The Art of Netweaving - Kay Hiramine

I came home and I went to the Buddha's shrine at my house and I prayed over it. I just made a simple declaration. I said, Buddha, I don't serve you anymore. I served Jesus and then my mom and dad were sleeping in the bed. I just set a sign of prayer and then I said, Lord, I just commit them to your hands and I pray that they would know you like I know you now and then I went to bed. Next morning it came in, it was early and my dad looked at me without even saying anything and he said, you became a Christian last night. Welcome to Faithly Stories, the podcast that brings you inspiring tales from conversations with church leaders as they navigate the peaks and valleys of their faith journeys through their ministry work and everyday life. Join us as we delve into their challenges, moments of encouragement and answered prayers. The Faithly Stories podcast is brought to you by Faithly, an online community committed to empowering church leaders, pastors, staff and volunteers. Learn more at Faithly.co. Get ready to be uplifted and inspired as we unveil the heart of faith through stories from the front lines of ministry on the Faithly Stories podcast. Okay, welcome to Faithly Stories. It is such a pleasure to have you here with us today. You are a netweaver of relationships and you really sit at the intersection of relationships and leadership and capital and faith. You've worked in corporate, you've planted two churches, you've worked at investment firms, you still at work at investment firms. I think that just in saying all that, I'm starting to develop an idea of what a netweaver might be. But let's start. It's a person that can't hold a job. That's basically Alicia. Or a person that has so much to offer, they need more than one job. But maybe we can start from the beginning, K, and talk a little bit about what your faith journey has been like. How it started and led you to some of these different jobs? Of course, no problem. We should thank you so much for having me on with Faithly. I just upgraded my work and your passion and your vision to actually do this. It's a long time in coming. And so on the way you've constructed it and built it and engineered it, you know, praise God that God's using you through this. So a little bit about my background. My name is K. K. Domine. I'm Japanese American. I was born in California and my parents integrated over from Japan in 1956 and I was born in the United States in California. So I grew up in a Buddhist home. And so for me, really conditionally, didn't know anything about God, was not really aware of God. I saw churches around, but I never went into one because we had a little Buddhist shrine at our house and we would pray to it three times a day and we would burn incense and put through it on there as a sacrifice. I mean, we were doing ancestral worships and we had pictures of our family members there. And so for me, my faith journey is pretty wild. So outwardly, like most typical Asian Americans not to generalize, but we're kind of super overachievers. We're very education is really an idol in Asian homes. So we really push education as the way to be successful or image or face, you know, as Asian cultures are mostly honor shame cultures versus Western is more guilt right and wrong. So it's got to look good, the family's got to look good and that's done through the expression typically through education and higher education and such. So outwardly, I was a very successful student, Alicia, and you know, 4.0, AP honors, all that stuff. And yet inside, I was just dying, you know, an extra clerk was checking all the boxes because I was heading off to Ivy Leagues or whatever academies I was looking at as well. But inwardly, I was just dying. And so I started reading in my junior year in high school, Camus, Nietzsche, you know, really some me, me holistic writings, typically. And if you go to the logical progression of Nealism, it's essentially, it leads to why exists, why even live. And so man, I was going down that dark road of, you know, just going now, what is my purpose in my life? And even at 17, I was questioning that. But through doing the counter that I had, which is another, that's another, probably another podcast, I came to Christ pretty radically at an event in, as actually a secular event for student leaders. This would be 1980. So to a little bit of date, yeah, I was, I'm, I'm 60 years old. So, so this was in 1980, August 1, 1980, 16 years, young K. Oh, thank you, thank you. And so came off that mountain top experience with an encounter with the Lord. And I started searching. I was like the person looking for the pearl of great price. I knew it was out there. And man, I, I wanted to find it, and I wanted to find Jesus. So within about five or six months, I was able to come into a relationship with the Lord, excuse me. And, and my father, so I put it progression, so I started attending Bible studies. And then my father started saying, I'd get more serious because I was going to church. And he says, finally, he said to me one Saturday, he goes, you know, cave, you get really serious about this Christian thing, you know, we're Buddhist. That's who our family is. That's our identity. And if, if you become a Christian who's going to pray to me when I die, and sister worship, and you're the only male, so that's even more important, because we're not going to give it to her, our daughters, to the cold progression there. And I just was like, yeah, you're right, you know, I'm not going to, I'm not going to make that sacrifice because he would have threatened to kick me out of the house. I had to change my last name, so there's a total shame thing on me. That was Saturday, Sunday I go to service, and I walk in the service. And by then I become really good friends with my youth, my youth pastor, who I'd been going to Bible studies with and everything. And I wanted to tell him what my dad said and that I could not come back to church or Bible studies and things like that. And so my pastor at the time, David came walking up after worship and he goes, hey, hey, how you doing? Give him a big hug. And hey, we're going to have lunch. I said, well, you know, actually, I need to talk to you about something pretty serious. My dad laid on me and he goes, okay, but before you say that, I want to share you with you with the Lord who's impressing upon me during service, during worship, okay, what is it? And he goes, okay, the Lord impressed upon me to give you a scripture, which says, who is whoever gives a mother, father, brother, field and my name for the sake of the gospel receive a hundredfold? That's all I got. I was like, oh, my gosh, seriously, I said, and I told him, I said, David, this is my dad said, so I shared with him, you should start crying. Hugging and said, well, you have a decision you need to make. And so I'll be praying for him. So for that whole next week, I struggled and really wrestled with the Lord ran away from him. I started drinking again, all this stuff, party that whole week because I just was avoiding to make a decision, but Friday rolled around and I was ready. So I went in for prayer with my, I went down to my pastor's house and he always had it open to his wild times, right? So get, get, he lived in the quote, wrong part of town. He lived, he was a bivocational pastor and so he was a mechanic as well as a pastor of this church that was just starting a church plant. And his front door was always open. He had homeless people saying with him, you know, I'm a couch, you know. And he had a back room though that where people would go in there and I was like, turn avoid the back room because everybody goes in there, it comes out, wouldn't party with me anymore. They weren't any fun, I was quite the hellian, younger days, but I went into the room and for the next few hours, he led me to the Lord and prayed for me. I came home and I went to the Buddha shrine at my house and I prayed over and I just made a simple declaration. I said, Buddha, I don't serve you anymore. I served Jesus. And then my mom and dad were sleeping in the bed and I just set a sign of prayer over and then I said, Lord, I just commit them to your hands and I pray that they would to know you like I know you now and then I went to bed. Next morning I came in, it was early and my dad looked at me without even saying anything Alicia and said, you became a Christian last night and I was shocked because I didn't say anything. And I said, how do you know he goes, I tell what happened. And you know, the Bible says deep speaks to deep, nothing's hidden, right? And so I was like shocked and I was, but it's not surprised because I just felt totally different. I had a joy and I've opened my heart now and a peace which is so important. He escalated his anger, get a lot of anger issues, he was alcoholic, you know, very abusive in many ways to my mom and my sister's and I. So the very dysfunction at home, but he wasn't drunk that morning. He was abused, but he got escalated and anger over two and a half hours and finally threatened to kill me with a knife and kick me out of the house. And David had to pick me up this car and so stayed with him for a while until we reconciled enough where I could come back home. But my father and I didn't talk for a long time and he'd go through my mom, you know, or he'd say very gruff things to me. Then I went off to call it. Okay. So that's kind of my wife, journey of Jesus in a nutshell. So in college, college was really formative and for me in the very foundation of my walk with Jesus. And some two books other than the word, obviously the Bible, two books that really were foundation on my walk as a leader and a father of Jesus was the cost of discipleship and life together written by Dietrich Badhofer. And it was such a radical experience in this campus group that we actually even bought homes as students near the campus. We bought cars so that people could use them collectively so people who couldn't have transport. We did street ministry and mercy ministries to the homeless in the area. And even racially, we were going across, you know, this pretty white school to be frank. And as a multi ethnic expression of who Jesus is, we were out there in the community, which was largely Hispanic there in Oxfowl College, which is in Hegel, California. From there, I really wanted to go into ministry and I felt like the Lord called me in ministry and I just was like, I'm talking to my parents, my elders of my church. At that time, I was going to Glendo Presbyterian Church in Glendo. And I asked my elders, I said, hey, I really sense a call to ministry. Can you process this with me as my elders? And the three of them sat me down and they said, hey, okay, you know, there's obviously a call of leadership on your life, but there's a lot of pastors that don't really know what real life is about. I said, what do you mean by that? They go, they go from Bible college and then they go to seminary and then they get a call to a church, but they've never worked a day in their life in a secular world. And I was like, oh, they said, would you commit to five years in the secular world? And then we will deputize you to go to seminary from here. I said, five years, I'm submitted to leadership. These guys were very wise and and godly men. And I just said, great. One guy was getting George Barna. We started part of this church was amazing. Another one was the guy named Bill Greg III who had gospel light publications, regal books. And then the third one was a friend of my name, Barof Winter, who's a executive producer in Hollywood, did all the X-Men and all kind of stuff. So they were only about four five years older, but I really respected them. So I went and started looking for a job and my first job was proctor and gamble, little mom and pop company since nanny and I was in sales with them and then and then met my wife. They wanted me to move since nanny. I was willing to go and live in since nanny, plus I don't really like skyline chili, which is what they're famous for in this nanny. And I don't like the reds because I'm a dodgers guy. And so worked for a global banker commercial real estate for two years and then at the end of the five years, just as promised by my elders, I went to fuller seminary. So fuller seminary is a theological seminary and I was in the school of real missions in pastina. I hope I'm not boring on this until they can tell you that I'm just it's taking all myself control not to break in with a million questions. And I'm curious in your five years working in the secular world, working in corporate, were you were you enjoying it or were you like sort of counting down the clock? No, anxious to go to ministry anxious to get started. No, at first, yeah, I mean, remember 21 years old, getting sucked into this corporate American thing, great salary, we're in suits, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, it was very expected in that standpoint of the world. However, because of my foundation at my college years, we really lived a life of simplicity. So during those times, I actually lived with four other people and I supported them completely in their ministry. And I basically, I paid for the the apartment, there's a two bedrooms, so we all lived together. And so I financially supported them as well as basically buying groceries and stuff too, as well as I basically care of these folks here, part time folks, they also had jobs, but but I was kind of a lion's share of the finances and that's how I saw my, we lived in community life together, right? And so I was still very committed in those years to do that, at least for the first year, year and a half. And that really also made me become and started awareness of that there's no difference between the sacred and secular that all people are called in ministry, right? Whether you're a full-time worker, as a pastor or missionary, when you're a business, you can be a minister of the gospel that you're sharing Jesus by the way you do your work. So that faith and work is really, I love this, you know, expression that's happening in the church. All right. Now, this is super important. So back in the day, remember, this is 80s, right, 87, 88. So for me, I was coming in, there was no nomenclatures, no language around faith at work, you know? And this is so exciting to see how that's developed. Cool. Cool. Wow. I'm looking behind your shoulder, by the way, to see if there's like seven other families living with you, because even from like the beginning of your story, you know, talking about like the pastor at the church plan where you went, like the doors were open, right, to hearing about how you lived in your year's incorporate, like with others, right, supporting them, supporting one another. I can't help but think of the acts church. And I have a feeling that that sort of theme just runs through your life and through your ministry. Yeah. Yeah. And that's one of the most important decisions that you can make in your life is your spouse. Mm. And you want that spouse and that partner to run at the same speed and intensity with you in your walk with Jesus. Otherwise, you're either dragging them into something they don't call to or they're running ahead of you that you're trying to keep up with. And so really praying that God will bring that equilibrium together is super important. And so my wife, Julie, we married 35 years. We have five daughters, two son-in-law's and our first grandbaby girl. But Julie, what I was so attracted to Julie about was her passion for Jesus and to be open to whatever the Lord has. I'm a high risk taker for me. And so that's kind of my personality type. We should. So I was looking for a woman that I could really walk with, run with and really do ministry with whether it's in a secular world, business or in a full-time ministry. I mean, she's more pastoral than I am. But when people come to me for pastoral counseling, I'm like, okay, let's take it across, let's pray about it. Let's do it across. Don't pick it up. Leave it there. And if they come back again, I go, you're an idiot. What the heck's going on? Very little mercy gift. Now my wife though, if you set up a point with her, she'll be like, well, let's read this book together and have seven sessions to talk through it and pray to her. I'll be like, so I am not that kind of person, that's historically, she's much more pastoral than I am. Anyway. So you went to seminary, finally, for five years. What was that like for you? It was awesome. I really enjoyed seminary because after working 80 hours a week, basically in business, and someone successful from the world's eyes. But inwardly, I was really yearning to grow in my discipline, theologically as well as physiologically and really doing church planting. That's what I really felt like. Whether it was overseas or not didn't really matter, Julie and I really felt a call to do that. We didn't, back then, church planting was kind of the buzz word, but it could also mean missions as well. So we went to the school of admissions now called Intercultural Studies at Fuller Theological Seminary in Pasadena. And at that time, I needed work. So I became a teaching assistant for a professor there in Dr. C. Peter Wagner, which was a church growth professor at that time, and then later wrote a number of books on prayer and spiritual warfare and mobilized what was called the 1040 window, physiologically, just prayer for the 1040 window for the underage people groups across the world. So I was his TA, which was super exciting time. Pasadena during those 90s, early 90s was such a vibrant place for missions and underage people groups. U.S. Center for World Missions with Ralph Winner, Joshua Project was up there doing analysis and research on unreached people groups and trying to find out where they are. We had the Center for Buddhist Outreach. I mean, there was a number of things, Muslim, on and on, there was a vibrancy in them. Of course, Fuller, you would have people from all over the world coming who were leaders being primed to take over their movement, search for nominations back home. So yeah, it was a, it was just incredible, incredible time of vibrancy and relationships and such. But at that time, Julie and I actually started a Bible study. Like we were like, okay, we're coming out of the velocity, you start a Bible study, right? So we started a Bible study, but we're so interesting. Everybody we invited didn't come, but they told someone else to come. And a lot of, we're not even saying, which was awesome, we were like, oh great, you know, we can leave them to the Lord, you know. And by the end of about, I'd say four or five months into it, we had over 80, 90 people showing up, 100 people showing up in our two-bedroom apartment on the third floor in Pasadena, South Pasadena. Where did everybody sit? On the balcony, on the floors, we actually had people sitting in the stairwell going up and down and I'd have to share the message with one foot inside the door and also one foot in the stairwell. And other neighbors would open their doors. They're elderly people and they loved it that they could listen to these young people singing and I'd share a message. So if we had worship for a few songs, I'd share about 15 minutes because that's about all I had. And then, and then I'd give an invitation because you always give an invitation, right? And then people started saying, I was like, oh my gosh, this is incredible. And then, so we baptized them. And then we'd eat together. And it was hilarious, faithfully. So, no faith, it was delicious. So it was an amazing time in that God was moving during that time and wildlife, Julie's life. And we started plugging them into small groups, right? That's what you do. You know, R.C. put them into small groups and you put the women in them with that women and the men with the men. And we just separated 30, 40 people in these small groups and multiple small groups. So it got to the point where I had asked my professor if I could please, please, please, get an extension. And he goes, well, Casey never asked that. He's the dean at the time. Dean Pearson. And he goes, okay, why are you why are you asking about an extension? I said, well, I got this Bible study and it's really busy. And he goes, well, tell me what this Bible says. I shared with them. And he goes, well, K, do you take an offering? I go, no, I don't take an offering. I'm going to take an offering. It's a Bible study. And he goes, you've planted a church. I said, no, I didn't want a church. He goes, yes, you did. He goes, you planted a church. He goes, how many people are you getting saved? I said, well, it's old. Let me know 80 people. And he's like, hey, he goes, what did you come to for? I said, well, I'm going to be a church plier. You could, okay, you don't need to be here anymore. Because you need to, this is the dean of, there's like, you know, they said, well, Dean, he goes, he says, you should just leave and just keep at your church. I said, I can't do that. I'm Asian. We don't quit at school. He starts laughing. He goes, okay, that's an idolatry. But he goes, he goes, he goes, hey, you need, you, you have planted a church. And if you don't believe that you're in denial, and there's a great professor over at the School of Psychology, where we're going to send you Simeon Tan, and he goes, he's going to help you walk through this. But first, we're going to get you legal. So he literally called up a lawyer in Pasadena, and he goes, yeah, yeah, Steve, hey, I'm sending the young man over and his wife. They're going to come over and they're planning a church in South Pasadena area, and you need to help them get organized. And he actually helped pay for some of the costs of the, yeah, it was an incredible time. God's provision and just, just affirmation and confirmation in that. Well, that church is called Vision Christian Fellowship, which is still going. In Pasadena, California, they just thought of building across from Pasadena City College. They're in Colorado Boulevard. And my friends that we planted the church with, so to speak, they are now the senior pastors and lead that for the last 30 plus years, because we left California in 95 with the ministry that we were with at that time. So I did ministry staff leave. Well, you have a question or something like that. I'm sorry. Well, no, I'm just going. I'm like silently marveling here and reflecting on what you said. You went to Fuller to learn how to church plant, and you planted a church and didn't realize it. They're practicing it. It's just kind of amazing. Well, it's a sovereignty of God. I mean, really, I mean, I tell people, you know, if, you know, I shouldn't be surprised because if God can use me, you know, he's, you know, bail him stonkey. So I mean, so I'm not quite sure he's surprised. But I did keep going to taking a course there. And it was still the TA for Peter Wagner, Dr. Wagner. And then he invited me to be part of this ministry. And so his executive director Fernandez moved to Colorado Springs, helped raise $10 million for the world prayer center. I'll name Colorado Springs on the new wife church property in Colorado. And was with him from 92 to 99. And then after that, I've done a number of things. I'll go highlights here because I know we're going, sorry about that long story that, but I thought it'd be helpful for those listening. So after that, I had a transition time, which is always the painful time I left the ministry. And I didn't know what I was going to do. So I was really like searching and trying to figure it all out. So that was a two year timeframe of just really seeking the Lord. And I think God used that time to really kill me of a lot of pride and arrogance that had developed over being really successful in business and in ministry. And in the ministry, we grew by leaps and bounds into the millions of dollars a year, doing conferences for 10,000 people, you know, hanging out in the green room with all these Christian celebrities and cutting deals with them and publishing their books. And I mean, I did a number of things like that. And that's got really heady. And I'd say spiritual pride is like bad body odor. Everybody else smells it except you. And I had it pretty bad, Lisa. Yeah. And so God, I think really need to use some soul surgery in my life. And I needed to come to Lord and die to self in those areas. And after that, I started a consulting company that worked with the US government in different areas like how to engage the church in private sector, nonprofit and businesses, small businesses and large business we worked with large business like federal express, Walmart, Citibank, Delta Airlines and such. How do they work with the US government during a disaster? This was in 2001. And so my team, I'm not smart enough. So is my team that I brought together in my company, we wrote the white papers for that, which would then she became what's called the private sector integration office, which later evolved to the faith-based community initiatives office. So that's kind of the genesis of some of that, how we were able to play a small part in in helping the church be able to engage with the government in those areas. So that was my for profit company. And then I had a nonprofit that we started because of our conviction to help the poor out of James 127. So true religion undefiled before the father is ministering to widows and orphans in their distress and remaining unstained from the world. And James 127 was the guiding thing for our humanitarian organization, which was secular. It wasn't it was an faith-based organization that we want to work in the world, not become of it, but in it. And we did disaster response and sustainable development and we had an impact fund about a million dollars a year in about 80 nations. And we raised up about 880 small Indigenous local disaster response agencies to build their capacity to work with UN agencies during a disaster. So that was super exciting. We started over I think about 20,000, 25,000 businesses, micro businesses. And we funded a ton of things like that. That was my humanitarian world. And then I had my for profit world that like I said, I worked for the US government and also worked for corporations as well. After that, that lasted 2012. And then from since then, I've been doing a lot of different consulting at pretty high levels with organizations at not high level, because meaning with a strategic level with CEO to corporations on international expansion, because I had a lot of connections overseas, specifically in Asia in particular. I'm pretty strong. But I know pretty much folks everywhere through my long life that I've had that does give me. And then one thing that's been really interesting in my life has been just different diversity of things that I've been involved in. So everything from non-profits to faith-based groups to more profit companies, but big and small to large corporations, US governments. I have a lot of experience in those different areas of sectors. And it's giving me a great preview into how they operate and look. And I just I'm very curious person. I'd love learning about cultures, love people, see them, oh God, it's all about relationships. And so for me, just learning into context of culture is really super important, whether it's a corporate culture or whether it's ministry. It's super important for that. And one big chunk of my life that I've been a lot of time that God's really been working on me is a whole area of generosity. So I work for a organization called Generous Giving, which basically helps people in their areas of generosity, people of high capacity. So we've we've administered to over 50, 60,000 high network individuals across the United States that have gone through a study that we do called the journey of generosity. You can look it up. It's super cool. It's only like one night long. And it really helps some degree capture the joy. Because you know, folks have means people with wealth, you know, people in churches that have finances, they're often hit up all the time. They feel like an ATM machine. And the Bible says that you're, you're a full giver, but it's hard. And it happens over and over again. You know that all you're being hit up for you're known for is a person's going to cut a check. And and that's just for sure to the soul for them. And and yet because Cedar conflicted, they believe that God wants them to be joyful. But yet they know that called create wealth. But yet they feel like they're being used or manipulated by it. And so there's a inner conflict. But this study Jenner's giving really does come alongside people to say, you know, you can actually be joyful. And these are some sort of inspirational stories that you can ask the Holy Spirit to speak to you of what an area your life that needs to not only die to, but also aspire to in light of how God's created you to be with you and your family. And there's a sister minister called generosity path, which I also worked for four years with, which mobilizes people of high networks and stuff all over the world. And I think they're in over 16 nations now, but I helped open up all of Asia and raised up local workers there to help carry the warfare. So Korea, Japan, Indonesia, Singapore, Cambodia, Vietnam, Australia, New Zealand, a few other countries. I helped open up there. So yeah, so generous generosity is a big deal for me. Wow. So I can't help but be struck by how you weave things together or how the Lord uses you to weave things together. Chris crossing geographies, Chris crossing, you know, industry, faith, nonprofit. Was it those experiences that led you to say, hey, I'm a, I'm a netweaver? Like how did that come about? Because when someone looks for you online, that's what they find. They find K, netweaver of relationships. Yeah. I believe God calls everybody to relationships. We were created to live in community, not only with a spouse, Adam and Eve, with God in the garden, obviously church with God and then Adam and Eve and your spouse, your family, your community, your church, and then so forth. So we're all created to live within community and those that are feeling isolated, I just want to encourage you that God can help you through that time of isolation. You see like you're being isolated and it really is a life in the devil, bluntly, to isolate and marginalize you because he likes picking off people one by one. But when you come together, it says one will put a thousand two put 10,000. So I want to encourage someone out there right now that's fairly isolated and marginalized or feeling very alone to step out by faith, ask God to give you even the courage to call someone and just get together with them and pray together. Yeah. Okay. Netweaving. So netweaving for me is all about relationships. The greatest gift you can give a friend is a friend. And I just feel that in sense the word wanted to rebuild his kingdom through relationships rather than hierarchy and structures per se. You need structuring the systems and processes. I get it. I ran a change management company for four years. So I understand change after that. So a little bit, at least at other part of people tell me the clip notes. But all it's to say is God has called us to be a relationship. I'm naturally very curious about people that I shared earlier. So I lean into it. But it's also there's a level of expectancy that God is going to surprise me with something that I'm going to be really joyful about and excited about. Because each person has a story. And that story is not just their story to share, but it's also a story for me to participate in. How can I come alongside a person in their journey and their story? We're all on journeys. We're all sojourners, it says in 5-1. And sometimes there's times when God brings us together in the intersection of relationship built to a sacred trust. I call it that there's something just spiritually magical happens. You know, not magical in a bad sense, but it's almost mystical. When you can help and serve people and not expect anything in return. I say that networking is very transactional. But net weaving is transformational. Not only for that person, but also for yourself. And so I love connecting and making those relationships happen. And the genesis of the term. We just break in and say that like since the time that you and I were introduced, I've gotten an email from you once a week, once every other week saying, hey, Alicia, meet this person. Alicia, talk to this person. You two have to get to know each other. So you really, I mean, you really walk what you talk. I just wanted to put that out there. Thanks. Yeah, I love doing that, especially for friends. But I do it for everybody. I mean, I'm kind of known as the net weave or a relationship. But I don't think it's a unique call or gift case for just me. I believe we all have deferred levels in net weaving. And really ultimate comes down to trust. So often people build silos of relationships where they're like, oh, they're my relationships, especially when it comes around money or donors or people who give, I see that a lot. And I tell them, you know, you're living in a lack mentality. God calls it to be in an abundance mentality in that God owns everything. And even as you give away, he replenishes and even gives you more to give away. So how much more so, which is the most valuable in the world is relationships. It's not gold. It's not silver. It's not fiat money. It's not all that other stuff that you call a saddle in this world, but it's relationship. I was raised, I say, the only thing that's going to get you in heaven is it's not what you know, it's who you know. I mean, we're not going to talk about the cars we had or the extra house we had or the boat we had. We're going to talk about, man, I met this awesome individual name, Lisa Lee, you know, she gives this amazing project called Faithfully to help so many pastures and full-time workers for person their lives. That's cool. You know, oh, by the way, that's the person over there at the bank would be table. And that's the other person over there. And all those people that were impacted by that person because they found purpose in their life with Jesus, 10,000 people in their community came to know Lord because of that person. This faithfully helped them find that vocation of that placing. You know, it's just those kinds of things. When I looked at Faithfully, I was really interested in that in some ways, as elements digitizing the whole aspect of note weaving, right? It's a powerful for that. Yeah. In some ways, I don't want to project that. No way. You were a hundred percent spot on. It doesn't replace note weaving. It's meant to help enhance it, to take all the note weaving that you've been practicing and that you tell others to do and to amplify it, even just a little bit. Yeah. Yeah. So I was sitting with a friend of my name, Ken Coleman. I don't know if anybody out there listens to Dave Ramsey shows and stuff, financial plan. He's one of their tops, you know, whatever faces or, you know, Jesus don't show and all that. He's also in Fox News business commentator. He's a contributor. Very interesting. Become a really good friend of mine. And he sat me down for the first time. He had heard about me moving into Franklin, Tennessee. I live in middle Tennessee now to sell the Nashville. And he heard about me about five people. And he said, so we finally sat down and he sits me down and he's just very much of a provocateur, very smart when it comes to interviewing. He's interviewed over like 10, 15,000 leaders, right? So he's super sharp and he goes, describe one word that would describe you. And I said, I'm a net beaver. Well, I've never seen anybody that fast with, I'll explain that. And I said, well, have you ever seen a middle ages Renaissance tapestry? You know, it was wall paintings. Have you seen them those released for their beautiful right? Yeah. And I said, have you ever seen a back of one? Have you seen the back of one? I think so. Yeah. It's a, this is a hot mess. I mean, he goes has no reflection on the front. In fact, in some of these hangings, they have a piece of wood because the two strands didn't connect. It's so funny. I just said, I said, I'm a net beaver. I'm behind the scenes. I net weave different people's stories, which is these beautiful threats. And I net weave them together, connect them. And it becomes a tapestry of life, which is the story of Jesus. And he goes, oh my gosh, okay, that's a book. And what's weird about it is the biggest three months, I've heard from five different people that I was supposed to write a book. I'm like, oh, no, I don't got anything to share again. He goes, okay, you're a net beaver because your stories are just, you know, on and on and on about God. And I call myself a force gun for relationships. I just stumble into it. And it just happens. And, uh, but these speakers, I believe that God sees my heart and that I just want to make that happen and make those connections happen. That really adds value to people's lives. So they can walk with the word, if they don't know God, help them along their journey. No. Um, anyway, all that says that's why I'm in the process of writing it now. So I'm writing this book called net weaving and just really praying that it'll be a blessing to folks. Um, so let's talk a little bit about the book. I know you're still writing it. But is it give me a sense of what you're hoping to achieve with the book? Are you hoping to help people to learn some of the fundamentals of net weaving? If it doesn't come as naturally to them as it does to you. Yeah, absolutely. Because some people say, well, K, you're such an expert. That's easy for you. You know, relationships, like I said, from the very beginning, God created us all to be a relationship. And whether it's five people or 500 or 5,000 or like I had 14,000 people on my iPhone, right? It's not a lot of people. They have to buy a different drive to store all those contacts. Just glitch a few times for sure. Like I'll spool it up. It takes forever to look at thinking about it all. Oh my gosh. However that works. Um, so yeah, the book will be talking about some stories to inspire people to give them a vision because we're all made unique, you know, and and so God's going to work in and through some different ways. And I break it up into different contexts of the how, basically the why, the what and the how. You know, how does it work? What is that we've been in the why of why we're called? You'd be it. Now the book itself is or a quote, secular audience. But then I'll probably write another one that's more for a quote, Christian audience, ever you want to phrase it with Christian, these language, because I want it to be as broad as possible from from an outreach standpoint. Because I want to change the nomenclature, the culture of networking. Meeting some of the comes so transactional. It feels so contrived. It seems so narcissistic. And and I believe that you've potentially this book, I can help contribute to inspire people to be so less transactional and much more intentional and authentic. And we're caring. Um, and we're genuine in relationships and not expect anything out of it. That's really the key in some aspects. So yeah, it's thoughtful with sort of how to just how to open up a conversation, but it really starts from the inside out. So you have to ask God to really transform your heart because he's the only one that can't, the Holy Spirit, the only thing that can transform your heart to sincerely love people well, to love your neighbor, care for them, to be in relationship with them. Uh, and so, you know, whether it's the person at the front desk, whether it's the person at a restaurant as your waiters or a flight attendant, I mean, I'm just curious. I just, I just like to say to me, so how are you doing? You know, how do you like your job? You know, or are you, are you based out of L.A. or you based out of New York? Where you, it's amazing when you generally care or my wife has a great way of she, whenever she sees a gal with nails, she's like, oh, I love nails. Tell me about your nails. And why'd you pick that color? What's your name? Oh, I love your name. What does your name mean? You know, especially if you're, they're ethnic, right? You know, they're like, you know, oh, that's a beautiful name in the Ethiopian. What does that mean? You know, so, so you just, there's different ways, but also, people can tell when you're not being sincere, right? And so you have to allow God to transfer your art to have that sincerity and genuine this and authenticity desire to know them. So that's, it's a taste of the book, but yeah. Um, when, when are you planning to publish it? So we'll finish writing, uh, June. I'm doing a chapter a month, just going at it. And, um, I don't know when I'm going to publish it. So I'm talking to different publishers and, you know, talking with other ways to get it out there. What was really surprising to Alicia is really from millennials and younger. So many of them have shared, when I got shared stories about the book, you know, we're hanging out and they'll be like, hey, because, you know, we don't know how to do that. We're like this, you know, I'm like, what do you mean this? They go, you know, texting. I was like, oh, my gosh. And we don't know how to have a natural conversation. We've never been modeled that well for us. And they said, this book could really help bless us, just sort of figure out how to have that relationship and then hit and part of it. Some of the guys that I've talked to said, you know, even like asking girl out, it's kind of, we don't know how to do that. You know, we're like texting them or we'll start following them and being kind of creepy and like, you know, and see if they're going out with anybody and then maybe I'll send a note, you know, I'm like, it's a sad stuff or coffee. Yeah. Well, I don't like get there. Well, I want to ask her her name, introduce yourself. And literally, I've guys like, and Gals just literally writing down notes. I'm like, a lot of the way by it. But realization is that there's a COVID, other things and just our cultures in the last 20s, 30 years. And really, it's responsible to us older folks that haven't really spent the time to really lift up train, quip, model, well relationships. Because in my generation, it's all transactional. It's all about networking, building the business, doing more ministry, getting the right speaking gigs, whatever it is, your space is at. And it's rarely about finding out how are you really doing? How's life now? Anyway. Well, I think what you said about, well, it really starts with the the Lord working on your heart and how you see people and how you want to treat them. I really think that is the core. And then from there, you know, what are the conversations you can have? What are the steps you can take to begin net weaving and to begin blessing others and to be blessed in return? Yeah. Well, so I'll give it a little little key here that wrote in the book. One is I the sort of when you when you first meet a person, you don't know how to where to start, right? And so one would be where you're from. You know, that's a good one. And we about your family. Yeah. You know, what's your future hopes and desires? When you start talking about that, you've hit Peter. I mean, it is you've built a trust with that person. And so when you meet someone for the first time, it's super fun to see how God unfolds story. How they begin to open up. And that's a sacred trust. I call it. And you don't violate that. You don't share about what you start with others. You keep it in prayer. You really start to treasure people's stories and doing it well. So yeah, that's kind of the from family, but also food. This kind of a fun one. You know, when you meet someone, so what kind of food do you like? Or if they're of another culture, you say, because I travel a lot overseas, but also you're in the US. I mean, in Nashville, you have 140 languages spoken, right? I mean, Nashville, Tennessee, right? I ask them, so what's your favorite food? Would you grow up with? And you know what, that he boaks so much memory and emotion and fun and for reality? What do you do for fun? You know, and that's another question. But when you talk about that, then they talk about their family and what that meant and what they ate together. My favorite food is this because my mom used to make this and can't get it right now. And you know, it just you start bonding and start connecting it's such a deeper level and it's a progression over time, right? So, you know, relationships meet, you know, runs at the speed of trust. So it's not just to be built over time. This can't be truncated or accelerated unless God's in it. And I've seen conversations where the trust is like, damn, right away because something happened because in the Bible, but you know, it says deep speaks deep says in the Bible. There's nothing hidden in the spirit. So sometimes the Lord, because of his timing, not our timing, wants us to connect with someone to come alongside of them at a deep level. Fast. So I've seen that happen in my life. And I think it can happen for anybody. I've seen it happen for people through a quote introverted, I've seen it. I have a friend that has a podcast of any grabs. So he's like, hey, man, when you come out of the book, let's do different that weaving for different any grabs. I said, dude, that's super fun, you know. So it's, you know, it's a horrible boy. Well, it's okay. You, you've presented me with the keys, right? That you're going to be writing about in this book. So I got to pick up one of the keys. Okay. Tell me about you. My favorite good. Well, that, that's for sure. Um, but also, you know, what I'm really, what I really would love to know. Okay, is what are your future hopes and dreams? Oh, great. Future hopes. So turning 60 was very monumental for me. It's kind of creeped up, gripped up on me pretty fast. Um, and, you know, when you're in their 20s and 30s, you're invincible, you know, your 30s and 40s are trying to figure out you're not the only one out there. That you might have something to keep your but your 50s and 60s starts getting into clarity of, oh, this one I'm kind of good at and I'm actually going to add value for the kingdom and people's lives and start moving that. But when you hit 60, you start relating. Okay. I kind of know what I'm really good at and really I know definitely know what I'm not really bad at. Which I have went to give those. But what I'm my future hopes and tires is pouring into younger generations. And I think this book and other things that I'll start creating here is really going to add value to their lives. They don't have to go through some of the pain and hurt and mistakes I went through in the last 40, 50 years. Um, and also how they can be successful in the standpoint of not the worldly success. Though it could happen, obviously, but I'm saying just successful in the war, you know, finish well and really make a huge impact for the kingdom now rather than waiting till the end of the lives. Um, so I'm really excited about doing that. I'm very excited about helping and coming along side of people in the areas of generosity. So I'm not talking about generosity and standpoint, it's just money. There's four ways you can give. You can give and I call it in a cross stick, a cross stick of LIF life. So first one is your labor. So like you build a house and you want to whatever that kind of stuff to labor. Eyes influence. So access to people using influence to help someone. F is finances is pretty obvious and E is expertise. So maybe there's certain expertise that God's giving you. You can then give that as a gift that in an area of generosity. So life, LIFE. I'm running this down. Okay. Okay. So helping people walk through that of trying to figure out that generosity is really the reflection of, I believe, the character of God. So God so loved the world that he what gave his only son is this art. It's our, it's our divine DNA. So it's generous like our father. Hmm. It's so beautiful. So how do we express that in our daily life? Hmm. You know, if you mean any of those four areas or maybe more, I don't know, I mean, so that's that was that across it is from my friend Pete Oaks OCHS who has he's an investment banker in the Midwest. And he not only has businesses all of you, it's like a hydroelectric dam in Central America. He has business, but he has a really cool story. And you can look it up online. Pete Oaks OCHS of a business inside of prison. Super cool. It's a great story. Yeah. Wow. Um, so Kate, you're not church planning right now. You're not pastoring a church, but you're ministering to the next generation. Um, something you said to me, um, before we started recording, you said, um, we're all called to ministry. And I think you're a walking testament to that. Thanks, Alicia. I am on boards. So I serve on that. So I, I'm using my expertise in my influence in that area as well as some finances. Um, and so I am involved in, I'm very intentional in my life. I mean, if people go look at my LinkedIn and, and then they can, they're welcome to go on my website, I can set up a website, uh, kheramini.com. But my focus is on a great commission about souls and church planting, especially in the 1040 window, the hardest places. I've been in North Korea twice, right? So not a lot of people consider, and I've helped with church planning efforts there. You know, so for me, I like to go the hardest, nastiest, ugliest places that the devil has taken over so that Jesus can be exalted and his light can shine in those areas of birth places. So I sit on boards that are very intentional. I sit on board, this very intentional in planting churches and seeing people come to know Jesus through indigenous church planting efforts, meaning local people doing it, not some Westerners coming in, which would be killed right away if they went to some of these countries. So working with indigenous church planters to start the work. Um, so I'm very committed to that. So I'm very passionate about that. Generosity, church planning, church or soul, the great companionship, great commission, and generosity. It's probably the two main things that I'm really focused on. And then the modality I do that by supporting younger people to raise them up to do that, that makes sense. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. So beautiful. Um, well, okay. Thank you for sharing your story with me, sharing your story with us, um, for sharing your hopes and dreams. Um, I would love to talk to you again when your book comes out. Um, I'd love to dig deeper into the keys. And there's a lot that we haven't dug into today for more conversation like that encounter that you had with God that led you on that journey to explore and go to that church. Um, there's I think a lot more to discuss. But thank you. Thank you for being so generous with your time and so generous with your story. I can't, uh, I can't wait to see how your journey continues, especially as your book comes out, thank you, Alicia. Thank you so much for the honor and blessing to be here and most importantly, thank you for being in your relationship with me with my friend and partnering the gospel. So thank you, Alicia, for all you're doing through faithfully and all the other myriad of other things that you do. Um, I know that God has an amazing future to help for you. Thank you. Thank you for tuning in to the Faithless Stories podcast. We pray this episode gave you the encouragement you needed to continue on your journey. 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