A Sinner With a Conscience - David Tyree

00:01 - Speaker 1 It's hard to abandon your sense of self-authenticity or value system. Right, what you believe is what makes you who you are, and the moment that you just begin to violate that, it brings a torment and that's in Christ or out of Christ. You know I was a sinner with a conscience. Right, I tell people I was a greed. I mean like, I created my own laws. I was my own law, but I had a conscience. I didn't enjoy hurting people. That was one thing I didn't enjoy. Hello, my name is David Tyree, Super Bowl XLII champion, author of the Greatest Catch in Super Bowl History, lover of Jesus, entrepreneur getting great things done, and this is my Faithly Stories. 00:38 - Speaker 2 Welcome to Faithly Stories, the podcast that brings you inspiring tales from conversations with church leaders as they navigate the peaks and valleys of their faith journeys through their ministry work and everyday life. Join us as we delve into their challenges, moments of encouragement and answered prayers. The Faithly Stories podcast is brought to you by Faithly, an online community committed to empowering church leaders, pastors, staff and volunteers. Learn more at faithlyco. Get ready to be uplifted and inspired as we unveil the heart of faith through stories from the front lines of ministry. On the Faithly Stories podcast. 01:20 - Speaker 3 So could you tell me how your faith journey started? 01:23 - Speaker 1 Man. My faith journey started in 2004. I was I mean, there's enough leading up to it, but I'll say the way it started was I think I was I became a broke. I became acquainted with my real brokenness as I entered the National Football League in 2003. The National Football League in 2003. 01:46 And you know, as an athlete you can hide a lot of things behind success, discipline and, honestly, a well-shaped sense of purpose. As a young man, and I think my arrival in New York City, marquette getting drafted, I kind of lost the safety nets of that calendar. As a professional, and while I had success on the field, I was really fledgling and failing from a character perspective. And I will say that my rookie field, I was really fledgling and failing from a character perspective. And I will say that my rookie year I was drawn to the faith for the first time ever. I was not raised in a religious home at all, so I call myself good old grade A American heathen and I think I just the idea of being in position to fulfill a dream was pretty amazing. A chapel service intrigued me. I made a confession of faith, but I really had no desire to change and it was. It was simple. 02:32 After getting fined for ten thousand dollars at the end of the season. 02:37 All my while, drunken late, you know late, showing up late to work, I figured, you know, I got the best bud. I might as well sell it Came back from Mardi Gras and went to Harlem, picked up a pound I think it was a pound of purple haze, and I got pulled over, you know, in Fort Lee coming across the bridge, and that was kind of like my road to Damascus, and I just, you know, as I'm in that jail cell, I was kind of replaying all of my folly, all my foolishness, and I just cried out to God for the first time in sincerity, said God, all I know is I need you and if you allow me to keep my job, I'd appreciate that too. And so that was like the call. And yeah, within a matter of weeks I found myself broken in a church and literally I left that church. I was in a fetal position. I left that church and I was never drank again, I never smoked again and I was married three months later. So I had a radical encounter with Christ. 03:35 - Speaker 3 Where did you grow up? 03:36 - Speaker 1 Montclair, new Jersey. Well, east Orange and Montclair, new Jersey. So I'm an Essex County kid as a Jersey kid and East Orange is definitely East Orange is definitely a super you know rough urban neighborhood and I think I had a quick little stint in St Thomas, started fifth grade there and you know things didn't work out. My uncle kind of just flipped the script on us and so I finished fifth grade and moved into Montclair, which is a budding suburb but super diverse. I call it authentic diversity. You have poor Black people but super diverse. I call it authentic diversity. You have poor black people. You went to school with all kinds of people but there wasn't really any deep racial tension. You played on, you know, on sports teams, felt like a amazing black town, but at the same time you went to school with everybody. Changed my life One hundred percent. Mount Clinton, jersey changed my life. So yeah, I'm an Estes County kid going through. So yeah, it was a place where you could see yourself. I remember I got in. 04:35 We never, it was never an official gang, but I think middle school was like you know, got arrested twice and I think it was just those kinds of communities and I realized, I realized, man, I don't gotta do this. It was kind of like you know, you come from a spot like east orange that's the naughty by nature days in the 90s and things like that um, but montclair was like you know, we had our own. You know, three of the three of the outlaws were from montclair, so tupac and outlaws, we were death row east, so montclair was like that kind of town. So yeah, but at the end of the day I think there was some sobriety as I was realizing, you know, I could do something different. That's where I locked in on sports. 05:14 - Speaker 3 Did you have any like faith influences or did you have friends that believed when you're growing up? 05:18 - Speaker 1 There was a couple. You know, like I heard the terminology saved before you know I didn't really know what that means, but I will say this my aunt was the church-going aunt. I had an aunt. If I went to see my cousins and this is mostly during my historian days my cousins lived in Newark, so right off South Orange Avenue, north Munn, I felt like I grew up partially in Newark. We spent so much time there, but she was the. If you go see Aunt Bert, you go on to Sunday school, so and Aunt Bert definitely plays a part when I do get born again. 05:54 But in relation to, like, my home, yeah, it was a single parent home. Moms was doing her best, my dad was around and he was amazing, but when you just the lack of presence really does, you know, create a deficit when you talk about, you know, a family and, even more so, a young man. I grew up, I had two older sisters, so faith wasn't, that, just wasn't my mom's paradigm. My house, honestly, my house was like the spot for all the tomfoolery, you know so. You know I grew up. My mom bought my alcohol all the time. 06:25 Foolery, you know, so you know I grew up. My mom bought my alcohol she bought. You know, we started drinking 14, 15, smoking 15, smoking weed and women. So those are my traditional vices. But yeah, you know, by the time I'm a sophomore junior, every week it's a blunt to the head and a half a pint of Jack Day was in the 40. I mean, that was pretty much a weekly routine and my mom had the worldly wisdom of I'd rather than be in the house acting a fool than just be out in the street acting a fool, something I would never prescribe, but thank God it didn't cost me. So yeah, faith was kind of like distant and no kid is choosing to go to church. It was like I might have went to church one time with a friend, but no, it wasn't like that. 07:04 - Speaker 3 I only ask because I realized like listening to a lot of people's stories even though there's like this moment where you meet and encounter Christ, like there's always seeds in your life, when you look back, and so I was just curious as to that. 07:17 - Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah, you know, like I think examples go longer. You know they're more impressionable than we can imagine. But at the same time, when you think about a young kid growing up, if you don't have a constant voice and a mirror to really reflect the image of Christ, it becomes really challenging. My kids are growing up in the exact opposite paradigm than I did, so I've been able to kind of see some fruit in that regard. But even so I really consider God's mercy along the way. But you know my aunt, she was committed. I will say she was extremely committed. She was a spirit filled woman. You know we never heard her pray in tongues or pray in the spirit, but that was something we began to see later, but it was. I do believe the seeds are 100% there. When I think about growing up as a kid in the 80s, 90s and you know the turbulence, inner city, you know like that, those structures and television and cable I was completely locked in on every rap, hip hop. You know athlete, you know all the traditional vices. I certainly fell into. 08:25 - Speaker 3 So what sparked you to love football? 08:27 - Speaker 1 You know, I think, moving into the town it was, it was, it was it was definitely different in the fact that East Orange like I said, you know it was, it was I actually was in a solid part in East Orange. You could always find trouble around the corner, but when I moved into Montclair, that's what the kids did. So it was a social thing back then and I felt, you know, totally different. In the days Athlete, you know, everybody's got to bust their kids and every parent's getting their kid to every program. I think that's what kids did. So of course you know you can hoop at the park. But when it came down to, you know, by the time I settled in to finish up fifth grade, it was very clear all the kids were playing Cobras, Montclair Cobras. They didn't even have PAL or, you know, pop Warner, it was Montclair Cobras and a guy named Howard Finney started a program. 09:15 So you know, when I get a chance to tell my story, I kind of point it back to this move, this when my mom might not have known this strategic move to this amazing, diverse, you know suburb right next to East Orange. That was literally right up the street. I could ride my bike down in East Orange and go see my grandmother. But that was it. It was just social. I was a scrub the first year and tried out for JV the next year and you know. So it's just kind of progressive. But honestly it's just, you know, to get to a physical game, it was something that was, you know, gladiator ish to it that I was drawn to. 09:52 - Speaker 3 Yeah, I tell all like moms all the time too, when they have boys and they're like so rowdy, I'm like no, they just need to exert energy. So it's like give them a sport, you know. 10:01 - Speaker 1 And I think you know, as we're kind of emerging as parents, most of us kind of see some of the missing elements of just being outside running around. You know, and you know ADHD is, I'm sure, I know it's a real thing, but half of our ADHD was cured in the 80s just running around outside. 10:18 - Speaker 3 That's exactly what I say. I said like I didn't have like internet or a computer so I just played outside all day so day. So that was like my mom's away time for me while she did stuff at home. 10:26 - Speaker 1 But people are like home all the time yeah, man, you know I think they call us what the latchkey kids. But and you know that was the hardest part of my parenting journey is like the kids. I send my kids outside and they come back in 15 minutes. I'm like what is your problem? Why are you here? You're destroying my house. And, yeah, definitely different. We've done parenting seminars through the years but it's like, yeah, we have seven kids but totally different contrasts and lifestyles and opportunities. But I think there's certain things that make for better humans and what we desire for our kids for sure. 11:04 - Speaker 3 So when did you know the nfl would be like a real dream? And the reason why I asked is because I realized, like god, like gives us this dream, not necessarily to make it a final destination, but a direction, and then, of course, of that path like we change yeah, I think that's a great observation. 11:19 - Speaker 1 I think my dream was to be a division 1a uh player. It amazing. I had to dream a new dream when I had a son. So you know the birth of my oldest son, taon, who turns 23 this month, you know. But you know, yeah, 21 years old, I'm about to bring a child into the world and I just wanted the best for him. And I think you know, I credit, you know God and His sovereignty. You know, I credit, you know God and His sovereignty. 11:46 You know this sin and this sin ended up being a promulgating factor in me dreaming a new dream. And it was just out of a desire to be a good father. So when I even look at my entire, so much of my journey in Christ has been rooted in being a father and my road to maturity, my road to selflessness, has been in that vehicle. So the NFL I'd never felt like I was conquering a throne at college, so it just wasn't really that much of a thought. And but yeah, it was just like man, if I could just get an opportunity to provide generously for this, this little human, I'm going to bring it to the world and that was certainly the seed, and it's amazing when you know there's so much detail in sports psychology. I would go to the line of scrimmage, you know, all throughout my senior year with an image of my son in my head. You know, just with the hope to be the best and create an opportunity. And, by grace of God, it came to pass. Did you get? 12:43 drafted to be the best and create an opportunity and by grace of God it came to pass. Did you get drafted? I did, I did. It wasn't. You know it's weird when you kind of hear it. You know, for sports fans you know you can get drafted as high as the fourth round and to not at all. And the truth is it's actually a real thing, it's. You just never know who. There'll be one team that loves you. 13:01 Obviously I had character issues. I found out later that they had like a D character grade on me and I deserved that. I might have deserved the death. Like I said, I was definitely wild and you know I called myself a functioning alcoholic. I drank every weekend, I was a blackout artist and most of that was like my dark days in Syracuse. Obviously I drank from a young age. 13:22 But yeah, so to get drafted, that was what they actually told me. You know it's like, yeah, you can be drafted as high as a four. I'm like no, I didn't have a combine, I didn't go to an all-star game, so I was definitely low on the totem pole and just getting a shot was kind of my thought. So when I heard my you know, when I got the phone call from the Giants, it was pretty cool and even as they were kind of keeping me on the line, I ended up getting a call from the Lions, but they had the first pick of the seventh round, so it was dope All of a sudden. I'm hot, I'm like yo, I got the Lions on the line, yeah, you know, and Abedem's like nah, we got you here, you know. And I was like now, we got you here, you know, last pick of the six rounds. So it was, it was, it was amazing. Next thing, you know, I'm not even going anywhere. It's like a 20 minute ride from a crib. 14:11 - Speaker 3 That's awesome. Looking back, do you feel like you were coping with something, with the drugs and alcohol? 14:19 - Speaker 1 Oh yeah, man, I think I think every form of addiction is about pain. I think there's some underlying pain. For me, I think the deeper root cause was more, you know, the rejection, fear, rejection, the pain that can be associated with not knowing who you are, not belonging. You know, I think a lot of my sinful, poor decisions were just rooted in this desire to be alone and not being okay with who I am. You know, and, and I think that's where so much, especially when it comes to different forms of addiction, it's usually the need to erase or eradicate true pain, perceived pain, emotional pain or, you know, a lack of identity, right, an identity crisis in some way, shape or form. There's a spectrum to all of that. So I think my journey, just you know, like you know, it was. It was easy to present myself Right, drown out the frontal lobe, and I don't have to worry about the decision. Somebody a girl says no, I'll go on to the next one, and you know, and I certainly wasn't altogether shy, but I had those fears, you know, like you know, talking about the spirit of fear. So, yeah, that was part of the journey and I think just that being such a norm in my generation. Risk was alcohol. Now, risk today is, you know, online, you know, you know. So I think you know it looks. It looks different today, but yeah, I was definitely in them streets. 15:46 I was drawn to, you know, to you know, like I said, I think all these snares manifest different but was fortunate. You know that I had an amazing father who was very supportive. But the lack of, you know, when I think about the powerful role of a father, they give identity, you know, they give direction. There's so much that only can that is wired to come, you know, from the father, and so some of those things just lacked. You know he was I call my dad my hero, not because he was perfect but because he did his best. And so just the fracture of a family really, you know, creates a lot of gaps for the enemy to get in there. And he struggled, you know. I mean like I had a drinking substance abuse driven home so it was just easy to get in on those vices. 16:37 - Speaker 3 So, um, yeah, my god grace, create that avenue to overcome yeah, it's like a strange feeling as you get older you realize oh wait, I'm older than when my dad like I remember my dad and so like I'm like, oh okay, he was literally trying his best even though it wasn't best, for like I didn't feel like it was the best, and so you have this like better compassion and understanding, right. 16:58 - Speaker 1 Yeah, it's a journey. It takes a man to appreciate a man. You know, it takes becoming a man to appreciate what a man has to endure. You know, when you grew up in a divorced home, it's just, hey, you're not here and we've had a good relationship, but it's like this hidden bitterness underlined, we never had a contentious relationship and, honestly, because he wasn't an authoritarian, you know like, he wasn't, you know like. 17:24 So I think my dad was trying to make up for missing time. You know he was a gift giver. Take us for ice cream, it was. You know like, when you, when you have this allotted time, you're just trying to make the most of it. So it was, it was, it was always good, it was always. You know he was, he was, he was the better cook. My mom was a really good cook too. You know like he had some things I couldn't get at home. 17:49 So, yeah, I think, when I think about who he was, and especially as my heart got healed when I became born again, the desire for that relationship. Of course, you know he's not, he's not born again, but he's just an admirable. I am my father's weird. You watch these things come to, come to fruition. So I just had this amazing admiration for who he was as a man, doing his best to serve his family and, honestly, there were probably some opportunities that he could have took professionally, but he wanted to be close to his family. That meant a lot. That could have been the saving, saving grace of my own life. 18:21 - Speaker 3 How's your relationship with your father today? 18:23 - Speaker 1 Amazing, amazing. You know I'm always trying to find a way to spend more time. But having seven kids and I've had, you know, I've been making disciples and loving God and you know I think I would have hoped for him to kind of like invade my life a little more, but it's actually, you know, yeah, that's backwards. It's like, oh, you know, go go, find a way to get in your dad's space. So in light of, I think that's probably one of the biggest tensions of wanting to maximize the relationship, be with him. But but at the same time I got so much going on raising up seven kids, my own work, full time and just trusting God with these different functions, you know, as I'm moving into maturity as a man myself and raising my own family. But there's never been any especially. You know, just, there was a lot of healing in my heart, easy to forgive, thank God, I never had forgiveness and bitterness issues and I think it's just been appreciation. You know, like man I've been, I've been really fortunate to have two parents who meant well for me, regardless of their lack, and I think, you know, compassion was able to well up in light of the fact that I didn't have this deep destructive. 19:38 You know, I was able to be responsible for my own sin. Like, yeah, you did this, they didn't tell you to do it. Like, yeah, you did this, they didn't tell you to do it. So, yes, I think, you know, I think that Adam and every single one of us, the Adamic nature, is always looking for someone to blame. You know, it's always looking to pass off. You know, you know, this woman you gave me, you know, like who can I pass this off to? And I think if we could just be honest about our own nature, our own sin, and own it then God can find that avenue to come in and save us. 20:14 - Speaker 3 Yeah, I completely agree. I think once my mind shift, changed from like oh, you're the cause of my pain, to like okay, you know what? Let me learn how to deal with this pain right and process it, because I think, like too often, our world is like constructed in a way where we're either avoiding it or managing it. But like managing it also doesn't work, because then you're just like continually doubling down on the the solution yeah, well said, and I think that's the whole thing is like. 20:37 - Speaker 1 It's a powerful thing that in salvation is not just forgiveness or going to heaven, it's, it's the reality that he wants us whole right. He wants us healed, right, healing. He wants us healed, right, I'm healed and I'm being healed. I think this Trinity salvation is a, the salvation itself is a Trinity I accept and I believe and I'm saved. I confess and I believe and I'm saved and I'm being saved and in the end I'll be saved. 21:03 I've always loved this radical dynamic about God and his exponential ways that are so far beyond mine. But, like man, I'm free, I'm a wreck, I'm healed, but healing has to manifest as I'm still needing some things. So I think it's all a beautiful expression of reality that God has so much more in store for us and the journey is just allowing the physician to take that scalpel and get to those painful places at different times or junctures in the journey. Sometimes it's just terrifying. I think we just got to be honest. Sometimes, like man I'm, I can't believe I'm this broken. But if we can embrace the beauty in it, then that's when it becomes a joyful journey. 21:57 - Speaker 3 Yeah, something I say now is that, like, the truth does hurt, but the pain is supposed to set you free, you know. 22:02 - Speaker 1 Fantastic, fantastic, and I think that's you know, that's kind of you know it is. I embrace the journey so much and I guess, for lack of better terms, the athlete mindset has prepared me for a lot in relation to like, if I could suffer for glory, how could I not for my own glory, how could I not suffer for his glory? Right, pain and suffering is not something that is, that is a turnoff for me. Right, it's like I know we're not necessarily signing up for it, but I've seen the reward of suffering. I've suffered for success. How much, not more, for my Savior. So obviously it brings me great joy when I consider what Paul says the sufferings of this world are not considered worthy to be compared to the glory which shall be revealed. And I think these are the things that we can kind of ease our way into as we're young in the faith. Yeah, we want the victory, we want God to make everything better right now, and I think, as we grow, there's tremendous joy. That's why joy exceeds happiness. 23:05 - Speaker 3 Understanding radically changed when I realized, oh wait, pain and suffering isn't necessarily a bad thing. Like I don't like it, right. But if there's a purpose and I think, a lot of times people just don't understand the purpose Because when you're in it like you have no idea. It's so confusing. Like afterwards, you know. 23:20 - Speaker 1 Yeah, that peaceable fruit of righteousness, that's right. Yeah, righteousness, that's right. Yeah, afterwards for sure, and uh, and I think you know the process and I think you know scripturally we'll call it sanctification, so many, there's a process that is going to bring forth a reward or a product. Right, you know, even in the marketplace, you know there's a process to produce in the product. So, at, you know, at the end of the day, there's some, there's some tugging, there's some meeting, there's some meeting, there's some planning, there's some pain that's being produced to bring forth that product. 23:51 And in God's eyes, we are the product, you know, we are the work, his workmanship, and so that's the whole thing that you know he's just chiseling away. So, yeah, I think that's that's the whole thing. Is he's just better, he's better. And there are many different junctures of things that I don't understand, but there are. There's enough that he does give us to understand that we could actually just kind of find agreement. You know, and that's why I think, if we can just believe him, belief is, you know, that's that's what really leads to belonging, you know like, and then I think that that's what really brings peace and liberty, just knowing that I belong, belong here. 24:26 - Speaker 3 Yeah, believing is also hard because you've got to experience it. So I think there's this spectrum where you have to dream it and hope it and then just hold on to it until it becomes true, so kind of like your journey to the NFL you thought about it, thought about it and then you got the call. You're like oh snap this is real. Now it's real. 25:03 - Speaker 1 Yeah, it's wild and it's wild and it's true. You know, as a young man I never really considered myself much of a dreamer. I had kind of I've to have a deeper understanding of you. Know how he gives us the desires of our heart. Most of us we think that scripture is saying that God is going to give us what we desire. And it actually says he gives us the desires of our heart. 25:24 Not just recently it just blew my mind mind, oh, man, man, the desire that's in me is what God has given. So I'm talking about the good, you know. Hopefully we can identify the good, righteous desire as children of God. You know what are the desires, right? So maybe that we're not quenching. Something that God has actually put in us and I think that's a powerful thing about God is like man. He's giving us desire, he's crafting something in us that only he can give us Right A will and a desire for something that is maybe even beyond our own understanding. That's a dream. Am I like what you know? I think that's something for us as Christians, because most of us, when we see it, it's like what I do desire. God is obligated to give, and it's it just. It typically doesn't work out that way. 26:08 - Speaker 3 that's why we experience a lot of disappointment yeah, I think part of it, for me at least. Like growing up, like you get bombarded by these advertising right, and it tells you like what this american dream is right, and so it looks good because people seem really happy, so you want to pursue that, but like when I was pursuing that, like I felt off. Do you remember the movie boiler room? 26:28 absolutely, it was gm his name, so I I literally worked in that office in the island, like a kind of like that, and so I felt like weird just trying to trick people to give me their social security, like take out these loans, and I was like this isn't me, you know, even though they're making a lot of money. So like I think what you're saying is like there's this thing in me, like if I do it or I don't do it, I feel off, I don't feel myself. 26:52 - Speaker 1 Yeah, it's true, I know we have every tagline out these days, you know all the information's out, but you know it's hard to abandon your sense of self-authenticity or value system, right, what you believe is what makes you who you are, and the moment that you just begin to violate that, it brings a torment. And that's in Christ, out of Christ. I was a sinner with a conscience, right, I tell people I was a great. I mean I created my own laws, I was my own law, but I had a conscience. I didn't enjoy hurting people. That was one thing I didn't enjoy, you know. 27:28 And so, yeah, I think you expressed that great. It's like man, there's this true reality of, hey, man, there's this thing that we have desires and of course the enemy would attempt to steal every dream, destroy every sense of hope that every human has in the earth. But you know God would have a greater desire for us and obviously that needs to be redeemed. You know sin is the enemy of the soul, the enemy of the humanity, and you know just desperately trying to, you know, wreck everyone. 28:04 - Speaker 3 So the redemptive process is so powerful, I think now you know you can even see it in people's life before they come to christ, but obviously we're hopeless apart from christ so, like a couple of weeks ago, I was like front squatting and I screwed up my back and the reason why I bring this up is because I didn't realize how much like a low grain, like consistent sharp pain, messes with your mind and your mood and I'm curious as to like because pain management is a thing in the nfl right you guys get hurt all the time like how do you deal with the physical pain while like being healed internally with the you know spiritual pain? 28:39 - Speaker 1 yeah, yeah, you know, I, I think there's obviously there's a warrior mindset that goes along with, you know, athletes, and of course I'll give a top. Mindset that goes along with you know athletes, and of course I'll give a top, not the football, maybe not. You know we're up there, I think we're. We're about the mission or about the reward Meaning, like you know, when you have a soldier's mindset, the promise far exceeds the pain. Right, it's the reward in every soldier, every athlete playing their part. 29:09 And I think what's unique about football, it's one of the few sports that has this oneness element. Whereas you know every play, you're looking for 11 guys to do their job and operating as one. So, even when you consider the church or the body of Christ, it's one of the few sports that actually brings that. You know, every now and then you actually see just one guy mess up on his job and it costs the church or the body of Christ. It's one of the few sports that actually brings that. Every now and then you actually see just one guy mess up on his job and it costs the whole play. So, regardless of who's the strongest or who's the weakest, everyone matters. 29:38 So I think, when it comes to pain. Number one it's about performance. If I can't contribute, there is no glory. If I can't get out there, and these are all powerful metaphors of life. You've got to get in the game, right. You've got to get on the field, you've got to play your part, and pain is a part of the process that is going to produce something powerful. But you know, I hate all these Ps. But yeah, it's about the reward. 30:08 So I think you just, you know it's not even for us. It's like can I write like? You know, we always distinguish the difference between being hurt and being injured, right? It's like, well, that's the human experience. You're going to take blows. Are you injured? Do we need to pull you out the gate? Right? And I think that's that's. 30:25 That's hard for so many people who have a weaker mindset, because pain will tell you. You know, I remember very early, you know it was early in me understanding how God would begin to speak to me. He would randomly introduce a word that I wasn't familiar with. I heard the word indolence one day. You know, basically the avoidance of pain, and I think that's where so many people are. 30:47 Because it hurts, we want to avoid it, but it's, you know, it's obviously central to the human experience. We can't avoid pain. Eventually you're going to fall, right, and it doesn't mean that you're signing up for pain, right, but at the end of the day, something just hurt, right, it's the body's response to being alive, right, pain lets you know you're alive and I think it's these lessons that are in thread in life. But you can overcome. So, yeah, am I hurt, am I injured? And I think, at the end of the day is, yeah, you realize how resilient God has fashioned us to be as overcomers more than conquerors. Has fashioned us to be as overcomers more than conquerors. And so, yeah, you know, getting you know, having a game like football brings all these things into a context way ahead of schedule, and there may be some, because, again, most people don't have a mission. You know that at that younger age they have, maybe they haven't found their thing that allows them to embrace the suffering or embrace the process. 31:47 - Speaker 3 Yeah, I love the NFL, I love the shield. I'm a Jet fan so I know pain Well. 31:51 - Speaker 1 I think we're hitting one of those stages where we're hanging out together. If you're in Hades, we're in a compartment of Sheol right now. 31:58 - Speaker 3 Yeah, it's not MetLife, it's SadLife. 32:01 - Speaker 1 SadLife. Yeah, I was telling you, brother, it's getting real sad. I'm like Lord. I think we need to pray differently for New York City. It is definitely something. 32:12 - Speaker 3 So I got to ask about the catch More in the context of like, because I see this in like acting too, and actors they get like typecasts because of this one thing everyone remembers right. So like one I'm sure like you felt amazing because you won the super bowl. Exactly where I was when that happened, it's like a 9-11 moment. I was like snap. But for you, like afterwards, you just it's like the thing you know, like so, like how do you feel about that? And like how have you kind of leveraged it or did you like shy away from it? 32:43 - Speaker 1 yeah, I think the only thing I didn't do is leverage it properly. You know, like I didn't have the tools or the resources or the team at the time. You know I'm still trying to leverage it. I'm like who's going to help, you know? 32:54 But honestly, it's been, it's been the it's, it's my, it's a memorial from God, it's a not only is it a gift from God, not only is it a powerful miracle on so many different levels, but it was prophesied at the beginning of the season. It was prophesied the night before the game. It was such a heavenly moment and I think so. For me it means so much. It's my Isaac, for lack of better terms. It was something that I literally came back from Arizona and I gave back to God and I said, Lord, all I want is more of you. So, when I consider what it means to me, it's a sacred gift from God. 33:37 The game that basically raised me up and gave me identity in the fifth season of my NFL career and all of my desire to accomplish something, to achieve something that I couldn't in my own strength. 33:51 God made, he allowed me to be remembered as a part of the game of the NFL, like at the end of the day, I'm going to be a part of the NFL story. That's something that I can give God glory for for the rest of my life. So it means so much to me in so many different ways because I know that God is the one who orchestrated it and allowed me to be a part of this narrative that has given me so much joy, peace and purpose. So I'm just grateful that I can and at the end of the day, it's the gift that keeps on giving. So I'd be like eventually I'm going to figure out the leveraging thing, but I have had this tremendous privilege of being a son of God and that being a powerful avenue to share the gospel in so many different places and make disciples and advance the kingdom of heaven. 34:39 - Speaker 3 Do you remember the play in the huddle and what you guys were thinking? Did you run the route or was it like he just saw you? Because I think you were double covered too yeah, it was uh, 76 y sale. 34:53 - Speaker 1 What half right? 76 max y cell union. So, yeah, four wide receivers in the game. I'm running a deep post taking the top off the coverage. They could and actually they had the perfect coverage lined up to throw the post over the top to me. But theoretically I call it a dummy rock. You're taking the top off the cover and Steve Smith's coming under and obviously, man, thank God the offensive line chose not to block anybody because it was fantastic, it was great. 35:24 I always say, you know, eli became Vanilla Vic and I'm the black guy who can't jump. It's great. I had like a 31-inch vertical. My vertical was so bad they gave me an extra shot at my pro day. So it was like miracles on top of miracles. And here's this no-name wideout who's up against Rodney Harrison for this iconic moment? And yeah, you couldn't make this whole storyline up. And then, yeah, it wasn't necessarily double covered, but yeah, santi Samuels back there, who's an arguable Hall of Famer, and Rodney Harrison and it's just me. Who's this guy? And next thing, you know, I don't even know that it's on my helmet. So that part was amazing because I didn't see it until I actually got back to the hotel. 36:10 But what I always enjoyed about it is immediately after. You know, rest in peace. Steve Sable, nfl films. He immediately said this is the greatest play in Super Bowl history, undoubtedly the greatest play. So I said well, listen, steve Sable has spoken. I agree, I happen to think it's the greatest player in NFL history, but I'll take. I think the NFL ranked it number three overall of the top NFL. You know, top played in NFL history, so I'm grateful. 36:37 - Speaker 3 Yeah, as long as the NFL's around, people will remember your name. It's so wild. 36:41 - Speaker 1 Yeah, I mean it's definitely like one of those. You know, I don't have any feelings of insecurity about it because it was. You know, I grew up in the Milli Vanilli era, so when you talk about one-hit wonders, I wasn't even supposed to be in the nfl and not only is that far from my narrative, but yeah, I was an nfl special teams rookie of the year. I was an all pros special teams player. I won a super bowl of greatest character super bowl history in seven seasons and then I, just like I said, I got it. I got a chance to do it all in seven seasons and I mean he's marked by God's grace. He's marked my life with tremendous favor and at the end of the day, you know says you know a good, you know and I'm able to walk away with a good name. You know which is better than silver and gold. So you know, to be God's kid is the greatest. To be marked in these places of influence and be able to reenter conversations that I probably don't even belong in is amazing. 37:42 - Speaker 3 Yeah, something again I'm learning this year too is like what's better than fame or fortune is reputation. 37:48 - Speaker 1 Oh, man, and I'm telling you, an enemy will do anything that he can to mar it. But you know, and what exceeds that is integrity and character, right to mar it. But you know, and what exceeds that is integrity and character right. Because at the end of the day, our value is determined by what others say, but you know, our identity is determined by what God says. So you know, we build our life, you know, integrously around the, you know the testimony and the image of Christ and there's no greater value. 38:14 I was, you know, sharing with some people about what was significant about the NIL ruling, because what roles sports play in our culture is that your identity is the highest value that you have. So our highest value will always be in the name, image and likeness of Jesus Christ. That's really where your truest value is, is that you were born in the image and likeness of God. Man was created in the image and likeness of God. Man was created in the image and likeness of God, but only through the name of Jesus Christ can it be restored to its greatest value. That was the revelation of NIL. That you know. Obviously, in sports, yeah, I wish I could just get a cut, but I've had my moments. I'm a father now. 38:57 - Speaker 3 So what was your transition like coming out of the NFL and what are you doing now? 39:02 - Speaker 1 Man, transition is challenging, but for me it was super stable because I was secure in Christ. So I think I had an amazing you know, stable in my faith, secure in my identity, but I didn't have the career mapped out the way that I wanted. I worked with a good friend of mine who was a broken Christian in the financial space and after about a year and a half of kind of like not having a clearly defined role, I knew I just like this, isn't it? I felt like being a fish out of water because there's so much detail. Every minute of my day is on an itinerary. 39:39 In sport and, you know, in entrepreneurship you kind of eat what you kill and I wasn't necessarily trying to mine out my Rolodex, you know. So it was a weird experience. But, yeah, I found my way back into athlete development, which was really amazing because, you know, from innate leadership skills and being able to work with a population that I was familiar with had immediate value. So I worked for two years in the NFL office, six years as the director of player development with the Giants and in 2020, I just kind of found myself out like a fish out of water again. Man, it was, you know. You know it was definitely. They're like wildernesses. You know, these transitions, they're their own form of a wilderness where you're going to be tested, and I think the whole point of a testing is that you're proving that there's not just a lesson, but who am I and it's not? You know, these siftings are producing something right. So what's in us comes to the surface. Pressure brings forth the draws, and I think that's the refining process that God is trying to bring us through. So, so I think the transition is difficult for everyone at different stage, I was emotionally stable, you know when I think about where my name was and what my brand for lack of a better term was. 40:53 You know, the road to humility has been my journey and I think I never wanted glory, I never wanted the world's glory. I just really desire Christ and I really had a dove's eye pursuit for Christ and his kingdom. So I was just going low and I think you know, as this 2020 kind of moving into this entrepreneur space, giving the space to really be present for my family, I've had a lot of commitment to ministry in a very hidden way for lack of better terms like really organic belly-to-belly life, disciple-making, and it's been life-giving man. It's just like no glory. When you're really doing this to see Christ revealed in your own life and see Christ revealed in others, then it's just about how you can serve God and serve people. And I wasn't trying to necessarily build my own kingdom, but it's produced a lot of fruit. So I think you know, I think this journey and being in a marketplace is like man you really have to have. You know, when you don't have a bunch of different skill sets now, you have to learn how to build this. 42:00 You know, mobilize a network, and I think that's where I've been at these last few years. I've been in a more entrepreneurial space. That's led to the Catch Camp. You know I had my podcast going for a couple of years and you know I felt like the Lord was just kind of bringing me back into storytelling and you know we'll see where that ends up in the next couple of years. We had a storefront that started as Clean Juice, as a franchise system with the Tyrese table, because you know we ended up losing in this franchise deal, so we got some you know some litigation there. So yeah, it was just. 42:33 You know, these last few years have been a proven ground unlike any other and I have loved it in relation to the journey was just. You know, these last few years have been a proven ground unlike any other, and I have loved it in relation to the journey. You know I said you know I've never really perceived losses, they're just lessons. And I tell people my thing is, all the ways that I'm not like Christ, it cost me and that's what I've learned. Every way in which I have not been like Christ at every season or juncture has been it's cost me. 42:57 And I think one of my journeys to maturity at this stage has been shrewdness. You know like there's been a great sense of naivety as a young athlete. You don't know so much and so I don't always say like man just taking advantage of in some ways. Yes, but the accountability measures I'm a high ownership, high accountability. I'm like I didn't ask the right questions. Right, I didn't know what questions to ask, but that also prepared me on how to serve people, how to disciple people, how to mentor people. 43:27 Here are the questions you need to ask, you know, a financial advisor. Here's the questions you need to ask a lawyer. You know, you know like. So I think the journey to maturity in this juncture and and navigating has really positioned me to flourish in ways where I feel confident that I can do anything. So yeah, it's been. You know, transition is definitely one of my sweet spots. When I, when I do speaking or consulting at this, at this juncture, with you know, my company, it's just because I've endured and you know I haven't necessarily mastered, but I've really have a great sense of experience, wisdom that has equipped me to. 44:02 - Speaker 3 You know be able to empower others to excel. So how did like? What have you been learning about accountability as a father of seven kids? 44:11 - Speaker 1 Oh boy, yeah, I, you know it goes back to every, every way in which I'm not like. Christ cost me, and I think the journey is you know it's such a sacred journey parent, you know, parenting, and and I think, by God's grace, we've my, my oldest son like and he's, he's, on fire for God. These last year and a half two years my two oldest sons have both really awakened. They have obviously grown up fearing God. I think when you're in both, my oldest two sons were conceived out of my oldest. By the time my second son was born. 44:48 We were born again and married, but certainly conceived in sin, and there was a deep wrestling with my oldest two sons. I think leading boys are totally different and then there was something there with that spiritual dynamic that that was a harder wrestling match as opposed to the rest of my children, and that was a crushing blow to recognize how God is not mocked and we reap what we sow. His ways are better, Right. So I think my journey in parenting has been sober at every level. Like man, we don't get away with anything. You know, god's mercy doesn't eradicate the consequences of sin, right? God's grace doesn't. It doesn't do this, not quite that way we, you know, there's some sins where we reap it in the earth. There's some sins we're going to fully account for in that day, and I'm not talking about it's just like, hey man, we're going to have to give account for this. So I think that's what has been so sobering about being a father, and the desire to see our children flourish and take on the image and likeness of Christ and know God above all things. 45:52 The number one question I get is do your sons play football? And my older sons didn't. They weren't into it and I didn't have the capacity, as I was being a full-time everything to like. You know, I'm like, if you're with it, I'm with it because I know what it takes and this is not my dream, this is your dream, and I think there were ways where I could have probably, I probably should have my, my sons into it, as opposed to, you know, like I kind of made it their decision and I realized they probably wanted more direction, they probably wanted more than they even knew. 46:30 So I think there's so many details in relation to raising up a heart, you know, you know shepherding a heart, raising up a human that this journey for us has been our crucible. We've homeschooled my wife homeschooled for 15 years and we're still at it. My youngest is 11, but now, kind of seeing both of my sons come to their own conclusions and awaken to know fire for God, it's all worth it the suffering. You know we didn't do anything, we took no shortcuts. God didn't give us the liberty to take shortcuts, and when I say shortcuts I think there's a road map for everyone. But you know we certainly could have done some things easier. You know, had the kids in school, you know like had two incomes, you know raising them, you know like. 47:17 So you know, had the kids in school, you know like had two incomes, you know raising them. You know like. So you know, when you're, when you're an athlete, people think you just got it, and that wasn't my journey. I took some losses and I went straight to work. You know, you know, transition out the league, so, but it's all worth. The sacrifices, and the sacrifices of righteousness unto God, the sacrifices of thanksgiving, the sacrifices of praise that I can give my God, have been a reasonable exchange and I've been able to see the glory of God in so many different areas of our life and that's been a joy. 47:49 - Speaker 3 Yeah, I now think, like one person's sacrifice is another person's investment. You know, it's like I'm willing to give this because I realized, like you said, like kingdom glory is always on the back end, like I saw this instagram reel of this um married couple. They had like four kids, but then they had like 12 grandkids and then now they have like 25 great, great grandkids. I'm like that's that one couple that creates this beautiful family tree. And you know you're already doing that. 48:16 - Speaker 1 Yeah, that's amazing. I've always said posterity over prosperity and I think that in posterity there really is prosperity and you know, like I said, there's a I don't, I don't. I've never really perceived myself missing anything. I think, you know, there's a lot of tension, especially growing through your 30s, where you know you want to have had everything. You want to have had everything. You want to have hit on all cylinders right. 48:38 And I feel like these last few years I hit 40 and the Lord sent us right into a wilderness. Literally at 40 years old I'm like, oh nice, you know, god has always given me the joy of seeing things happen with the spiritually significant numbers. Yeah, these moments of tension where it's like man, I wish I had the financial resources to do X, y and Z, but we never had lack either. I think the joy of the journey is what I've now been able to really embrace and we're still going. We felt like these last few years it's been a embrace and we're still going. We're, you know, like we felt, like these last few years it's been a wilderness and we're coming out on the other side of it. 49:22 But the the proven ground is that we're his. The proven ground is that his grace has gone before us in every area of our life, seeing our children come alive in Christ. You know, my Superbowl babies are 16 or seniors and they're they're. They're lovely. They have the powerful testimony of being such amazing witnesses in their Christian school. Like so, when I the rewards of what I've sacrificed for I'm reaping. You know, everything that I've sowed into in relation to you know, building a foundation on what really matters most, I'm reaping. So you know I didn't reap into the marketplace for the last 12 years. I reaped into the kingdom and the family. So I'm blessed as I understand better and more. I think there's another season that God will bring us into, to bring more value, to bring glory to his name. 50:15 - Speaker 3 There's something weird about that 40 number, because my life started changing at 42 and it's so much better now. And when people are like, oh, I miss my 20s and 30s, I'm like heck, no, I'm not going backwards. 50:26 - Speaker 1 Oh, man, I call the 20s young and dumb and you have the ability to obviously do more. You're stronger. God calls us young because you're strong, but when I think about all the dumb decisions I've made, they were right on target. Now we know the brain is not fully formed until 24 and a young man, so it's like, yeah, you were dumb man. 50:53 And you're just kind of recouping from poor decisions through the rest of your 20s. So by the time I'm 30, I'm starting to figure some things out and I'm still strong and able to do a lot, but I have my hands full with a rich and beautiful family, and so it's a beautiful thing, I feel like at the end of the day, when you think about these desires that God will give, these dreams that we can dream. There's so much to bring to table and I think the diversity of creation, the diversity in the body, is where we can really kind of bring things together Right. Then you start to see the miraculous nature in God's splendor, all through his creation, in God's splendor, all through his creation. And, yeah, for me, I wouldn't take anything back in relation to having this journey as an athlete, being able to call myself a champion at every level, but also, yeah, taking the blows right, taking the blows that come along with the human experience and being able to rejoice in them and not necessarily lick my wounds. I don't have real bitterness that come along with the human experience and being able to rejoice in them and, you know, not necessarily lick my wounds, I don't have real bitterness, and I think that to me, that's the real. 52:02 You know, for even all the losses financially, you know whatever level, I don't have bitterness, it's like, you know, I want to punch a few people in the face, absolutely. Yeah, it's like man, can we do it, lord? But at the end of the day, I want him to be glorified and you know, I know that he's going to avenge me. You know, in whatever ways that the enemy would attempt to steal, kill and destroy, I know that I have, by God's grace, that I can love my like. Literally everything is possible in Christ. 52:32 So, and I want, I'd rather have that testimony than you know, and I'm not trying to necessarily, I don't have perfection, was never on the table, because I came in this thing shaping in it with iniquity. So you know, I think. But the whole idea is, I do want to be blameless, I do want to have the testimony of a son of god, of being blameless, you know, so that I can continue to point people to that hope of forgiveness and mercy and, you know, and redemption that every human is actually looking for. So, yeah, the journey has been amazing, man, and I think that's what it's all about. 53:07 - Speaker 3 What are you hoping for faithfully? 53:08 - Speaker 1 I've always been, you know, a bridge or a conduit and I think, just our own personal work and labor and, and we know, I would say the last two years I've intentionally been kind of coming out of it because it's like you know, everybody wants you to, you know, sign their gift, show up on a Zoom call. I'm like man, my time is really precious and I'm not the average Joe and the average Joe is just as valuable in the sight of God. So, yeah, that's been a big, that's been one of the weird journeys, because I don't esteem myself, I don't look at myself the way others do and I know that, yeah, I've been paid to be here, and so it's just a weird journey as a Christian, because I don't I don't really believe in Christian celebrity, but I do believe in value and honor. Right, and I think that's another. That has been another valley for me, because I'm like, you know, when it comes to pastors, I bless them, I love them, I'm like, but who are you joking, right? Like I think that's the if Jesus could make himself of no reputation, and I think that's if we're going to go, go back to where this all belongs, and I think we can properly esteem properly value in every area financially, emotionally, spiritually but we could also humble ourselves, make ourselves a known reputation. 54:45 So, yeah, it's a weird thing for someone like myself when do I show up and for what? Right? But I think, yeah, faith leads. I think it'd be a big part of those solutions and bridging gaps where everybody can find out where they, where they belong and where they connect with. I think you want to do that with brothers in Christ. Sadly, so many people. A lot of my blows have come to people that are call themselves Christians or are Christian and you know whether they're not or whether they're broken. Those are the things that suck, and if you don't find Christ, whoo yes the flesh wants to do what the spirit says no to. 55:25 I'm telling you. So he's like don't sue the brethren, are you sure, god? But I think learning due diligence in the kingdom is a powerful thing, like, yeah, we have to be excellent on all areas and not be naive, but yeah, it's all part of the journey and I think god will get us there yeah, and the biggest thing that I'm taking away from what you said was like you always got to continue to hold on to the promise with the pain. 55:50 - Speaker 3 So even when you don't sue, like god will repay you don't worry. You know he's not gonna to like the parable about the birds and the lilies, like that's always sticking with me. Last question is how can we pray for you and your family? 56:03 - Speaker 1 Man. Yeah, I think the greatest prayer at this point is I think that we've seen so much of God's goodness and I think it's really just about what God wants. You know, like my family's in good health, great position, we're postured around the right thing and you know, we've had this inclination that we're getting on the backside of this wilderness where God wants to bring a powerful harvest. So I think you know it's hard to be specific about it, but we do want to see a powerful financial harvest to the kingdom we believe in and I don't. You know, I'm not a in-time guy, but I do believe that we're on a different trajectory. 56:44 There's powerful things that have happened in the nation within the last year where, you know, I'm not one of these wealth transfer guys, but we need resources to advance the kingdom. I've now had my hands in enough ministry where I've seen that and when you're, you know, in my own ecosystem of ministry. Yeah, I'm a father in the faith. I've made disciples who make disciples, so it's been a beautiful journey for me and I really want to see that prosperity and that infusion of wealth into the kingdom where the true carriers you know, vessels of honor can be equipped with what's necessary to continue to advance the kingdom, even things of the books of nature. Whatever, however, god wants to do it. We just want to really be equipped to do the will of God where it's not a striving, you know. I think that's probably a healthy place of prayer that God will bring us into, that place where we're just resting in his grace. We're in that rhythm of grace with him in relation to what he desires for us in this season. 57:46 - Speaker 3 Thank you, David. This was great. Appreciate you, brother. All right, that's it for the podcast. Bye guys. 57:51 - Speaker 2 Thank you for tuning in to the Faithly Stories podcast. We pray this episode gave you the encouragement you needed to continue on your journey. The Faithly Stories podcast is brought to you by Faithly, an online community committed to empowering church leaders, pastors, staff and volunteers. The Faithly digital platform offers innovative and practical tools and resources to enhance connection, foster collaboration and promote growth within the church and ministry space. Remember to subscribe, rate and review our podcast to help reach more listeners like you. Stay tuned for more uplifting tales from the frontlines of ministry on the Faithly Podcast. Stay bold, stay faithful and never underestimate the power of your own story.