Listening to the Holy Spirit - Seth Bazacas

And we'd still say in the midst of all of that, there was this dissatisfaction that would not let me go, and it started to get to the point where it culminated with my wife, right, that it centered on the person and the Holy Spirit, that there was more, that there was just too much of a gap between what we were seeing in Scripture, but we had personally experienced in our life. And we'd leveraged everything at this point. Man, we've done big sacrifice, and we've gone for the big thing, and it was all good, but if I'm honest, it was all just kind of okay. Like really, is this what it's all about? Is really this worth it? All, is this what we're leveraging our life for? My name is Seth Bizakis, I'm the pastor at Wellspring Church, also the city director for Alpha here in New York. My family has been here for over 15 years. We love the city, and we are expected for what the load is up to. Well, we don't always get it right by any means, but we're committed to trying to live a life that only makes sense if the Holy Spirit shows up, and so this is my faithless story. Welcome to Faithless Stories, the podcast that brings you inspiring tales from conversations with church leaders, as they navigate the peaks and valleys of their faith journeys through their ministry work and everyday life. Join us as we delve into their challenges, moments of encouragement, and answered prayers. The Faithless Stories podcast is brought to you by Faithly, an online community committed to empowering church leaders, pastors, staff, and volunteers. Learn more at Faithly.co. Get ready to be uplifted and inspired as we unveil the heart of faith through stories from the front lines of ministry on the Faithless Stories podcast. Could you tell me how your faith journey started? Yeah, I can. That question is always so loaded with life and journey and the way the ups and downs of life take you. I would say from a very young age, I have a sense of the nearness and the presence of the Lord, which was a gift because my parents got divorced when I was young. There was a lot of back and forth. I lived in many different states, and that came with all the traditional ups and downs of divorced family life. But I can honestly say, as I look back and reflect in the midst of those hurts and pains, loneliness was not something I experienced because I felt like the constant through it all was the Lord. That probably culminated aggressively in my teenage years when my father had walked out of my life. My grandmother, who was kind of my artistic and personal inspiration, was killed in a car accident. My brother, who was really close with me through all the life journey when I went away to college. And then I was a gymnast at the time and I was training and I broke my back. So I literally meant a body brace, interaction, can't move with incredible amounts of loss. And I would say there was a solidifying thing that the spirit did when I was in that place of brokenness where I really felt like I had a pathway to go in any direction. And I prayed this prayer of like these holes I had, just like gaping and hurting in my heart and forgot to come fill them. To be honest, it was not even that faith filled of a prayer. It was an encouragement from an old house painter who was filling in as a youth pastor that encouraged me in a diner to pray that prayer. And I remember praying that with a little faith, but then miraculously over that next year seeing the Lord come and meet me in powerful and tangible ways and fill those hearts of those holes in my heart as a constant. So that would be like strong solidifying days. It would then propel me into university and my young adult years which is a whole other wild journey of what the Lord ultimately did in my life to bring me here. So you said the painter was a step in youth director. What's the story behind that? That's amazing and still just like one of the primary most like inspirational things to me. He's a dad. He was a house painter, old blue collar guy. There was a need in the church that I was in at the time for discipling the next generation and he committed and in the midst of that really broken and hard time for me. I just remember he always taped me to a diner. He always brought his Bible whether he opened it or not. He was so encouraging. He listened to my hurt and pain. We shared like a pretty crappy bowl of vanilla ice cream every time and he ministered to me. You know and honestly it was pivotal. It changed my life. It's just the value of the role of like speaking into the next generation of just being a constant friend and being there. It's just been burned out in my heart and very grateful for that man. So how do you feel like all these early losses in your life shaped you to who you are now? Yeah so I put a lot of thought into that and as the Lord continues to evolve right it is it is that piece of the the ability to will one thing to be satisfied in him alone and to really ultimately to understand him as father right as him as kind of my all-consuming desire and my constant place of need the only place to be satisfied is what allowed me kind of on some levels it forced me to find that but then the grace of the Lord for him to actually come and fill those places into be that has really allowed him. I really cling to him as father. Have you ever reconciled or reconnected with your dad? No that's actually a huge huge prayer in my life a constant intercession and in it's been over 20 years and he still is alive and you know that is one of the the additional pieces that has deeply formed my faith to I've seen God do some miraculous and amazing things and yet to also have one of these things that is so core to my heart that I've fastened and contended for more than anything in my life to be the thing that has still yet to be answered in the way that we're longing or has also just like made me desperate for the Lord anyway yeah it's a big part of my prayer life and hearts desire so yeah do you expect to talk about that today so do you have children? I do have two boys so they really sweet and beautiful about that in the restoration of the Lord because my brother and I of course don't have my dad in our life and I have two boys and he also has two boys and they are the same age that wasn't planned so we get to raise those the young men together which is a real gift and a real blessing there's something really sweet about that. So how did that shape the way you father now with your kids with you internet? You know Danny I'm still learning to figure that out other than I have a burning desire in my heart for those boys to know that they have loved to have safe space with me I contend for them deeply in prayer in intercession and I seek to be a constant and a continent in their life so I'm really grateful to have the opportunity to be a dad. So you're talking about your young adult years and the wildness of that could you explain? Yes so I guess the wildness was like it's like I've lived many lives when I tell my testimony when people see and I even recognize it even in terms of career in the way the Lord has unfolded that and so kind of my journey is this unfolding story which you know you need to bring up my grandma initiated in the arts the passion for music for theater for the power of storytelling the uniqueness I felt like the Lord giving me that passion but it evolved in so many different ways I'd say my what happened over the course of like 10 15 years was a discovery of kind of the broader kingdom call which I'd say for myself and for my wife is a desire to see no line there between secular and sacred we want to see no division there that it's all kingdom and we're trying to work basically it's like my career journey to the point where I'm pastoring and doing alpha and we have actually multiple different kind of startups and unique ministries going on right now from the launching of a coffee shop to an online content thing to like you name it has still been the working out of saying like hey I want to be postured like Jesus to only do and see what my father's doing and if he's up to something I will be willing to become that or step into that whatever it takes to see the kingdom come in all these spheres and places so the first place I worked that out was in the arts like I said the power of storytelling and the arts a new ministry on some level was going to be a call there I was sold out for the Lord as much as I knew then as a you know 18 year old boy so but I'm like I have this passion for the art so I want I got an undergrad in bible but I pursued the arts at a university that kind of had the small conservatory program that accepted like 12 people a year that's where I met my wife we pursued theater we got agents we did showcases you know kind of always with the eyes toward New York knowing would be a bit unconventional and so we came to New York as artists faith filled believing God was going to use that kind of as guerrilla ministry and also be light in the darkness of power of storytelling telling redemptive stories and it was wonderful and terrible all the same time it was a great journey my wife and I the more successful we got though for us in this journey she's more probably more of a pure artist than me and so she went further and longer but the more successful we got and I got a tour all over the world and do Broadway tours and do different shows and but the there was always like this dissatisfaction there was probably will be a continual theme through my story it's like there's got to be more than this you know I felt like a line item I set out to do redemptive storytelling and be the light in the darkness and I'm like man I'm just like a line item for whatever the producer wants me to be I'm away from my wife all the time I'm away on the road from I can't be established or rooted in community my heart was in New York and then I would hit the road so I just began a season of saying like Lord I'm open I know there's more and it but it feels weird to just uproot my life there's always been that theme like Dwight's uproot and go to seminary or whatever I'm like no I have community here you're moving like so I just like became a sponge as well like I say like I'm sitting on an airplane I'm at a restaurant or a bar it's like I'm open to any conversation I'm learning I'm listening and that was what I called began the the series of long story shorts for me one the first thing that came up was a ultimately it had opportunity for there was this Christian nonprofit that had bought an old theater that kind of got all messed up during hurricane sandy and they didn't know to do with it and I pitched a vision to be I became the artistic director I ended up getting this job or remodeled it as a first run movie digital movie theater and up running secular films but I'd write Christian reviews for it we also blew out some of the theaters we made a live theater and then late night we'd blow that out we'd give free popcorn away to kids it was on the boardwalk it was on a short town there we'd bring him in for like bring in worship bands we're doing late night evangelism and then kind of running this movie house and theater and that started to change everything for me one is because I realized there was kind of this entrepreneurial spirit inside me and a little bit surprised we honest it just from the pure business side of things that the theater was more successful than we anticipated you know and then stories go right the that board was filled with a bunch of successful and wealthy business folks who said hey look you have some vision and energy we have real estate in capital let's keep keep this thing rolling and so I opened up a second theater with them and then they had say what would you do if we went after something called a family entertainment center and I got to play and vision that out and then again long story short trying to follow the leading here hey is it maybe faith and orders at more of like faith and work and business and I'm in this group of Christian business men and we're going to do like redemptive business again something I believe in you know again this broader kingdom call no no line between secular and sacred and though this phase not all glory I honestly I became a workaholic which is probably my tendency and I went hard I opened up seven or eight companies in a couple of years I was given way too much capital and responsibility for a young age it was like a guerrilla style MBA and it was hard you know and I was burning the candle at both ends and it kind of culminated in this spot for us kind of a classic moment I guess when you think about it the CEO and his wife took my wife and out and I out on their yacht and we're out on the boat having drinks it kind of pitches me the big vision and you know setting me up to be you know heir apparent down the road grow and develop and you know offer the beach house and the money and all the things that I never would have dreamed of or thought of especially as a younger kid who initially went into the arts you know pursuing passion more than finance was always my you know mantra and I remember getting in the car after that time out with the boat and the Lord's always been so kind to speak to my wife and I together and he conjured up a memory we'd had when we were sophomores in college we knew the Lord was going to call us into great sacrifice and he brought up that memory and we looked at each other and we both said it's a no and not that it was wrong by any means we just knew it wasn't the story the Lord had for us and he brought up that memory and we just had a sense it there again there is more to be honest a lot of the faith and business and the overlap there I was like man we're just Christians doing business they can you know like there is more and that was a tough thing and I had signed contracts I had I ended up quitting that job kind of more set of obedience and anything really disillusioning felt like the Lord was saying now is the time into like just leverage everything for the church I remember a very specific moment on the subway I felt like the power of the Lord came over me and I just began to weep and weep and I just kept saying I got to be part of the healing I got to be part of the healing and I felt like this was like an acute moment where the Lord was saying and a direct call towards vocational ministry so I didn't know exactly how that would play out um so I quit the job I had to get of equity in those companies but I felt like I was part of what the Lord was asking part of that sacrifice and I had started to build my identity and wanting passivity of income again nothing wrong with that in fact I champion it if you can make it happen um but for me I had earned that out of striving and I feel like the Lord was calling for a moment for me as a young man to say to go all in in this regard and so I gave myself to the church at that point I started I raised support work for free he became part of a group of churches called Trinity Grace I went to seminary and kind of emphasis in church planting and exegiting culture I I'm like I'd been opening businesses so I'm like I'll start doing this for the kingdom I opened up a community development center let's be good news to the neighborhood um you know and so opened up a community center uh we intentionally built that you know non-religious so we can engage almost pre evangelistically as a way to engage the culture partner with the city that we can't is the level of church is it a bridge to the church be good news to the neighborhood no matter what you believe um and that's when I got introduced to alpha uh and just like this burning heart okay we can build a bunch of cool things but our people getting saved became an associate pastor within Trinity Grace uh and this is the last piece of the story but it's crucial uh that brings me up to today or really I mean to buy today I mean like the last eight years uh but this was the impetus of those I would still say in the midst of all of that there was this dissatisfaction that would not let me go uh and it started to get to the point where it culminated with my wife and I that it centered on the person of the Holy Spirit that there was more that there was just too much of a gap between what we were seeing in scripture what we'd personally experienced in our life and we'd leverage everything at this point man we've done big sacrifice and we've gone for the big thing and we'd opened businesses and thought outside the box and we'd open theaters and we're all on guard in ministry and we've been the traditional I went to seminary and we'd open a community center seeking justice and renewal and it was all good but if I'm honest it was all just kind of okay like really is this what it's all about is really this worth it all is this what we're leveraging our life for um because it's honest it feels like spinning on a forest fire and it's just kind of like bringing of like a handful of marginally good nonprofits into the ecosystem and I remember it just it wouldn't let us go the God brought us through a season of just like emptying of ourselves of deep repentance of um hungry and thirsty so it really has been our story in that season of the of bless for those who hunger and thirst for righteousness for they will be filled um and when we ripped out our TV we got rid of all content I mean we didn't look at a piece of media or content or television for over eight months I'm just seeking there has to be more that culminated for us as a time and a trip to London um this was tied in with alpha but we went to Holy Trinity Brompton and in the side little gathering filled with handful of pastors from around the nation we encountered the filling in the presence of the Holy Spirit in a way that can radically change our lives I would say it from that moment on it's like ministry and life went from seepia tone to technicolor and just the revelation that it's like know everything begins in his presence everything begins in the place of prayer it's not like we weren't praying before but it was probably more honestly like we're doing the thing and we're praying that God meets us in it and contending for the thing as opposed to it's like being birthed and initiated in his presence you know it's like Lord what are you doing do I really make joining what I see the Father doing only led by the Spirit and we're interacting with the Lord in real time like we have this conviction that we never speak about Jesus as if he's not right in the room and what's available in the ministry of the Spirit and the power of the Spirit and that there is forgiveness there is healing emotional and physical available there and it is I just evoked the question not just is the Lord true but is he real and available now and that's like blew up everything that everything the Lord began to move really quickly those were the early days of us ultimately taking a conglomeration of communities replanting having the opportunity to lead the church that is now wellspring we became that in 2017 kind of like a replant and or plant establishments of this church over the the history of Trinby Grace and Skyline and a couple churches in the neighborhood and so we've got the joy of leading wellspring for the last seven eight years and always basically feel like we're just hungering after his presence trying to learn and be in his presence at least just one step ahead in the north just give it all the way back to the people we want to give away anything that he pours out seeking after him and ideally being in people that are led by his presence well what's that memory in college that made you realize okay don't do the art thing and pivot yeah I was I was a knight that I'll we'll never forget I mean we were it was simple enough we were sitting on the couch in the living room we were praying we were kind of talking and processing about our future right we're a couple years into dating we felt so young but we had a sense we're probably going to marry each other um like in discerning together and I felt remember sensing the presence of the Lord there with us and that it was for whatever reason as much as we knew then it was a holy moment but part of it there was like a fear of the Lord that came on us in that moment and it was a sense of like will will I be your everything like the Lord is saying that like um and can you put everything on the altar and there was a sense like they were I felt like there was a clear ask that we both sense like the Lord saying will you put everything on the altar will you sacrifice everything for the sake of the things I want to call you into and we we had that moment where we basically consecrated ourselves before the Lord including our relationship instead we'd be willing um if he sent us I'm not knowing fully what that meant kind of then just went on with our lives from that point but there was a marker in our faith journey in our relationship journey I like that word you said marker there were like timestamps the god always like you said it's later on he'll remind you of like oh that's what that meant right so for you after coming back from London and having this I guess reawakening of the spirit how did your how did things change for your church like how did you guys do things differently and what was different yeah so to me so everything shifted in terms of paradigm and metrics everything began in the place of prayer so and I went like I ripped it to the studs basically literally like um staff meetings for as long as I can remember there at that point which is still a huge part of our culture now became just like worship in prayer like four hours we would get a guitar we anybody would open and sing we pray we'd ask for the Lord to speak we'd minister to one another my elder meetings you know board meetings became places of worship in prayer our initial leadership meetings were all about being in prayer and worship at the center it's like we needed a front load just saying like no this the the headship of the church has to be Jesus we have to fix our eyes upon him you know see him first and all these things will be added to us um and then we also ended like contend and ask and like learn and discern what does it mean to function at my prophetic edge and hear and understand the voice of the Lord how do we do that appropriately what are the guardrails that we need as we're starting to see the Holy Spirit move and supernatural ministry come up because that's one of the most powerful and beautiful things it's also one of the ways the church has been derailed so much over the ages um so that that was a huge piece of that it was I would say it's probably teaching into a more true healthy trinitarian view of of the Lord Father Sun and Holy Spirit not Father Sun and Holy Bible um and making sure that the the gateway to to that is the scriptures right it is a very scriptures that tells us about the spirit but truth unlocks um the spirit and greater faith uh teaching into that the framing of our our ministries and our models around the place of prayer and presence and then um the biggest shift I would say because a lot of it's cultural right so we built a lot of our culture of our church really basically became around alpha which was radically ordinary hospitality opening the doors to everybody the love of the neighbor but through the posture of listening so it was a lot less of us how do we listen well how do we ask good questions how do we be safe and welcoming place but with a high level of faith and prayer and expectancy that as we come around the table together or as we come into the church together you will meet God right just like it says um like in the place when they were prophesying what is the sign when people when the prophetic gift is activated in a church uh people will come in they'll be cut to the heart and they'll say God is really among them and so there's this heightened expectancy and in faith in the way we interceded and prayed that people will meet God um but then the pressure was fully off of us it's like our focus is on hospitality listening welcome and then um prayer expectancy worship and high faith uh with the expectancy the people will come and meet God but not necessarily through us they will meet God for themselves so how do we create environments and spaces how do we come the kind of people that facilitate uh places and relationships where people can explore and meet God for themselves um so that was a huge uh cultural shift uh peace for us as well so how did you get started i mean connected with uh alpha yeah it was just like a series of random events of introductions and uh there there was a season in those early days that um was just basically there was a huge church fighting boom in New York City and a lot of money was infused and a lot of cool churches popped up doing a lot of cool things but to be honest there was like a lot of like these were a lot of the cool churches that uh your pastor in the midwest told you to go to when you moved to New York and so there was church growth happening but there was not a lot of salvation there weren't a lot of prodigals returning there was not a lot of death to life um so people were being disciple in the way of Jesus in New York City which is wonderful but where they finding Jesus and that began to break the hearts of a ton of leaders around that time that's where alpha stepped in and just said we'd like to infuse we think this might be it's working in London could this have a greater surge in New York and i got that opportunity to um step into that story and help start uh alphas and a number of churches um just recently a couple years ago is when i stepped in as a city director for alpha in New York kind of based off this heart and vision of sensing like even more on this back end of COVID some things that the Lord is doing around uh unity around hospitality again and research of expectancy i think spiritual hunger is at an all-time high that i've seen you know there's plenty of stories of the damage and the hurt in the decline of the church but bottom line when you talk to the typical everyday New Yorker they're open to spirituality they may not and not may not have the specificity of Christ but they're open to spirituality they probably pray they're certainly open to energy and power they've probably experienced evil if not other forms of power in their lives and so there's a potency to alpha and then this desire for like unity it seemed like um any prayer gathering we were in anything we're doing where there was different churches different denominations different races uh the spirit was showing up in greater power which is what always tends to do to bless unity um and so a big part of stepping in as a city director just it was that we were champions of it at well spring to see alpha expanded to spaces for the local church to be empowered to reach those outside the church but also a vision for unity to where like the citywide alpha vision that we carried got birthed where uh we uh as many churches that want to in particular times and seasons throughout the year we pray together we train for alpha then everybody does alpha in their own context because the gospel will always move along relational lines right we're not trying to create some big giant brand uh or courageous like no we want the little book church to be the darling really to thrive for those relationships to thrive but there's certain things that we can do they're better together so then we come together and there's a retreat weekend or a day that is part of the off experience that we help host is alpha USA and so we have all these churches that come together um some big some small we had to the last one we did have three different languages represented are 12 different denominations and uh it's just wonderful experience that each individual church couldn't necessarily pull off on their own and certainly not with that kind of diversity and potency um we're gonna rent out a whole camp and retreat center and do it together and we've really seen the Lord breathe on that we've seen many many more churches jump in and be willing to try alpha because of pathways like that and um so I was kind of the heart for us saying the myths of like our church growing and kind of dabbling with some of these other things um just it's we're so grateful for what alpha's been to us they were like yeah we'll step forward um in this kind of alpha role for the city because I just feel like God's hand is on it right it's not rocket science it's a meal it's um I call it slow drip apologetics through relationship you know over dinner um but just time and time again you know it softens hearts and people encounter the Lord it's I'm a I'm grateful that to be an advocate for it and just help anybody grow in that so a lot of churches do alpha but I've gotten different flavors of it like you said people do differently but for you at Walsming it seems like it's part of your ethos um and um even going to that event where you're explaining alpha could you kind of just share with the audience like what are some patterns of bad alpha and maybe oh we should like reassess this and then move toward like a better pattern of how to incorporate alpha and the purpose of alpha that's so good so alpha is definitely not a silver bullet right tell people it's not a program it really isn't it's best when it is a culture like you said an ethos in your church which is hospitality expectancy and prayer reliance on the Lord the end so that's the piece where the alpha could go wrong we rely on self we're just so conditioned to have all the right answers to watch a correct uh to want to guide and really ultimately because this is under the rubric of evangelism the end goal is that we have like an objective right if the problem is when you have an objective which is not a bad thing um fully is you the mistakenly sometimes can objectify people right and so you're trying to force a conclusion at the end and especially in this cultural moment that's kind of the kiss of death um you know time again you see Jesus asking way more questions he's the one person in all of history that actually has all the answers could do the mic drop on everything and yet he chooses usually to follow up a question with another question he lets people come in a little closer to explore to follow him he doesn't seem too urgent to force a conclusion nor does he chase them down when they're not it doesn't mean it doesn't reap him doesn't mean he doesn't weave or contend in prayer um but he allows them he wants to foster the seeking because when you seek you will find um and so that's where saying an alpha will go well when you foster an environment that is safe that is non-judgmental where people truly can seek that can get part way there and part of the seeking is you have to allow people to get off track uh to get get it wrong and not interfere in that journey but hold space and hold genuine relationship uh as you continue contending contending prayer and be a genuine friend uh so my hope too is in a successful off on a church is regardless uh where somebody goes and anybody's always moving on a trajectory of faith right you're familiar with the angle angle scale or anything like that you know regardless is hopefully a genuine friendship does occur hopefully you really get to know somebody and their story and find genuine affection and love toward them uh and then really where they go and the progression of their salvation journey isn't fully up to you uh it doesn't mean you you don't put it out there on some level but uh that is not on you it's the Lord that saves it is there yes um and so are we fostering those kinds of places where people can meet the Lord where they see the Lord have worked in us where the gospel is put out there but I was I think more and more um people are looking for examples more than they're looking for answers um and so can we literally embody that not only personally but in the environments and the spaces that we hold that's effective I think in alpha uh when your church carries that culture when your people carry that culture um where there's an expectancy there and then when it's covered in prayer I mean I'm not the story I tell with every alpha that's story I preach constantly one of my personal heroes is this is DL Moody who had a hundred names in his pocket that he prayed for for their salvation in this general uh you know 96 or 97 of those names come to faith in his lifetime we need the power of prayer is a battle going on for the hearts and souls of people um and we need to contend in prayer for those the real battle is in the trenches of prayer and then you know alpha just a space we get to love people and introduce him to Jesus could you share that story about the cat that was so good about cat big god my friend john originally told me this story at this alpha years and years ago he actually used to come to lead alpha and such a beautiful way now himself really embodies this so well but there's a woman that came to alpha who um uh one of the stories so you're everyone's getting to share openly and articulated god as a cat um and so typical evangelical tendency right would be to want to correct that theology I mean that theology as far as bad theology goes as pretty cringey you know that the lord is a cat and so a very normal response would have been like oh no this is actually who the lord is or this is how scripture says typical bible study language or these things like that but in the alpha space and at this alpha they really honor the model oh that's interesting tell me more why do you think that allowed her not to be shut down um and kind of lived with this kind of weird deviation in the conversation of this woman's image of uh feline god I guess uh that progressed out through the weeks and that kept coming up ultimately they got part uh over halfway through the alpha course uh and it came up that this woman is alone she lives alone she has no family uh she's deeply lonely and the only good thing in her life is her cat uh and so what the host came to realize is she was imbuing actually a really beautiful image of what the lord could be and who Jesus could be in her life with her cat the one good thing that represented uh the one who allowed her not to be lonely uh they ultimately then were able to use that for her to come to faith in Jesus and understand who Jesus really is and uh you know what we believe in alpha right like you never get to the week five moment of her making that connection about the identity of Christ and where that accidentally hits a very real thing in her heart for her to ultimately have eyes to see and open her heart to the lord if week one you shut her down in her bad theology you know one thing Nikki gumball says um who's the founder of the alpha course uh which is be like um when the person not the argument you know and so you could win the argument pretty easily in a setting like that you'd have won the argument the con is not a cat but then you may never see the person again uh you may not create the space in the environment for them to explore to go on that journey um and so pretty amazing story and there's the encouragement to ask questions to be a good listener and to allow people to go on the journey to experience the Lord for themselves because there we always say to you like you're never going to logic somebody into the kingdom you know uh it has to I think Tim Keller said that which is interesting because like the best litigator and most logical speaker I've ever seen in my life but like even a great Tim Keller monologue is gonna logic you into kingdom even Tim would say you have a gospel like the good news of Jesus has to hit an existential place for you for it to become good news for you um so that's kind of that model so what are some new habit and patterns you've developed to not be that workaholic because you know once a workaholic always workaholic so like what are some of the things you do to kind of like prevent yourself from getting there yeah so you know as a pastor even I it's a couple different things so I have uh we're we have membership in our church like I believe I know myself enough to know that the way of Jesus is the good and right way and I also know myself enough to know that uh I can't get live that way on my own uh so shared accountability is huge for me within our staff team within uh fellow pastors that I create like core groups and ask hard questions you know so uh even in my best intent intentions I would still say my tendency would be to want to cheat on the Sabbath of anything right so we're really trying to create an attentional rhythm of taking a Sabbath and wrestling in that way and taking breaks and um you know I try to pray pray the hours but maybe there's really like praying morning midday and evening like am I am I building my metric on my clock my life around rhythms and times where I'm never that far away from the presence of the word from never checking back in and being in that place um so I build that for myself but again like I'm saying I'm just owning that it's not just self-discipline like uh I invite people to speak into me uh and say hey man are you resting um you know I have uh accountability members that will say hey how is your Sabbath going uh so I set those rhythms but I also share those rhythms with others and that's been a huge thing for me to think I would have the best intentions in the earlier days too now and I set them but I didn't share them with others um and so that's why I do think more and more uh one thing you created with rhythms and you know is an advocated building out like a rhythm of life for yourself or a rule of life if you might be familiar with that um but I think ultimately all of our rules of life need to be shared and lived out communally uh and that's made the difference uh for me is to share my weaknesses and share my intentions and desires and a John Mark Comer that said our deepest desires are not always our strongest desires or vice versa right our strongest desires are not always our deepest desires and uh I deeply resonate with that because I deeply desire to be at one with Jesus to be a man of rest to be a non-ancient presence to be attuned to the voice of the Father uh but man I have some strong desires to like get after it and work hard and accomplish and experience and all those things so yeah that's something I'm still trying to learn now is there's this thing about like confession and voluntary like submission to others so yeah yeah because it's so it's so easy to hide even when you feel like oh it's not a big deal but like yes I can't be the judge of that for myself you know I need this is why I have this accountability of like I don't think this is the big deal but what do you think you know and so it's hard because like you said when you're like in a go-go-go it's like I get the idea and I run with it and you never ask anyone else but now it's like every step I got us ask everybody and it's it's such a weird different yet like better way of operating so yeah I hear you quick quick confession uh something our team is just centering on the most like most of our staff time yesterday was around prayer and we were talking mainly about confession and it was like are we fostering confession and appropriate enough way within our church community is right confession we ultimately like accountable to the Lord but like James says we confess one to another for healing uh and uh just like I feel like the more we can live our lives where we are quick to confess um it creates so much freedom and so much healing um we don't have it all figured out but that's that's really something we're really circling around right now as a community is a whole around the valued uh uh shared confession in that way yes and on top of that like I think too often Christians think confessing is when I get caught I need to confess but it's more like very different yeah it's like no these are the things going on inside of me that you can't see but I feel and the thought and so I want to like share those things um how do you give me your wife uh man yeah it's I love the story I understand it's a bit hallmarky but it is my story so um so we're both at undergrad um at college and there's a there's Christian University and so like uh there's an opening like candlelight uh devotionals what they call it it's like a big worship night with candles out in the amphitheater at the university and um there was we were worshiping there I remember and I remember standing worshiping my eyes were closed and uh at some point I opened my eyes and worship and I realized apparently at some point all the amphitheater everyone had sat down like I didn't get the memo the people weren't standing they'd all all sat and I looked over and in the entire amphitheater of thousands there was one woman who was still standing and seeing and belting her face off uh and it was my wife and I would I pointed to her and I said I'm going to marry that woman um I would hold my journal about it that night actually I talk I call my brother on the phone I said this is crazy um and then that journal entry from that night is actually what I used five years later to propose to her what was it about her that like caught your eye or caught your attention unadulterated zeal for the Lord kind of unbridled passion she was singing for one person you know just like pierced my heart you need to go back to the art and create like a movie or script uh final two questions uh were you hoping for it faithfully oh man so tools are so important I think it would be such a great ministry tool we need effective smart useful ministry tools um I'm I'm grateful for faithfully willing to pioneer to create connectivity we know unity's hugely on the heart of the Lord I can bring unity we're stronger and better together can bring greater connectivity that's shared resourcing but even to share access like there's so many times um I can't tell you probably how many pastors and ministries and initiatives feel like the best kept secret um because there's an awareness issue there's a communication breakdown uh there's just less knowledge of what's out there because you're so with right in front of you so I hope that faithfully can help solve some of that uh be a voice of connectivity uh and then um continue to build out strategic tools uh that allow allow um people spend more time on ministry and less time on logistics and how can we be praying for you in your family oh thank you we are um so I guess it's twofold so it is it sends lofty right but there's such a boldness so we have kind of this mantra of audacious faith and to say um we want to live a life that doesn't make sense outside of the move the Holy Spirit it's a wonderful thing to say something that burns on our hearts um but when you really then start to live that way there's an incredible amount of dependence and a incredible amount of discomfort at times of yielding and waiting and so I think we're learning that balance as a family what does it mean to like put yourself out there to yield to wait to fully embody this posture that we want to move as we see the Lord and so I think we need to learn patience because our initiating drive is to drive to go we do feel a strong sense of urgency to build for the kingdom um but we want it to be initiated by the Spirit and so the primary voice over my heart um and our family right is um if it's birthed in the flesh it has to be sustained by the flesh if it's birthed in the spirit of the sustained by the Spirit and we deeply want a little life that's sustained by the Spirit we've lived many years being sustained by the flesh and we don't want that for us or for our kids that's really good thanks for sharing yeah um well that's a fun podcast awesome bye guys thank you for tuning in to the Faithly Stories podcast we pray this episode gave you the encouragement you needed to continue on your journey the Faithly Stories podcast is brought to you by Faithly an online community committed to empowering church leaders pastors staff and volunteers the Faithly Digital Platform offers innovative and practical tools and resources to enhance connection foster collaboration and promote growth within the church and ministry space remember to subscribe great and review our podcast to help reach more listeners like you stay tuned for more uplifting tales from the frontlines of ministry on the Faithly podcast stay bold stay faithful and never underestimate the power of your own story