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Choosing to Church Plant - Russel Rader
What if you could transform your faith journey through mentorship and community? Join us for an inspiring episode as we sit down with Russe…
Oct. 28, 2024
Choosing to Church Plant - Russel Rader
What if you could transform your faith journey through mentorship and community? Join us for an inspiring episode as we sit down with Russell Rader, a committed church planter at Reunion Church in Union Square, who takes us through his incredible path of faith and discipleship. Russell's spiritual adventure began at the tender age of 12 when his family moved near a megachurch in Phoenix, Arizona. Initially reluctant, he found guidance in a mentor named Dustin, whose dedicated support played a pivotal role in nurturing his early spiritual growth. Russell's story highlights the power of mentorship and community in paving his way into ministry.
Russell pulls back the curtain on his own journey of healing and growth, sharing candidly about the impact of father figures and mentors throughout his life, from college experiences to his first pastoral role. We hear about his challenges with fatherhood and marriage, and the importance of learning from personal experiences to be present for his children. With a touching narrative of meeting his wife at a wedding in Kansas City and the foundational years pastoring his first church, Russell illustrates the profound significance of balance in family life and career. This episode emphasizes the necessity of intentional learning and personal growth.
Church planting is no easy feat, especially during challenging times like the COVID-19 pandemic. Russell shares his insights on navigating the ups and downs of building a church community, detailing the trials and triumphs that accompanied this endeavor. From a memorable Christmas gathering to the challenges of nurturing a dedicated team, Russell discusses the realities of church planting and the critical role of integrity and accountability within church leadership. His reflections on aligning social justice with evangelism and his vision for the future of Reunion Church offer a rich perspective on remaining steadfast in one's faith mission. Join us for a profound exploration of faith, humility, and the unyielding commitment to serving one's community.
(00:01) Finding Faith Through Discipleship
(08:34) Journey of Healing and Growth
(15:45) Church Planting Insights and Challenges
(25:06) Navigating Church Planting Challenges During COVID
(30:35) Building a Strong Church Community
Website - https://faithly.co
Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/faithly.co
Russel Rader
https://faithly.co/profiles/russelrader
Reunion Church NYC
https://www.reunionnyc.com
Chapters
01:00 - Finding Faith Through Discipleship
08:34:00 - Journey of Healing and Growth
15:45:00 - Church Planting Insights and Challenges
25:06:00 - Navigating Church Planting Challenges During COVID
30:35:00 - Building a Strong Church Community
Transcript
00:01 - Speaker 1
I remember praying like God, I want to do whatever it is that you want me to do, but like I need you to speak to me, like I really want to hear your voice because I want to respond, and like I was like please speak audibly. I was like I want to hear your voice and so I'd walk around this park, city Park. I'd walk around City Park and I would just pray. After like a three hour like walk around the park in prayer, I heard nothing and I was like I'm coming tomorrow. And I went the next day and I did the exact same thing Three hours walking, praying. And then at the end of the second day I was like kind of pissed off. I was like God, I genuinely want to hear your voice. I'm trying to discern what you want me to do. I don't. I almost felt ambivalent at that point. I was just like whatever, I just you know I'll do whatever. And then on the third day, I think, probably halfway through that time, it just struck me. I think I was like you choose, my will is very open.
00:49
Hey, my name is Russell Rader. I am a church planter, reunion Church, union Square. I live in Gramercy with my wife, katie, and my two kids, rose and Luther. Five and two, and this is my Faithly story.
01:03 - Speaker 2
Welcome to Faithly Stories, the podcast that brings you inspiring tales from conversations with church leaders as they navigate the peaks and valleys of their faith journeys through their ministry work and everyday life. Join us as we delve into their challenges, moments of encouragement and answered prayers. The Faithly Stories podcast is brought to you by Faithly, an online community committed to empowering church leaders, pastors, staff and volunteers. Learn more at faithlyco. Get ready to be uplifted and inspired as we unveil the heart of faith through stories from the front lines of ministry. On the Faithly Stories podcast.
01:46 - Speaker 3
Tell me how your faith journey started.
01:47 - Speaker 1
Yeah, wow, my faith journey started when I was 12 years old. My mom my mom was single at the time moved across the street from a megachurch in Phoenix, arizona, and so she had grown up pretty Baptist. My dad had grown up Catholic I don't think I could really like name it at the time, but I was just really searching for a father figure and mentor, and this, you know, of course, came after a lot of reflection. But I, we moved across the street from that church and my mom sort of dragged me over there. I had never been to something like that. It was in this, this like tent structure. They actually in Phoenix use these, they're called sprung structures, they use them for casinos. And so I told my mom, like mom, that's not a church, that's a casino. And she was like no, I promise it's a church. And so, um, we went over there.
02:39
Um, you know, there was like hundreds of people in this room and I was like, ah, yeah, I don't really know what that is or if that's for me. But then afterwards she, um, she saw the sign for like this middle school classroom and she was just like you're going and my mom is not like a four school person in that way, but she's like you're going to this class, and so I was like, all right, I guess I'm going. And the first person I met when I walked in would be someone who would mentor me, um for the next six years, um who would spend every week with me um sharing his own journey, um following jesus, and was like he gave his life to me um in in that way and um, it was really kind of all down to after meeting dustin and I'm always I always tell people like for me, I'm the byproduct of like discipleship that's cool.
03:32 - Speaker 3
How'd you meet dustin?
03:33 - Speaker 1
yeah. So like I walked in and literally like dustin was the first person I met and he was like let's hang out, um. So I remember like early days hanging out with Dustin, just like grabbing a Coke after school or like going to McDonald's, and then he would invite me eventually to like a Bible study with the guys from church and the church. That church in particular was very large, like I think at that time it was like 3000 people and but it's crazy because, like I was at that time it was like 3,000 people. But it's crazy because I was at that megachurch but never really felt like I had a megachurch experience. It was like a one-on-one relationship with a person.
04:12 - Speaker 3
Was he just a way leader, or how did he get to know you?
04:15 - Speaker 1
No, no, he was actually on staff as a youth pastor there. He's actually mind-blowing. He's still there, and I don't know how many years ago that was mind-blowing. He's still there, um, and I don't know how many years ago that was.
04:27 - Speaker 3
I was 12. I'm not gonna age myself. That was 23 years ago. Was he doing this to all the other kids or just kind of like a few, or just you?
04:31 - Speaker 1
no, there was a few of us, um, and he like I don't know, he was pretty young at the time too, had a lot of space in his life, but it, what, what it ended up being, which was so cool, was starting my sophomore year. He would take a group of three of us and so like, very, you know, peter, peter and John and James it is I mean, this is bad for the podcast, you know, but the three of us would hang out so Friday mornings, 6 am at McDonald's, and we really were just spending time in scripture. We're reading CS Lewis. He would create challenges for us, which was just crazy. He would.
05:10
One time I remember we got there and he's like, all right, so it's 6 am where I make the haunts. He's like we're going to spend one hour here and we're only saying Scripture, so we would just come up with passages of Scripture that we'd know. He says if we run out of scripture to talk about, then we're going to sit here in silence. This is crazy. And so this was his discipleship process. It was just coming together, read scripture together and, you know, share and know each other in our lives.
05:39 - Speaker 3
That's awesome. That sounds like a similar experience I had in youth group my youth pastor. He was really big into at the time. I didn't even call it discipleship, it was just like church. But there was one like year we went to church like literally six days a week because it was just something every like in the summer and it was like the best boot camp I ever had, like when we retreat it was like five days and we literally read through the new testament half the time.
06:02
I was sleeping because it was on tape and I was like, but like you know, it was just how old are you? Yeah, yeah, dude, I'm probably older than you. But just that immersive experience. And then, only when I got out, I didn't realize how unique that experience was so for you. When, during that process, did you like realize?
06:22 - Speaker 1
oh jesus is for you. Yeah, I mean, if I'm honest, it was like right, like my life was. So. I mean, I was 12, 7th grade. I, you know, I go to this church. Here's somebody who cares about me, who sees me, and I'm like wow, like I think there's something to this and so in a lot of ways I tell people like I think for me in my journey and in my childhood and like navigating my parents' divorce, like Jesus came into my life at a unique moment of need where I needed someone to like care for me, deeply, right where I was, and within six months I was baptized.
06:59
A year and a half later I was like I think God is calling me to full-time ministry, which what you know ninth grader knows to full-time ministry, which what, what you know ninth grader knows what full-time ministry looks like. I thought being a youth pastor was like, you know, going to walmart and shopping and then like hanging out with kids and playing video games. So I'm like who doesn't been called to that? You know what I think it was. You know, subtly, those, those little challenges and those unique opportunities to be seen and cared for, was like that was actually all God's hand at work in my life. Those were all God, you know, in the background, working out his will for me.
07:32 - Speaker 3
So for you, like Dustin was a prominent male figure, but did you have other people and how did that shape you and how did that help you understand that word father?
07:42 - Speaker 1
Because a lot of times when you have a bad relationship with your father and people say god is your father, it's like a negative, like visceral reaction yeah, yeah, you know, it's so fun to think about, like the ways that I always felt a lacking in that area, where and sometimes it was just a disconnect like my dad was so different and my mom would always say to me you know, think about your dad and focus on the positive things about your dad. She was like very pro dad in that way and and then I, you know, I felt like that like kind of emptiness there. And then Paul even says it in in second Corinthians, like he says you, you've had 10,000 teachers, but you haven't had many fathers. And I always felt like, for me as like a young man, that's the gap that God consistently used to show me he was faithful, and so it was just like dusting. And then I got to college and right away I met a guy who was always inviting me over to his house and just inviting me into his family dinners on Sunday nights.
08:43
My junior and senior year, my preaching professor in my undergrad was like a father figure to me, really kind and caring. We ended up our class was kind of small senior year, our preaching class, and so he would just take us to coffee and we would meet over coffee. That was on Fridays too. And then my first job as a pastor. I came out of college. I was pastoring very young, I was 22. I was pastor at this church and my first boss was like a father figure to me still is to this day. So yeah, that sort of weakness for me, as though I felt, was a place where, like God's strength came into my life for sure.
09:23 - Speaker 3
You being a father. Now like how does that translate? Do you realize it's harder than you realize?
09:29 - Speaker 1
or like yeah, yeah Well, I mean, there's so much to say there. Daniel, you know, the first thing I'll say is at 5.15, I go home. I go home at 5.15 because I want to. I want to be home with my kids, I want to be present for them and I want to be available to them. But I think maybe the other thing to say is that it's made me as, like, a son. It's made me more gracious, you know, towards my own parents for their shortcomings and their failures. And you know, just try to kind of live in that space a little more free, done a lot of healing in that area. I feel like for my own kids it's like I'm going to mess them up in some way. I just want to be able to apologize and ask for forgiveness from them. Just try to show up more.
10:18 - Speaker 3
What were some of the steps that helped you heal?
10:21 - Speaker 1
Well, I mean, there was a season that I could share. One I didn't share about is when I got married nine years ago. We got married. I'm so excited to be a husband.
10:32
And then I kind of came to that realization like how do I be a husband? Like what does that really look like? You know, I don't want to live into everyone around me's story, like how do I do that? Well, in my own way. And I realized I had it modeled to me from some people and there were some positive things from my own father but really needed to tune into what that looks like. What does it mean to be a husband? What does it mean to be a man? What does it mean to eventually be a father?
11:01
So I started reading. I picked up a bunch of books. A book by a guy named john sours manhood journey uh, was like a really healing to me. I was just telling someone about it recently. Um, richard roars, um, adam's return you know the five crucial steps of of, um, you know becoming a man. Picking up some of these resources were really really healing to me.
11:26
But then also lamenting what I didn't have and what wasn't modeled to me and not being okay. I felt deficient in those areas because it wasn't modeled to me. Intense therapy, counseling I was really good, but I would say like an intentional season of like learning and leaning in and, you know, telling my wife like I don't necessarily know how to do that right, like my wife would tell me like, oh, you're just, you know, this is the feeling you're having. I'm like I didn't know that yet, honey, you know I didn't catch that. You knew my feeling before I did, because I was detached from it and so letting her sort of both of us learning like I can take that in and she can deliver it a little bit differently.
12:11 - Speaker 3
That's awesome. It's nice to have a partner who can house things off Sometimes. Sometimes it doesn't feel great in the moment, but no, it doesn't.
12:22 - Speaker 1
My wife and I. I was pastoring a church in Kansas City. My wife was living here in was pastoring a church in Kansas City. My wife was living here in New York, but my wife is from Kansas City and so we were in a wedding together. We're both in the wedding. And my friend who was getting married was like do you want to meet your wife at my wedding? And I was like, sure, man, that's how it's going to work. Sure, and so my now wife was in the wedding. We met there. I knew she was leaving two days later back to New York and so I was like I've got to get on a date with her tomorrow. And so the day after the wedding we went on a seven-hour date. Like two weeks later we were dating. I was up here in the city like a couple months later and the rest is sort of history, but yeah.
13:08 - Speaker 3
Wait, where'd you grow up? You grew up in Arizona.
13:16 - Speaker 1
Yeah, so I grew up in Arizona. I went to school, I went to a Bible college called Manhattan Christian College in Manhattan, kansas of all places it exists and then after college I moved to Kansas City and I was there for seven years pastoring a church, and so my wife is from Kansas City.
13:30 - Speaker 3
Was that the first church you were pastoring after college?
13:33 - Speaker 1
Yeah, yeah, I was there for seven years. It was like a wonderful, like it was like a foundational place for me to go and serve a lot of opportunities. I was a really young pastor, I was single and it was just a really solid place for me.
13:49 - Speaker 3
What did you end up doing?
13:49 - Speaker 1
there, let's see my title. Ironically enough, I don't really recommend this for a job description. My title was the everything else guy and Daniel. You may know what this is like actually.
14:03 - Speaker 3
Yeah, you're a gopher, go for this yeah, no, I really was I.
14:07 - Speaker 1
I served in a youth ministry for a year and a half. Um, I was, I oversaw, uh, all of our community groups. Uh, I, I was, I was preaching and by the time I was leaving, I was preaching twice a month there, and so it really was actually. What it really was was a great um learning for church planting. This is what it was. My boss was like I think you're a church planter. He was really always very open with me and very thoughtful in that way, looking forward.
14:37 - Speaker 3
When did you go to seminary?
14:38 - Speaker 1
When did I go to seminary? I went to Fuller Theological Seminary from 2000 to 2020.
14:45 - Speaker 3
Five years hybrid, mostly online was that right after bible college, because I thought there was a gap no, there was a gap, so I went to um.
14:53 - Speaker 1
I graduated from bible college in 2000 and then, after about five years in ministry, I was like I think it would be good for me to get some more theological training. My church tradition didn't uh, I didn't need a lot more um like background and training, but I just I thought continuing ed would be good for me, and so, um, I went to fuller no, you did the right way.
15:14
I always tell people don't go right after undergrad because yeah it's you need life experience and like you need church experience you know, and and for me, I I agree, and I also think that like going to fuller while I, while I was in ministry for a season, and then also preparing to plant, was really good. I mean, I was fleshing out a lot of ideas and thinking about worship, expression and social justice issues, and there's just so many things you're thinking about simultaneously, and so I was actually like it was the perfect scenario for me.
15:45 - Speaker 3
So when you're a pastor was like, hey, you should church plant. Did you understand what that is? Because church planting is like startups People think it's glamorous until you do it, and then you're like, oh wait, we're always almost dying.
15:57 - Speaker 1
Wow, okay, you know church plants, you know he yes and no, you know. I mean, I think it was like it was like 2012, 2013,. I think church planting in that season was a little more sexy too. You know, we started going to Exponential, the church planting conference, and it was like if you're an awesome, successful pastor, then you can plant a church, you know. And then 2015, 2016 came around.
16:21
It was like I don't think that's the way church planting, you know, works anymore. Think that's the way church planting, you know works anymore. And so I think I have been around enough of that world, enough of you know, taking on a campus of our church, closing a campus of our church, to really kind of take in what it meant. And I feel as though we were, we were really open in that season to trying to figure out, like discerning, what that meant for us. But yeah, I think, all in all, the training I was getting at that church was preparing me for whatever was next for us. And that church, I mean the amazing thing about it was they really held loosely to us. I mean they were just like we're open to you know God's calling on your life. I was like wow, because I was taking on more and more responsibility at the church too something that recently I've been changing my mind on is even the word church planting.
17:12
I think it's more proper to nuance it as church birthing, because planting is like you kind of plant it and you kind of walk away, but birthing is like you kind of have to like incubate it a bit and then let it go, and I think that's just a better model of like getting churches built well, I mean, especially if you think about I was just telling this to a friend I met we work right now and so there's like all these tech startups you know around us and you know, when you think about like tech startup world, a lot of them are like you know, like we're self-made, like you know we built this thing from the ground up.
17:43
Then you know, then they sell it for 100 million dollars or whatever. That's the goal and I'm like, actually, if I'm honest, we are anything but self-made. As a church planter, I am standing on the shoulders of other people. I'm propped up by Dustin and by Brian, my old boss, or by Jordan Rice up at Renaissance in Harlem. We're the byproduct of their discipleship and their cultivation and then, quite frankly, their financial support and their like coaching, and so I like that. So maybe in your metaphor, those, all those mentors are just they're actually just doulas, you know, helping, helping birth this church.
18:24 - Speaker 3
That means a servant or slave in Greek.
18:28 - Speaker 1
There you go, perfect, you have no idea what he's talking about.
18:31 - Speaker 3
So is reunion church the church you planted? Yeah?
18:36 - Speaker 1
and so we planted. We officially launched in 2020, september of 22. Prior to that, I was at renaissance church, um, doing church planting residency up in harlem wonderful, wonderful, wonderful place. I mean again in terms of coming to New York dreaming about planting a church, really submitting to the process. When we moved here, I was like I'm just going to get a job. I don't know if our church planting journey is starting a year from now or starting five years from now. And so I got a job at Blue Bottle Coffee and I was just a barista, but actually I was doing life contextualization work. I was asking questions. I put all these questions in my back pocket so I could ask my co-workers or customers that would come in. And then we're working at Renaissance for 18 months before they sent us out to plant reunion. But the problem was I was like late 2019, early 2020. And so it was an interesting season, to say the least.
19:34 - Speaker 3
So how did you get connected to Renaissance?
19:37 - Speaker 1
Actually a handful of ways. Our church planting organization for reunion and Renaissance is the same. It's called the Orchard Group. They've been planting churches in New york since the 1940s actually, and so that was part of the connection because I knew I knew jordan and renaissance through the orchard group, um. But also we had a handful of friends. My wife, from being in college at nyu, had a lot of friends that had started going to church in renaissance at renaissance so you went from casey to renaissance to do like a residency kind of church.
20:08
No, no actually um, a little little maybe stupid on my part is like I came from kansas city with no job and moved to new york and went to blue bottle and then, you know, got connected to um renaissance and they were really gracious to to take us in, a white guy, into a predominantly black church.
20:29 - Speaker 3
So good times sounds stupid, we call that faith yes and yeah no, I agree.
20:36 - Speaker 1
I, you know I mean.
20:37
They even told me when I got there, like you're wild, to bring your pregnant wife you know, to the, to the city, to, you know, find the church, and I was just like I think you know, I think this is what I'm you know, I was really still discerning that calling to church and I was just like I think you know, I think this is what I'm, you know, I was really still discerning that calling to church plants, I think, and just trying to do the, you know, do the next faithful step thing as I could.
20:55 - Speaker 3
Yeah, I hear that, even when you express like your job at blue bottle and taking that as an opportunity just to get to know like non-church people and what's going on, because I think that should be normal, but the fact that it's not normal, like you're just a christian but you're also just a normal person, so you've got to like shut it on and off, so I love that well and and if I'm honest, I was I was learning at and learning residency like contextual ministry, like urban ministry at renaissance.
21:23 - Speaker 1
I was doing just as much at blue bottle and figuring out what are the hopes of people in the city, what are the dreams? Um, you know, someone is, is grinding on broadway or has this creative endeavor and, you know, wants to do jazz in the city. What, whatever that was, they want to create an app and they're working this side gig. At the same time, I'm learning. What are the questions, what are the people really searching for and what are the overarching cultural narratives that I have to tune into as a person and a pastor so I can really care about people and if I'm really listening to people's story and journey and figuring out where does God intersect with this person's story.
22:05
I actually started doing it after a little while, before I did it anywhere, and they would say they would tell me. You know like they would ask me crazy questions. I'd be like making a latte with a coworker and it'd be like hey Russell, am I going to hell? I'm like I don't know. You know, pass me the oatmeal though, you know, and so it was a really good cultivation of of my own expression as a pastor outside of the church context.
22:32 - Speaker 3
If someone asked me that but you're like, only if you want to, that'd be good, I love it. So, looking back, what do you feel like you learned in KC, but you learned differently in Renaissanceissance, mainly because, just like, the cities are very different and I don't think people understand how different new york is and how different manhattan is from, like, the rest of the country manhattan is mars man.
22:57 - Speaker 1
I mean, this is like it's. In one sense, it's like I took some of the like pastoral, like essential things that I learned along the way, some of like the biblical essential things. You know, I kept a lot of those and and to, you know, my uh, my boss in kansas city. He, he was so good at like organizational feedback and, um, very like missions minded, so I was able to travel with him, um, to europe and to africa and so like there were some things that translate, but, like so many of the other, like family-centric cultural narratives are just like those are not helpful. They were helpful in kansas city, but they're not helpful years, um, necessarily, yeah, I would just say, like re-evaluating the dreams and the desires of people, the work-centric nature of new york, like the willingness to grind and like put yourself out there, but I don't know, like, maybe something like the actual like time and rhythms are, you know, are different too.
23:59
Like when I moved here, I was always trying to get people to like I'll, I'll meet someone. I'll be. Like let's grab coffee 630. And they're like, yeah, no, like let's get drinks. I'm like, nah, I'm like, I'm gonna bed at 930.
24:12
Like I'm old, you know, yeah, so I would say everything is different.
24:16 - Speaker 3
Yeah, no one wakes up early, unless you have to or you're working in the market.
24:20 - Speaker 1
Even me now. Like I'm like my alarm clock is like know, like two year old, but pretty soon, like he's gonna sleep in more, I'm gonna be sleeping in too so.
24:30 - Speaker 3
So when you planted a reunion, did you take a core team from renaissance, or how did that work for you?
24:37 - Speaker 1
yeah they were, they were absolutely wonderful. I mean, um, jordan the pastor there was always so kind to say like hey, if you live downtown, you know somebody downtown you want to go with Russell, Like go, go, go.
24:51
And that you know, we had a handful of people, you know, respond to that, which was great, but I think even the relational network that you get from that over time is actually the valuable. You know, the valuable thing is actually the valuable. You know, the valuable thing. Our unique tension was, you know, gathering up that core team of people and then COVID hitting the city. I mean, that was the part that was just devastating, because one of the things that we did in terms of like strategy was like hey, what kind of relational network do we have? Do we have like good momentum?
25:22
And so December of 2019, 2019, we were just like we're just going to throw a christmas party and, um, we're just going to see what kind of network we really have. And so we had 75 people show up to that christmas party. They weren't all going to be a part of the church, but it was an idea of like how could we come about ground, show the name of our church and say that we're coming in the fall of next year? And we were like that was a good thing, it was successful. So we started gathering people over dinner at our home, january, february, march. And then COVID struck and it was just like. The last gathering we had was like March 15th, 16th, something like that. It was like 18 people in our living room and we were going around the table sharing like what is like a story of like hope, if you have one that you want to share right now, and like, maybe, a fear that you have around this new thing called the coronavirus. And that was our prompt, you know, for that dinner that night.
26:19 - Speaker 3
So did COVID delay your launch.
26:21 - Speaker 1
Oh yeah, definitely, you know we. We shifted to like, you know, online core team meetings and, you know, in that season, if you're familiar with church planting, it's like you got to go as wide as possible. Figure out the relational network, um, cast like a wide net to as many people as you can to tell them about what you're doing. And like go meet as many people as possible. And COVID is like here's the goal of COVID Don't talk to anybody in person. And so, instead of like going wide, it was like all right, we have to go deep with the people we have.
26:52
And so there were some positives and I think, for me as a pastor and in that season, like I'm motivated you know I'm a go-getter and I feel really stifled. I felt there was a lot of like lament, of like big vision and big goals, of like hey, those, some of those things actually need to die in you, and like some of the like launch, large metrics need to actually be tempered so that you can be in a place where you leave the fruit up to God. Fruit matters. But it was a season where it was like okay, I can actually let go of some of those things and carry it off the people in front of me, and so there was, there was some, really there was some rich stuff that came out of that season yeah, I'm being convinced more and more.
27:38 - Speaker 3
Fruit is not something we see, fruit is something we experience and I think, yeah, somewhere along the lines like, like god's been. Really it's weird because it has a similarity to ai and the neural network and how your brain works, and I feel like he's like literally reconnecting all my understanding of just like the kingdom and so one thing that's been constantly popping up is like god does not need us to be great. He's great, right what?
28:03
he needs are good servants, good sons and daughters, and as long as I'm being good wherever I am, he's going to do the great thing.
28:12 - Speaker 1
Yeah, and the gift of ministry is that we steward that. We like just doling out God's grace left and right, and it's like such an honor to be able to do that. So I would sit with our core team in that season and I mean I wasn't like gushing out like all my mess, but there were times that I would just come more honest, like hey, guys, like I don't, you know, sure, we should talk about strategies for evangelism, but also I like I I'm like I'm having a hard week and like I think we need to pray for one another. And there were times where I was now to being like, hey, we have to push the goal forward, but like how do we care about the people that are on the call? And I would mess up. You know I'll be like, hey, we're going to. You know, talk about, you know what it looks like to train teams, you know when we can launch. And it was just like that's not what we needed to talk about tonight. And so it was.
29:01
I'm grateful for the season. I know it was absolutely tragic for so many people, but I was, I was really grateful that it slowed me down. It was, it was healing for me in a lot of ways. And then I was reorienting. You know how to be a dad in that season to having a two year old. While you're trying to plant a church over zoom at home, you're just like you caught. I felt like a failure all the time and um, and so it's just a lot of, a lot of the math it's a good place to be because it keeps you humble.
29:32 - Speaker 3
Yeah, yeah, hopefully god knows what he's doing. Yes, so even as you talk about that like something I've been trying to self-discipline and keep it as a routine, is just this understanding that I can't think too far, that I need to focus on today because something might change tomorrow in my plant. It goes all to you know.
29:54
So it's just like, yeah, I have a trajectory yeah, every single day I'm faithful to today, and then only when I look back I'm like, oh, I didn't even calculate this, but like just being faithful, god kind of just stacked them.
30:07 - Speaker 1
Yeah, yeah, that makes total sense.
30:09 - Speaker 3
So when you planted in your mind, did you have a specific DNA or culture you wanted to cultivate, like what makes Reunion unique?
30:19 - Speaker 1
Yeah, yeah, I mean part of our DNA as a church comes out of that season. Yeah, I mean part of our DNA as a church comes out of that season. You know, I mean, if you want to recall the season, it's like it's not just COVID but it's social justice issues. You know, george Floyd, black Lives Matter. It's like churches in crisis where pastors are lacking integrity and scandalous surrounding church leaders and so all of those things sort of shaped who we are as a church now.
30:47
And so, like I'm not going to just go through these, like in our newcomers class or our membership class, like one of the questions we get asked is like Russell, who are you accountable to?
30:58
And one of the things I had to really think through is like well, people are asking if they're safe in our church, and so that's like an undertone. Like as a pastor that I'm more and more sensitive to, people are wondering like is this like some willy nilly, like cult kind of thing and helping people see, like that we genuinely want to get to the heart of Jesus? And so, like we launched our church preaching through the book of Mark, saying who's the real and raw Jesus, and like just try to go after that. And I'm sharing stories about how like we want to be a safe place. And then, on the social justice issue side of things, it's like our church is not seeing it as not seeing those things as separate from evangelism, but actually tools for evangelism. That that our community is really serious one about following Jesus, yes, but to genuinely seeking the good of our city and so like those things seep into everything that we do. So that that was also so pivotal in that season to really cultivate the heartbeat of our community.
32:04 - Speaker 3
Where's your church located Union Square, 13th Street and what time is your service? 11 am. So it's only been about two years, yeah, okay, so like what has been going really well and what has been not going well?
32:17 - Speaker 1
Yeah, yeah, yeah. What has been going well, what has not been going well? Daniel, I am blown away at the type of people that come to my church. I am just blown away by how they're like how do I say this? How rooted in the gospel people are in my community and I get to be a part of that, like their life and their journey and their story and how capable they are. You know, of course, you know we're all wrestling with our own immaturity and learning and growing, but I just look around at our community and I'm like they're a part of our church. I would choose to be friends with them even if we weren't like in community together. And so I just am always blown away by the type of people that are around our church, the way that they are genuinely trying to love their neighbor and you know how they're prayerful for, like our church, how they take ownership of what we're doing as a community.
33:16
What's not going well? I would say in any entrepreneurial endeavor, you don't, you don't get to control more. You know so many things, and so at times I'm like, okay, am I heading in the right direction? And I can, you know, feel sort of insecure as a leader like am I doing the right thing and am I leading in the right way? And I think, over time, you know, doing this two and a half years, you know I'm like, okay, like I know I'm starting to see some of the blind spots I have as a leader.
33:47
Like I'm like, okay, our space is becoming a detriment. You know, like we need to find a more secure location for us to like worship and to like feel present and rather than feeling like we have to get kicked out. You know, at one o'clock we rent from a dance studio, um, and so I know there's some tensions, um, with that, but nothing, if I'm honest, nothing like I'm internalizing, like I've done this horribly. You know it's like, hey, I'm trying to steward what I'm doing well and trying to love the people. If anything, you know, it's just like about adapting to those challenges and pushing forward.
34:19 - Speaker 3
I guess what I was trying to like tease out was like what are some of the mistakes you made that you would go? Back and fix especially for like future church planters. They're like you know. You got to learn from the landlines of previous like church planters no, no, you all just have to do it yourself.
34:35 - Speaker 1
Y'all you have to figure out yourself. One of the things that makes church planting so difficult is I'm a pastor, I am not an entrepreneur. I did not go and get my MBA, I'm not a banker, I don't know finance. I had to learn those things, and so I think some of the mistakes I made is not asking for help in the areas I needed help early on. Now, if I don't know how to do something or don't know how to read something, I'm like okay, teach me how to do this, because I don't know.
35:05
And early days I would try to fake it and that didn't help anyone, especially me. And I think the other thing that I learned outside of that early days was getting the right people on the team that wanted to be fully into the mission, which is hard, because in the beginning of a trip to client you're like everybody, come be a part of this thing we're doing, and everyone's like what are we doing now? And so staffing becomes so important. Early days of church planting, I'm so grateful for the people we had early days. And then you know getting people that now are internal people that you know work at our church. Getting the right people that want to be on the team you know becomes really really increasingly important.
35:47 - Speaker 3
So, looking back at everything that you've been through, a lot of people get into things not realizing what it is, and you know they have great success, but then it like launches them to other stuff. Or they say like it varies, so for you.
36:00 - Speaker 1
Yeah, yeah, yeah, oh, man, For me, like you know, I mean it genuinely like I'll respond to, like what God wants me to do, like I'm going to try and discern that the best. But for me, like I would love to be at this church forever, like that would be like my dream job, and I love what we're doing. I like the challenges, you know, that are before us. I have fear, for sure.
36:27
I have fear and things that hold me back, and you know times when I'm like, man, this is harder than I thought it was going to be. Everybody told me this was going to be hard, but this is still harder than I thought it was going to be. But, man, I'm having the most fun of my life and, like, my family is like all in, like my kids are a part of what we do. I can't imagine, you know, planting a church without them and them being a part of it, and so I'm not, I'm not interested in anything else. I this is like the thing I want to do so that brings me up to your wife.
36:58 - Speaker 3
Like she was cool marrying a pastor you know what?
37:02 - Speaker 1
I wish she was here, because she loves to tell people about I think.
37:06
Uh, we were visiting the town where I went to college, my undergrad and we're talking to my preaching professor, dr Russ York, and he said how do you feel about marrying a pastor one day? I wish she was here to say this, because it sounds fake for me to say it. She said something to the effect of I always felt like there was something I was supposed to call to or supposed to do. In that way, my wife is like she's in it as much as I am into our church and investing into the lives of people, and feels that calling and that burden just as much as I do. There are certain seasons where she has more energy than I do, you know, towards it, but I mean, we feel really strongly that like together is what we're supposed to do. And she's been in the city for 10 years now. I feel like she's fully contextualized, like you know, full New Yorker, and she just loves it. And she's a mom and has a job as a teacher and so her life is very full.
38:07 - Speaker 3
in that sense, you sound like a lucky man.
38:09 - Speaker 1
Thank you, I will tell her. You said that I am a very lucky man and I, um, I take her for granted sometimes, so I thank you for the reminder today, no, that's all right.
38:21 - Speaker 3
That's how you're married. That's the beauty of company you can take for granted all you want. You just can't leave there. You go.
38:27 - Speaker 2
There, you go.
38:33 - Speaker 1
What was the hardest decision you ever had to make in your life? Hardest decision I ever had to make in my life? I feel like the hardest decision I ever had to make was probably when I was graduating from college and was really discerning, like what to do, but like where to do it. I mean, I had like two decent, low-paying options in front of me. I was living, I was living in Manhattan, kansas, and it was like my options were to go back home and to like do a year-long residency at my home church in Phoenix or to to move to Kansas City and, you know, take a year-long job there, and really just like that's so funny that you asked this question, because really what I was doing was I was I remember walking around this park and I remember praying.
39:19
I remember praying like God, I want to do whatever it is that you want me to do, but I need you to speak to me. I really want to hear your voice because I want to respond and I was like, please speak audibly. I was like I want to hear your voice and so I'd walk around this park, city Park. I'd walk around City Park and I would just pray and after a three-hour walk around the park in prayer. I heard nothing and I was like I'm coming tomorrow and I went the next day and I did the exact same thing three hours walking, praying.
39:49
And then at the end of the second day, I was like kind of pissed off. I was like God, I genuinely want to hear your voice. I'm trying to discern what you want me to do. I almost felt ambivalent at that point. I was just like whatever, I'll do whatever. And then on the third day I think probably halfway through, like that time it just struck me. I think I was like you choose, like my will is very open for you in that way and they'll lead to different lives and different paths, but like both are great. And so I was like you know what, like I know what it's like to live in Phoenix, and so I was like I'm going to try this thing out in Kansas City.
40:24 - Speaker 3
No, that's perfect, because that's exactly what I would tell anybody Like you. Don't need to hear his voice, you have his words and, at the end of the day, it doesn't really matter what you do, because God will make it all work for his good. Yeah.
40:39 - Speaker 1
And to that point, I think a huge part of that is not like is like the cultivation of our character, right. Part of that is not like is like the cultivation of our character, right. It's like god actually is really, um, is really interested in who we're becoming, you know, rather than like making perfect decisions, and that's that feels actually very freeing and it feels more to the nature and character of who god is yeah, and also, I think something important in your story is that you kept having an open heart.
41:04 - Speaker 3
you know, know, an open and honest heart and, at the end of the day, that's all he asked.
41:08 - Speaker 1
No, that's great man, that's great. I hope it was helpful. Let me know you know what else is helpful in putting it out and things like that.
41:15 - Speaker 3
All right, that sounds good. Thanks for coming on the podcast. Bye guys, see ya.
41:28 - Speaker 2
Thank you for tuning in to the Faithly Stories podcast. We pray this episode gave you the encouragement you needed to continue on your journey. The Faithly Stories podcast is brought to you by Faithly, an online community committed to empowering church leaders, pastors, staff and volunteers. The Faithly digital platform offers innovative and practical tools and resources to enhance connection, foster collaboration and promote growth within the church and ministry space. Remember to subscribe, rate and review our podcast to help reach more listeners like you. Stay tuned for more uplifting tales from the front lines of ministry on the Faithly Podcast. Stay bold, stay faithful and never underestimate the power of your own story.
I remember praying like God, I want to do whatever it is that you want me to do, but like I need you to speak to me, like I really want to hear your voice because I want to respond, and like I was like please speak audibly. I was like I want to hear your voice and so I'd walk around this park, city Park. I'd walk around City Park and I would just pray. After like a three hour like walk around the park in prayer, I heard nothing and I was like I'm coming tomorrow. And I went the next day and I did the exact same thing Three hours walking, praying. And then at the end of the second day I was like kind of pissed off. I was like God, I genuinely want to hear your voice. I'm trying to discern what you want me to do. I don't. I almost felt ambivalent at that point. I was just like whatever, I just you know I'll do whatever. And then on the third day, I think, probably halfway through that time, it just struck me. I think I was like you choose, my will is very open.
00:49
Hey, my name is Russell Rader. I am a church planter, reunion Church, union Square. I live in Gramercy with my wife, katie, and my two kids, rose and Luther. Five and two, and this is my Faithly story.
01:03 - Speaker 2
Welcome to Faithly Stories, the podcast that brings you inspiring tales from conversations with church leaders as they navigate the peaks and valleys of their faith journeys through their ministry work and everyday life. Join us as we delve into their challenges, moments of encouragement and answered prayers. The Faithly Stories podcast is brought to you by Faithly, an online community committed to empowering church leaders, pastors, staff and volunteers. Learn more at faithlyco. Get ready to be uplifted and inspired as we unveil the heart of faith through stories from the front lines of ministry. On the Faithly Stories podcast.
01:46 - Speaker 3
Tell me how your faith journey started.
01:47 - Speaker 1
Yeah, wow, my faith journey started when I was 12 years old. My mom my mom was single at the time moved across the street from a megachurch in Phoenix, arizona, and so she had grown up pretty Baptist. My dad had grown up Catholic I don't think I could really like name it at the time, but I was just really searching for a father figure and mentor, and this, you know, of course, came after a lot of reflection. But I, we moved across the street from that church and my mom sort of dragged me over there. I had never been to something like that. It was in this, this like tent structure. They actually in Phoenix use these, they're called sprung structures, they use them for casinos. And so I told my mom, like mom, that's not a church, that's a casino. And she was like no, I promise it's a church. And so, um, we went over there.
02:39
Um, you know, there was like hundreds of people in this room and I was like, ah, yeah, I don't really know what that is or if that's for me. But then afterwards she, um, she saw the sign for like this middle school classroom and she was just like you're going and my mom is not like a four school person in that way, but she's like you're going to this class, and so I was like, all right, I guess I'm going. And the first person I met when I walked in would be someone who would mentor me, um for the next six years, um who would spend every week with me um sharing his own journey, um following jesus, and was like he gave his life to me um in in that way and um, it was really kind of all down to after meeting dustin and I'm always I always tell people like for me, I'm the byproduct of like discipleship that's cool.
03:32 - Speaker 3
How'd you meet dustin?
03:33 - Speaker 1
yeah. So like I walked in and literally like dustin was the first person I met and he was like let's hang out, um. So I remember like early days hanging out with Dustin, just like grabbing a Coke after school or like going to McDonald's, and then he would invite me eventually to like a Bible study with the guys from church and the church. That church in particular was very large, like I think at that time it was like 3000 people and but it's crazy because, like I was at that time it was like 3,000 people. But it's crazy because I was at that megachurch but never really felt like I had a megachurch experience. It was like a one-on-one relationship with a person.
04:12 - Speaker 3
Was he just a way leader, or how did he get to know you?
04:15 - Speaker 1
No, no, he was actually on staff as a youth pastor there. He's actually mind-blowing. He's still there, and I don't know how many years ago that was mind-blowing. He's still there, um, and I don't know how many years ago that was.
04:27 - Speaker 3
I was 12. I'm not gonna age myself. That was 23 years ago. Was he doing this to all the other kids or just kind of like a few, or just you?
04:31 - Speaker 1
no, there was a few of us, um, and he like I don't know, he was pretty young at the time too, had a lot of space in his life, but it, what, what it ended up being, which was so cool, was starting my sophomore year. He would take a group of three of us and so like, very, you know, peter, peter and John and James it is I mean, this is bad for the podcast, you know, but the three of us would hang out so Friday mornings, 6 am at McDonald's, and we really were just spending time in scripture. We're reading CS Lewis. He would create challenges for us, which was just crazy. He would.
05:10
One time I remember we got there and he's like, all right, so it's 6 am where I make the haunts. He's like we're going to spend one hour here and we're only saying Scripture, so we would just come up with passages of Scripture that we'd know. He says if we run out of scripture to talk about, then we're going to sit here in silence. This is crazy. And so this was his discipleship process. It was just coming together, read scripture together and, you know, share and know each other in our lives.
05:39 - Speaker 3
That's awesome. That sounds like a similar experience I had in youth group my youth pastor. He was really big into at the time. I didn't even call it discipleship, it was just like church. But there was one like year we went to church like literally six days a week because it was just something every like in the summer and it was like the best boot camp I ever had, like when we retreat it was like five days and we literally read through the new testament half the time.
06:02
I was sleeping because it was on tape and I was like, but like you know, it was just how old are you? Yeah, yeah, dude, I'm probably older than you. But just that immersive experience. And then, only when I got out, I didn't realize how unique that experience was so for you. When, during that process, did you like realize?
06:22 - Speaker 1
oh jesus is for you. Yeah, I mean, if I'm honest, it was like right, like my life was. So. I mean, I was 12, 7th grade. I, you know, I go to this church. Here's somebody who cares about me, who sees me, and I'm like wow, like I think there's something to this and so in a lot of ways I tell people like I think for me in my journey and in my childhood and like navigating my parents' divorce, like Jesus came into my life at a unique moment of need where I needed someone to like care for me, deeply, right where I was, and within six months I was baptized.
06:59
A year and a half later I was like I think God is calling me to full-time ministry, which what you know ninth grader knows to full-time ministry, which what, what you know ninth grader knows what full-time ministry looks like. I thought being a youth pastor was like, you know, going to walmart and shopping and then like hanging out with kids and playing video games. So I'm like who doesn't been called to that? You know what I think it was. You know, subtly, those, those little challenges and those unique opportunities to be seen and cared for, was like that was actually all God's hand at work in my life. Those were all God, you know, in the background, working out his will for me.
07:32 - Speaker 3
So for you, like Dustin was a prominent male figure, but did you have other people and how did that shape you and how did that help you understand that word father?
07:42 - Speaker 1
Because a lot of times when you have a bad relationship with your father and people say god is your father, it's like a negative, like visceral reaction yeah, yeah, you know, it's so fun to think about, like the ways that I always felt a lacking in that area, where and sometimes it was just a disconnect like my dad was so different and my mom would always say to me you know, think about your dad and focus on the positive things about your dad. She was like very pro dad in that way and and then I, you know, I felt like that like kind of emptiness there. And then Paul even says it in in second Corinthians, like he says you, you've had 10,000 teachers, but you haven't had many fathers. And I always felt like, for me as like a young man, that's the gap that God consistently used to show me he was faithful, and so it was just like dusting. And then I got to college and right away I met a guy who was always inviting me over to his house and just inviting me into his family dinners on Sunday nights.
08:43
My junior and senior year, my preaching professor in my undergrad was like a father figure to me, really kind and caring. We ended up our class was kind of small senior year, our preaching class, and so he would just take us to coffee and we would meet over coffee. That was on Fridays too. And then my first job as a pastor. I came out of college. I was pastoring very young, I was 22. I was pastor at this church and my first boss was like a father figure to me still is to this day. So yeah, that sort of weakness for me, as though I felt, was a place where, like God's strength came into my life for sure.
09:23 - Speaker 3
You being a father. Now like how does that translate? Do you realize it's harder than you realize?
09:29 - Speaker 1
or like yeah, yeah Well, I mean, there's so much to say there. Daniel, you know, the first thing I'll say is at 5.15, I go home. I go home at 5.15 because I want to. I want to be home with my kids, I want to be present for them and I want to be available to them. But I think maybe the other thing to say is that it's made me as, like, a son. It's made me more gracious, you know, towards my own parents for their shortcomings and their failures. And you know, just try to kind of live in that space a little more free, done a lot of healing in that area. I feel like for my own kids it's like I'm going to mess them up in some way. I just want to be able to apologize and ask for forgiveness from them. Just try to show up more.
10:18 - Speaker 3
What were some of the steps that helped you heal?
10:21 - Speaker 1
Well, I mean, there was a season that I could share. One I didn't share about is when I got married nine years ago. We got married. I'm so excited to be a husband.
10:32
And then I kind of came to that realization like how do I be a husband? Like what does that really look like? You know, I don't want to live into everyone around me's story, like how do I do that? Well, in my own way. And I realized I had it modeled to me from some people and there were some positive things from my own father but really needed to tune into what that looks like. What does it mean to be a husband? What does it mean to be a man? What does it mean to eventually be a father?
11:01
So I started reading. I picked up a bunch of books. A book by a guy named john sours manhood journey uh, was like a really healing to me. I was just telling someone about it recently. Um, richard roars, um, adam's return you know the five crucial steps of of, um, you know becoming a man. Picking up some of these resources were really really healing to me.
11:26
But then also lamenting what I didn't have and what wasn't modeled to me and not being okay. I felt deficient in those areas because it wasn't modeled to me. Intense therapy, counseling I was really good, but I would say like an intentional season of like learning and leaning in and, you know, telling my wife like I don't necessarily know how to do that right, like my wife would tell me like, oh, you're just, you know, this is the feeling you're having. I'm like I didn't know that yet, honey, you know I didn't catch that. You knew my feeling before I did, because I was detached from it and so letting her sort of both of us learning like I can take that in and she can deliver it a little bit differently.
12:11 - Speaker 3
That's awesome. It's nice to have a partner who can house things off Sometimes. Sometimes it doesn't feel great in the moment, but no, it doesn't.
12:22 - Speaker 1
My wife and I. I was pastoring a church in Kansas City. My wife was living here in was pastoring a church in Kansas City. My wife was living here in New York, but my wife is from Kansas City and so we were in a wedding together. We're both in the wedding. And my friend who was getting married was like do you want to meet your wife at my wedding? And I was like, sure, man, that's how it's going to work. Sure, and so my now wife was in the wedding. We met there. I knew she was leaving two days later back to New York and so I was like I've got to get on a date with her tomorrow. And so the day after the wedding we went on a seven-hour date. Like two weeks later we were dating. I was up here in the city like a couple months later and the rest is sort of history, but yeah.
13:08 - Speaker 3
Wait, where'd you grow up? You grew up in Arizona.
13:16 - Speaker 1
Yeah, so I grew up in Arizona. I went to school, I went to a Bible college called Manhattan Christian College in Manhattan, kansas of all places it exists and then after college I moved to Kansas City and I was there for seven years pastoring a church, and so my wife is from Kansas City.
13:30 - Speaker 3
Was that the first church you were pastoring after college?
13:33 - Speaker 1
Yeah, yeah, I was there for seven years. It was like a wonderful, like it was like a foundational place for me to go and serve a lot of opportunities. I was a really young pastor, I was single and it was just a really solid place for me.
13:49 - Speaker 3
What did you end up doing?
13:49 - Speaker 1
there, let's see my title. Ironically enough, I don't really recommend this for a job description. My title was the everything else guy and Daniel. You may know what this is like actually.
14:03 - Speaker 3
Yeah, you're a gopher, go for this yeah, no, I really was I.
14:07 - Speaker 1
I served in a youth ministry for a year and a half. Um, I was, I oversaw, uh, all of our community groups. Uh, I, I was, I was preaching and by the time I was leaving, I was preaching twice a month there, and so it really was actually. What it really was was a great um learning for church planting. This is what it was. My boss was like I think you're a church planter. He was really always very open with me and very thoughtful in that way, looking forward.
14:37 - Speaker 3
When did you go to seminary?
14:38 - Speaker 1
When did I go to seminary? I went to Fuller Theological Seminary from 2000 to 2020.
14:45 - Speaker 3
Five years hybrid, mostly online was that right after bible college, because I thought there was a gap no, there was a gap, so I went to um.
14:53 - Speaker 1
I graduated from bible college in 2000 and then, after about five years in ministry, I was like I think it would be good for me to get some more theological training. My church tradition didn't uh, I didn't need a lot more um like background and training, but I just I thought continuing ed would be good for me, and so, um, I went to fuller no, you did the right way.
15:14
I always tell people don't go right after undergrad because yeah it's you need life experience and like you need church experience you know, and and for me, I I agree, and I also think that like going to fuller while I, while I was in ministry for a season, and then also preparing to plant, was really good. I mean, I was fleshing out a lot of ideas and thinking about worship, expression and social justice issues, and there's just so many things you're thinking about simultaneously, and so I was actually like it was the perfect scenario for me.
15:45 - Speaker 3
So when you're a pastor was like, hey, you should church plant. Did you understand what that is? Because church planting is like startups People think it's glamorous until you do it, and then you're like, oh wait, we're always almost dying.
15:57 - Speaker 1
Wow, okay, you know church plants, you know he yes and no, you know. I mean, I think it was like it was like 2012, 2013,. I think church planting in that season was a little more sexy too. You know, we started going to Exponential, the church planting conference, and it was like if you're an awesome, successful pastor, then you can plant a church, you know. And then 2015, 2016 came around.
16:21
It was like I don't think that's the way church planting, you know, works anymore. Think that's the way church planting, you know works anymore. And so I think I have been around enough of that world, enough of you know, taking on a campus of our church, closing a campus of our church, to really kind of take in what it meant. And I feel as though we were, we were really open in that season to trying to figure out, like discerning, what that meant for us. But yeah, I think, all in all, the training I was getting at that church was preparing me for whatever was next for us. And that church, I mean the amazing thing about it was they really held loosely to us. I mean they were just like we're open to you know God's calling on your life. I was like wow, because I was taking on more and more responsibility at the church too something that recently I've been changing my mind on is even the word church planting.
17:12
I think it's more proper to nuance it as church birthing, because planting is like you kind of plant it and you kind of walk away, but birthing is like you kind of have to like incubate it a bit and then let it go, and I think that's just a better model of like getting churches built well, I mean, especially if you think about I was just telling this to a friend I met we work right now and so there's like all these tech startups you know around us and you know, when you think about like tech startup world, a lot of them are like you know, like we're self-made, like you know we built this thing from the ground up.
17:43
Then you know, then they sell it for 100 million dollars or whatever. That's the goal and I'm like, actually, if I'm honest, we are anything but self-made. As a church planter, I am standing on the shoulders of other people. I'm propped up by Dustin and by Brian, my old boss, or by Jordan Rice up at Renaissance in Harlem. We're the byproduct of their discipleship and their cultivation and then, quite frankly, their financial support and their like coaching, and so I like that. So maybe in your metaphor, those, all those mentors are just they're actually just doulas, you know, helping, helping birth this church.
18:24 - Speaker 3
That means a servant or slave in Greek.
18:28 - Speaker 1
There you go, perfect, you have no idea what he's talking about.
18:31 - Speaker 3
So is reunion church the church you planted? Yeah?
18:36 - Speaker 1
and so we planted. We officially launched in 2020, september of 22. Prior to that, I was at renaissance church, um, doing church planting residency up in harlem wonderful, wonderful, wonderful place. I mean again in terms of coming to New York dreaming about planting a church, really submitting to the process. When we moved here, I was like I'm just going to get a job. I don't know if our church planting journey is starting a year from now or starting five years from now. And so I got a job at Blue Bottle Coffee and I was just a barista, but actually I was doing life contextualization work. I was asking questions. I put all these questions in my back pocket so I could ask my co-workers or customers that would come in. And then we're working at Renaissance for 18 months before they sent us out to plant reunion. But the problem was I was like late 2019, early 2020. And so it was an interesting season, to say the least.
19:34 - Speaker 3
So how did you get connected to Renaissance?
19:37 - Speaker 1
Actually a handful of ways. Our church planting organization for reunion and Renaissance is the same. It's called the Orchard Group. They've been planting churches in New york since the 1940s actually, and so that was part of the connection because I knew I knew jordan and renaissance through the orchard group, um. But also we had a handful of friends. My wife, from being in college at nyu, had a lot of friends that had started going to church in renaissance at renaissance so you went from casey to renaissance to do like a residency kind of church.
20:08
No, no actually um, a little little maybe stupid on my part is like I came from kansas city with no job and moved to new york and went to blue bottle and then, you know, got connected to um renaissance and they were really gracious to to take us in, a white guy, into a predominantly black church.
20:29 - Speaker 3
So good times sounds stupid, we call that faith yes and yeah no, I agree.
20:36 - Speaker 1
I, you know I mean.
20:37
They even told me when I got there, like you're wild, to bring your pregnant wife you know, to the, to the city, to, you know, find the church, and I was just like I think you know, I think this is what I'm you know, I was really still discerning that calling to church and I was just like I think you know, I think this is what I'm, you know, I was really still discerning that calling to church plants, I think, and just trying to do the, you know, do the next faithful step thing as I could.
20:55 - Speaker 3
Yeah, I hear that, even when you express like your job at blue bottle and taking that as an opportunity just to get to know like non-church people and what's going on, because I think that should be normal, but the fact that it's not normal, like you're just a christian but you're also just a normal person, so you've got to like shut it on and off, so I love that well and and if I'm honest, I was I was learning at and learning residency like contextual ministry, like urban ministry at renaissance.
21:23 - Speaker 1
I was doing just as much at blue bottle and figuring out what are the hopes of people in the city, what are the dreams? Um, you know, someone is, is grinding on broadway or has this creative endeavor and, you know, wants to do jazz in the city. What, whatever that was, they want to create an app and they're working this side gig. At the same time, I'm learning. What are the questions, what are the people really searching for and what are the overarching cultural narratives that I have to tune into as a person and a pastor so I can really care about people and if I'm really listening to people's story and journey and figuring out where does God intersect with this person's story.
22:05
I actually started doing it after a little while, before I did it anywhere, and they would say they would tell me. You know like they would ask me crazy questions. I'd be like making a latte with a coworker and it'd be like hey Russell, am I going to hell? I'm like I don't know. You know, pass me the oatmeal though, you know, and so it was a really good cultivation of of my own expression as a pastor outside of the church context.
22:32 - Speaker 3
If someone asked me that but you're like, only if you want to, that'd be good, I love it. So, looking back, what do you feel like you learned in KC, but you learned differently in Renaissanceissance, mainly because, just like, the cities are very different and I don't think people understand how different new york is and how different manhattan is from, like, the rest of the country manhattan is mars man.
22:57 - Speaker 1
I mean, this is like it's. In one sense, it's like I took some of the like pastoral, like essential things that I learned along the way, some of like the biblical essential things. You know, I kept a lot of those and and to, you know, my uh, my boss in kansas city. He, he was so good at like organizational feedback and, um, very like missions minded, so I was able to travel with him, um, to europe and to africa and so like there were some things that translate, but, like so many of the other, like family-centric cultural narratives are just like those are not helpful. They were helpful in kansas city, but they're not helpful years, um, necessarily, yeah, I would just say, like re-evaluating the dreams and the desires of people, the work-centric nature of new york, like the willingness to grind and like put yourself out there, but I don't know, like, maybe something like the actual like time and rhythms are, you know, are different too.
23:59
Like when I moved here, I was always trying to get people to like I'll, I'll meet someone. I'll be. Like let's grab coffee 630. And they're like, yeah, no, like let's get drinks. I'm like, nah, I'm like, I'm gonna bed at 930.
24:12
Like I'm old, you know, yeah, so I would say everything is different.
24:16 - Speaker 3
Yeah, no one wakes up early, unless you have to or you're working in the market.
24:20 - Speaker 1
Even me now. Like I'm like my alarm clock is like know, like two year old, but pretty soon, like he's gonna sleep in more, I'm gonna be sleeping in too so.
24:30 - Speaker 3
So when you planted a reunion, did you take a core team from renaissance, or how did that work for you?
24:37 - Speaker 1
yeah they were, they were absolutely wonderful. I mean, um, jordan the pastor there was always so kind to say like hey, if you live downtown, you know somebody downtown you want to go with Russell, Like go, go, go.
24:51
And that you know, we had a handful of people, you know, respond to that, which was great, but I think even the relational network that you get from that over time is actually the valuable. You know, the valuable thing is actually the valuable. You know, the valuable thing. Our unique tension was, you know, gathering up that core team of people and then COVID hitting the city. I mean, that was the part that was just devastating, because one of the things that we did in terms of like strategy was like hey, what kind of relational network do we have? Do we have like good momentum?
25:22
And so December of 2019, 2019, we were just like we're just going to throw a christmas party and, um, we're just going to see what kind of network we really have. And so we had 75 people show up to that christmas party. They weren't all going to be a part of the church, but it was an idea of like how could we come about ground, show the name of our church and say that we're coming in the fall of next year? And we were like that was a good thing, it was successful. So we started gathering people over dinner at our home, january, february, march. And then COVID struck and it was just like. The last gathering we had was like March 15th, 16th, something like that. It was like 18 people in our living room and we were going around the table sharing like what is like a story of like hope, if you have one that you want to share right now, and like, maybe, a fear that you have around this new thing called the coronavirus. And that was our prompt, you know, for that dinner that night.
26:19 - Speaker 3
So did COVID delay your launch.
26:21 - Speaker 1
Oh yeah, definitely, you know we. We shifted to like, you know, online core team meetings and, you know, in that season, if you're familiar with church planting, it's like you got to go as wide as possible. Figure out the relational network, um, cast like a wide net to as many people as you can to tell them about what you're doing. And like go meet as many people as possible. And COVID is like here's the goal of COVID Don't talk to anybody in person. And so, instead of like going wide, it was like all right, we have to go deep with the people we have.
26:52
And so there were some positives and I think, for me as a pastor and in that season, like I'm motivated you know I'm a go-getter and I feel really stifled. I felt there was a lot of like lament, of like big vision and big goals, of like hey, those, some of those things actually need to die in you, and like some of the like launch, large metrics need to actually be tempered so that you can be in a place where you leave the fruit up to God. Fruit matters. But it was a season where it was like okay, I can actually let go of some of those things and carry it off the people in front of me, and so there was, there was some, really there was some rich stuff that came out of that season yeah, I'm being convinced more and more.
27:38 - Speaker 3
Fruit is not something we see, fruit is something we experience and I think, yeah, somewhere along the lines like, like god's been. Really it's weird because it has a similarity to ai and the neural network and how your brain works, and I feel like he's like literally reconnecting all my understanding of just like the kingdom and so one thing that's been constantly popping up is like god does not need us to be great. He's great, right what?
28:03
he needs are good servants, good sons and daughters, and as long as I'm being good wherever I am, he's going to do the great thing.
28:12 - Speaker 1
Yeah, and the gift of ministry is that we steward that. We like just doling out God's grace left and right, and it's like such an honor to be able to do that. So I would sit with our core team in that season and I mean I wasn't like gushing out like all my mess, but there were times that I would just come more honest, like hey, guys, like I don't, you know, sure, we should talk about strategies for evangelism, but also I like I I'm like I'm having a hard week and like I think we need to pray for one another. And there were times where I was now to being like, hey, we have to push the goal forward, but like how do we care about the people that are on the call? And I would mess up. You know I'll be like, hey, we're going to. You know, talk about, you know what it looks like to train teams, you know when we can launch. And it was just like that's not what we needed to talk about tonight. And so it was.
29:01
I'm grateful for the season. I know it was absolutely tragic for so many people, but I was, I was really grateful that it slowed me down. It was, it was healing for me in a lot of ways. And then I was reorienting. You know how to be a dad in that season to having a two year old. While you're trying to plant a church over zoom at home, you're just like you caught. I felt like a failure all the time and um, and so it's just a lot of, a lot of the math it's a good place to be because it keeps you humble.
29:32 - Speaker 3
Yeah, yeah, hopefully god knows what he's doing. Yes, so even as you talk about that like something I've been trying to self-discipline and keep it as a routine, is just this understanding that I can't think too far, that I need to focus on today because something might change tomorrow in my plant. It goes all to you know.
29:54
So it's just like, yeah, I have a trajectory yeah, every single day I'm faithful to today, and then only when I look back I'm like, oh, I didn't even calculate this, but like just being faithful, god kind of just stacked them.
30:07 - Speaker 1
Yeah, yeah, that makes total sense.
30:09 - Speaker 3
So when you planted in your mind, did you have a specific DNA or culture you wanted to cultivate, like what makes Reunion unique?
30:19 - Speaker 1
Yeah, yeah, I mean part of our DNA as a church comes out of that season. Yeah, I mean part of our DNA as a church comes out of that season. You know, I mean, if you want to recall the season, it's like it's not just COVID but it's social justice issues. You know, george Floyd, black Lives Matter. It's like churches in crisis where pastors are lacking integrity and scandalous surrounding church leaders and so all of those things sort of shaped who we are as a church now.
30:47
And so, like I'm not going to just go through these, like in our newcomers class or our membership class, like one of the questions we get asked is like Russell, who are you accountable to?
30:58
And one of the things I had to really think through is like well, people are asking if they're safe in our church, and so that's like an undertone. Like as a pastor that I'm more and more sensitive to, people are wondering like is this like some willy nilly, like cult kind of thing and helping people see, like that we genuinely want to get to the heart of Jesus? And so, like we launched our church preaching through the book of Mark, saying who's the real and raw Jesus, and like just try to go after that. And I'm sharing stories about how like we want to be a safe place. And then, on the social justice issue side of things, it's like our church is not seeing it as not seeing those things as separate from evangelism, but actually tools for evangelism. That that our community is really serious one about following Jesus, yes, but to genuinely seeking the good of our city and so like those things seep into everything that we do. So that that was also so pivotal in that season to really cultivate the heartbeat of our community.
32:04 - Speaker 3
Where's your church located Union Square, 13th Street and what time is your service? 11 am. So it's only been about two years, yeah, okay, so like what has been going really well and what has been not going well?
32:17 - Speaker 1
Yeah, yeah, yeah. What has been going well, what has not been going well? Daniel, I am blown away at the type of people that come to my church. I am just blown away by how they're like how do I say this? How rooted in the gospel people are in my community and I get to be a part of that, like their life and their journey and their story and how capable they are. You know, of course, you know we're all wrestling with our own immaturity and learning and growing, but I just look around at our community and I'm like they're a part of our church. I would choose to be friends with them even if we weren't like in community together. And so I just am always blown away by the type of people that are around our church, the way that they are genuinely trying to love their neighbor and you know how they're prayerful for, like our church, how they take ownership of what we're doing as a community.
33:16
What's not going well? I would say in any entrepreneurial endeavor, you don't, you don't get to control more. You know so many things, and so at times I'm like, okay, am I heading in the right direction? And I can, you know, feel sort of insecure as a leader like am I doing the right thing and am I leading in the right way? And I think, over time, you know, doing this two and a half years, you know I'm like, okay, like I know I'm starting to see some of the blind spots I have as a leader.
33:47
Like I'm like, okay, our space is becoming a detriment. You know, like we need to find a more secure location for us to like worship and to like feel present and rather than feeling like we have to get kicked out. You know, at one o'clock we rent from a dance studio, um, and so I know there's some tensions, um, with that, but nothing, if I'm honest, nothing like I'm internalizing, like I've done this horribly. You know it's like, hey, I'm trying to steward what I'm doing well and trying to love the people. If anything, you know, it's just like about adapting to those challenges and pushing forward.
34:19 - Speaker 3
I guess what I was trying to like tease out was like what are some of the mistakes you made that you would go? Back and fix especially for like future church planters. They're like you know. You got to learn from the landlines of previous like church planters no, no, you all just have to do it yourself.
34:35 - Speaker 1
Y'all you have to figure out yourself. One of the things that makes church planting so difficult is I'm a pastor, I am not an entrepreneur. I did not go and get my MBA, I'm not a banker, I don't know finance. I had to learn those things, and so I think some of the mistakes I made is not asking for help in the areas I needed help early on. Now, if I don't know how to do something or don't know how to read something, I'm like okay, teach me how to do this, because I don't know.
35:05
And early days I would try to fake it and that didn't help anyone, especially me. And I think the other thing that I learned outside of that early days was getting the right people on the team that wanted to be fully into the mission, which is hard, because in the beginning of a trip to client you're like everybody, come be a part of this thing we're doing, and everyone's like what are we doing now? And so staffing becomes so important. Early days of church planting, I'm so grateful for the people we had early days. And then you know getting people that now are internal people that you know work at our church. Getting the right people that want to be on the team you know becomes really really increasingly important.
35:47 - Speaker 3
So, looking back at everything that you've been through, a lot of people get into things not realizing what it is, and you know they have great success, but then it like launches them to other stuff. Or they say like it varies, so for you.
36:00 - Speaker 1
Yeah, yeah, yeah, oh, man, For me, like you know, I mean it genuinely like I'll respond to, like what God wants me to do, like I'm going to try and discern that the best. But for me, like I would love to be at this church forever, like that would be like my dream job, and I love what we're doing. I like the challenges, you know, that are before us. I have fear, for sure.
36:27
I have fear and things that hold me back, and you know times when I'm like, man, this is harder than I thought it was going to be. Everybody told me this was going to be hard, but this is still harder than I thought it was going to be. But, man, I'm having the most fun of my life and, like, my family is like all in, like my kids are a part of what we do. I can't imagine, you know, planting a church without them and them being a part of it, and so I'm not, I'm not interested in anything else. I this is like the thing I want to do so that brings me up to your wife.
36:58 - Speaker 3
Like she was cool marrying a pastor you know what?
37:02 - Speaker 1
I wish she was here, because she loves to tell people about I think.
37:06
Uh, we were visiting the town where I went to college, my undergrad and we're talking to my preaching professor, dr Russ York, and he said how do you feel about marrying a pastor one day? I wish she was here to say this, because it sounds fake for me to say it. She said something to the effect of I always felt like there was something I was supposed to call to or supposed to do. In that way, my wife is like she's in it as much as I am into our church and investing into the lives of people, and feels that calling and that burden just as much as I do. There are certain seasons where she has more energy than I do, you know, towards it, but I mean, we feel really strongly that like together is what we're supposed to do. And she's been in the city for 10 years now. I feel like she's fully contextualized, like you know, full New Yorker, and she just loves it. And she's a mom and has a job as a teacher and so her life is very full.
38:07 - Speaker 3
in that sense, you sound like a lucky man.
38:09 - Speaker 1
Thank you, I will tell her. You said that I am a very lucky man and I, um, I take her for granted sometimes, so I thank you for the reminder today, no, that's all right.
38:21 - Speaker 3
That's how you're married. That's the beauty of company you can take for granted all you want. You just can't leave there. You go.
38:27 - Speaker 2
There, you go.
38:33 - Speaker 1
What was the hardest decision you ever had to make in your life? Hardest decision I ever had to make in my life? I feel like the hardest decision I ever had to make was probably when I was graduating from college and was really discerning, like what to do, but like where to do it. I mean, I had like two decent, low-paying options in front of me. I was living, I was living in Manhattan, kansas, and it was like my options were to go back home and to like do a year-long residency at my home church in Phoenix or to to move to Kansas City and, you know, take a year-long job there, and really just like that's so funny that you asked this question, because really what I was doing was I was I remember walking around this park and I remember praying.
39:19
I remember praying like God, I want to do whatever it is that you want me to do, but I need you to speak to me. I really want to hear your voice because I want to respond and I was like, please speak audibly. I was like I want to hear your voice and so I'd walk around this park, city Park. I'd walk around City Park and I would just pray and after a three-hour walk around the park in prayer. I heard nothing and I was like I'm coming tomorrow and I went the next day and I did the exact same thing three hours walking, praying.
39:49
And then at the end of the second day, I was like kind of pissed off. I was like God, I genuinely want to hear your voice. I'm trying to discern what you want me to do. I almost felt ambivalent at that point. I was just like whatever, I'll do whatever. And then on the third day I think probably halfway through, like that time it just struck me. I think I was like you choose, like my will is very open for you in that way and they'll lead to different lives and different paths, but like both are great. And so I was like you know what, like I know what it's like to live in Phoenix, and so I was like I'm going to try this thing out in Kansas City.
40:24 - Speaker 3
No, that's perfect, because that's exactly what I would tell anybody Like you. Don't need to hear his voice, you have his words and, at the end of the day, it doesn't really matter what you do, because God will make it all work for his good. Yeah.
40:39 - Speaker 1
And to that point, I think a huge part of that is not like is like the cultivation of our character, right. Part of that is not like is like the cultivation of our character, right. It's like god actually is really, um, is really interested in who we're becoming, you know, rather than like making perfect decisions, and that's that feels actually very freeing and it feels more to the nature and character of who god is yeah, and also, I think something important in your story is that you kept having an open heart.
41:04 - Speaker 3
you know, know, an open and honest heart and, at the end of the day, that's all he asked.
41:08 - Speaker 1
No, that's great man, that's great. I hope it was helpful. Let me know you know what else is helpful in putting it out and things like that.
41:15 - Speaker 3
All right, that sounds good. Thanks for coming on the podcast. Bye guys, see ya.
41:28 - Speaker 2
Thank you for tuning in to the Faithly Stories podcast. We pray this episode gave you the encouragement you needed to continue on your journey. The Faithly Stories podcast is brought to you by Faithly, an online community committed to empowering church leaders, pastors, staff and volunteers. The Faithly digital platform offers innovative and practical tools and resources to enhance connection, foster collaboration and promote growth within the church and ministry space. Remember to subscribe, rate and review our podcast to help reach more listeners like you. Stay tuned for more uplifting tales from the front lines of ministry on the Faithly Podcast. Stay bold, stay faithful and never underestimate the power of your own story.
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