The Drift is Real - Pastor Judah Smith & Dr. Dharius Daniels | Masterclass Episode 4

(0:02 - 0:18) So you ask the question, how do you train up and lead the next generation? I think it's important that you let that generation have a voice. This idea that every Sunday we can guarantee that God's going to meet us in the 45 minute presentation. Ladies and gentlemen, it is just not how it works in the sacred narrative. (0:18 - 0:31) How does he give you a heart for such a specific place? And then to really see the stats and to really say we want to make change and it's possible. You know, the hardest part in leading change is not where you leave and it's not when you get there. That spot in the middle. (0:31 - 0:40) Sometimes in your weakness, foolishness, not getting it. God's like he just does it anyway. If there's a core issue in my faith, then I can't see God right. (0:40 - 0:58) And I'll demand he does for me quickly what my character can only handle slowly. How do you know what you're speaking into until you hear where they're coming from? I had to see that proper rest and replenishment wasn't in the way it was the way. I will borrow from what's on the inside of you and bring it out. (0:58 - 1:20) So the quality goes in before the song comes out. Humility is this acceptance of who you really are, who God really is, that puts you in a posture to encounter God in a genuine and authentic way. Welcome to Voices from the Masterclass, a special Faithly podcast series brought to you by Faithly, Preaching Masterclass and Leading Leaders Collective. (1:21 - 1:30) Pastor Adam Durso live from Preaching Masterclass. We are on Faithly Stories. I am joined by Dr. Dharius Daniels. (1:30 - 1:36) Say what's up to the audience. What's up, everybody? Excited to be here. And the incomparable Pastor Judah Smith. (1:37 - 1:40) Come on. I'm thrilled to be here. I am. (1:41 - 1:53) I mean, what we just experienced is phenomenal. There seems to be. I mean, for me, being a PK and then being around the ministry for the last 30 years, go to a lot of conferences, been to a lot of conferences. (1:54 - 2:00) There seems to be a weightiness to this conference. That's a little different. I don't know if it's the meatiness of the. (2:00 - 2:13) I don't know what it is, but there is something distinctly different. Can you give your reflection of the Preaching Masterclass and what we've experienced this last afternoon? Yeah, well, this is actually my first one. OK, and I didn't quite know what to expect. (2:14 - 2:25) And just speaking, frankly, you know, you know this, Adam, Judah, you know, Stu, bro, we do a lot of. I've been in church my whole life. We do a lot of conferences. (2:25 - 2:43) And after a while, the value add just diminishes a bit because, you know, when you're starting off, everything is new and everything is a value add. But this has been by far one of the most helpful, enriching experiences that I've had in a very long time. And I attribute it to a couple of things. (2:43 - 2:57) One is the non pretentious nature of the event. I feel like every presenter is serving the attendees and not just serving their best stuff. So I think that makes a tremendous difference. (2:58 - 3:07) And then to the diversity of voices and perspectives. Yes. And I think that just makes everything just so rich for me, at least. (3:07 - 3:17) Yeah. And I think all of that ends up happening because it's led with intentionality, you know, from from Albert Tate. And this is kind of the life that he's lived. (3:17 - 3:24) And it's refreshing as we all are aging. You know, we're not as young as we used to be. You start to look back and go, oh, wait a minute. (3:24 - 3:38) Albert Tate's been doing this a long time. And Adam, you've been doing this a long time. And so I think what has been provided is probably taken decades to create an environment like this where there's implicit trust. (3:38 - 3:51) I mean, I'm in the hugging people the last few minutes that, hey, I first heard you here. And then when and everyone's kind of got this 10 year, 20 year, 15, 18 year kind of connection. And everybody is in the room leaning in. (3:52 - 3:55) I agree. I agree so much. There's so little pretension here. (3:56 - 4:09) But I cannot help but give accolades to Albert Tate because I think I was talking to a pastor on the phone as I was getting here. And he's like, do you like it? I was like, well, I like Albert Tate. And I feel like if he's leading this, I'm going to be there. (4:09 - 4:21) And I so enjoyed the minutes and moments that I've been in the room with these incredible ministers. And then, of course, I can't help but say Bishop Omer, who we so look up to. And I have revered since I was a young boy. (4:21 - 4:27) So to me, I couldn't agree more. It means a lot to me to hear Dharius say that. We've been friends for a long time. (4:27 - 4:41) And I think there is something special about this event and about this room and what happens in it. I think, you know, we wake up in the morning pretty motivated, ready to go. But there's something about this conference that's not just like rah, rah, we can get to the top of the mountain. (4:41 - 5:15) There's something about like give me a pickaxe, give me the boots, give me the stuff, the tools. What are the tools that leaders that are listening right now should be applying to their leadership, their preaching, their leading organizations, NGOs, nonprofits, churches? What are some of the tools they need to be making sure they're putting in their arsenal, should be sharpening their acts so that they can lead most effectively? Wow. You know, I think what I would say, at least based on this conference, is it's important for leaders to see communication as a leadership competency. (5:15 - 5:18) Yes. Yeah. I think that's very underrated. (5:19 - 5:28) Yeah. You know, and even like biblically, if you look at the story of the Tower of Babel, like whatever you're building, you build it better if you get better with words. Yeah. (5:28 - 5:32) Like the building, the construction stuff. Yeah. Because there was like a gap in the communication. (5:32 - 5:44) And I just really feel like whether you're making presentations or having conversations, it's still all communication. And that's got to be seen as a leadership competency and developed like it's a leadership competency. A hundred. (5:44 - 6:01) Yeah. I think the concentration, too, on a very specific aspect of leadership, I think is so potent and powerful, and it probably makes the room as dynamic as it is. I think the willingness and maybe even the riskiness to go, hey, this is going to be a preaching masterclass is a very definitive title. (6:01 - 6:06) It's a very definitive kind of target. And I think that's refreshing. I think we benefit from that greatly. (6:07 - 6:29) I also think because of who the Tate's are, because of who Albert is, there is this underlying. And it's the first time that Dharius and I have been together in this room. And I think the even the kind of the flow that I felt in the room from what he was saying, what I was saying, Albert seems to have a way and the environment seems to have a way of saying, hey, please be like fully yourself. (6:29 - 6:49) And don't turn this into a performance. And I've seen so many different communicators now come through the masterclass, and it's almost as if they get in the jet stream and they themselves without even prepping kind of go, oh, and P.S., by the way, be your original self. And perhaps that's why Paul emphasizes it so much with Timothy. (6:49 - 6:54) He's having a bit of a crisis of leadership and partly because of his success. There's there's no test like success. Right. (6:54 - 7:06) And he's worried about it. And Paul says, hey, listen, be strong in your charisma, be strong in something that you didn't earn, deserve it or warrant. You simply receive, be strong in it, accept it, absorb it, recognize who you are, you know, and do you. (7:06 - 7:26) And I think the diversity of the room in different movements and traditions and backgrounds, it's not lost on me that a lot of the different preachers and ministers that are here have so many different theological traditions that have informed them to this point. And yet there's an ability for really profound unanimity that I really respect and love. So I cannot underscore enough. (7:26 - 7:40) I don't even know. This probably isn't supposed to be a commercial for the Preaching Masterclass, but it just turned into it because I can't help it, because I really do believe in it that much. Yeah, I mean, I think obviously, you know, we're impacted because we're sitting here live from Preaching Masterclass in Southern California. (7:40 - 8:01) But when we think about leadership beyond this particular conference, you're both ridiculously busy. And yet it sounded to me in both of your messages and both of your teaching, there is this need to be fully present, to avoid performance. It was different in your presentation. (8:01 - 8:19) It was different in your presentation. And yet both keenly true of each other and complimented each other. And so for leaders that are busy, how do you ensure that you're being fully present and being present with the Lord? Yeah, Judah. (8:38 - 8:51) I will say that, first of all, if it was easy. Let me just sink into this for a second. If it was easy, everybody would do it. (8:51 - 9:10) And what I mean by that is if you go to any conference, any convention, any retreat, any advance, anything particularly with church leadership, and you introduce the idea of returning again to your first love and getting back to that child who fell in love with Jesus. Listen, Adam Dare, as you both know, the whole room is going to be like, ah, man, that's the truth. We all need that. (9:11 - 9:23) So in other words, the drift is real. The gradual drift is real. And oh, by the way, I would suggest that actually the drift becomes incredibly more in play when you are the disseminator or the baker. (9:23 - 9:33) So in other words, the starving baker John Maxwell used to talk about. You're constantly making bread for everybody else. You forget that making the bread is not the same as eating the bread. (9:33 - 9:49) So first of all, I just don't like the premise and the notion that some preacher or minister or leader is bad because somehow they're suddenly lean in their soul. I would say that's a very normal, natural drift. And when you're about the work of the kingdom, you forget to be a sheep in the pasture. (9:49 - 10:02) So I just want to say that I want to normalize that a little bit and say, listen, we're all going to be there. There's going to be days you got to return to your first love. I think in terms of how you do it, I think there is an underlying kind of thing that we don't talk about enough. (10:03 - 10:15) And it's very, very basic and simple, and it's not going to be revelatory, but it's easily easily overlooked. And it's this little thing called humility. Now, bear with me, because humility is not the action of acting humble. (10:16 - 10:33) Humility is this acceptance of who you really are, who God really is, that puts you in a posture to encounter God in a genuine and authentic way. Humility is that thing in you that says, I need that. Humility is that thing in you that says, I'm a nightmare. (10:33 - 10:54) Humility is that thing in you that says, I've stopped thinking about me and got lost in another person's message or ministry and really connected with God. And I know that might sound silly, but we do drift and we become professional and it becomes a whole thing. And if we're not careful, we name it a bunch of different things like busy and distracted. (10:54 - 11:18) But oftentimes it comes back to this really profound spiritual posture, which is like, are we able? It feels more sophisticated and more Godly to be in the kitchen like Martha and cooking stuff up and doing the right thing. It seems noble, nobility. And it takes a lot for a man of God or woman of God to crisscross applesauce in front of Jesus and say, I'm just going to absorb all the revelation that comes from him. (11:19 - 11:36) And so I think one of the reasons we enjoy, I'm not trying to harp on this, but going back to the environment that we all benefit from here at the master's class. Well, look at the men and women that lead this environment. These are truly, in my opinion, truly men and women who embody what it means to be humble. (11:36 - 11:43) They are life learners. They are listeners. They don't care what your age is, your background, your story, or even your pedigree. (11:43 - 12:01) They want to know what do you know about God because I can learn from it. If you watch Bishop Ulmer when he's not preaching, there's a whole message there that you can learn. That's kind of me inching into, you know, how we get back to enjoying the presence of Jesus and being present. (12:01 - 12:11) What Judah said. I really feel like one thing really, really quick. It is, I feel like what Judah said is so important. (12:11 - 12:22) He normalized the gradual drift. Right. And I just think the question becomes, if we know that the drift is normal. (12:22 - 12:35) Right. Then what discipline do we put in place? So for me, I would say, hey, OK, I have replenishment disciplines. The things that I know I need to do to replenish me, whether that's emotionally, spiritually, et cetera. (12:35 - 12:59) Right. Then there also needs to be returning disciplines. What are the things that I need to do when I sense my soul is getting lean? And I think if I think if we're honest, when we when we have seasons where our soul is lean, what we assume is going to happen, we're never going to get back there. (12:59 - 13:06) But like once I fix it this time, it's going to stay fixed. Right. I'm a sit at the feet of Jesus. (13:07 - 13:13) And then especially in leadership, there's somebody coming, tapping you on the shoulders. I'm trying to sit at the feet of Jesus. The building's on fire. (13:14 - 13:20) I'll be back. Jesus. Staff is going to be back. (13:20 - 13:46) Jesus. And so the question, I think, is like, OK, not just what do I need to do to try to stay there? Wow. But what do I need to put in place when I feel like I need to return there? And for me, that's going to be like, how do I proactively create margin and space in my schedule so that I've got the time to return? You know, the old hymn says, you know, my soul prone to wander. (13:46 - 13:51) Prone to wander. That's it. D.L. Rudy said, you know, why do we need to be filled with the Holy Spirit daily? Because we leak. (13:51 - 14:11) So what are some of the things in your lives, man, that you say, these are those practices to ensure that I'm returning what I feel. And who are the people? I know for me, it's my wife. And she's like, Adam, you know, we've been married 26 years in December. (14:12 - 14:24) My wife's a Puerto Rican from East New York, Brooklyn. You know, Adam, it's time to like, you need to pull back. And who are the people in your life that are saying that to you? One, because sometimes we don't see it ourselves. (14:24 - 14:33) And two, what are those practices that you put in place to make sure you come back for replenishment? I just want to say, I want to jump on with what Dharius said. Go for it. Preemptive margin. (14:34 - 14:42) Everybody is down for margin when they feel like it's crises. Right. It's like, oh, it was margin that I needed. (14:42 - 14:59) But the problem is, is when you put margin into your schedule, it is very hard to justify its nobility or its spirituality because it feels like you're scheduling nothingness. And the truth is, if we're all honest at this table, I get made fun of for my margin. OK. (14:59 - 15:03) So we don't talk about that. Right. So I get like, I mean, I used to have my my pastor. (15:03 - 15:08) One of my mentors used to be like, I should be nice to you always. You live on vacation. You live on vacation. (15:08 - 15:16) Well, guess what? I'm also still married 26 years. I'm not sexting with nobody else. Exactly. (15:17 - 15:28) I'd like to go ahead and chalk that one up to preemptive margin. It's really difficult for us to say, like, man, I just I mean, I just pass. Pastor, would you pray for me? We all know we go to these events. (15:28 - 15:54) It's like, man, would you just pray for me? I've been really going through a tough time. And the most wildest thing you want to tell somebody is that if you actually would lessen your schedule and you would block out. Here's the thing about artistry and here's the thing about being a random abstract artist is what you understand is how inspiration, the trajectory of inspiration, the flow of inspiration by nature is unpredictable and very similar to the rhema word of God and how God speaks to human beings. (15:55 - 16:08) This idea that every Sunday we can guarantee that God's going to meet us in the 45 minute presentation. Ladies and gentlemen, it is just not how it works in the sacred narrative. We see God showing up oftentimes when the recipients least expect it. (16:08 - 16:22) So if we can plan a walk in the park, maybe one of the bushes will burst into flames and God will start talking. But to predict the burning bush, to predict the still small voice, to predict. In fact, there's the whole lesson with the prophet. (16:22 - 16:25) The earthquake comes, the wind comes. Well, that's God. That's God. (16:25 - 16:28) That's God. It's the still. So sometimes we've got to get quiet. (16:28 - 16:45) We've got to get into nothing. And so I would say everybody loves this conversation. But what I still don't see is any prevailing trend amongst leaders and preachers, specifically spiritual leaders who champion each other's margin. (16:45 - 16:51) Yeah, that's what I want to see. I want to be in the green room where we're all like, yo, bro, you took a month off. That's what I'm talking about. (16:51 - 16:55) Right. Hey, wait, you take three days off a week. Now we're talking. (16:55 - 17:02) Instead, it's like, whoa, must be nice central pay. Whoa. Okay. (17:02 - 17:04) Right. Everybody kind of does that. Right. (17:04 - 17:18) It's such an old shtick. But if I'm honest, it's actually subtly, sneakily kind of stealing from us. And we all feel this imminent pressure that if I'm going to be a man of God, I got to be about it every day, all day. (17:18 - 17:39) Right. And it's secretly, I think, sappiness of our strength. You know, I think what Judah is describing, Adam, is something that, um, it is really something that I think has actually become a bit pervasive in Christian leadership culture. (17:39 - 17:56) Okay. Um, I think what he just described, not margin, but like what he just described, unfortunately, is normal. And I feel like, and what I mean by that is kind of the marginless living. (17:56 - 18:02) Yes. And the passive aggressive critique. Right, right, right. (18:02 - 18:06) That you get. It's not always outright, but the passive aggressive critique. Yup. (18:06 - 18:19) That, and the critique is really critique of strength. I don't know what it is. Um, I know what it is in my, in my circles, right? It's almost like, yeah, that much time off your week. (18:19 - 18:30) Right. You can't handle the pressure. And, um, I am not quite sure how we got there. (18:30 - 18:33) Right, right. Um. Me too. (18:34 - 18:47) But I am grateful for podcasts like this because it creates space for conversations like this. Right. For people who are feeling claustrophobic. (18:47 - 18:56) Hmm. In being combined to a Christian leadership culture that is really spiritually deformative. Hmm. (18:57 - 19:08) Like, so without what Judah's talking about, I don't even know how you become more like becoming more like Jesus. Take time. Right. (19:10 - 19:30) Literally. And if you don't, if you don't have that time, I don't know how that happens. And I think, um, conversation podcasts like this and conversations like this help people who are feeling claustrophobic and confined to those categories. (19:31 - 19:42) See a way out. It gives them this conversation kind of gives some people the courage to say, I'm going to do this differently. And I think I know that's what. (19:43 - 20:03) I have had to do, and I'm hoping that as people hear this, they'll do the same. Adam, can I go for it? Can I just add to that? I'm so passionate about this in the story of Mary and Martha. Ironically, who resents who? If you remember, Martha literally says to Jesus, hey, this ain't she literally says it's not right. (20:03 - 20:06) Right. It's actually there's no justice in this. This isn't fair. (20:06 - 20:22) Like, why is she in here? And what's amazing to me is one of the telltale signs that you are, are marginless living. You have an exercise preemptive living is you don't have to tell nobody. So if you're listening right now, you don't have to tell anybody. (20:22 - 20:34) But have you ever resented other people's margin? Yeah. Have you ever looked at somebody else and thought, well, sure must be nice. They got, oh, they got a nice house too. (20:34 - 20:36) Okay. Oh, they're fit. I bet they are fit. (20:36 - 20:41) They got time to go to the gym. I don't got time to go to the gym. And what's wild is worship. (20:41 - 20:59) If the juxtaposition is like, you know, work is Martha and worship is Mary, you know, rest and I don't know, work. And what's wild is when you're resting, resting is not the absence of work. It's the prioritization of where work falls. (20:59 - 21:02) It's putting work in its place. That's all. Yeah. (21:02 - 21:08) It's like saying, oh, yeah, it is. In fact, the irony is when you worship well, you work better. Yes, sir. (21:08 - 21:15) And you work smarter and you work with more passion. In fact, they'll say, Paul says, I labored more abundantly than you all. Wait a second. (21:15 - 21:22) It wasn't me. It was the spirit of God in me. That's rested work, which is totally different than striving and toiling. (21:22 - 21:31) And so I think sometimes I work really hard. Chelsea, she says, Judy, you tell people you don't work. I said, what don't feel like work? Because I feel so energized and impassioned to do it. (21:31 - 21:38) It feels like a passion project more than it feels like I'm checking in nine to five. But I've been there when I'm checking in nine to five. I grow in resentment. (21:38 - 21:44) And that is a sign. I just step back and go, wait a minute. And by the way, by the way, the anecdote is not what people think it is. (21:44 - 21:59) When they resent other people's rest and what they want to do is they want to go to somebody's house. They want to, you know, crack open a beverage, eat a pizza and talk. In my circles, we use other words, talk smack about other people and think that somehow that's going to make themselves feel better. (21:59 - 22:12) When in reality, the only antidote is the very thing you resent. Humble yourself and say, you know what, I actually need to do the very thing they're doing and the people that I resent. I need to go make some time. (22:13 - 22:20) The most spiritual thing might be go on a vacation. Literally, that might be the most spiritual thing you could do in your whole ministry. Yes. (22:20 - 22:26) I mean, going back to your point, right. Elijah is under a tree and he's like, I'm done. Yeah. (22:26 - 22:29) You know, kill me. Thank God he doesn't answer every prayer. That's right. (22:30 - 22:36) Some of us wouldn't be married. We'd have less kids. You know, but he's like, and what does he get? He gets a nap. (22:36 - 22:46) He wakes up to the smell of warm bread, baking over cold. I mean, what's better than a New York bakery? I mean, and cool water in a desert. Come on. (22:47 - 22:54) I mean, what did he really need? He didn't need. Yeah. He needed just rest. (22:54 - 22:58) A nap and some good food. A vacation. He needed a moment. (22:59 - 23:07) Here's what I'm thinking about with that story, though. Right. There is when you look at what leads up to that particular breakdown of Elijah. (23:07 - 23:17) It was like this period of like really intense business, opposition, spiritual warfare, Jezebel, like all these sorts of things. Right. Leading up to it. (23:17 - 23:28) And here's what I think has become the case. I feel like Elijah's experience leading up to that breakdown is the normal leader's pace. That's not. (23:28 - 23:38) So that was that was periodic. For the profit. I think that's normal for today's leader. (23:38 - 23:49) Yes. And because that is the case, I think we're more prone to those moments. And so we need to be more aggressive and more assertive. (23:49 - 24:02) So let's say like for me and for me, I know some people will hear this because let's say years ago, 10 years ago, I would have heard this for 2014. I would have heard this and I would have been like, oh, maybe they're wired different. Right. (24:02 - 24:05) Like I'll be like, I'm wired type. Right. Right. (24:05 - 24:13) Right. You know, I'll be like, OK, maybe they're less ambitious or maybe that's a maybe what they're describing is the personality type. You know what I mean? And what I had to see was. (24:13 - 24:24) All right. No, that's not necessarily the case. I had to see that proper rest and replenishment wasn't in the way of my goals. (24:25 - 24:28) It was the way. OK. To my goals. (24:28 - 24:31) Yeah. I had to have a reframe in that regard. And it's like. (24:31 - 24:38) So for me, it took faith for me to implement the principle of a Sabbath. OK, I'm actually going to take. Wow. (24:38 - 24:40) A day. It took faith to do that. Wow. (24:40 - 24:50) OK. I believe that God is going to be able to do more. In these six days with me rested and replenished. (24:50 - 24:54) Right. Than he would in seven without me doing this. Yes. (24:55 - 25:01) Now. Now, because of the nature of what I'm steward, one day. There we go. (25:02 - 25:05) Right. So one day was the ceiling. Now, one day is the floor. (25:05 - 25:28) Right. And I think it's important for leaders to discern, like, hey, are you in that? Like, are you are you living in a larger pace right now? Mm hmm. And if so, you've got to recognize the importance of balancing that out with a different kind of degree of rest and replenishment and not see it as something that's in the way of you accomplishing what God's put in your heart. (25:28 - 25:39) It is the way to accomplish what God's putting. Can I read what it says in Galatians three in the message Bible? I wrote this down this morning. Yeah. (25:39 - 25:42) Yeah. I tried to quote it. It was good. (25:42 - 25:44) It was good. You got the author. Right. (25:44 - 25:45) Yeah. You got the translator. Right. (25:46 - 25:53) Eugene Peterson puts it like this. The person this is. He claims that this is a good translation of the former end of Galatians three. (25:54 - 26:06) The person who lives in right relationship with God does it by embracing what God arranges for him. Doing things for God is the opposite of entering into what God does for you. So here's my question. (26:06 - 26:29) When do you schedule what God does for you? When do you schedule what God does for you? Because doing things for God is the opposite. I love the language of entering into what God does for you. And I have learned very quickly in this line of work that it is not popular nor celebrated to schedule when God does work. (26:29 - 26:36) Right. It is celebrated when we do works for God. And by the way, nobody's to blame. (26:36 - 26:45) We're natural, normal. It only makes sense. But man, everybody loves the podcast and the books and the preaching on rest and recuperation and Sabbath. (26:45 - 27:02) But we all go home Sunday night or Monday morning and nobody is putting it in the schedule because it takes courage. And Dharius and I, you know, I mean, Adam, you know, when you got to look at some of your buddies and they're like, what are you doing this Friday? You're like, well, Friday is my day off. Well, I thought Saturday was your day off, too. (27:02 - 27:10) Well, Friday and Saturday. Oh, OK, big dog must be nice. What do you do? I go on the lake. (27:10 - 27:14) Oh, you go on the lake. Wow. You know, it's the whole thing. (27:14 - 27:22) And if that doesn't affect you, then you're not human. It really starts to wear you down. So I appreciate the ability to even articulate this in a candid way. (27:22 - 27:26) No, it's fantastic. Judah, your son's with you. Yeah. (27:27 - 27:33) And, you know, mine are now 22, 21, 20. We had three under three. I don't know what we were thinking way back when. (27:33 - 27:41) You win now, though. But it's great now because I got one that just graduated and I got two at Penn State. And so and my kids still want to travel with me. (27:41 - 27:46) Wow. Somebody asked me, what's success? I was like, my kids still want to go on vacation. They still want to travel when I go away. (27:46 - 28:08) They still want to eat with daddy at good restaurants. How important is it to having your son on this trip? How important is it that you're protecting and you're discipling and you're leading your homes first, man? Oh, man. I mean, it's it's it's the thing that you got very few things in this world that will tell you the truth. (28:09 - 28:20) I barely tell myself the truth. You know, if I'm really honest and, you know, my wife understands that if you tell me the truth too much, I freak out. So she even she kind of curts the truth. (28:20 - 28:32) But or dances around it. Your children are this reflection you cannot deny. And that is both incredible and thrilling and also really challenging. (28:32 - 28:54) And I see that as Bishop Jake said this thing years ago, man. He said, he said, when you're dead, your kids will be one of the only things left that will prove you were here once. And then they'll ask, and why were you here? Right. And they'll be able to tell through your kids. So it's more than a priority. It's this baked in thing. (28:55 - 29:11) And here's I see it. God could have put me in any family and God could have given me any kids. But the the the imposed community that family is should tell us more about who we are and who we're called to love and serve. (29:11 - 29:22) Then I think we're giving credence and credit for. I think it's this baked in community that God's like, these are your people and that you don't get to pray about that. You know, these are your people. (29:22 - 29:47) And so of all kind of categories of culture in all subcultures of culture in church leadership of all leadership cultures and all different platforms, we should at least when it comes to the family part, that should be the thing we really need. Yes. That should be the thing that sets us apart, that we're not, you know, like the rhetoric is normal now. (29:47 - 29:53) It's like, you know, family first. I mean, they say that in succession. They say that in like parodies. (29:53 - 29:59) So that's not even cool anymore. But like, it's more than that. It's like the family is what God put me in. (30:00 - 30:08) And it is my ministry. And these are the people that are to matter most to me. And that is so obvious and clear and not debatable. (30:08 - 30:21) So it really is sacred and holy. And I know your family enough, Adam, and I just I love your family. And I've watched Dharius and his wife long enough to know that you both exemplify what I'm talking about. (30:22 - 30:26) It means a lot to me. Yeah, 100 percent. I think for me. (30:28 - 30:38) I keep mentioning in 2014, that was my life was just really unbalanced. And I was having a conversation with my pastor, PJ's Pancake House in Princeton, New Jersey. OK, on Nassau Street. (30:38 - 30:42) Yes, yes, yes. To this day. And he was just kind of helping me level set. (30:42 - 31:07) He looked over to me and I'm paraphrasing, but the essence of what he said is, he says, you don't want to spend the majority of your life giving the best of you. To people who mean the least to you. It wasn't that he was saying that the faith community wasn't important. (31:08 - 31:18) Of course. But what he was arguing is. You shouldn't give the best of you to those that will eventually leave. (31:18 - 31:22) Right. At the expense of those that will always stay. Yes. (31:23 - 31:38) And so from his angle for me wasn't just like the importance of the biblical priority of, you know, steward and family. Well, he was trying to protect me from regret. And my youngest son, he's 18. (31:40 - 31:50) We dropped him, he plays football at Syracuse. So we would get ready to fly up to Syracuse to drop him off. And I sent my I recorded a video and I sent it to my pastor. (31:51 - 31:59) I said, hey, I'm I'm not calling you because I don't want to cry. And I say, so don't you call me back. Don't you call me because I don't want to cry. (31:59 - 32:15) But I told him, I said in 2014, we said at PJ's Pancake House in Princeton, New Jersey, on Nassau Street. And you told me to make a pivot in terms of prioritizing. I say today I'm driving my son off. (32:15 - 32:20) I say I have grief because he's leaving. But I don't have regret. Yes. (32:20 - 32:22) Jesus. Yes. I don't have regret. (32:22 - 32:32) Yes. Because I did what you said at PJ's Pancake House. And so for me, it's that might sound a little selfish, you know what I mean? But it's like, no, it's not just for the glory of God. (32:34 - 32:41) Nah, man, these you don't want to give. You don't want to spend your whole life and the people that mean the most to you get the least from you. Yeah. (32:42 - 32:56) You've got 30 seconds to say one thing that you would say to everybody that's listening to say, hey, this is something you need to make sure you consider. This is something you should be thinking about applying to your life. And obviously this conversation has been incredibly rich. (32:56 - 33:07) And part of, I think, just the jadedness of the culture speaks to why you had to almost give that disclaimer there at the end. Like that somehow we have to justify. Wow. (33:08 - 33:16) Right. Like that somehow, like to your point, Earl, like we got to justify margins sometimes. Somehow we have to justify something as biblically sound and true as Sabbath. (33:16 - 33:27) Somehow we have to justify that, like, no, my wife and kids and like staying married matters and is important. Like when I leave all y'all, I'm going home to them. Yeah. (33:28 - 33:35) What would be the one thing you'd say to those people listening to me? It's really simple. One statement is all I got. And that is. (33:37 - 33:46) And let me give a disclaimer, I'm not talking about putting you over God, but properly prioritizing you is not selfish. It's stewardship. Yes, sir. (33:47 - 34:04) That's it. Man, then I'll just. I don't know if adding to that is the right way to say it, but put a period there and say your God, God of the universe is a father, not a coach. (34:06 - 34:20) And you are his kids, not his team. And P.S. Everyone on Earth are his kids. All of them, they're all his sons and his daughters, all of them on Earth. (34:21 - 34:28) Everybody that annoys you, that's his kids. And the father loves all his kids. Yeah, a lot. (34:29 - 34:43) And so I think that sticks out every day to me. And I think I would encourage people to embrace that in truth is a story of God. We have one father and one family and we're all his kids. (34:43 - 34:49) Yes. And so I want to get comfortable with my family. You know, so no thanks on the division. (34:49 - 34:58) I'll take the family card, you know, for five thousand. Alex, it has been my honor to sit with both of you. I love you. (34:58 - 35:05) I wrote you both on. You know, your success doesn't take anything away from. It's just it's just all love. (35:05 - 35:11) And I think, you know, the bottom line is leadership is lonely if you choose it to be. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But we can root for each other. (35:11 - 35:15) Yeah. And I hope that people are seeing that right now. And so I passed out of there. (35:15 - 35:22) So live from the preaching mass class, Dr. Dharius Daniels, Pastor Judith Smith, Faithful Stories. We love you. I hope you are blessed by this. (35:22 - 35:31) God bless you. Thank you for tuning in to the Faithful Stories podcast. We pray this episode gave you the encouragement you needed to continue on your journey. (35:32 - 35:58) The Faithful Stories podcast is brought to you by Faithly, an online community committed to empowering church leaders, pastors, staff and volunteers. The Faithly digital platform offers innovative and practical tools and resources to enhance connection, foster collaboration and promote growth within the church and ministry space. Remember to subscribe, rate and review our podcast to help reach more listeners like you. (35:58 - 36:10) Stay tuned for more uplifting tales from the frontlines of ministry on the Faithly podcast. Stay bold, stay faithful and never underestimate the power of your own story.