The Sneaker Preacher - Ty'Ann Williams

It really was in my yes. It was in my yes because I didn't have a lot of time to work this preaching thing out to be honest. It was the moment that I said yes and it was like, oh, you know, we want you to preach on Sunday kind of thing. And I know it was, this is me when I didn't know what to do. I didn't know what to say. But in my yes, I still approached the pulpit. I approached the pulpit with tears in my eyes. That was my authentic self. Welcome to Faithly Stories, the podcast that brings you inspiring tales from conversations with church leaders as they navigate the peaks and valleys of their faith journeys through their ministry work and everyday life. Join us as we delve into their challenges, moments of encouragement and answered prayers. The Faithly Stories podcast is brought to you by Faithly, an online community committed to empowering church leaders, pastors, staff and volunteers. Learn more at Faithly.co. Get ready to be uplifted and inspired as we unveil the heart of faith through stories from the front lines of ministry on the Faithly Stories podcast. I'm well, Tian, thank you so much for coming on the podcast today. We had your husband, Pastor Alex Williams on the podcast a few weeks ago. And after it was over, Pastor Adam here said to me, well, now it's time to get his better hat 100%. Thank you. We love you, Pastor Alex, but we upgraded today. Truly, truly, truly honored. Thank you so much. Thank you. Yeah. I'm so you are a wife, your mother, your pastor's wife, and you're the executive pastor of I am church. But like your story didn't start when you married Pastor Adam. It started a long time ago. I've heard a lot about you from Pastor Adam. He and you have gone back a lot of years. So I love to go back to the beginning. How did you how did you get called into ministry? Did you always know you'd be pastor? I did not. So yeah, thank you. I it's been a journey. I always go up at a Christian home. So it was raised actually a greater refuge temple in Harlem. Where Bishop William L. Bonner was the senior pastor there. And I grew up singing, directing the choir. You know, just loved this. This is when church was all day. You had served this morning afternoon and I still had to go to school in the morning. So, you know, just very well ingrained in that. And then went to school into college and then headed to my church. Then before the church and I met now a new life cathedral with Bishop Robert Rochford. And still was my I call my bishop, my father in the Lord and was singing doing things there, but the Lord called me while I was there. I never saw it coming. I would lead worship. I sang in groups. I sang background for different artists all over. That was my comfort zone. Dance did, you know, all of the arts. The Lord spoke to me one day when I was reading the word. And prior to that, I would get a lot of words from people. You know, you the Lord is going to use you to teach and preach and all this. And I was just like what like it never hit my radar. And one day I was reading the Bible and John 21, I believe what it says, you know, if you love me, feed my sheep. I don't know if this ever happens to you where you're like reading Bible. And it's literally the words that's like, it's like God is like, I'm talking to you. You know, like this is me and you. And the words just lifted off the page and I knew then God had called me. I didn't know to what yet, but I knew he called me. Interestingly enough, I always wanted to go as seminary before I graduated college. I just I wanted to learn about God from the institutional aspect. And so it just kind of worked. I was like, well, this is probably now good time to go and be prepared for however low is going to use me. I did not know still that I would literally preach in the gospel. You know, nationally, internationally. And it was just the yes, the continued yes with tears in my eyes because it seemed to completely be not who I thought I was. And so coming into this new identity of God calling me to minister to God's people. It's the most amazing thing to be a part of, but also know that, man, this is my identity and God, you know, you can try to make up one for yourself. Sure. There's no better one than the one God calls for you. So you went to seminary. Yes, you come out. What how did the Lord use you when you first came in a seminary? So interestingly enough, I went to seminary not too long ago, about 10 years ago, 34 or so. And it was with while I was in seminary, actually two years in, I almost dropped out because I, you know, although I was like, man, I'm going to learn about God from this institutional aspect. I was like, there's a lot of money to just be learning about. And I looked around and I would just, there was nothing but pastors, church planters, you know, evangelists. And I was just like, I'm none of these things like, why am I here? And the Lord used a colleague of mine, his name is Bryce Hakes and used him. And he just said, you're like, the Lord called you and is going to use you. You're going to preach and you're going to, he's like, I'm telling you, you know, just pray about it. But I want you to think about not. And I prayed about it. And I just, and I cried. And I just said, yes, Lord. Literally after that conversation that following semester, maybe in a few weeks, I preach for our schools. It was like the end of the year, you know, kind of culmination and they would have different speakers. And I was one of the speakers for then. And literally it was like, they made him in there. And from there, people just kept calling and kept asking. And I would preach. And the Lord has a tendency to do this with me. He just like drops me. You know how like the mother bird just drops you. You got a little fly. No prior, you know, training on preaching, no reference point. Truly the Holy Spirit. But it gives me that confidence to know that everything that I have is what God gave me. I didn't copy of anybody. I didn't try to study to be like anybody. I cried the first time I had a preacher. So I was just like, I don't even know what you do. You know, in our culture, there's a lot of people, you know, you're talking one minute and then is hoping the next. And I'm just like, I'm not going to fake. I don't know how to do that. You know, but literally the first time I preach the Lord, I mean with tears in my eyes, I approached the pulpit 15 minutes in just what you see me now. If you have experienced the ministry of God has given me is just just like, I mean, I'm across the pulpit. I, you know, and passionate about the word of God. And I'm just grateful to God. So yeah, it started much later in my years. Wow. I think it takes courage, like in your mid 30s to say, I'm going to, I'm going to take a risk and spend a bunch of money and invest in my education and get used by the Lord and bring a lot to the table. Yeah. Yeah. Like it's brave and it's big. And the Lord has certainly used it. So he had you preaching right away, Pastor Adam also mentioned that you work with youth. Yes. What was that? I was in seminary. Someone said to me, Oh, I know why you, you know, came to seminary and you're preaching now because they wouldn't let you when you were at refuge because they kind of order there is that women didn't preach. But they didn't approach the pulpit and preach the gospel. But even then, I didn't know that like literally was not on my radar. And so, you know, I corrected that person kindly. This wasn't anything that I was looking to do because I think there is sometimes this notion that women of our culture is vying for position and vying for title and vying for that ability to have the same equality as, you know, men in the faith. And none of which was my goal or thought. And so the Lord still used me in that. And so to your point, there wasn't a whole lot of women or even young women looking to aspire to that type of role. However, the Lord using me in that role created lanes for for women to aspire to. The work is a megaphone to the world. It's a megaphone from the Atlantic to the Pacific. It's a megaphone that are on the go. And what you were doing and embodying was helping women rise up in a way that was incredibly unique and momentous. And we just saw young women stepping into their God given call and role because of what you were embodying not just what you were preaching. Talk a little bit about that. Wow. To God be the glory. I think it is super important to be authentic to yourself. And again, the advantage for me was because I wasn't vying to be like anybody else. I truly wanted to be myself and who got called me to in this space. And that allowed my personality, my character, all of who God created me to be prior to prior, you know, those 34 years of all the things that I did to kind of be culminated in this space. And so I really loved that because I was never the, you know, I'm first lady now also, right? But I was never the, you know, wearing the big hats of certain cultural traditions. But the sneakers, you know, but the sneakers. I may have to try something now with the hat and sneakers. I don't know, but the sneakers are fine. They have to make a statement in them. So thank you. So, you know, that's me, right? Like being able to embody the grace of God by the power of the Holy Spirit, coupled with who Tien on the street. Authentically is from Spanish Harlem with the Harlem Tiana Taylor sneaker, you know, and be able to even challenge somewhat of my culture in that because it's like, is that appropriate? That's not appropriate, right? And being able to live that out and people acclimate to, well, this is who God. And I literally had a parent. A parent told me, you know, my daughter saw you in sneakers. And now she wants to come to church in sneakers. And she wants to minister in sneakers. And I've had, and I've seen other women say to me, or they've said to me, you know, man, you preach is that's so cool. My pastor would never let me do that. I'm trying to get, I'm talking to him now to see, you know, you let me preach in sneakers, you know, and just kind of challenging the status quo to be, you know, what, what, if I give a little background story to the sneaker thing, it kind of worked to my advantage because I didn't start out with sneakers. I actually hurt myself. I was, I have an organization called Sunshine City, which is a nonprofit, pretty much, you know, encouraging people to live out their life in the love and light through the love of Christ and through outreach, the recreation missions. So we did kind of a throwback game called fun in the sun. So it's like, you know, what are what are what are guns, you know, relay races, like all the fun things. And the idea behind that is like everyone's not going to step foot in a church. But you bring back some of these nostalgic games and it's like they can see Christ even through that long story short, I'm chasing this guy who douses water on me running, I try to like run over this three tiered wire that he jumped over, I miss it, of course, the wires curl around my foot. And like I, my foot is black and blue, I get a hematoma on my leg and I'm just like, oh my God. So I couldn't literally like walk normally for weeks. I had a boot. So I couldn't wear my heels. I was actually also known for heels like high heels. And so I went to minister one time, but I had to wear my sneakers and then did it again. And then to the point that when I went to minister and I was like, all right, my foot healed, I go to, you know, preaching my, and they're like, we're just sneakers. They done this whole introduction, the sneaker reaches here. And I'm like, oh snap, like it's a big mysterious ways. You're really guys. So it literally became then. And again, it just embodies all of who I am because, yes, sneakers Harlem. This is what we do. I love it. Can I, can I ask you if I drill down on that little bit? Sure. You talk about like being your authentic self, who God called you to be. How did you figure out who this is who I am as a creature? Like, what did it feel like when it sort of clicked in for you? And you said, no, this is it. This is who I am. And this is who the work has come to be. It really was in my yes. It was in my yes. Because I didn't have a lot of time to work this preaching thing out, to be honest. It was the moment that I said yes. And it was like, oh, you know, we went to the preach on Sunday kind of thing. Like, and I know it was this is me when I didn't know what to do. I didn't know what to say. But in my yes, I still approached the, the pulpit. I approached the pulpit with tears in my eyes. That was my authentic self. I didn't try to wipe my tears hurry up and put on a face that I knew that I was what I was doing. I plainly said to the congregation. There with me, because this is a difficult task for me. This is new for me. And this is what God has called me to. And I literally had tears in my eyes as I'm as I'm reading the scripture and doing introductions. In that space, the Holy Spirit breathed on me. And so as I'm reading scripture scripture and as I'm living in that moment and genuinely conveying what the spirit of the Lord is given to me, I embodied that moment. And everything that I am came into that moment, my passion, my love for God, my the responsibility to tell the people what God put on my heart to say. All of that told me this is me and this is it. And before it was over, there was a freedom that released me from the opinions of people that released me from my own self insecurities that released me from formality and presentation. It just released me to be free by the Holy Spirit and whatever the Lord wanted to say, because as we know, oftentimes as preachers, you can lay out whatever you want. But even in that, the spirit is going to navigate where he wants you to go. And so that navigation began to illuminate. And I just followed and I was free in it. And that moment was this is who I am. And I have been that ever since I find that many young leaders, young preachers start off authentically themselves. And their difference is actually why they get invited in the room. Their difference is what attracts people to them. And then somehow they get in the room and start to think everybody really wants to be like them. And they lose that difference. How do you make sure that you stay authentically true to who TN is as a minister? I mean, I've heard, I've heard Bishop Jake talk about that, you know, when the Bible says that from your belly, from the core of who you are, come rivers a little more. It's not your face, it's not your image. It's not even your mind. You're intellect. It's from the core of who you are. How do you TN make sure with all the voices out there on social media and all the people saying, well, if you just tweak this or you just did this, you know, you might get more invitations or you might get more of this or more of that. How do you maintain that authenticity now 10 years plus, you know, in an established ministry serving God with a name with somebody who's invited in some of the, you know, most influential pulpits around the country and around the world. How do you maintain that authenticity? That's so good. I've actually had someone tell me in my first instances of preaching, you know, you're, you're really good, you know, you're extremely good. But, you know, you, the butt, the butt, the butt. I got the butt. I've heard the bad dog. I'm 28 years in. I'm still getting the butt. It will never stop. It will not stop. People will always have opinions. And I think that's one of the things, right? Knowing that people will always have opinions. People will always put you in a box, so to speak, of what they think you should be. And being able to know who you are. You're able to take some of the criticism, but not lose your hair over it. I think you lost your hair over it. Yeah, no, I gave up. My barber was trying to get me a line up and I got further back. And I just was like, you know what? This is ministry. This is ministry in New York City 28 years in. This is what it is. You look good now. You look good. Everybody can't follow. But you know, being able to say, it's just an opinion. But I had that butt. And they said, you know, you get excited too fast in your sermon. You need to kind of pace yourself and wait till the end of your third point, first I didn't even know about three points. I was just giving what I gave me. You need to have three points and you need to wait till the end and then get excited because it's confusing to the musicians. So that was like my friend. I was just like, oh, I didn't. And it was so hard for me because again, I wasn't contriving this. I moved based off of the breath, the breath of the Holy Spirit. And in that moment, if I got past it, listen, go with me. We can come back down. Everybody be all right. But I had to come into that confidence and assurance. It did shake me at first because I felt like I had to conform to a certain way of delivering a message. In over the years of maturity, you learn that, you know, you go back to the basics. Now, I will say there isn't importance of knowing your audience. And I think that is also a blessing that God has given me the ability to be able to preach in the most pinocostal churches, preach, you know, in Presbyterian churches, preach in the Baptist churches, preach in India, where you won't get an amen. And you have to be able to know that you are still authentically. They still go with you, even though they're not shouting you down. They're not responding. And some people, if you're not culturally aware, you'll be like, let me conform or let me stop or let me, you know. And so I think it is important to know you on it. I've taught it, you know, Riverside Church. And I'm not so, you know, there is a little conforming in that to make sure that I'm still reaching people but still being myself and authentic to the word. So I think there's some areas where you may tweak a little here, but remaining authentic to yourself is going back to the basics and going back to who was that person when God first called me, you know, and who was I authentically that I did not have to conform to people's opinion or how to get on the next platform. And I think it starts a part of it is motive, right? Like if your motive is to be on the next platform, then you're going to do everything to get on that platform. But if your motive is to serve God, wherever he sends you, you don't have to worry about the plan. He's going to send you to where you belong. And therefore you don't have to conform to try to get to what that atmosphere is calling for. So the Lord has really put you in some interesting places. Yes, right? It's not often that I meet a preacher who's also an executive pastor. Sure. Who's also a pastor's wife. Sure. Also a mother. So can you talk about how all that works together, especially the executive pastorable church? I've got one word grace. Okay. The grace of God. I'm not smart enough. I am not attractive enough. I'm not independent enough. I'm not collaborative enough. I am not any of what it takes to be any of those things enough to manage it all. It is truly the grace of God that has called me to this space and gives me the ability, the strength, the patience to manage it all. And I still drop the ball sometimes, you know, because of humanity and me growing and learning in this space. Of course with time, I'll be better. But you want to have it all together. You want to execute. You want to perform well. You want to do your best. And for people like me, I want to do my best. I don't like to. I'm not used to dropping the ball. But with more responsibility, it just comes with the territorial. Sure. It's one thing if you have one tennis ball and you can do that and you can do it with your eyes closed. But when you're giving three tennis balls or five or five, you know, it's a new trade. You got to learn and it comes with practice and it comes with you dropping the ball at sometimes. And the grace and the giving myself grace to say, it's okay. And you'll learn from that and you'll know how to manage that. And but it's comforting to know that you could be 23 years. And so you say that 28 years and this and still, you know, and still learn. And I think actually that's a better place to be to say forever as long as I live, I will be learning. Because once you stop learning, I think you have become kind of the walking disease. Leaders should be perpetual learners. Yeah. I mean, we should be on an introductory of always learning. Yeah. And I want to highlight something you said because I don't hear it very often. And that's I was called to it. Pass A.R. Bernard and I were having lunch a couple of days ago. And when we were talking, it seems like the idea of calling is gone. People just where I'm going to go out and launch a church. I'm going to go out and launch a ministry. Are you called to be that? Are you called to be elite? And the Bible is clear that home he calls, he equips. So you're never over your head when you're functioning in your calling. But if you choose to go do it on your own, you're on your own. How do you discern calling and then function in that to say, these are all different roles. I'm an international preacher. I am somebody who's musically gifted. The musicians never hang around with me. They hang around for you. You know, you know, you had executive pastor, first lady of a church. You're functioning in multifaceted roles. But because you're called to it, God's equipping is there. How does the person watching this right now discern that calling and then lean into that equipping? That's a great question. I think you have to have a great amount of self awareness. Knowing yourself, knowing your motives, knowing your proclaiming. Knowing your proclivities. Knowing if your desires are yours or if they've been shaped and molded to God's desires. He said, I will give you the desires of your heart. I'm going to give you what you want. But in your delight yourself in me and I will give you the desires in my presence as I mold you and make you. I'm going to conform you to my desires for you. And so being able to be self-aware regarding that and having that relationship where you are constantly bringing your plans before the Lord. The Bible says, many are the plans in the man's heart. It is the Lord that devises this way and being able to discern. Am I doing this or is God leading me? When you're in relationship with God long enough, you start to and you know yourself and come self-aware enough. You know whether this is more you or this is God leading you. Because at least for me, how God works, there are things that will happen that you know you couldn't have done yourself. When the Lord allowed me to marry Pastor Alex, one of my prayers was God. As much as I love him, I don't want to marry him if you have not given me the grace for him. I don't want, I am not enough to be able to be the wife that he needs if this is not you're doing. And so putting God first, literally putting God first in every decision, every thought, every desire and let God lead me in that. And in that, I know, wow, this happened, oh God orchestrated this. I couldn't have done this myself. I know God called me to this. And for the more in that self-awareness for like for me, I had no desire to like, I had no desire to preach. Now I can't say that some may not have a desire and God still not call you to it because sometimes people plant that seed. I remember when I was before I started to lead and praise a worship. I was telling a friend of the day I went to church in Boston when I was younger, like right in college. And I saw this woman, powerfully leading worship. And I was like, oh my God, she's a mate. Like it was like the room silence and there's like the Lord planted a seed in my heart. Like I want to do that one day, but I wasn't chasing after it. If that makes sense, I wasn't in years later, it did come about. And so being able to just be able to discern and be prayerful about all of those nudges or feelings and judging it according to the word of God. To keep you, you know, in line with God, I want to make sure that this is you and not my own. I'm Tim before you got here, Adam and I were talking about well, like my husband and I used to work together and then we realized we shouldn't be working together. Wow. Adam used to work with his wife and he don't. But you and Pastor Alex seem to have found a really nice way to minister it together. Can you talk a little bit about how you guys make it work and how, like how the Lord has called you to that space together? Yes. I just want to say I've heard a lot of relationship podcasts, the idea of I love him. But if I don't have the grace for him, like I've never heard that on a podcast, that is so good. I mean, we got people out there chasing spouses that don't understand that if I don't have the grace for him or her, it's you can fall in and out of love, walk up on the wrong side of it. It's about covenant. Yes. And it's about grace. It's about grace. Thank you. It's a true story. I really pray that prayer. And I think and I'm going to get to your question. I think being able to be honest about that, being honest about, yes, I'm single. And I do want to be married and I do want that fantasy of love that people try to can try. But I don't want it if it is out of the will of God. I don't because you're going into it losing. Yeah. It may look good, it may sound good, but you're going to go into it losing if God is not the author of it. And he has to be the author and finisher of your faith in every aspect of your life. And being able to say, God, if this is not for me as much as I wanted, thank you for keeping it from me or not allow me to. And I trust that you have what is for me. Because you'll incur a whole lot more pain than you desire to. I rather deal with the pain of being single and not having what I think I want. It wasn't going to something that's not for me. And they were the whole other other side of pain that God didn't intend because my self desires to the precedents. That is a powerful word for singles. Yes. And I mean, singleness right now, it's like that is a ministry in the church. The church of New York City as well as just in this generation of the church. That's a powerful word. Yeah. To that be the glory. Thank you. I think that what made it easier for us? I'm not going to say easy because it all takes work. But it God allows it and his grace makes it feel easy. And our relationship prior to marriage were some foundational things that we had that made it easy going into ministry. We always prayed together. Like always pray together. We would be at a distance. At one point I was living in Connecticut and he's here in Jersey and we would be on the phone and we pray. Morning or night or whatever or over situation, whatever. We had a foundation of prayer. We had foundation, a foundational pillar of communication whereby even if it was difficult to talk about, we talked about it. And we came to an understanding even if there wasn't a full agreement. I think a lot of those pillar relational pillars trust, right? There was trust that was built. And at even one point, chicken, you know, but one of his statements that stuck with me regarding love was love is not real love until it is tested. And so God allowed us to even go through testing to test the love to see how real it was. And so even in that, it allowed us to be able to deal with conflict and tension and be able to still come back together and make it work. All of these things of which we face in ministry now and will face. But I think us having a good hold on those foundational principles of character, spirituality makes it easier to work with and respect. I respect him totally as the senior pastor of the church, my pastor. There's nothing in me that wants his position. And there have been some that have challenged him prior to marriage to think, well, I don't know. You know, she's a preacher. So she may want the mic morning you negative person. You heard it here. Not a thing within me that wants it. You know, it's when he has to like actually push me like, no, babe, we have this whole thing. He's like, I want you to preach a certain amount of them. I'm like, that's okay. How about 20 years? He's like, you're a leader. You know, so it's that's the kind of relationship that we had. So again, I think a lot of those foundational principles that we had during friendship just carried over and amplified to make it easier as we diminish we now. So we haven't really touched on this yet, but you are a starter. You start things like you create things. You put things out in the world. You're a creator. Yeah. I pulled you up on Instagram. And the first thing I see is like nonprofit one. Mission two. Like exciting passion. Platform for me. Like talk about talk about that. Like, have you. It makes all the rest of us underachievers like. No way. Let's. Of what. She is a cop. There's an AI version of T. Oh, it's out there. Yeah. That is hilarious. Listen, let's have Pulantra resume. I already know. Okay, let's. But no, we're in great company. I'm a great company. Um, I have, I think, I think the creativity in me has been discovered along the way in terms of me discovering it. I think other people saw it and knew it, but I think I just did and I didn't realize what I was doing. I grew up in a very creative home, singing artistic home in that, you know, people were singers, performers. Both of my grandparents were like professional band players and it trickled down. Right. My mom at one point was signed, assigned like artist at one point in the law called her and saved her and she got out of that. And so it's very heavily ingrained in terms of the artistic side. But then I grew up being making sure that my parents made sure that I was in a lot of extracurricular activities. So from swimming, track, basketball, sports, right, the like, I love to draw when I was little. Um, that was like my, my safe haven. And I just, I love to draw, but I didn't want to do it professionally because I just, I was like, I like, I didn't want to be forced to do it. I like doing it on my own. So I think all of those were like kind of the seeds of these just different facets of TN and, and as an adult now, those things are the same, but they show up in a different way. And they show up where my passions are or where I feel there is a void, right, to reach people. And, you know, the Lord just drops things on me and I'm just like, man, that's great. You know, it's a great idea. And I think I'm just going to go for it and try it. Now I'm not, I'm not a risk taker has made people me utilize the term so much. It takes a lot of thought and prayer and pushing for me to be a risk taker. And at that point, I love this one's a risk taker, but once I get there, it's like, I'm going to put it out there. So, yeah, and yeah, there's like five different projects that have like going and brewing and again trying to juggle it all. Like here, here and here, but something you just said made me realize there's a common string across all of it. They're just different ways to reach people. Yes. That's like what you're really passionate about. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you. I've served in like in and around the New York area now for decades. Yeah. What do you think the Lord's doing right now in New York? That's a great question. We are in a very sensitive time and sensitive and in different aspects, one of which there are things that we could do and say back then that we couldn't do today without a fence occurring. And I mean that even on disciplinary terms, I grew up in, you know, when we were singing in the choir and you, you know, were talking and it was like, leave, you're not respecting the space. Somebody will sue a church for that now these days, right? I mean, yeah, it's repercussions. I mean, it's not just like. Yeah. It's cancel culture all over the church because you offended me or you, you know, didn't agree with me. So I think that we're in a very sensitive time and it really takes, I think, God raising up a people who are using the same word sensitive to his spirit and timing to be able to be a light in darkness. That he would be revealed. And so for the very thing that I believe the enemy is using to create disunity, God is using it to bring glory to him to those that are sensitive to his move. What that is specifically, I don't put words to it. I think it is just holistically that that is what that the Lord is doing and it takes us as his leaders and those that have committed to him. I think that he's really raising up a people who are not ashamed, who are bold, who know that God is needed in our city and in our world and not ashamed that I have a saying that the dark of the dark, the light of the light. And so people are not afraid of the dark, right, but be able to navigate in this space because God's light is bright enough in us to. You know, interestingly, we've also been through multiple generational transitions. Yeah, yeah, Bishop but the flakes on me, Tim Keller. Yeah. We've got men like my dad who celebrates 40 years of ministry and is going to be transitioning for passage in similar who's 82 at the Brooklyn tabernacle. You've got Nikki Cruz, I was just with him. He's 86 years old and you know, and so these icons, these heroes of the faith that have built incredible things right here in our city, right here in New York. We've got to go look any further than you don't go to the Bible bill. When you think about the people that cut their teeth here in New York City, yeah, that's that's the crew there. Yeah. What do you say the next generation leader that's up and coming and the call of God and how we need to step into the role of taking that baton from the legacy that they've established is great cloud of witnesses that is cheering us on and now carry it forward in New York and then beyond. Because of our day had a more of a compliant audience in a sense, right, because that was the church was the leading authority. It's challenging now because the church in some sense has lost its leading authority. But those characteristics, I think are the basis of our leadership that they will now stand on and amplify with the challenges that we're facing in our day. And so I think that, you know, we're just in a great time, in a great time to see the hand of God show up in ways that that we haven't before and trusting in his omniscience and being able to allow the mission and the kingdom of God to be represented. Because certain things traditionally that were accepted, maybe accepted now, but well, and I even say it's certain ministers that we may see even across social media. They don't look like what we should look like as ministers and as to speak to, you know, that that new testament Jesus that he didn't look like what they thought the Messiah was supposed to look like. But he embodied, he was Jesus, he was the word, the walking word, he embodied the power of God. And I believe you're going to see that in this generation today. We won't look like what people think we should look like, but it's going to be undeniable by the power transformative power of God to bring the kingdom of God to light. That is a powerful and beautiful and optimistic view of the future of the church. I don't know about you guys, but I'm ready for it. Yes. I'm ready. I'm ready. Thank you. Thank you, Pastor Tiana. Thank you. Thank you so much. It's over already. It's a good talk. This is true. This is true. So we're going to tease the part two. Oh, okay. I mean, I know your story is just beginning. Your ministry in a lot of ways is just kicking into my ear. There it is. Yeah. And so we're going to have to follow you and we're going to have to have a follow conversation. I would love so much. I would love that. Thank you so much. It's on it. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for tuning in to the Faithly Stories podcast. 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