Attune to Grow - Tracy Mathews | Faithly Stories

00:01 - Speaker 1 As you taste and see how good it is, like you just want more, and so Attune has a particular approach. But there are a bunch of approaches out there and it's kind of like, and over time you're probably going to learn. Okay, this kind of stuff is helpful in this kind of scenario. And oh, by the way, my friend could really use some Attunement. It's like a long-term journey that leads to fullness of life and that freedom that we were talking about leads to fullness of life and that freedom that we were talking about. All of us will experience better lives if we continually kind of lean in to deeper ways to connect with God. 00:30 - Speaker 2 Welcome to Faithly Stories, the podcast that brings you inspiring tales from conversations with church leaders as they navigate the peaks and valleys of their faith journeys, through their ministry work and everyday life Brought to you by Faithly, an online community committed to empowering church leaders. Learn more at faithlyco. Get ready to be uplifted and inspired on the Faithly Stories podcast. 00:58 - Speaker 3 Tracy Mathews. Welcome to the Faithly Stories podcast. 01:02 - Speaker 1 Alicia, thanks so much for having me. It is a joy to be here. I love what you guys are up to. 01:08 - Speaker 3 Thank you. Thank you and Tracy. We talked not too long ago and I learned so much about you and your background and about Attune, and I'm excited to learn more today. And what I'm really excited to do is something we don't normally do on our podcast. We're going to go through a real-life attuned-to-grow exercise where I will bring you a real-life scenario that I'm struggling with right now in my life and you're going to take me through one of the exercises and we're just going to share that with our audience. So I'm really excited about that. But before we get there, I want to dig a little bit into your background and into a tune and what exactly it is, and so you were part of starting a tune right about 10 years ago. You're the executive director. But before we even talk about that, let's talk about your background, because, like me, you have a somewhat unconventional background for someone who's like in and around this ministry world. You went to business school, you started in corporate, so can you take us through your journey a little bit? 02:14 - Speaker 1 Yeah, I'd be glad to yes. So I'm going to start us in 2007, when I was at a corporate biotech startup and I'd come to faith in undergrad like 2000-ish, but in roughly 2007, like late 2007, I had what I would describe as my first known encounter with the Holy Spirit. It just wasn't part of the faith traditions I had been raised in, so I didn't know that kind of stuff still happened, but it was undeniable and had me in tears and I ended up going to my pastor like this just happened and he knew enough to affirm the encounter and actually put me in touch with a woman who is still my spiritual director all these years later and I will say, outside of Jesus himself, she's probably the biggest single influence on my spiritual journey and it changed the trajectory of my life. So, working with her, I mean I can't say enough. I mean she helped me find the emotion. 03:21 At the end of the day, spiritual directors help you learn to notice the movement of God in your life and with that there's so much undoing that my spiritual director helped me with and a reforming into things that were much more aligned with God and his truth and his design for me and my identity and all that stuff. And along the way I went to her mostly with, like I think in that encounter there was a strong sense of calling and I'm like what am I supposed to do? Because the God of the universe has a calling for me. Like I don't know, I don't know how to do this, and she actually helped me discern over a while that it wasn't yet time for that career switch, that God had a lot to teach me, which he did. And I would say actually over the next oh, that was 2008 probably and it wasn't until 2015 that I discerned it was actually time for the career change. And in between then, all these times of intentional discernment, like okay, is it now, is it now? 04:25 And every time I would hear, you know, be still Tracy, like I have an extended sense of agency, a lot of be still, and God was totally changing and transforming me. So I'm so thankful. But fast forward to 2015, I discern again and expect fully to hear be still, because that's what I always end up hearing and instead what I hear like right off the bat is don't be afraid, wow. 04:56 - Speaker 3 Don't be afraid phrase that you used overextended sense of agency. I'm going to use that for myself. I hear just wait, a lot from the Lord, just wait. And I can't wait until I hear, like, don't be scared. I'm still waiting to hear that in some ways in what I'm doing. But thank you for sharing that and for sharing that it took seven years between the time where he told you change was coming, that you had a calling, until the day that you began to live out that new calling. 05:30 - Speaker 1 Oh yeah, and I would say I love that you highlighted these two things, because I'm guessing a lot of ministry leaders are struggling today with a sense of weight. Actually I'm going to use that double entendre. So wait as in, wait on our shoulders and wait as in the timing of God is just not at all our own timing. So like seven years sounds forever. Why would you tell me way back then, if it's not time to move until so? Both of those I mean attitude now we use this term scandalously patient. 06:05 - Speaker 3 I love that. 06:05 - Speaker 1 With the idea of, like we know, patience is a fruit of the spirit, like patience is good, but you put it in like a leadership setting, and especially an organizational leadership setting, and all of a sudden it's like, oh no, you shouldn't be patient, you should be like aggressive and like go get it. Yeah. So it has been a learning curve. 06:26 - Speaker 3 I love that. It's revolutionary to someone like me who comes from a Wall Street background where patient is really just another word for uncommercial and unproductive. Yeah, and, but you know, we come to learn when you're building for the kingdom and when you just you develop a sort of different worldview, that actually there's a reason why it's a fruit of the Holy Spirit, right? 06:53 - Speaker 1 And ultimately, in learning it, along with it comes freedom, so that, like weight on your shoulder, weight as we learn the ways of God, that it's actually not up to us to figure it out and make it happen that he is the one doing the heavy lifting and simply inviting us to do it with Him. All of a sudden, for me, I use that word freedom, like that's the best. It's hard to put into words, right, but that's the best. It's hard to put into words, right, but that's the best. That's the most frequent word that comes up, that, like this way of leading, feels like freedom. 07:33 - Speaker 3 Yeah, well, I think many of us spend a lifetime looking for freedom but not really knowing the source or how to get there. So I love that, all right, so tell me about Attune to Grow. 07:50 - Speaker 1 Yes. So Attune is a ministry that exists mostly to train leaders and teams in how to better tap into the presence and guidance of God in their daily work and leadership. So we provide training. Most people, most ministry leaders we encounter, can kind of point to a few times in their ministry careers where they've had a strong sense of encounter with the Holy Spirit, the presence of God and guidance from God, and that's wonderful and good. But we know from Scripture that God is with us and has good guidance for every situation we face. Right. So that idea of like how do we increase the frequency of this connection with God, especially kind of where the game of leadership is played in our daily work, teams and locations and spaces? 08:41 - Speaker 3 So that's it. That's amazing. And so there's different ways to interact with Attune. For example, you have some resources right on your website where people can take themselves through some of these exercises. You've designed to help people to do that. They can also engage with you all. So tell me a little bit more about those interactions. Are you working with individuals or groups? Is it churches and corporations, definitely so. 09:06 - Speaker 1 The main target market of Attune would be leaders of teams and organizations and even ecosystems who want to see their system cultivate an ecosystem-wide culture of attunement. So that's kind of the main lane of Attune. But that requires attunement at every level, and so we do try and make resources available for individuals to interact with attunement too, because if we don't have the muscles ourselves, then when we play the game as a team, you know it can only go so well, right? So we do have something called a practice page off of our website, attunetogrow.org/practice, where you can find some audio guided exercises and worksheets to take you through. You know, guided exercises designed to help you take your specific situations where you want God's help and hopefully get more of God's help. With Attune we get brought in to do like team facilitation stuff and we offer training cohorts for leaders who are like ready to kind of up their game in terms of a whole new way of leading that is much more attuned to the spirit. 10:16 - Speaker 3 Cool. Well, so I need to start out by saying I did one of the audio guided exercises on your website and I was blown away. I mean, I had high expectations and I've had personal encounters with God and I know what intimacy with God feels like, and it helped me. It helped me and so I'm so excited to now go through a live exercise with you, guided by you, and so I'd love to dig in now. 10:48 - Speaker 1 Yes, I would love that, and I would actually love your listeners to engage as well. So, if you might want to take a pause and think about a specific situation that you're facing, this is taking each person, what's a situation that you want God's help with? We're going to do an exercise called Search Me and Know Me, and one that is particularly helpful when we're experiencing some stronger reactions or emotions. So it can be anything from a work situation of, hey, I got asked to do this new thing and I'm so nervous, or how do I design this widget? Or, like, my customer is being impossible, or my three-year-old won't put her shoes on, or, you know, my in-laws are coming, I don't know what to make for dinner. 11:33 Whatever, God is with us, has good guidance for every situation we face. So hopefully there's some situation coming to mind and, just to warm us up, I'll invite us to maybe, if it's okay for your listeners, to lay down any kind of multitasking they might be doing. If you're driving, you can do this, but you might want to wait until you're kind of in a still spot and you might even find yourself in a private space where you can maybe close your eyes or soften your gaze and take a couple of deep breaths as I open a supping prayer. Gracious God, we thank you for being a God who is with us in every situation we face. We know and we trust that you have good guidance for us. So open up our deeper ears to hear, give us more of your eyes to see, for we do love you and we do trust you, and we ultimately want more of what you want for us. We pray all this in the name of the Father, son and Holy Spirit. 12:49 - Speaker 3 Amen Amen. 12:58 - Speaker 1 So the first thing I'll invite you to do is related to this particular situation. Go ahead and ask God to bring back relevant scenes related to this situation. Maybe it's when you first learned about it, or maybe just key moments in what's unfolded. You might even fast forward a bit to key moments you think might be coming down the pike, but just let these scenes flush before your mind. And as these scenes flash before your mind, see if you can notice and name one or two of the strongest emotions at play or ways that you feel, and perhaps notice any underlying voice to those one or two strongest emotions. See if you can get a sense for where in your physical body you most feel those emotions. It might be I feel it in my jaw, or my heart, or my stomach or my fingertips. Where in your physical body do you most feel those emotions? Once you've identified where in your physical body you most feel these one or two emotions, go ahead and focus in on that physical sensation and those emotions. Even expand upon them if you're able, exaggerate them, if you're able. Exaggerate them, if you're able, and see if you can put some metaphor to the physical sensation. It might be my stomach feels like a lead ball, or it might be. My heart feels like it's just a ball of ooze, like there's electricity in my fingertips, ooze, like there's electricity in my fingertips. Hone in on where you feel this and see if you can put some metaphor to it. What is it like? 16:00 And as you notice the physical sensations, the metaphor, the emotions, and as you notice the physical sensations, the metaphor, the emotions, see if you can get a sense for what your body might be showing you. What might your body be showing you? And when you're ready, go back to the physical sensation, the metaphor, the emotions. Feel it and now see if you can get a sense for what your physical body wants to do in response. What does your physical body want to do? Does it want to run away and hide? Does it want to fight? Does it want to do a happy dance, go for a run, take a nap? What? 17:04 does your physical body want to do a happy dance, go for a run, take a nap. What does your physical body want to do? And once you've got a sense of it, go ahead and visualize yourself starting to do this thing that your physical body wants to do. And as you see yourself starting to do this thing that your physical body wants to do, go ahead and allow yourself to become aware of God's presence somewhere in the scene. Maybe Jesus is there or shows up, or maybe you see God in the wind or the waves or the other people, or a burning bush, as you see yourself starting to do this thing that your body wants to do, as you see yourself starting to do this thing that your body wants to do. Just keep looking around until you can see God's presence. Just let the scene play out. Notice how God interacts with you and with the scene. As you let the scene play out and, as you're able, see if you can get a sense for God's heart's posture towards you and towards this theme. How does God feel towards you and towards this scene? Is he intense or relaxed, joyful or sad, concerned, compassionate? How does God feel towards you and towards the scene that's playing out? When you're ready. See if you can summarize your best sense of God's guidance and heart for you, and if you've got a notepad or an open word box, you might even write it down. This can help you clarify and coordinate. See if you can capture your best sense of God's guidance and heart for you. I'll give you another 20 seconds or so. 21:46 Capture your best sense of God's guidance and heart and test it. You know we recognize that learning to recognize which voice in our heads is God's takes some learning and usually is a lifelong journey. So the way we like to test it at a tune is to consider does it conform to the truth of scripture? And usually the harder bar to pass, does it actually engender the fruit of the spirit within me? So just read back through anything you've captured, just set aside or strike through anything that doesn't pass by through those tests and with whatever does pass this test, our last step is what we call our go step, knowing that often we can get into motion. God will show us more as we go. 22:34 So we encourage people with their best sense of God's guidance and heart to come up with at least one near-term actionable next step they can take to get moving in the direction of their best forms of God's guidance, and that's including if God says wait, for example, you're just going to come up with. Okay, what's the next step or two I could take that will help me wait in the postures of patience or whatever it is that God has for us? So, whatever would be a pleasing act of obedience. What are one or more next steps I can take? Gracious God, we thank you again for being with us. We ask that you would just help us grow ever further into your will and your ways and your best for us. We love you back and we are yours. 23:38 - Speaker 3 In. 23:38 - Speaker 1 Jesus' name. 23:40 - Speaker 3 Amen All right. 23:43 - Speaker 1 So thank you for going through that exercise good. Alicia, I would invite you to just take a little bit of time to share whatever seems good and right to help you further voice, clarify, claim or act on your best sense of God's guidance. So listeners here don't need to understand what's going on, but we just consider this to be usually a pretty helpful part of the discernment process. To kind of voice it out loud Again whatever helps you voice and clarify and claim and act on your own best sense. 24:18 - Speaker 3 Yeah, I mean I would love to share with you the scenario that I brought through the exercise and I'd love to share with you some of my different thoughts along the way. You might have to prompt me and remind me what some of the different steps were, but I would love to share and I hope it's helpful to our listeners as they're thinking about their own scenarios. So when you asked me to prepare a scenario, I thought that I would choose a work scenario. As you and my listeners know, I've been building faithfully for some time and we've got big milestones ahead and it's all very exciting. 24:56 And, yeah, there's a lot of there's frustration and there's uncertainty in it too. So I thought I would bring a scenario from that has sparked emotion, right Like an outsized emotional response from you, and I found that for me in my life right now, it actually isn't what I'm building, it's not my work, but it's actually in motherhood. So my family and I are in Long Island right now. We're here for the summer in a new place and putting my kids to bed at night has been a struggle. The three of them, they're sharing a room and they just don't want to go to sleep and I find that bedtime is like an hour to an hour and a half later than what we're accustomed to when we're in this city, and my anger, and my frustration, like I've felt these things in ways that I do not normally feel, these things as I think about all the things that I need to do, that I want to do after they go to bed, and so that is what I brought to the scenario. 26:05 - Speaker 1 Totally. Thank you for sharing that, and motherhood is a key area of vocation for many yes, and I for many yes, and I feel you yes. 26:15 - Speaker 3 Just go to bed. Yeah, and they're good kids, like they're not trying to be like defiant or unruly, they're just really way too excited to be conscious and want to keep being conscious. And you know, having fun and I understand that, but it doesn't keep the frustration and the anger from building and so, yeah, that's what I brought into the exercise awareness of like oh, this is how I'm experiencing this, or it might be this is God's guidance for me, or how things played out. 26:55 - Speaker 1 Next step you might take it's totally up to you what you want to share. 26:57 - Speaker 3 Yeah, I mean I kind of want to share it all, like I want to share with you some of like the pictures that I got as I was, you know, and the things that I visualized as you took me through the exercise. 27:06 - Speaker 1 I would love it and it's such a gift here the cleaners right Because we can all experience God in such different ways. 27:12 - Speaker 3 Yeah, it's so true. I want to say also, before I showed what I visualized, you know, one of the ways that I knew that this was what I needed to take through the exercise, raise my voice and shout a little bit. I always wanted to go back and apologize, I always wanted a do-over, I always felt regret, and so that's how I knew something here is not quite right and it's something I need to bring to the Lord, which your exercise helped me to do, which your exercise helped me to do. So you asked us to visualize, to bring to mind some of like, some of the scene right to like, make it come alive in our minds. And so I thought about like me, like telling my daughter to put her pull-ups on and telling my son to brush his teeth, and he just wouldn't brush his teeth Like I really, like, brought these things to mind and like it helped me to tap into that feeling of like, frustration and anger, and that I would feel, as we're like 45 minutes in this process. 28:19 And you asked us to visualize, like what does that look like? Right, like what's a metaphor for that feeling? And for me it was like a chaotic ocean rising in my chest, like that's where it was located. For me it was helpful to like sort of articulate that, at least in my mind, and you prompted us to do that. 28:43 - Speaker 1 Yeah, it's like we have this deeper sense of things, but until we can do what we call the work of surfacing, then our conscious mind doesn't really understand, it can't kind of wrap its head around, it can't cooperate with what God might be up to. So it's important work and it's a whole skill set that kind of modern day has lost on our behalf. So, yeah, being able to surface into consciousness, this is what it feels like. This is what I'm feeling. 29:10 - Speaker 3 Yes. So once I was able to articulate that right, this like chaotic ocean, like rising in my chest I think it was at that point that you asked us to like sort of invite the Lord into that right and right away, I visualized God's arms around me and like his heart lined up behind mine and his hands just placed upon my chest. You know, and I had this thought about the opening lines of scripture in Genesis, where the Holy Spirit is hovering over the waters and hovering over chaos and, you know, doing what the Holy Spirit does, which is to bring order and to bring peace. And I felt, like, with God's hands on my chest, that that was what he was bringing to me and and like so you had asked us at the end to sort of have like a takeaway like what do you think? Like, what do you think God's trying to tell you? 30:07 Right, like, what do you think? Like the, what do you think he's trying to show you? And what I understood from that picture is that is a natural response to like what's happening. And I need release, but the release that I get from raising my voice or by, like showing my children my impatience, that's not the release that I'm called to the release that I'm called to. The release that he has for me, I should say, is one where, when I'm in that moment, just connecting with him, you know like a moment of prayer and inviting him to go ahead and place his hands on the chaotic waters and to find release in that. 30:55 - Speaker 1 Did it change the way it felt in your chest, like if you went back to that metaphor of the chaotic waters? Is it like his hand is like the you know the spirit hovering above the chaos kind of feeling? Or was it like, oh, the waters recited yeah, there was. 31:11 - Speaker 3 I mean, I definitely visualize and sense a calming of the waters and it like going down a little bit but never going away completely. 31:20 - Speaker 1 Yeah, the waters are real. 31:22 - Speaker 3 The waters are real. They're not going to go away completely, but with the Lord's hands over them, there is a calming right and there is a harnessing, if that makes sense, yeah. 31:37 - Speaker 1 Say a little more of the harnessing that's such interesting language. 31:41 - Speaker 3 Yeah, nothing is outside of the Lord's control. I think that's what I mean by harnessing, like his hands. His hands can bring things into control that we can't control ourselves. Yeah. 31:56 - Speaker 1 Amen, amen, amen. Did you have a sense for how God felt towards you as he placed his hands? 32:06 - Speaker 3 It was really helpful that you ran through this list or like does he feel like this, does he feel that like that? And I, like I tested each one to see what felt right and what fit. I think compassion feels like it fits, a little bit Like I grabbed onto that one, the most of all the words that you listed, but then a new word sprung to my mind which is supportive, like I just felt him like supporting me, like holding me up, holding me there. Yes, yes, oh, I love that. 32:39 - Speaker 1 I love that. If I can ask, did you feel like there's a next step, that you're like, yeah, I could do this and I think it would be helpful? 32:48 - Speaker 3 Yeah, I mean, I think it really is Like. 32:51 I mean I have to confess like over the last two weeks of, like, struggling with my children at bedtime, not once did I think about the Lord in any of those moments, not once. 33:00 I think this exercise was an invitation, it was a reminder to me to invite the Lord into it in these moments that, like in my moment of, like, chaotic waters, in my moment of struggle, just to reach out to Him and to visualize and remember that he's here to support me and I might, like I might not regret the way I speak to my children. I might not, you know, I might actually like arrive at a different place. Not that it's not going to way I speak to my children. I might actually arrive at a different place. Not that it's not going to be a struggle to put my children to bed. I think it probably will be, but I think, with his support, I can handle it in a different way, that I won't, once they finally do go to bed, feel regretful that I can go and do the things I need to do with greater freedom to use that word again, right and greater peace. 33:51 - Speaker 1 Oh, that is so good and you are not alone. I don't think many of us are, we it's. You know, this attunement to the Lord in our kind of normal daily life is not in our kind of normal daily life is not, it's not really normalized in most spaces, most Christian spaces, most Christian ministry spaces. So you know, you're not alone and it's a whole like practicing the presence of God and all of that. There are muscles that we grow and ideally, you know, within a system, we kind of encourage each other to grow in this way. Within a system, we kind of encourage each other to grow in this way. 34:28 But I'll say, if we can even get used to that, like ooh, when I'm activated or emotionally dysregulated or stressed out, or whatever language you want to use, that's a really helpful reminder. Like this is probably a helpful time that if I Attune to God then I will actually feel better. Like that, if I Attune to God, then I will actually feel better. Like not only will I respond with greater wisdom and maturity, but I'll also just feel better. Right, there's like an immediate fruit and a gift in the presence of God which is, you know, which is meant to be a carrot. 35:00 - Speaker 3 Yes, he wants that for us. He wants that for us. Oh, something else I wanted to mention is I really like how you conclude the exercise by asking us to compare it to scripture, right, because there are so many instances when you are trying to Attune to the Lord where, like, your own thoughts enter the picture, where you know we, like we, can get confused, and I think that that was it's a really helpful reminder, like, actually, is this consistent with the Word and with the character of God? You know, in my case, it was a very easy yes, like you know the things that the thing that he wants me to do, which is to, you know, find him for support and to calm the chaotic waters, it's fruit of the spirit, right, it's like gentleness and patience and these things. That like it was a pretty easy yes for me. 35:55 - Speaker 1 Excellent, excellent, and sometimes it's not, which is totally okay. Right, it's like part of the journey, which is a very fruitful journey is starting to tease apart. 36:04 okay, is that your voice, or is that my voice? Is that my mother's voice? You know all of that stuff and even like David, I get you know. Search me and know me is after Psalm 139. And just that idea of like as much as God knows me. I need God to tell me if there are any ways within me that are not His best for me, because it's like we're all limited in our own self-awareness. 36:28 - Speaker 3 Yes, and we are all limited and that's what. So this is what I love about this exercise and everything that you do at Attune. I think that, as people in ministry and for pastors, I think we can sometimes feel like we should have it figured out and that we shouldn't need help accessing, you know, inviting the Lord into like our daily life or in these scenarios, but that's it's just not true, like we all need help. We're all limited and the beautiful thing about these exercises is it's just like you all, at a tune, reaching out a hand and just like gently guiding us down the path that we want to walk down and we know we ought to walk down. 37:14 - Speaker 1 Definitely. And we say like because God is infinite and inexhaustible. There are endless ways to connect with God. So, like, and as you taste and see how good it is, like, you just want more. And so Attune has a particular approach, but there are a bunch of approaches out there and it's kind of like, fill up your toolbox with those that are most helpful to you and over time you're probably going to learn. Okay, this kind of stuff is helpful in this kind of scenario. This kind of stuff is helpful in this kind of scenario. And oh, by the way, my friend could really use some attunement. I bet this will be helpful for her, given you know how she tends to relate to God, or you know that kind of thing. It's like a long-term journey that leads to fullness of life and that freedom that we were talking about us will experience better lives if we continually kind of lean in to deeper ways to connect with God. 38:12 - Speaker 3 Yes, so this exercise that you took me and our listeners through is called Search Me and Know Me. I know you have others as well, but is this like the go-to that if people are just looking to get a taste of your methods? 38:24 - Speaker 1 So we have a couple of exercises for free on our practice page of our website. It has this one which gets into more of that kind of we sometimes we use the language right-brained or creative modes, Like there are certain techniques that will help with more of that surfacing work. So today we used, like metaphor and body-based awareness and visualization, right, those kinds of things are kind of hallmarks for a tune, because we're trying to help people adopt these postures in their work context, where it's just strange to open yourselves up that fully. So that's why we gave a taste of that. There's another one called Wisdom from Above, which is more like a classic reflection exercise. So both of those are available If this kind of stuff is helpful to you. 39:07 We've got a bunch more maybe six or eight, maybe 10 more exercises available on a subscription-based practice portal that's what we call, but you can get there via our practice portal as well, Our practice page, I should say. And you know there's exercises that use different kinds of visualization or different kinds of remembrance or just different techniques that are fairly well known to do that surfacing work or help us. 39:34 - Speaker 3 Perfect, and you mentioned this earlier on in our conversation. But you all are available and eager to visit with organizations to do this with teams, right? 39:46 - Speaker 1 Absolutely, absolutely. 39:47 So it's one thing to do this in the privacy of your own home or car, wherever you are doing this exercise. 39:55 It's another thing to do it in front of your colleagues and to actually justify, rationalize this way of leading, because we did it here on parenting, which really matters. But, like, God has thoughts, good, helpful thoughts on like budget allocations and what you cover for your next sermon series and how to go, how to kind of work through the sticky issues from a staff perspective. Right, God cares about all these things, about all these things, and it's unfortunately very abnormal for a team to say, hey, the way we do this is, yes, we want to use our full God-given agency and what we can see and rational thought and big data and all these things, but God can see more than we can. So let's listen and if and when we sense the Spirit's leading and guidance, we're going to follow that, even though by our own human sight we might not have seen it that way. So, that kind of work, we like to kind of be there to help teams gently stretch in it, because it's weird and wonky and scary, yeah. 41:00 - Speaker 3 Wow. I mean, if I may say, Tracy, like, the Lord's fingerprints are all over you and all over this. I think it's not insignificant your background, which comes full circle to the beginning of our conversation. You're a Harvard MBA, like, you worked at McKinsey and you worked at a biotech company. You have a lot of skills and tools the Lord's given you but, like, are right there at your fingertips to solve problems and to get things done. And if you, Tracy Mathews, need to Attune to the Lord and everything that you're doing, I mean, that, I think, just sends such a powerful message to those of us who believe but also need to Attune and need to bring the Lord into every step of our journey. 41:50 - Speaker 1 Thank you. And what I'll say is life and leadership is so much better this way. There is freedom and fullness of life when we don't think it's all up to us. Right back to what we said, with that weight and from a startup perspective, I was trained you're supposed to know what you're doing and how to get there Right. And now actually it's very good innovation principles that if you actually like think you know what to do, you kind of lose the ability to learn and iterate. Know what to do, you kind of lose the ability to learn and iterate. But it's harder to kind of spiritually form your heart and mind and soul to be comfortable in the I don't know. I don't even know where we're going, much less how to get there, and yet we have a strong sense for where God wants us to be and that is. That is enough. Like we're good, it's going to be good. 42:44 - Speaker 3 You know what we might call this episode, Tracy. We might just call this episode Scandalously Patient. What would you think about that? 42:51 - Speaker 1 Yes, yes, yes. I love that phrase because the ways of God are scandalous. Yeah, it's so different than what we've been taught. 43:03 - Speaker 3 Yeah, absolutely. I love that. Well, thank you, Tracy, for your time today. It really is such a pleasure talking to you and such a blessing to be taken into the presence of the Lord through the Attune method. I really appreciate it. 43:19 - Speaker 1 Thank you, and thank you for showing up fully. It's no small thing that you're willing to kind of open up your interior life for your listeners. But if we want to create those communities of faith amongst ministry leaders, that kind of vulnerability that allows ourselves to be seen and known with God and with the Holy Spirit, that's exactly what we need. 43:40 - Speaker 3 Yes, yes, I couldn't agree more. Thank you, Tracy. 43:44 - Speaker 2 Thank you for tuning in to the Faithly Stories podcast. We pray this episode gave you the encouragement you needed to continue on your journey. The Faithly Stories podcast is brought to you by Faithly, an online community committed to empowering church leaders, pastors, staff and volunteers. The Faithly digital Platform offers innovative and practical tools and resources to enhance connection, foster collaboration and promote growth within the church and ministry space. Remember to subscribe, rate and review our podcast to help reach more listeners like you. Stay tuned for more uplifting tales from the front lines of ministry on the Faithly podcast. Stay bold, stay faithful and never underestimate the power of your own story.