On the Other Side of Fear - Willie Alfonso

People think that when you come to the light, you know, with me, some of these pastors, they say, Hallelujah, praise the Lord. Come on to Jesus. Everything's going to be alright. That's a lie. It's just the outright lie. You come to Jesus. Everything's not going to be okay, man. You know? But I mean, I rather go through what I'm going through with Him that by myself, right? You know what I'm saying? But I can't allow the things that are coming, that are coming my way to rob me of my joy. Welcome to Faithly Stories, the podcast that brings you inspiring tales from conversations with church leaders, as they navigate the peaks and valleys of their faith journeys through their ministry work and everyday life. Join us as we delve into their challenges, moments of encouragement and answered prayers. The Faithly Stories podcast is brought to you by Faithly, an online community committed to empowering church leaders, pastors, staff, and volunteers. Learn more at Faithly.co. Get ready to be uplifted and inspired as we unveil the heart of faith through stories from the front lines of ministry on the Faithly Stories podcast. Welcome to Faithly Stories. My name is Pastor Adam Durso, and I am sitting alongside the founder and CEO of Faithly, Alicia Lee. And to my left here is Chaplin Willie Alfonso, my guy. The man. Chaplin to the New York Yankees and the Brooklyn Nets. But it didn't start with that kind of pedigree. It didn't start with you'd be on private jets and with the Yankee brass. And yet your story is really a miraculous story of the saving power of Almighty God. And why don't you tell the audience a little bit of your background and how that started? Well, you know, I'm a New Yorker, 150% New Yorker Brooklyn Boy. There you go. I grew up in Bethesda, Madison, Williamsburg, East New York. Pre-judgerified. Not like today. No, no, no, no. It's called in a city when I was growing up, it's called a ghetto. And you know, come family of seven, four girls, three boys. My mom, my dad, my father was probably probably one of the most evenest men you could find on the face of the earth. He beat my mother every day. He alcoholic. He had drunk every day. Beat my mom. He would beat us. You know, I was watching the movie Offences with Denzel Washington. And the boy that played his son made a statement that ran chilled down my spine. He said to Denzel, you know, when you just walked by and I saw your shadow, the fear will come at me. And it's the second how I felt my father walked by. When he walked by, I saw his shadow alone. Yes, fear will come all over me because he would beat us. My brother and I would take our bureau and put it against our door and put empty Coca-Cola and seven up cans. So if we were sleeping and he could try to get in, those cans would fall and wake us up. And we knew to run behind the door when he came in. We run out. And so, you know, I think like five years old, like saw him beat my mother and I would say, one day I'm going to grow up. I'm a man. I'm going to take care of this dude. I said it when I was five, seven, eight, nine, ten. When I was eleven, that day came, you know, he came in, he was drunk. I got into an argument, he picked up a broom to hit her and I rolled up on him and I hit him and he fell. And he ran out. And for me, I mean, that was the happiest day of my life, man. He was gone. But three days later, my mother came up to me and said, we have a little problem here. Your father's coming back in the one condition, you got to go. Go where? So eleven years old, you love you though. So I'm in the street, you know, I slept in a abandoned building and wake up in the morning because the rats were batting my feet. I've lived in cardboard boxes. I started to different glues, different kabona, drink a cheap wine, smoke a riefer, snort and heroin, skin pop in mainland and heroin and cocaine. And that became my habit. I get clean, go back. I met a girl, my wife Nancy, that we celebrated last week, 55 years married. Congratulations. My greatest testimony of life period is married to this wonderful, beautiful woman. They just loved me unconditionally and never left me. I would have left me a long time ago. Yeah, she stayed. And even after I hooked up in that marriage and had two kids, I still struggled with drugs. And I never went to school, didn't know how to read, didn't know how to write. But if you taught me something, I could do it because I was a stupid. So someone taught me how to run a printing machine. So I'm running a printing machine in a broker's house. There was like 60 employees, black and Hispanics and one day they hired a new supervisor, blonde hair, blue eyed German white boy. And I said, man, I'm going to eat this boy up. So he came up to me, shook my hand. When he shook my hand, he held a little too tight. I didn't like it. He told me I want to tell you that Jesus loved you. And he opened up the Bible, read me a verse. And I said, man, this is like one sick white dude. But he would come every single morning and he'd tell me, well, you know, I want to tell you Jesus loves you, read me a verse. And after a while with him, funny no more to me. So I just grabbed this Bible to me to the glue machine. I glued his Bible. And he came like that the Bible went to the cutter cutter here, cut here, cut here and opened it up, shook my hand, told me Jesus loved me. A long story short, he left. I was strong out. He gave me a number. I called him. He invited me to church. So I went to church with my wife in the morning. And then I just felt this overwhelming sense to go back in the evening. Back in those days, you had church in the morning, you had church in the evening. You remember that pastor? Sure. And so I went by myself in the evening. I said all the way to the back of the church. And I made this deal with God. I said, God, Jesus, whatever your name is, personally, I think you're a hustle. But I ain't got nothing to lose, man. You know, my wife's gonna leave me. I'm strong out. If you could, if you are who people tell me you are, and you could do what people tell me to do, you could tell me, I'm gonna get this habit off my back. No one will ever serve you like me. And I'm gonna go to church. Wow. You know, I started going to church. My pastor wanted me to get baptized. I said, no, because you gotta read this booklet. I can't read. So he got a teacher, a retired teacher at Jellica, Valentin for three years, tutored me, taught me how to read. I took the GD test six times. Wow. I would show up. They'll tell me stuff. I'll answer you back. But you hate it. Yeah. It's a problem, you know, past it and just started this journey with God, you know, and started teaching Sunday schools, started doing prison ministry. I felt a calling in my life, you know, or I'm gonna live back up. My mentor told me I had a calling. I don't know what that was. We may have a calling, you know, they did to me. And so I went on a couple of missions trip. They can have maybe a mission that wasn't it. I started doing prison ministry and then I had an opportunity to go with a young man, you know him, Dave Bottle. Yeah. Dave Bottle was my son at school student. And his wife Rebecca, when they were teaching, they were in junior high and high school. He planted church to the CMA Christian missionary lines. And I went with him, I became an associate pastor and started pastoring in the projects, running basketball leagues. We had over 200 boys, 25 boys, you know, basketball league to play, you had to come to the ocean. If you didn't come, you didn't play. It wasn't a democracy. It was a dictatorship. I ruled. You know, and we sent a lot of boys to a night college. And then I met a gentleman called George McGovern. You know, George, he's an area coordinator for athletes in action, a ministry of former campus committee for Christ now crew. And he said, you know, would you like to come to Yankee Stadium and do a chapel? And I said, the birds fly. So I find myself in Yankee Stadium. And I came the year the Jita came. There's Derek Jeter and there's Paul O'Neill and there's Scott brochures and this is crazy. And he needed an assistant. So I went with athletes in action and you had to raise support. I couldn't raise it. So I became an associate. We should allow me to minister in other places. The following year, Mariana Rivera came, you know, and Mo and I today with brothers, I spent maybe 12, 14 years doing the one-in-one Bible study. And it's $10 million matching. Imagine I used to live in a cardboard box, you know, homeless. And I'm sitting in a $12 million mansion doing a Bible study with the greatest relief picture ever to hit your body. I'm not that smart. They were like five years after we were doing that. Say, hey, Mo, say thank you Jesus. You said, why? I said, bro, you're safe. You say thank you Jesus. Why? It's not been a hard hit. Do you say it? Thank you Jesus. Why? Thank you Jesus. I don't get high no more brother because I was robbed. You blind. You got some good stuff in here, man. You know, nothing in here is cheap. I would have backed up the truck and emptied your house. And then I started, George McGovern turned over the net. The Brooklyn net. Jersey net. Back then, you know, and the eye dot Center and they went to the production center to Brooklyn. I was with them 22 years. I went to two championships with them. Byron Scott from a Laker to the days, one of my my dearest friend, Jason kid, one of my dearest friends. I played golf with him a lot of morning. I let a lot of morning up to the Lord and really walked him through that. Yeah. Yeah. When he had the kidney surgery, you know, I went to visit him and it will let me back up. When he first came to the nets, you know, I came up to him. He was sitting down. I stuck my hand out. I say, no, Mr. Morning, no, my name is Pastor William Chapman here. Welcome to the nets. And he just looked at me and said, hmm, and he was taller than me sitting. And so when a six foot 10, 335 pound black brother go, hmm, that means leave me alone. I came back another time. He said the same thing. I left him alone, but I made friends with his bodyguard. You know, and bodyguards go into some issues and I helped him walk to them. And so when he had the kidney surgery, I woke up in the morning. So God telling me to go visit him. I said, but God brother says, hmm, you know, so I called Bobby Marks. I traveled to Secretary for I know where he was went. And guess who was deciding who went in and who didn't the bodyguard? Well, the setup, man. Yeah. You know, and I went in and we call him so and so had a smile. He said, hey, Pastor, what are you doing? And I got ticked off. I said, I guess there's something about dying. You know, you don't mind seeing the pattern. We talked for a while. And that's a walking away. I said, though, can I ask you a question? And he said, yeah, I said, what are you going to do about Jesus? He said, brother, you don't understand what I've done. So I said, back down the shed, my story would have been given left to Lord. Wow. And for the next, what, 67 months that he stood in that's, I went to his house. And we did a Bible study together. Imagine a little cardboard box. I went to one of the greatest power forwards ever in history of basketball. He writes a book and chapter tenets all about our friendship. Wow. He goes to the Hall of Fame. He invites 99 to be there. And in his acceptance speech, he says, I got there. Pastor will let me to God. It's crazy, man. Wow. You know, they go, he went back to Miami Heat. They went to the championship. He flew me down to be there that day. It's just a crazy journey. You know, the last guy that should be doing this, but I've learned that's the way God operates. The least person you think is the person who will use, you know, and, you know, today, I, you know, I'm the campus pastor of Teen Challenge. You know, I'm working with Madam Addiction. I love doing it. So, and all of this, you're now a two time author. And the name of your first book, which has your testimony in it is, it's a new beginning. And where could people find that if they want to dig a little Amazon, you know, can do. It's also a study book to it also. Okay. And I wrote, you know, the first two books. And you and Moe administered to men, literally around the globe. I mean, your, your story has inspired me. And now we've got a second book on the other side of fear. And with that, I'm going to toss it over to you, Alicia, to walk us through just how impactful this book has been on. You personally, you started reading it. Yeah. Thank you so much, Pastor Billy. You know, what I'll start with first is just something you said about being with Alonzo morning and asking him this question. What are you going to do about Jesus? I've never heard anyone ask it in that way before. What a powerful question. What are you going to do about Jesus? It's what I asked all the athletes at work, you know, I first tried to, to, to, you know, you have to earn the right to speak into their life. Sure. A lot of people think that because you know, Lord, you automatically have the right. No, you know, you don't. You've got to title or something like it. You have to earn that right. You know, and so after we've earned the right and we talk a little bit and maybe play some golf or something, you know, I'll ask them. You know, brother, it's the, it's the question, man. What are you going to do about Jesus? I love that. I love that because it's like a, you can't say, it's not a yes or no question. Yeah. It's a question that demands a response and demands action. That's why I say that. I love it. I want an answer. As I read your book, I felt this sense of urgency from you, the kind of urgency you sense from the Apostle Paul when he's writing his letters, like you have a message to share with the church. Yeah. Yeah. It's, um, how can I put it? Um, it's a little controversial for people. Okay. So I'm trying to find a balance, you know, and but who I am, I am. So I'm going to say what I'm going to say. So I'm, I'm fighting that, you know, and I'm trying to make sure that it's pleading God, you know, that I'm not, I'm not badmouthing anyone that I'm not, you know, trying to hurt anyone, you know, I definitely didn't want to write about being molested at all. Matter of fact, I had totally forgot. I put it back in my brain and the Lord booted back to my brain. If over a year and a half, he had been haunting me, you know, to, to, to write this. And I've been bugging him. You know, in fact, I one time I even told him, you could punish me if you want. I'm not going to write it. You know, and then think about my daughter, you know, being gay, um, didn't want to write it. Um, but I called her, you know, and I, and I said, you know, it's just okay. And she said, I know you're not going to demonize me. And I said, no, I'm not. Um, so, you know, it's been a journey in my mind, my heart, in my spirit. Uh, but once I felt that I had to, then I went through it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, you went for it. And it's really powerful because you laid bare, um, your hurt, your experience. You were really vulnerable. And I think that is the thing that gives other people a chance to bring their hurt to the table, to put it before the Lord. Um, and I just, I thought it was so powerful. Um, I also, I was surprised because knowing your history and knowing what you've done for a living for decades. I thought it was going to be a block about sports and faith. But, um, as I started reading it, I realized, no, this is, this is a book about the church. I try to, I try to stay away from sports all the time because, um, if you get to know me really, really know me, I am one of the most loyal person you will ever find. I am loyal, loyal. And I'm not going to write about athletes. I'm not going to write about their privacy. And I'm not going to write about those things. Before I wrote this book, a publisher wanted to give me $75,000. And he told me, don't write this book, write a sports faith book. And I told him, no matter if I got hired at agent, and I fired her, and I told her this, now what I asked you for. Because they wanted to got some book. I'm not going to do that for no kind of money. You could offer me a million dollars. I won't do it. Because I'm loyal to, to, to the work that God gave me and the privacy of the work God gave me. And these men, you know, I'm used to not going to do it. But then I said it, I needed to write this. Well, so it's a book about the church. It's also a book about resilience. You said forgiveness for just resilience. And you said, resilience is only learned through withstanding pressure without breaking, without hardening your heart. And you said to be resilient is to be found faithful. And I thought, wow, like this is a life's work for you to find your resilience and for you to give that message to your leaders. You know, I love the verse from the possible on Philippians 3, I think it's first 12 or 13, you know, he says, I don't understand it all. There's one thing I do understand. I'm going to put the past behind me. I'm going to move forward with regard to me. Now, that's easier said. They're done. Sure. Okay. Because we're all the crap when it comes. But you got to get to a point on that, allowing the crap to overtake your life and overtake your heart. Dr. Bernard's son. Jamar, yeah. Jamar, excuse me. He said something and it stayed with me. And I mentioned in the book, you know, your heart is not a cemetery. To take these resentments and put them in your heart, now your heart is full of resentment, two zones. There's no room for the heart. So I've learned how to forgive. You know, even my father, father, we married Philippine's girl, father was a merchant's team and so he bought this Philippine girl from Philippine. He beat the crap at her to abuse her. They had a daughter. My step sister Linda. I didn't even know I had a step sister. She, while he was asleep to light up for the lot of him to light him up. He woke up. The state took her away. And he was living in a Spanish Harlem and he was opening up the window. There was too much heat. It had a brain on the resume fell behind the sofa with his face and shoulder on the radiator for three days. So my mother called me and said, he's in the hospital dying. And I'm a pastor now, right? And I said, I really care. I hope we drop dead. My brother Andy calls me up my older brother, which I love. I love my older brother and he convinced me to go. We went to take a floor room 228. And I was looking and there he is. I hadn't seen him maybe 30 some years. My brother and my baby sister. And we put a weekend from we see a family member with a bandition, which means bless me. And to respond is, can you tell me? I'm going to make up bless you and favor you. So he was in a coma with my baby sisters to pop even this show. And he said, can you tell me now tell about me that you must be out of your mind. So I ain't saying Jack. I ain't saying nothing. I wanted to go to hell. And I felt God take to me. Well, you were going to that same help. But you're not because of me. Wow. So I went to he was there. I was here. My brother sister was there. And I said, look, man. What's gone on, gone on, put it behind us. I forgive you. But the issue here, you're going to die. And you need to get right with God before you die. But he fell into a coma again. So I said, I'm going to pray for you. And if you want to receive the Lord, move your hands up and move this hand. And 12 later he died. Wow. So I told my brother and sisters, let's bury him with the dignity he never gave us. And that's that's what we did. You know, I can only control what I do. You know, I'm going to be 74. My parent now one time ever told me to love me now one time. I'm not bitter about it. It was done. It's done. You know, I put it behind you. But I could show you my phone. Every single day I text my daughters and tell them I love them. Every single day I text my two grandchildren and tell them I love them. My wife and I married 75 years and we were just tears. We're like honeymooners. We love each other. We care for each other. See, that I control. You know, that I control. So why should I go into a war with me party about what happened? It happened. I need to move on with what God has for me now and not allow the enemy to imbiter my heart. Right? Because look, I was mad at my father for those 30 years. I was if I ever saw him, I would kill him and I would gladly go to jail. Every day I was bitter. This man was even thinking about me. Who lost? I did. So I've decided I'm not doing that no more. You know, I'm going to whatever comes my way. You know, I'm just not going to allow it to imbiter my heart. And people think that when you come to the light, you know, with me, some of these pastors, they say, Hallelujah. Praise the Lord. Come on to Jesus. Everything's going to be all right. That's a lie. It's just the outright lie. You come to Jesus. Everything's not going to be okay, man. You know, but I mean, I rather go to what I'm going to him then by myself, right? You know what I'm saying? But I can't allow the things that are coming, that are coming my way to rob me of my joy. I can't. I've had a front row seat to that chapter way. I mean, my wife and I have known you and Nancy and Christa and the family for over 20 years, 25 years. Yeah. And, you know, you were at the church where I was pastor with my dad for many of those years. So, yeah. So we, you know, it was, it was up close and I saw different aspects of trouble and difficulty like you just alluded to whether it was in the church world or in your family and outside the church world. You never walked away from the Lord. You never walked away, not only from the Lord, but there are guys who say, well, I didn't walk away from the Lord, but I left the church. You didn't even leave the church to explain that to me. How do you distinctly understand that I can trust Jesus, even though the church, his body is imperfect? I used to live in a cardboard box, man. I used to wake up in the morning and kick rats away, you know, and look what God has done. How in the world can I have a bitter heart? Right, you know, and I'm a big boy. I'm a big boy. What comes comes, you know, and I deal with it knowing that he's with me. When, always, you've done a part-time God, always. Yeah. And, you know, it's like, you know, I remember the story of King your house of that. You know, three armies coming against him. Sure. What did he do? First thing he did, he went to the Lord. The second thing he did when he bought the people, the king of the coming prey and fat, but then it is something that for me is so significant, man. He started remembering all the times God had bailed him out. Yes. And so when things happen, you know, I started remembering of all the time that God had bailed me out, man, he's been there. So why in the world am I going to get him bitter? I know I got a God that got my back. Yes. Always had my back. Yes. Even when I didn't know him, he had my back. I trust the Lord. I do. I honestly do. And if people will come to a place of just, no matter what situation man comes, God with you. Yes. He got you. You know, he got you and I feel every day the presence of God. You know, whenever get hurt in the church, the next Sunday I'm in another church. You know, I have buddies, you know, one of my friends says, stay here until you find what God wants you. Yeah. You know, I stayed there and he's my pastor. I don't know how long I call him by his name. I call him pastor. You know, and then when we find a plan, I'm going to that now. You know, I moved to Jersey. And it's like, I'm looking for church. I've been going to one church, but I decided not to stay there. So we're looking, but until we find I'm going to stay there, you know, because you need to be accountable. Sure. You know, I go to meet with prayer meetings when I can when I'm not speaking because that about me, you know, it's not the Lord. That's awesome. I think that one of the reasons the Lord has given you these incredible opportunities where he has asked you to write this book is because you're willing to say that things that other people are willing to say. There are lots of pastors and lots of leaders talking about joy. There are lots of leaders, lots of pastors talking about forgiveness. And those are really important things that you talk about also. You know, but I think people need to hear that it is a journey to get to those places. A lot of hard stuff happens on the way to those places and your bones and your courageous and you talk about those things. I think that what that's what gives people hope that perhaps joy is within their reach, perhaps forgiveness. Everybody wants to get to the mountain top. No one wants to start in the valley. I've learned very little to nothing on the mountain top. 99.99% of what I've learned I've learned in the valley. Don't duck the valley. The valley is therefore purpose teaches them things. Most of all, God's testing your faithfulness. But the church needs today's transparency. Yes. From their leaders. You know, hey, guys, we're in the prayer meeting. I want you to know that I'm struggling, man. But they're afraid that someone's going to think they're not spiritual enough. Let's just get, you know, I'm not. I'm not spiritual enough, man. You got to trust God. But the journey is difficult times. Sometimes it's very difficult. You know, and if you could get you it, man, you come on a different person. Yes. There's a story you tell in the book that I thought was super powerful about starting the Spanish chapel, right? But not really speaking Spanish all that well. That resonated with me because I like you. I grew up speaking Chinese, learned English in school. And then my Chinese got kind of not so good. And for me, there came a time where I had to use my Chinese in ministry. And I did not feel good about it. I felt silly. I felt like no one's going to understand me. I felt weak. And you said in your book, well, in your saying, yes, and putting your weakness right out there, the Lord really grew up in the doors. Yeah. Yeah. I remember one time of duke, you know, I said something. He said, give the parate a gibberish, you know, give the parate for yourself. You know, what gibberish is that man, you know, and I kind of, you know, got a little colon and robbing the canoe. Yeah, be alone, man, you know, you know, we're not paying him, you know, and from through it, you know, to showing these guys my weakness. But but but being willing to still do it, they saw something and never saw before, you know, and do it. My the honorary very nice started. There was no chapel in Spanish. And today 95% of minor league and major league have chaplain Spanish. And the reason is because 95% of the chapters were white. And they didn't associate with a lot of Hispanic people, you know, but we've changed it. I'm the first Hispanic major league chaplain major league people, you know, and then I went in there and I was talking, I, you know, and more bell me out, you know, and this will be out and then we will laugh, man. And we used to meet once a month in Mariano's house. You've gone to those right. And we would have a big Bible study. I would bring some worship group there. Imagine, I'm running the show. God, he's a little a couple. He's sniffed loop. It's nice pocketbooks. You know, I'm running the show and and and I just felt so empowered by God. You know, that that along us as long as as long as I didn't drift from God. Look, I went to spring training for 28 years for the Yankees. I couldn't stay in the hotel or the play stay, but I never did. Now one time because in the lobby, there was nothing but woman. And I didn't want to get caught up. I would drive after Bible study, maybe 10 o'clock at night and sometimes we had it in the motel. I would drive from Tampa to Ocala, an hour and a half. I would stay with my brother. They get up at six in the morning to drive back, but I was safe. I didn't want to bring death into my own. I didn't want to dishonor my wife. Someone said, man, passively, but you don't have the control to it. No, don't. Yeah, okay. Now what? I don't. You know, I don't think there's a man alive. They could handle that. I think when you've suffered, you learned to count the cost of the decisions that you may make. And you did it, you know, by choosing what hotels that you stayed in, you knew the price that you would have to pay. And you did it with drugs also. There's a part in your book where you talk about the chronic pain that you're suffering and just like making the decision, like, yeah, I could take this drug to make all the pages go away like that. But I know the price. It's been eight years ago. And from that court was called chronic pain syndrome. I got a battery here, have a computer chip attached to my main nerve and grew my phone here. I could control the pain. But it doesn't take all the pain away. And sometimes, especially in the cold, the pain gets so bad. And I'm not a guy that cried very easy, but the pain is so bad that puts me in tears. All I have to do is buy an oxy. I know where to buy them. If I want drugs, I know where to get them. But if I take an oxy, it's going to wake up in my brain, that part that wants to drug again. All right. So, okay, this pain is gone, but now I gave birth to a whole different pain. And so, I rather go through this pain. You know, I've had nine different procedures. None have worked. None. And so, I've come to a place where I've told God, you know, I'm just going to try anything no more. It is what it is. I'll bite the bullet and I'll get you it. You know, last year, I was out sick, zero. For me, it's my way of kicking the devil in the behind, you know, saying, you, you, you don't got me brother, you know. And so, and I tell the guy the teen challenge, you know, I, I'm in pain, but I can't do that. So, let's talk about teen challenge for a second. What happened was that the director of teen challenge to Jersey asked me would I speak at their banquet. And I said, okay, had a big banquet. Then he gave me a check for $875 and I signed it and gave it back to him. I said, I don't take money from rehab centers. I'm an extra addict. I'm going to take money from you guys. You know, whoever takes checks, man, shame on them. And I gave back it back to him. So, then he asked me would I come and speak at a certain, I did. And then he asked me would I consider coming to work there to know you're out of your mind brother. I mean, I live a half way. That's three hour driving. Not going to happen. I went home. I didn't know where to go. I said, hey, when well, he asked me what I consider for job. I said, no, that's crazy, man. I'm driving on this. And then my wife said, well, that's kind of selfish of you. And so, for like two or three days, now is in my brain, you know, I'm really feeling God telling me. So, I went back to him and I said, listen, I'm going to come for three months. After three months, you tell me if you want me to stay. And I'll tell you if I want to stay. And he told me, I want you to stay. And we might feel the crazy stuff. He told me to take care of it. I said, yeah, but don't kill me on the bunch if I take care of it. So, slowly, I just, we just got rid of all the staff. And I started looking for the diamonds and the rough in the residents. And so, I started mentoring the residents and started hiring them. And if you go to King Challenge, New Jersey today, absolutely every single employee is excellent at it from that program. That's amazing. Everyone for the executive mic though. Every employee, the city director, Dave, Dave was there as an alcoholic. He, you know, it's 88 Acre campus. Unless you're a man there, you can leave whenever you want. He decided to leave. He went to the forest, you know, and we went looking for him. We found him on the laying down, making me leave. He came back today. He's the sitting right there. That's awesome. You know, absolutely every single employee in King Challenge, New Jersey, the former better than there. For me, it's probably one of the best ministries I've ever been in. Because one of the things that bothered me in the ministry is that's seen a lot of food of your labor. Okay? In King Challenge, you see that every day, every day. You see guys walking that I have EMT on standby, but he looked at he's going to die any second. And a year later, he's a totally different man on fire for God. I started six months ago. I started every other month, a family worship night, where I invite different pastors to come, worship group, and I bring their families in. This way, when they go home, they go home to the family, they know Lord. And so, you know, I'm the pastor, but really I've been the ghost director for six years. If I were to leave today, I know I did my job. I left it well. I left it well. And so, I love challenges. You know, I like people telling me you can't do that. But if God says, yeah, you can do it. I want you to do it. I'll go for it. Being in Teen Challenge has been a joy for me. It's been a joy to be there. A joy to work with these men. A joy to mentor these guys. He had Vernon, which was a resident that became a director. I married him. You know, it's just a joy to do that. And the God would use me that way. It's just, I love it. I mean, he talked about Robbie Kenoe. You alluded to him before. You lived in Staten Island. The Staten Island Yankee team is on Staten Island. Yeah. And when he was on the minor league contract before he got that big $300 million deal or whatever, he was over the house. Yeah. Well, when, when, when Ganito went, I call him Ganito. Yeah. Thank you for clarifying that for our audience. Robinson Kenoe is Ganito. He called me Theo, which is uncle. Right. Right. So he was a Staten Island Yankee. He was like 17, 18 at all. And a lot of the Hispanic players, they don't have money. You know, their pay is very little. They don't have to pay for their human board. And really, when a lot of those guys get to eat, it's the food from the stadium hot dogs and hamburgers. So I would invite a lot of the Hispanic guys over there to have pork chops and rice and beans and tangocho and all the food that we love. And so Ganito would, he'd be the first one to come. And so he made it. Well, first, when he made it, they get like a petty cash. Okay. When you're in the minor league, you may get $10, you know, $34 million. Maybe you get a couple of hundred, depending on who you are, maybe a couple of thousands. So Luis Soho gave him an envelope and he opened it. He saw like 500 bucks. He said, oh, Luis, you gave him the wrong envelope. And Luis backed him in the face with the Tom. You're in the major leagues now. And so when I went to spring training, when he first made it, I took a roll of paper and I threw it at his feet. And he said, what's that? That's your bill, brother. All the rice and beans you ate in my house, you make the money and I'll probably need to get paid. You know, you know, you know, you know, he's a good kid, you know. Making bad decisions, you know, that's why you got to spend it. But he's really a decent guy. You know, people we didn't ever talk about the good lot of guys you guys do. You know, a lot of them do a lot of good. Alex Rodriguez has given so much trained you boys club. Sure. Just and he's really got a great heart, you know. Every time you had Mariano, Carlos Beltran, come to the event I was doing a fundraising event and they would come. They usually wrote the biggest check in the room. Forget about an appearance. They always wave that, but they were the first one. And I always thought to myself, you know, these guys are making millions and millions of dollars. You never had your hand in their pocket. You never had that level of integrity. The same level integrity that says, I'll drive an hour and a half each way, not to stay at the players hotel because my integrity matters. You know, you can lose that reputation. You can lose that integrity in a moment. A lot of people don't understand that. You know, they get caught up in the fame. My boys, George, the government, I started doing this. He says to me, never make it yours. Okay. Never make it yours. Okay. He said it to a point of annoyance to where I would see him and go across the street because he was saved. And I would already pissed about it. I'm so grateful he did because I was able to walk away from all these teams because it was never mine. Right. It was God's. It was God doing COVID. You really can see them. You had a sky, you know, and that's where I felt, you know, this is it. And then the thing with team challenge came about and I felt God could go there. But I never asked these guys for money, never asking money. In the nets, I would be able to go to one guy to get two tickets for every game. Never went to him because if I want to tickets, I know how to get up. I mean, how many times you come to that game? Yeah. What kind of sister we sit in behind the bench? Did I ask anyone? No. I used to, I used to minister to them. You know, how many? Usheres came to me. They had issues with their kids. Should I help them? I remember going to the games and one of the usheres saying, tap will, you know, and no matter who was from the traveling secretary to keep up and see sweet, you know, blocks is and, and, and VIPs that we're working for the teams. Every one of them respected you. I would like to cause of your integrity in my church. That's the way I saw it. You know, the Yankees stadium, the Ida center, the pedenture center, you know, that was my church, man. And so the ushered the people that dealt with the food, you know, I just minister to them, man. And it wasn't without 50 pound Bible damning them to hell because that crap doesn't work. You know, you have to have to work, man. You know, chances are the only Jesus the people can see the Jesus in you. Yes. You know, it's the Jesus in you. One of the things that was very effective to me was the guy knowing that I was married and how faithful I was to my wife. They knew how faithful I was. I tried with the nets with barren six years. Went to two championships with them and I would get to the hotel, go up to the room and never came down. You know, even one time I came down because I needed to drink and there was nothing to drink and infidure it. I came down and when I was coming back up, there was a play in the elevator with a young lady and that wasn't his wife. Okay. And I go, I know his wife and my wife, PC people don't know the names, see my wife, the chapel with the Yankees for 18 years with the wives and a girlfriend and she did it with the nets. And he looked at me and I looked at him and I nodded my head and I said, next day I said, I'm watching him looking. I know he's looking for me, you know, and so I kind of let him fry a little bit, you know. He's going to nod away, you know. And he's all back to what he got stuck in his head. And he said, man, last night it's all time. I'm not the morality police brother. God didn't tell me he had to monitor your morality. But if you want me to help you work to this, I'll do that. He said, let's do that. I won't mention his name, but today he broadcasts for a major NBA team. He's one of the wealthiest boy you could find. He has several kids in a good marriage. We stay connected all the time. I had the same number for 30 years. I can't change it. I like to change it because people call me with wacky stuff, man. But I can't because I'm going to play to having spoke to him seven years and he fought into an issue who called me. He passed away. He got a minute. Yeah. Yeah. I'm in Atlanta, man. Could you come down here? Yeah, fly me down, brother. I'll be there. Okay. My girl hook it up. I'll fly to Atlanta. I say that because it happened a couple of months ago. I'm there and I spend the day, two days with him talking to it, you know. And tell him you got to connect yourself to a church man. You got to stay comfortable. You know, and I help him do that. It's crazy. They even do that. You know, it's wild, man. Like I said, I've had a front row seat to watch all of it for the last 20 years. Well, so you said, you know, something's just don't work. Being the morality police, it just doesn't work. There's a lot of stuff that churches do that just doesn't work. And you're not afraid to call it out. But yeah, and this is why I felt like your book was about the church. But yeah, you see the beauty. You love the church. And you say in your book, there are more good churches and good pastors by far. But if you leave, don't gossip. If you leave, don't tear somebody up. And you know, don't don't do that. Don't do that. Because if you do that, it's not honoring God. It's not honoring God's way. And it's only going to hurt you. It's not going to hurt them, man. It's going to hurt you. It's going to hurt. You're kind of taking God's hand off you. Yeah. And so that's the last thing I want to do, right? Because I'm a dangerous dude without God's hand on me. You know, the old Willie is constantly trying to come up, constantly trying to come up. And I got to constantly keep him in check. You know, and you see people, people think you come to Lord and you're okay. And I'm okay. And we all hold hands in St. Cumbaya. Okay. We all struggle with something. Some of us more than one like me, more than one. Okay. And we need, we come to Lord with this luggage. And we need to open up that suitcase and start getting rid of some of that stuff. Some of us don't. So we want to walk with God with that stuff. Right? No. You know, when I own my home, I make sure that my lawn was beautiful. And I'm a kind of an anal guy, you know. And you have to go to live in a cardboard box that doesn't mean I'm not clean. You know, and so I like my lawn nice. But now I'm dead and a little down the line will pop up. You know, like to take it out and come back up. And so I googled it, you know, and I said, you got to get to the roof. Right? And there's a little contraption that you buy from 1999. And you bring it down and you twist it and you got the root. See, that's what some Christians have to do. They got to get to the root of that issue. And you got to be in God's word every single day. I have a routine. I get up at four o'clock in the morning every day. Take my shower, my teeth, you know, brothers clean. I go to the kitchen, I get the motello, I go to Puerto Rican. That's what we drink. And I sit down and I have my one year Bible. This is called the 22nd year. I'm doing it. I do my one year Bible. I have my devotion. Oh, no. Back up before I do any of that. I sit on my sofa and I keep quiet for half an hour. When I hear God, I only hear God. I tell God, God, I'm those stupid sometimes. God, man. Because it's a journey, you know, and all you can't be trying to pop up. You gotta learn to keep it up. But you, you gotta be in God's word every day. You know, what it sounds, what 19th of that word I've hidden in my heart. I'm nested against God, you know. So when I, when I'm going to this, you know, verse pops up on me. Sure. My lifesaver. Right. And I think there are a lot of Christians, a pulpit Christians. All they know is what they hear from the pulpit. That's all they know. They have no time in God's word. They have no time quiet with God. They don't do a devotion. They don't come to prayer meeting. They don't come to none of that. All they do, they show up on the Sunday. They give their 10% of the thing they got it. They don't. They're fooling themselves. Because when all hell breaks do, they don't know what to do. You do not get to a God once you get to alone. God put people in your life to help you get there. You know, they just do. You know, one of the things that I've really, really learned, you know, I'm a Puerto Rican, they grew up during the civil rights era. I remember 240s. I remember my mother, there were the Woolworths on Broadway in Graham. And I remember, my mother said, we can't hear. I remember those things. So I grew up with a sense of not liking white people, you know. But in my work with God, some of the people that helped me, the modes have been white folks. You know, like John Urban, that just helped me immensely. He helped me raise money. He, you know, Urban Impact, he gave us millions of dollars. You know, God, like Bob Benson, owned the biggest insurance company. I was then retired now, just coming alongside of me. You know, even allow me to stay in this condo in Florida. You know, just, you know, and I've tried to learn, you know, to be colorblind to, to when it comes to the things of God, you know. So, so it's been a journey in many, many, many ways. Oh, Amen. Well, thank you again, Pastor Wurley. This has been an amazing conversation. I can't wait to share it with our community. I really, really appreciate it. Well, thank you, man. And, you know, for, for the audience, listen, I got this shot to be. It's time to take advantage of it, right? If you want me to come to your church and speak, yes, no. Google my name, Pastor Wurley Alfonso, and I'll have my information. And we'll go from there. Yeah, so we got the new book on the other side of fear by Wurley Alfonso. The forward is by Mariana Rivera. And if they want to find out more information, we'll put it in the link. But it's W Alfonso Ministries. No, W Alfonso. W-A-L-F-O-N-S. No, O-W-D-N-A-O-R. At A-O-O.com. And I will tell you, as somebody that's had Chapamoli preach for me in many an event, many a pulpit. If you want somebody's going to be real and authentic in your pulpit, in your church as a church leader, speaking in your nonprofit or in your ministry center, you want to make sure you get to Chapamoli Alfonso. This has been Faithless Stories. Alicia Lee, CEO and founder, Chapamoli Alfonso. Pass to Adam Durso here. God bless you. Thank you. Thank you for tuning in to the Faithless Stories podcast. We pray this episode gave you the encouragement you needed to continue on your journey. The Faithless Stories podcast is brought to you by Faithless, an online community committed to empowering church leaders, pastors, staff and volunteers. The Faithless Digital Platform offers innovative and practical tools and resources to enhance connection, foster collaboration. And promote growth within the church and ministry space. Remember to subscribe, rate and review our podcast to help reach more listeners like you. Stay tuned for more uplifting tales from the Frontlines of Ministry on the Faithly podcast. Stay bold, stay faithful, and never underestimate the power of your own story.