I have been looking for a brother to, to, to talk with, you know, I'm, Christian as well, man, and I was so grateful to hear you say that, and, you know, so, you know, I was just like, okay, God, like, to your point, like, God is sending us there, and, and to love on people, you know, obviously, I'll always speak, you know, the truth, but the truth is love at the end of day. And so, um, I really, I really have been really strong, that God wants me in that space to, to love on people to, you know, be a living epistle, you know, red of men, you know, um, and, um, so yeah, but if those conversations come up, you know, obviously, speak in love and, and, and be able to answer their questions. What advice would you give, like, younger brothers and sisters who are trying to get into acting as a question, because, you know, in the beginning, you're kind of scared, from basically what I've been told from my friends, then like, once you get like more popular, and you have this leverage of being able to talk and not being afraid of getting canceled, but it comes out more. So, like, how would you encourage them? Um, again, I think it's just leading with love. I think that's just the biggest, biggest thing, and then finding your people within, you know, asking the Lord to send you, as they say, advocates, you know, in the industry, like you can, like you can talk with and have these conversations with, um, but also the number one two is just stay in your word, study, pray, um, let God lead you, um, you know, especially, you know, things will come your way that maybe, I'll say this, I will say this strongly, like maybe, uh, me, I'm not supposed to take a role, right? But maybe you are, you know, I think I don't ever want to tell someone, oh, you can't do that as a man, you know, obviously there's certain things, let's be very clear, the certain things that you probably shouldn't do, but, um, let the Lord lead you, um, as far as, um, what to do, what to, what to accept and things like that, um, and not sometimes we can be so, I think religious on certain things, um, but that's not to give room for being too lenient either, you know, there is a standard, uh, but I think to just, you know, stay prayed out, number one. So, how did you get into youth ministry? Um, okay, I can, like I said, I saw myself speaking to youth, all my life, um, I never, I don't think I ever really said, I'm going to be a youth pastor, I don't remember ever saying that, but, um, I just had a very strong, um, uh, desire to talk to youth about choices, about the choices they make, um, you know, I grew up, um, with a, you know, mom and dad, you know, two-parent home, and so many, uh, people have not, you know, um, and especially the, the kids I would meet, at the juvenile hall or counseling centers, that was not their story, um, and just realizing that so many young men and women have made choices that they didn't know there was another choice to make. They thought this was the only path, um, and so I just had a big heart for them and, you know, doing that. Um, so yeah, that led me to speaking at schools and, you know, I was, you know, abstinent speaker and, uh, you know, from drugs, alcohol, sex, the whole nine, and, uh, for a long time, but then, you know, I started having opportunities to speak at churches and, um, I remember being one of the assistant leaders, I was able to say pastor about assistant leaders at a college ministry in L.A. Um, so I started, you know, growing, growing in that, and then fast forward here in L.A. I met, uh, my name, Aswan Mors, shadow, uh, at, uh, Renaissance Church, where the church of my wife had found, and I started going to, and he introduced me to young life, and so through young life, um, I ended up becoming a youth, kind of one of the youth leaders, well, the youth leader, I guess, at, um, redeemed, uh, East Harlem with, um, pastor, uh, Justin, and, um, and then from there, uh, ended up, uh, taking on, um, becoming a youth minister through young life, again, um, at Laura Manhattan, at the church partnership they were having there. So, so yeah, so, again, it wasn't my, I say my ultimate vision, but now, and then I just actually just finished, I went back to school, and got a youth minister leadership degree at Eastern University, um, just wrapped that up this year. So, so yeah, I'm just like, yeah, youth pastor, youth minister, that's, that's what I'll be doing. Um, what's been the hardest challenges of being a youth minister? So I've done youth ministering, and I tell people, I'll never go back to that. I love that, trust me, I love that, but there's a lot of patience you need to have, you know, yeah, I, you know what, um, I get, I always tell people, uh, one thing I get explaining is like, how are you bent? We're all bent a certain way. Um, like I personally could never work, um, and a convalescent home. I love my grandmother, I love, but that's not where my heart is. Um, nor could I ever work with, you know, you know, three year olds, love my kids, my sons three, could never work with three year olds. Um, but I love middle and high school, love them to death. And, um, I, uh, just so passionate about these pivotal, um, seize, this pivotal season of their life, which, again, I talk about choices, some of the choices they make, um, they can either derail or propel them, um, in life, uh, what they're going to be doing, what they're not going to be doing. Um, so, um, I have just such a big heart for that, um, because I see so many people are age, you know, who have made those choices, right, either for the good or for the bad that they're still dealing with, you know, um, and, um, so I just don't want them to make those choices. Um, so yeah, I, I personally can't imagine not doing it. So, um, you know, especially even now, being able to disciple kids, meet them, been meeting a lot of throughout the week, taking them to lunch and just talking with them, and just realizing how important like, I just, I wish I had this as a kid, you know, um, I never had anyone come to me and take me to lunch as a kid and give me the word and talk to me about what I'm feeling and going through. Um, I definitely could have used it. Um, but uh, so yeah, you've worship leading something you're still passionate about. Oh, yeah. So actually, uh, young life, I've officially no longer work for young life anymore, but they have still subcontracting me out to do their music at camps now. Um, so I'll be, I did two camps recently. I'll be doing another summer camp this, this, um, for a whole month this summer, um, doing the music, um, and program stuff. So, so yeah, so definitely still passionate about it. Um, thankfully, I have some friends that have sung on his album a couple of times, so he'll call me up to go do some music with him. Um, he's a Christian rapper, uh, Randy Mason, shout out. He's amazing. Um, but yeah, so, um, so yeah, so I still get a chance to do that, um, occasionally. So what's going on in life now? Um, so now, uh, it's, uh, it's funny. It's, it was a bit too full when I was still in school, but now that school's done, um, on Sundays, I work at LMCC, uh, Monday, uh, uh, during the week, um, I go to schools and speak. My fact today, I have a school, uh, mentorship program. I speak at, uh, a school in the Bronx. Um, I go there two days and Thursdays, uh, but then on Wednesdays, I work with another church called Wallspring. I'm sure you may have heard of them, uh, yeah, while spring with Pastor Seth. Um, so I'm there Wednesday nights for my holy leader there. I'm not V, but I'm the co-leader there, um, which is, you know, perfect. Um, so yeah, it's great. Now the great, great group of kids there. Um, so they're every Wednesday night. And then like I said, Thursdays and Fridays is another school I help and speak at as well. So, um, so yeah, pretty busy. Um, got a school or a church to speak at throughout the week. So how'd you meet your wife? Oh, it was amazing. Um, at the church back in LA, and not now, not that church, but after that, I left that church, um, which is one of the conversations. But, and I believe in that church, uh, joining a church called Hope's House and Northridge, California. Um, I was there and, um, a couple of years, a couple of years into the church, uh, the youth leader over the all youth asked me to start a, um, boys, middle school boys mentorship program. She asked if she felt I should start one. I was like, you know what? Yeah. Um, prayed about it. And she was like, hey, we actually have a girl one already that's been going. And you should meet with, you know, the lady who was the girl who's running that. So you guys can maybe, you know, team up. I was like, oh, perfect. And that's her. Uh, we had our first meeting and the kids who not in that meeting, as she was talking, I felt the Lord say, I know this is super religious, but I heard the Lord say, that is your rib. And I felt it. And I was like, and the, and the beautiful thing about that is, um, I had got a giving this message. I spoke at a college called the original path marriage. And in it, it kind of talked about how God will reveal your wife to you. Um, won't be, you know, as, you know, as me, I'm always just, you know, looking at a girl that, oh, is that the, is that her? Is that her? Is that her? Is she like, oh, is that her? Um, but for her, if for her, she's beautiful. It made me very clear. But for some reason, you kind of like just having that focus on that. It was just who she was. It just spoke to me so strong. Um, those first time that ever happened for me. Um, and so, um, yeah. So she, she did, she, her, her side of it is really funny because she thought I was somebody else and thought I was married. So she's like, what'd he been thinking to even let me, let my, her brain go there. Um, but thankfully, we cleared that up. That wasn't me. Um, so yeah, we met at church. Um, and yeah, she said she's the one that got me into New York. So she was interested in you initially too? No, I think, yeah, I think she, it felt good. I mean, she remembers saying she loved our conversation. She's like, man, this is so natural. This feels so good. But she's like, no, he's married. I'm not let myself go there. Um, and amazing, amazing part of our story is she was living, uh, with, um, her cousin, uh, also her day, Mirita. And then her cousin's husband is Darnell. Well, for the past three years, I met Darnell. He's, he's actually was the main worship leader at that church. And when I met him, I felt God say you need to connect with him. And for three years, we prayed once a week together, him and I, for three years, had no idea that, you know, obviously, so she's at time living with them. And so anyway, when she tells them, like, yeah, I met Gottfried and in Mirita, I guess told her, she's like, oh my gosh, Gottfried is great. Like, we love him. Um, and she was like, I thought he was, he was like, no, he got nobody. So, so it was, uh, it was like, she was great. Like, God, God had him all mapped out. Yeah, God worked it out always. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, she, yeah, it's just so great. Like she, you know, it's like, no, hang out with the buddy. So she was like, oh, and so, um, I called her and asked her to coffee and we did and rest his history. So how is fatherhood changed you? Oh, man. Um, a lot. I mean, obviously, as you know, it's, it's, um, I'm trying to even put in the words. Um, I just, in my back of my brain, I'm always like, am I good dad? You know, am I, but I, I, I just try to love them as much as I can. Um, I, um, I don't know. I definitely feel like a different person. Um, you know, the way my, my, my thoughts go, you know, before it was just, you know, you think about yourself, obviously, and, you know, obviously, when we got married, just think about her. Um, but now it's, um, you know, making sure they're good, making sure that they're taking care of and protected and I'm kind of a worry work. So I'm always like, you know, God, you okay? Did she get hurt? She okay? You know, uh, I have a seven daughter and a son. Um, and, um, so yeah, I don't know. I'd say my, um, obviously, I feel like I've been more responsible even, but, you know, I was getting better, but definitely now it's like, you know, trying to be on time, trying to do things the right way, um, making sure, you know, like, like picking the kids up from school, things like that. Um, so I don't know. Yeah, I, I, yeah, I honestly, I can't, I don't know if I can put in the words how it's changed me. I really don't know. Um, I just know I'm different. Um, yeah. So, what advice would you give young, um, couples about marriage and, you know, parenthood? Oh, um, just the hardest part, um, I'm sure most parents, uh, you know, parents would say it is when the, when the kids first come, um, like we struggled with remembering that, you know, we're more than just roommates, you know, that was the biggest like, especially having two, you know, they're 15 months apart. Um, and for us, it was just like really, um, being sure we're, we're connecting, um, because you, it really does become focused on the kids, focused on the kids, focused on the kids. Um, and I'd, yeah, so that those, when you first, you know, pregnant and maybe comes and all the, like, just really have conversations about, hey, checking in with each other, how are you doing? You know, um, having those, um, honest conversations, um, one of the grateful things about, I love about my wife and I is that we're able to speak honestly, you know, um, with each other, like how we're feeling, and so, um, yeah, so just making sure like you guys can, like communicate even more, um, with each other, um, and then one thing we're also learning, because now our kids are talking a lot, you know, uh, uh, is for us to, uh, making sure we, um, probably communicate about things before getting in front of them, you know, because sometimes I think we'll both have different ideas about something, uh, about the kids, what they're asking and then the kids are sitting there watching us kind of go decide on something, um, which is, you know, can't plan that kind of stuff, but just again, I think just trying your best to just talk to each other more, um, it's difficult because we both work full-time jobs, you know, I mean, again, my job is not full-time. I work multiple different things in the room, but, um, you know, especially with her job, um, we, um, we don't get a lot of time together, you know, um, because it's, get the kids, I mean, go to work, do the work, get the kids fed, put them to bed, and then try to figure out those last couple hours before you fall asleep, um, so, yeah, so I'd be the number one thing. Well, me and you fall in love with her. Oh, man, like I said, that first meeting, um, I knew I felt something, just about who she was, um, but she is the most loving person I've ever met in my life. Um, her heart is so big, um, and I remember taking a strength finder, and, uh, if you've ever done that, like, I think that the lowest, I guess is 34, and empathy was my 34. And so I knew, like, uh, that wasn't me, but it was just her, like, she, um, is just literally the one of the sweetest person, um, and the way she cares for people, loves on people, you know, loves me, but, um, just watching, again, watching her, um, and just way she, you know, her attention to details, um, she's just great. I mean, she's a senior manager now, so attention to details part of her, her resume, but, um, but yeah, she's, um, and she's, she loves loves the Lord, um, obviously number one, um, loves God, challenges me, you know, um, especially on the heart matters, you know, um, she just, yeah, she knows, and she knows how to from day one, she knew, I would say, I felt like she had the codes to my heart, because she knew how to say things, um, like I said, she could say anything to me, and she just knew how to say it, um, that would cause me to just like, oh, okay, so yeah. And how can we be pranked for you and your family? Um, I think this, uh, the time, um, which I'm sure every New Yorker would probably say, um, just, uh, praying that we can, um, maximize our time, I think one of the biggest things is, um, I think over the last two years is, you know, as I said, it wasn't my original plan to, uh, for a vocational ministry, um, and so now this is our second church vocationally, um, and so, I think just, you know, navigating that, you know, because I get the church in, I go to work, you know, we don't go to church to sit together and, this is the word and, you know, so it's been a very still new, um, thing for her, um, and for me, um, so I think just, uh, navigating, um, our spiritual, um, walk together, you know, um, cause right now, it does feel sometimes a little separate, you know, um, cause even, even as anyone that was working in ministry, you don't sit and hear the word a lot, you know, in my role position, um, so, yeah, it's finding that time to sit with the Lord and, and even us praying together more to, I'd say, just pray that we can, um, find place at the tapping together, you know, spiritually. All right, thanks for coming on, podcast, God for you. Oh, thank you so much. Yeah, all right, that's about the podcast, guys, bye. Thank you for tuning in to the Faithless Stories podcast. We pray this episode gave you the encouragement you needed to continue on your journey. The Faithless Stories podcast is brought to you by Faithless, an online community committed to empowering church leaders, pastors, staff, and volunteers. The Faithless Digital Platform offers innovative and practical tools and resources to enhance connection, foster collaboration, and promote growth within the church and ministry space. Remember to subscribe, rate, and review our podcast to help reach more listeners like you. Stay tuned for more uplifting tales from the frontlines of ministry on the Faithless Podcast. Stay bold, stay faithful, and never underestimate the power of your own story.