Life Beyond Labels - Kelsey O'Connor | Faithly Podcast

It was through some of those moments of having to be so still and so quiet and recovering to feel like no matter what I do going forward and regardless of what I didn't accomplish that I wanted to, but I'm still loved for who I am. Kelsey O'Connor, welcome to the Faithless Stories podcast. Thank you for having me. I'm so excited to be here. You are a former D1 athlete, you're a motivational speaker and you're a consultant. We'll talk about this later, but you had a commencement speech that went viral to 70 million viewers, but let's start at the beginning. So being a division one athlete, I'm curious. Growing up in your early years, did you always have a sense that sports would play this huge role in your life and your identity? I did. Yes, I grew up in a big sports family. My dad always worked in the sports industry. My brother actually now has a career at ESPN and so we've always were like around sports talked about it and really early on I just, I grew up with two brothers. So I loved being competitive. I loved just playing outside with them and so really early, I just had my own love and passion for it and started playing softball when I was about seven and then when I started playing travel and getting a little more serious around 10, 11, 12, I just loved it so much. So I did kind of have an early idea that it was just part of my family and then part of something that I love to do. And what did it feel like for you that moment when you found out like it, you're going to be a D1 athlete, like your dreams are coming true. How did that feel for you? Yeah, it was, I mean, it was amazing. Honestly, I had a really interesting process even to get to NC State to be honest with you. I recruiting started very, very early for me, especially in the softball world at the time. There wasn't regulation and so the recruiting process started as early as middle school. So I was probably preparing for college longer than I was even in college. I was sending emails, going to camps, getting really serious about it very, very early and knowing that that was my dream to play division one. And then I actually committed to a school downtown Chicago. That was division one of Loyola, Chicago. My thought I think was my sophomore year and that was kind of my decision and then over time realized that that wasn't the right fit overall and had a really amicable, I called and decommitted from that school, just knowing that it wasn't the right fit for me anymore because I decided at 14, 15 and then changed what I wanted to study where I wanted to be. And I mean, that coach was actually the first one to wish me congratulations when I ultimately went to NC State instead. But it was interesting because I left that really with an unknown ahead of me. I didn't have any other schools that I was talking to. Obviously, I was committed to this other one and wanted to re pursue that dream, but also find the right fit. And so, meaning that once I got to NC State, it was like the whole package. It was a dream come true, not even just from softball and ACC and wanting to commit to another large division one school, but it also was just so perfect for me and every other way. And I felt like I was absolutely just handed this dream of everything that I wanted in a school and in a place and in North Carolina. So I mean, it was just overwhelmingly amazing. It was I was so filled. Wow. Yeah. Well, thank you for sharing all that because I think for those of us who are not athletes who didn't grow up with this dream, I don't think we know what it takes. I mean, to know that you had to begin this process like emailing and reaching out in middle school just blows my mind. I mean, I remember what I was doing in middle school and it wasn't it wasn't pursuing a dream in this like methodical and really diligent. Well, thank you. I appreciate that. Yeah, I forget sometimes it's interesting like being out of it now and looking back at just like the whole lifestyle of it and really loving parts of it and loving being past parts of it. Just the early mornings, the late nights, the emails, the just the grind of it. And yeah, really appreciating it and a lot of the young kids go through it now. But thank you for asking. I think having a better understanding of like the years long process, like really like that happened in your adolescence to get to that place, it's no wonder that it becomes the core of your identity because you're pursuing it with with such intent and intensity. Let's talk about when this changed. In 2021, everything changed. You had an injury and a cacushion. What year were you in college at that point? I was a junior. Yes. Oh, it's pretty crazy actually. You know, when you say it starts in adolescence and being a junior in college, like it feels like your whole world up to that point, you know, majority percentage of your life is playing this game dreaming about it. I had actually had multiple head injuries throughout high school and concussions before. And so yeah, in 2021, I was a junior. And in the fall of my junior year, we were practicing. And I was it was a routine practice. I was running bases. We had some girls in the field. My coach hit the ball to the shortstop to do a routine double play. And as I was running from first base to second base, I was just going in to slide the second base. And our shortstop instead of making a lane on either side of the base path just came straight through. And so as I was sliding, she just came full force, like knee for straight into my face on the base path. Man. So how did you know in that moment that it would be a life alter? I think deep down I did. I felt, especially looking back, I felt the shift and I just knew that it was different. And I knew it was so intense so fast. And the pain was unlike anything I'd ever experienced. And as I mentioned, it's really crazy. I mean, my my high school experience, I'd had multiple concussions. I had been through I'd been a specialist. I had been through months of rehab and therapy. I'd done the all the regular symptoms of the lights are too bright, the noises are too loud kind of thing. And when this one happened, it was just so immediate and everything was spinning. And I just like knew. And I got hit in that moment. I kind of stumbled like stumbled off the field. And I'll have like, I remember it and don't at the same time. And it was at the same time was very gradual and abrupt ending because I was denying it for a while. Obviously that it was going to be this life altering and thinking I could come back. But also, you know, over the next six weeks, it was just really apparent. I think I knew in that moment. But then over time, pretty immediately, I just had to pause everything, especially with a head injury. I mean, it really is like you can't have a lot of stimulus around you. You have to just sit in a dark room for a while. That's kind of what they recommend is just letting time pass. And so I was really fortunate. My family had actually moved from I was from Illinois. They moved to North Carolina. So they were 15 minutes away from me. So I had this injury and I was able to spend some time at home. And my professors were fantastic. My academic support was fantastic. And was able to take some of that time. But I had never experienced some of the symptoms like cognitively that I did with this injury. So pretty fast. I was really struggling to read. I was seeing kind of double. Everything was blurry. I was struggling to write. I was like confused. I was in this like constant state of confusion. I mean, even over the course of a couple months, I was forgetting things about myself where I was getting lost or I had thoughts. And I couldn't articulate them for the life of me. I was like stuttering through my words. And that on top of the physical symptoms. So it was a head and a neck and a jaw injury at one time. So fractured and dislocated my jaw, had braces put on for the second time. Was seeing a specialist for like nerve damage. I already had a my neck from the first concussions and just seeing all these doctors and doing all these things and being kind of isolated and really trying to make it through school. And then at this point, I was starting to get emails that I was failing my classes and maybe not going to make it through school. And so all of that kind of that one time was was really apparent to me that it was going to be, you know, life changing, life altering. And ultimately I I medically retired after about six seven weeks. And then I was in a car accident a week later. And very fortunately, like walked away for the most part, but suffered whiplash, which like sent my recovery all the way back. And so it was like a second impact syndrome, post-concussion syndrome, like everything went back to square one. And that recovery, that's why it became so, so long and so life altering is that back to back injury. So you're so strong. Like you're you have such a resilience and such a I think just a deeply seated like joy and ever since about you, like even the first time I met you, that it's so hard for me to imagine what it must have felt like for you, especially after that second injury. Talk to me a little bit about like what it was like to be to have suffered this like second injury as you were trying to recover from the injury on the field. It was devastating. I think that was probably my lowest point was already having. And those like six weeks, it seems so fast when you think of six weeks in just regular context. And like in that time, it just moved like molasses. When I tell when I explain it to people, I almost tell them like imagine you're getting on an airplane with no phone, no book, no music. And you just have to sit there and let time pass. Like that's how long it feels. So and for someone who's like on the go, you're like, you're balancing academics with like a really, a really demanding athletic career, like you're used to things being like go, go, go all the time, right? And then you go to the how long would you have to spend in the hospital after the field injury? I was really lucky. I wasn't hospitalized hospitalized, which was good. It was more so just like going in for like the MRIs and things like that. But then you go home and you said it's kind of like a waiting game, right? You have to just let time do its work. Yes, exactly. Yeah. Yeah. So I was really lucky on that front. I wasn't in the hospital for days and all of those things. And I know people I've gotten to talk to through this work that have had like truly injuries like that. But the car says, but I mean, it was just devastating because I had I just reached this breaking point in general of feeling like I lost my athletic identity and this dream that I'd worked my entire life for up to this point. And as a young girl, I felt like my family invested in me all of this time and travel. And I mean, I would wake up at four in the morning and a couple was on my mind all day, like putting things together. And that part of me was gone. And then academically, I also was really proud of how I balanced things. And I was really involved in the school. I was like an honor student and just involved in a lot of different things doing research and really lucky to be part of all those things. And that was gone. And I felt like part of my identity is just feeling like I was intelligent and smart and contributing to this school was also gone because now I was failing. And I didn't even know if I was going to finish school. And I wanted to be a social worker, which requires, you know, finishing school, obviously. And so I didn't even know if that was going to be an option for me anymore. So my career was kind of unknown. And then even just as a person, I had such emotional symptoms. I was just going through all of this at one time. And especially with concussions, like you can just have really enhanced mood swings. And I was a wreck. I was yelling at my family. I was crying. I was forgetting everything that I said. I couldn't even articulate myself very well because I just my brain was just a puzzle. That was just so jumbled. And I felt like every piece of my identity was gone. And so to feel like I was holding on to this little ounce of hope of getting better each day. And then kind of to get knocked back down just felt like why is this happening? What am I not learning that I'm supposed to? What did I almost like do you blame yourself? Because you have no other reason that like explains it. And then but at the same time, it really was kind of a catapult to, you know, help me figure out what it is. I could control and how I was going to move forward. But that's such a good question, though, because I think a lot of people experience that moment in one way or another, whether it's a life changing loss or injury or change. Well, so you're obviously in a very, very different place today. Yes. How what was the turning point for you? How did you go from devastation and loss of a multifaceted identity right not just as one like not just one identity as an athlete? How did you start to move out of that? Yeah, I love how you said start to move out of it because it really was a process. And it's funny actually when I was preparing for this interview, I was looking through some of my old journals because sometimes it just helps me to be able to like look back and of course, I'm in such a different place now. And it really was I took the time that I needed to miss softball and miss who I used to be and just like if I wasn't going to get better, I didn't know how much I was going to recover or if I would be the same person. And then over that time, my family and kind of stepping outside of myself and realizing that I might not be my old self, but I could still be a really great version of myself. And that's when I really I wrote it down on my phone. I made this resolution of like starting to describe other people differently. And I thought if I'm going to rebuild a healthier identity for myself, I'm really struggling to show myself compassion because I just I feel like I failed. I don't know how to go forward, but the people in my life were so wonderful, my family, my professors, my doctors, and I thought I'm going to start changing the way that I describe them and I see them. And that will maybe change the way that I see myself. And so I wrote it down on my phone that I was going to start describing people by their attitude, how they treat other people and just what makes them unique. And like my my mom, my brothers, and just describing them for their energy and their hearts and how positive they are, but also sensitive they are and how they treat others with such respect and they light up rooms with their energy. And so just describing them in that way really helped me to start to see my own qualities and all the qualities that I developed through the things that I was doing. So I didn't have soft money more, but I had developed a resiliency and a dedication that was going to be able to stick with me forever. I could just apply it to new things. And that really helped me to see those qualities that I had built up and decide what it was I wanted to apply them to next. And it just really it changed the way that I saw myself and the world and the people around me and this beautiful way. And I just had so much more gratitude and appreciation for all of the good things and the support I was receiving and what I did still have. And ultimately taking some of those things and applying them through some of my work and social work or internships, I really wanted to step outside of myself. And so I was doing a lot of volunteering or stuff in the community. And that really gave me a purpose to kind of see bigger picture, allow time to pass gain experiences outside of this bubble that I was in. And so just really that resolution and commitment to seeing other people myself differently and then also step outside my comfort zone and meet new people and be open to that kind of side by side was really that process of moving forward. Wow, that's thank you for sharing all of that. It's a journey, right? And it takes time. And what I heard you say was that you had to grieve who you were first. There's no rushing past that process. You have to properly grieve it. And then I sort of heard you say when you were talking about like seeing the qualities and other people, I heard you tap into your gratitude for them, which allowed you to tap into your gratitude for yourself. And to show yourself that kindness and compassion that you clearly have in spades for all those around you. Wow, so thank you again for sharing all of that. Can I ask you what role did your faith play in this whole process? Absolutely. My faith is like the core of all of this whole story and who I am. And I love this question because I had a strong faith before this injury. And it was one of those things where I had heard it. I had felt it where my identity is in Christ. It's not in what I do with who I am. And then when this happened, I felt like I was like really faced with it in reality. And I remember like I had this moment. I was sitting on my floor like in the dark just trying to recover. I was just feeling the whole way of this. And I remember feeling like if yes, my identity is in Christ, but this is where I spent all my time. Like this is what I was contributing to the world. This is what I was doing. This is where all my friends were like who am I like without all of this? And I did feel like when they talk about you know having faith the size of a mustard seed like that is the size that I felt. And yet I also felt loved and I felt like it was through some of those moments of having to be so still and so quiet and recovering to feel like no matter what I do going forward. And regardless of what I didn't accomplish that I wanted to, like I'm still loved for who I am. And then really going into well, who has got created me to be? Who is he calling me to be? And that's kind of where some of those things came from as well in terms of attitude and how we treat other people and what makes this unique and feeling like, and I can still control my attitude and God calls me to be kind to other people and compassionate and and use some of this unique experiences and education and things that he's gifted me. I still have that and I can go find some meaning in that. And so honestly, you know knowing that just Jesus says all of who you are and feeling like I didn't I'm known by him so I don't need to be known by everybody and I didn't I didn't come back on the field and went all these accolades but really putting to the test like what that means to have identity in Christ but also take responsibility in action for like who I'm called to be in creating meaning out of it and making turning it into something beautiful. I don't know why it happened or what the case was but just turning it into something meaningful and then he absolutely blessed me in so many ways. I feel like I was introduced to people and met people and obviously the speech ended up happening and just all of these wonderful beautiful things and I think my faith just carried me through that really slow time day by day just trusting and hoping in an outcome that I couldn't see or not even an outcome but just a lightness and a joy and I would just kind of sit and envision myself being joyful when I wasn't and knowing that my goal was to get back to being a joyful person and that was really the only goal. Well the the presence of God is so apparent and so alive in you and your story. So thank you for sharing that. I mean I think what you learned in just your first 20 years of life because at this point you were probably about 20. For some people it's something they learned when they're 40 or 50 or 60. So I think it's a beautiful gift to be able to know the Lord in that way and to understand that your life is that way but it's a hard one lesson. One that came with a lot of pain and a lot of trauma. All right now that's fast forward to 2023. You've earned your degree in social work and then you're standing in front of almost 20,000 people delivering your commencement speech. Tell us why what brought you to that place like why were you the one to give the commencement speech and then tell us what happened after? Oh my gosh yes so it was really crazy. I mean so by the grace of God I was able to recover after about like 10, 11 months and at this point I was heading into my senior year. So I ended up having a few months of the senior year that were just incredible. I felt really involved in my community. I just my family was truly like they were the ones to help me get back on track with education and all these things. And so in March what NC State does is they email students and they have an application where you can write a speech, record yourself and then apply to speak at the big commencement. And so I mean I was sitting on my floor as midnight and I got this email and it was kind of a combination of things. Number one I kind of wanted I wanted to share this this resolution that I felt like I had found because I also felt like other people could feel it too. In the sense that we always get asked about what we do and what we're doing after. And yet I had been around so many resilient wonderful people and like they deserve to celebrate their intrinsic qualities too. I also my family was coming but they weren't coming to some of the small one. They were coming to the big ceremony and I thought oh my gosh how cool would it be if something personal was there for them versus just the big ceremony. And so I basically I decided to write the speech and I recorded it. I recorded it in a t-shirt. I still had braces at this point. I was on my floor. It's like blurry, it's a blurry video. I did it in two takes and I sent it in and I didn't I told my mom that was it. I didn't tell anybody and then they called me a few weeks later and told me that they had chosen me. And I honestly was like should I take it? Should I say yes? Like I don't want to do these people to service like 30,000 people I've never spoken publicly before. This is crazy and ultimately just decided to go for it and do it and oh my gosh just incredible. So what would you have said if someone told you before you gave the speech that 70 million people would watch your speech what would you have said? I wouldn't I would have said you like that's crazy. I would have said that that's insane because yeah I mean so I did the speech and like on the day of I laugh with my phone because I was almost kind of blacked out of like nerves. I mean walking up to 20,000 people last year I couldn't make it through a discussion and so it goes really well and I felt so loved and then it was a month before I decided to post it and when I posted it. Okay so where did you post it? Did you post it on YouTube? I posted it on TikTok. On TikTok. Okay. And then a Facebook pop culture group like Lad Bible pop culture asked like picked it up and then it just went everywhere and it was all over their Facebook, other Facebook's YouTube. Like just kind of everybody took and ran with it and oh my gosh just incredible. I had no idea that it would have that kind of reach and I've been it's been like most like humbling experience of my life that so many people felt felt it and resonated with it. Yeah I would have told you that that's that's crazy. Well so it sounds like it didn't happen all at one time like it's not like you gave the speech and overnight 70 million people saw it. It sounds like it was a somewhat gradual process where like you shared it here and then they got shared and shared and shared. As it was being shared like you had this time to like develop feelings about it right. Did you feel really happy it was being shared or did you also like I just put myself in your shoes and I can imagine being a little fearful and maybe even like what all these people think of me they don't even know me. Yeah oh my gosh you know it was such a process. So it was really interesting. Yeah I had that month after the speech but when I posted on TikTok it did go viral pretty instantly. Like I woke up with hundreds of messages and it was my first post ever on TikTok. I know. Oh no way. Yeah so I was like whoa um and that was pretty crazy and then the fact that it was like day after day after day and it was pretty steady viral over two weeks like over two weeks it was at like the nine million whatever. Wow. So it's like really fast in that sense and then I got the email from some of the pop culture and at that point I was just so grateful. Like anybody who wanted to share it I was like please absolutely like if it reaches somebody and it helps them like that's the whole point. People asked you permission that's pretty unusual in social media. Isn't it? Yeah it was really kind. Yeah there's been some people that I've asked to to quote it. I just had somebody this last weekend who reached out to me a year ago asked to quote it at this big event they were doing and um was telling me all about it so really kind. Yeah some people have asked permission and and that's what it took off on Facebook and then it just went everywhere and so but like you were saying as well I mean I really thought that at some point it would die down and obviously it's not I'm not waking up to hundreds of messages but I mean even two years later I have messages in my inbox or comments or repost some people that are just finding it and that's been pretty incredible. It's led to all the speaking opportunities that I've done so basically I want viral and then I started getting messages from people inviting me to events and to speak at conferences and universities and businesses and kind of inviting me just all over to come share this message or this message in a longer format and tell more of my story and I was at a point where I was oh I was able to say yes to all of them and it was so incredible yeah it was this gradual almost building of a career as well and I knew that I knew the virality would change but seeing that it's led into something genuinely sustainable and being able to travel and speak to people about this message and also seeing that it's continuing to reach people it's just it's the most incredible thing I just feel so grateful and humble about it I just had no idea that it would reach people all over the world. Wow well so but you were a woman with a plan like you had a degree in social work you had a plan for your career but then this video takes off you get these invitations was there a moment where you said oh gosh like this might actually be my calling like how how was that what that discernment process yeah oh my gosh that's a fantastic question so it's I was really lucky I was taking a gap year after my undergrad because I had applied to some graduate schools but I didn't get in and so I knew that I wanted to go back to school eventually but I had this gap year and that really afforded me the opportunities when I was invited to speak to go say yes and there was that moment right I was 21 years old and so going viral on TikTok I mean all the possibilities for my head and I thought should I be capitalizing on this and like becoming more of a presence do I want to continue to go the sport psychology social work route do I just focus on public speaking like where am I supposed to go and then I did feel very overwhelmed by one making that decision and not being sure if I was going to commit to going back to school or pursuing this or doing it at the same time and then also you know the more attention you get absolutely I felt actually more paralyzed by the fear of what people would think of me the more I put out and the more that I shared and feeling like I started out with this viral great video most of the comments are really kind some aren't but most of them are and so feeling like the more you share obviously like the more harsh it can be and so I really was kind of a whirlwind over that year of deciding what it was that I wanted to do and I ended up going back to school and getting my masters and social work I'm getting my certification and mental performance consulting and deciding that I wanted to commit to that because it's what I wanted to do but then over that time again I thought the virality would down down and I still had speak engagements and so now I'm at a point in my life where I'm really I feel more mature and more ready and more grounded to really commit to the speaking and pursue that as my calling now that I've seen that it's it's a message that's not just relevant because it was so close to the time that it happened but it's a message that's relevant because so many people feel this way about feeling like they're defined by something and just helping each other to remind one another that were more than that and give them a framework for how to even describe themselves and others and so yeah that discernment process really has been ongoing up until almost a recent season in my life to say I got my education I did what I wanted to do I feel more grounded in the message that I'm sharing and now I'm going to go actually pursue this as my calling as I had that opportunity to build it so yeah it's it's been I feel like a lot of people come you know they have a lot of options and even on social media we see a whole plethora of options we could go with our lives and so that was a difficult discernment piece to say do I want to be am I supposed to be big on social media but that's not me that's not really my personality so I'm going to go in this direction and do more in person and if that answers your question it absolutely does and I want to I want to dive a little bit into like something you said almost as as like just like a totally random detail but I thought was so important you said that oh you took a gap year you applied to graduate schools but you didn't get in thank you that's such a vulnerable thing to share thank you for sharing that because I think when we look at other people's lives especially people who have been successful and achieved things it's really easy from the outside to envision a straight line up right but we all we all encounter closed doors but look at how your closed doors were an open door to a different facet of a career that you would never imagine for yourself absolutely thank you yeah absolutely um yeah I mean so true you know when we get rejected from some of those things it feels personal and it feels like what am I going to do it's things right it's things for all of us no matter how many times you get rejected yeah well it's crazy but a lot of those rejection letters came that February and I applied to speak that March so it really just you know yeah I'm so glad that you pointed that out yeah and it wasn't a forever no you you you went back and you cut your education um but the Lord had a timing for you and only through a closed door could he open doors that you didn't expect him to open I just it that seems like such an important part of your story at least to me and um so I just wanted to call it out all right one one one question for you um on the comments that you received so um I'm not surprised to hear that the vast majority of them are positive because your story is so inspirational right but even in your inspirational story there are still like negative reactions um and it seems like you you have like a very you you have a healthy way of putting them into the right place in the right context but can you just talk about that for a second just like what it is you feel when you see a negative comment and how do you like do you ever process for putting it in the right place absolutely this is a really good question I was actually just talking to somebody about this um I think it shocked me when like the first time you see some things say something negative about you and they don't know you it just kind of shocks you and I had really decided that like one of my things when I was getting all those good comments was I was trying to respond to as many as possible I was like thank you thank you thank you and when I got a negative one I couldn't respond to all of them in general so I really decided I was like well for one I'm not gonna respond because I'm not gonna prioritize attention to the negative comments when all of these other wonderful people are leaving me positive ones and I would so much rather prioritize that than this over here I think also the quote I've heard it um it's not mine but just that if somebody does it have my phone number then they're not close enough to know me to give me that kind of like if they don't know me to have a problem with me then like I'm gonna take that I'm gonna ask the people in my closest circle you know it's for feedback and constructive criticism and all those things and so I had a support system also to talk it out with like I had people in my life that I would bring it up to and talk about it with and so I didn't feel like I was carrying those negative comments alone and it did hit me I will say like I'm I'm someone that I would I think is pretty strong and can take those things but it also hurts your feelings and when you feel things very deeply like it takes a second to to not take it personally and you really also just have compassion for that other person and just decide that it's you're gonna be neutral about it and just you know like that's a tough way to go through life to be negatively commenting on other people's things and you don't know them and um having a little bit honestly switching it back to gratitude like we just talked about like I'm really grateful that I've had people around me that taught me how to look for the good and celebrate other people and and be the good and not everybody has those influences in their life and those kinds of examples so how lucky am I that that's how I get to go through life and just gonna try to not take it personally so a couple different things that I guess I used to deal with it or I just put my phone away I got to turn it off go back in my real world for a little bit and decide that it's way smaller than I'm making it um because yeah I mean it hurts your feelings 100% I mean actually especially I was so in and out of the social media part of it and posting and then completely reclusing from it and then posting and then completely reclusing from it like being fearful at 20 21 years old of any negativity and talking myself out of things for fear that people would people would judge parts of my story that actually hurt or when somebody said something that felt a little bit real that those ones hurt the most and I almost had to tackle my insecurities before other people could so like writing down a list of things that I was insecure about in my soft book career and then what people were saying about me and the way that I looked the way that I sounded and almost like writing those things down in a journal and saying like okay now that I've addressed it myself if somebody else does I've already I've already come to terms with my own insecurity so it's okay if that makes sense it makes a ton of sense and you are so full of wisdom Kelsey like this this wisdom that you have is hard one but it is wisdom and like I said I think there are people in their 40s 50 60s who are struggling with the very things that you've sort of you've walked through I think it's important to say it hurts your feelings so thank you for saying that I think so many of us think like in order to operate at a certain level or be a certain kind of professional you almost have to have no feelings but that's not what it's about we want to be soft-hearted like that's what enables us to be gentle and compassionate especially like as faithful followers and as faith leaders but I like the strategies that you outlined the phone number test is so good if they don't have your phone number then they probably don't have the credibility to speak into your life right that's a really good one so I'll be taking that one along with me so Kelsey you know that a lot of our listeners on this podcast or pastors or ministry leaders who I think at first blush most of us would think oh they know their identity they don't struggle with identity issues like their pastors their leaders in their church but the truth is this is a struggle for every single one of us I feel as if this entire conversation has been a masterclass an identity but is there anything else that you would call out if you were talking to someone who struggling with separating who they are from what they do is there anything you haven't covered yet today that you'd want to say to that person oh such a great question yeah I think especially for pastors and church leaders you commit so much of your time and your mental space to others and to being present in your work from what I've seen and what I've heard I've said I'm not a pastor but just you know listening to some others experiences and so I would say one giving yourself compassion for your identity being wrapped up in that because yeah it's where you spend your time and all those other things and I would say I think I covered this but really just emphasizing making a list of all the qualities that you have that are put on display through your work because when you can really focus on okay when I'm listening to others my congregation I'm being patient I'm being sensitive I'm maybe understanding accepting and really finding those attributes that are that are coming out and the work that you do can help you to the really that's the identity of you as a person and your character yes and I think that just helps us to really reframe not tying it to where it's being output so that one it does change or that one we do feel a little bit burnt out or wrapped up in it you're able to just come back to like where it's coming from in your heart and that can that can't be taken away from you that's so good thank you Kelsey all right last question what what is next for you oh my goodness so I more speaking I am really trying to book out my speaking for 2026 I'm getting hopefully we'll be getting my certification and mental performance consulting in the next few months through the applied sports psychology board so that is something that I've been really pursuing but really wanting to take that and work with all kinds of people and really apply it to some of my speaking working with businesses teams colleges students churches all over so really as I finished the certification it will be getting back on the speaking train and really trying to travel and just spread the message I love it so if we have a listener who wants to get in touch with you about a speaking engagement where can they find you yes okay so the best place to find me would be my website which is Kelsey O'Connor.com or my social medias or Kels O'Connor 6 and they can just send me a message I always look at them especially if they're positive right Kelsey yes perfect and we'll include all of those in the show notes thank you so much Kelsey for coming on the podcast it was really a joy getting to know you and I know that this conversation is going to bless our audience thank you oh my gosh I really appreciate it you just have such a wonderful energy and I'm so glad to have been here thank you 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