Falling in Love With Children’s Ministry - Virginia Brennan

00:00 - Speaker 1 Welcome to Faithly Stories, the podcast that brings you inspiring tales from conversations with church leaders as they navigate the peaks and valleys of their faith journeys through their ministry work and everyday life. Join us as we delve into their challenges, moments of encouragement and answered prayers. The Faithly Stories podcast is brought to you by Faithly, an online community committed to empowering church leaders, pastors, staff and volunteers. Learn more at faithlyco. Get ready to be uplifted and inspired as we unveil the heart of faith through stories from the front lines of ministry. On the Faithly Stories podcast. 00:42 - Speaker 2 Could you tell me a little bit of how your faith journey started? 00:46 - Speaker 3 I came to know Christ at Vacation Bible School at my grandmother's church. My grandmother took me to church with her growing up and it was at the summer between third and fourth grade. I heard a very clear gospel presentation about our sin and about our need for forgiveness from Jesus, and I understood as a nine-year-old child that I was a sinner and that I needed that forgiveness they were talking about. I was very, very shy, I did not want to go talk to an adult that I didn't know. But in like, the pew in front of us were kids who were a year younger than us, and I saw my best friend's little brother and he responded during this invitation time to accept Christ as an adult and I thought, well, if he's not afraid, then why am I afraid? And so, um, I accepted Christ during VBS that summer. 01:39 Um, I later, when I was about 13, 14 years old, got involved in a church that I consider to be my home church, was there through my teenage and college years. In college, felt called to vocational ministry, ended up going to seminary and during that time in seminary really fell in love with children's ministry and just understood the importance and the value of reaching kids young and helping them build a foundation of faith really from their earliest days to carry with them into adulthood. And so I've done a few different things, but I've mostly been in vocational ministry children's ministry since then. 02:21 - Speaker 2 So what was it about at the age of nine that, like sin hit you, you know, to a point where you realize I need a savior? Yeah, like. And what was the sin in ninth grade, I mean not exactly at nine years old? 02:36 - Speaker 3 um, you know, I had already been attending church, um, with my grandma already. So I've been, you know, going to church, going to sunday school. So I'd already been hearing some of these messages and hearing some about the gospel and about Jesus. They explained it the way. I think it was the youth pastor probably at that time he had this little cutout of a little paper person and he scribbled on it with a Sharpie marker and he said this paper person can't get rid of this Sharpie marker, any more than we can get rid of our own sin. We need Jesus to forgive us, you know, to be our Lord and our Savior. 03:17 And so, I mean, even as a nine-year-old, I knew I had disobeyed, like I knew I had disobeyed my parents, I knew I disobeyed my teachers. So, you know, I knew I had disobeyed, like I knew I had disobeyed my parents, I knew I disobeyed my teachers. So, you know, I knew that I hadn't done everything right and I had experienced, you know, feelings of, you know, disobeying or doing something that was wrong or telling a lie and then feeling guilty about it. And so I knew that I was a sinner and I wasn't perfect. I had done things that were wrong. 03:46 And I mean whenever I talk about it with children, whenever I have conviction, and feeling conviction I say it almost felt like a physical, like God was squeezing on my heart. It was so pressing and I just knew that I needed to respond in that moment and respond in obedience and follow Jesus. And so so, yeah, so it was. You know, the gospel was explained to us kids at VBS in a way that was very understandable for us, and then the Holy Spirit just convicted and led me to salvation. So very grateful, very grateful for VBS. And so to this day, I like to share my testimony with VBS volunteers and just really encourage people that children's ministry makes an eternal difference in the lives of kids and families. 04:41 - Speaker 2 So how do you go from that at nine to seminary and in between, like, what did walking with jesus look like for you? 04:49 - Speaker 3 I got involved in my home church when I was, whenever I was about 13 or 14, I started learning. Um started learning consistently, like in sunday school classes. Um started learning about spiritual disciplines and having a daily quiet time and reading my Bible each day. Um, and then from there I went into college not knowing what I wanted to do. I um growing up I was kind of a not kind of. I definitely was like a nerd. I love stuff like Model United Nations and you know. 05:27 I was a math elite and like all that kind of stuff and I thought going into college. I thought, well, I think law school and being a lawyer is something that I could do and I really don't know what else to do. So I'm just going to kind of move in that direction. 05:45 - Speaker 2 I was very involved Before we get to college stuff. What made you interested in like Model UN? Because it's interesting that you at a young age were kind of interested in political dynamics, but even now no one cares about politics because it's so divisive. So it's like are you like, oh, I love debating and like like getting into it? Or are you like, oh, this is cool about like geopolitical stuff? 06:11 - Speaker 3 a pre-existing model un program at our school. Um, my friends and I just kind of got into it. Um, we definitely did the research elements, um of you know researching. You know you pick a country that you're going to represent and so researching that country and you know researching, you know different issues that were going on at that time and so it was just, it was just an activity that we had at our school that my friends and I got involved in and just enjoyed doing, because, you know, we enjoyed just that kind of international stuff. 06:48 I ended up, throughout my 20s, going on a lot of international mission trips as well. So I don't know if that, I don't know if those two are connected necessarily, but it was just something we did for fun. What country did you research we did for fun. What country did you research? It's it's been a long time since I was in high school. Um, I think we I did it two or three years and we were a different country each year. I want to say that I was like, I think, angola in africa one year. Um, I think it was germ one year. So it's and it's been a long time and the world was a different place, you know 20 years ago, nearly 20 years ago, when I was in high school. 07:37 - Speaker 2 So was it the fun part of being with your friends or was there something actually about like understanding different cultures and countries? 07:43 - Speaker 3 both because that same group of students we also did um this program called we the people, which was like similar to united, to model un, but for like united states, um, like politics and policy, um, both of those um and got to, you know, travel to different events and competitions and that kind of thing. So we did, I did at least enjoy the research elements and writing and composing arguments, which is kind of why I leaned toward law school and college, just that writing and research and composing arguments and ideas. But then, yeah, there was also the element of doing it with my friends, which was fun. 08:34 - Speaker 2 So are you interested in politics now, or is that like in the past? 08:40 - Speaker 3 I would say definitely. Whenever I was in college I ended up serving. I served at our church in our Wednesday night at Juana ministry. I was very involved in our college group at church. We had an on-campus organization, baptist Collegiate Ministry. I was very involved in that and I just I loved doing all of that. And I just I loved doing all of that and I kind of, at the same time as I was taking practice LSATs, I was also thinking, man, I would love to just take a couple years and like go work at a BCM on a college campus for a couple years before I, you know like, have to go to law school. What's a BCM, a college campus? For a couple years before I, you know like, have to go to law school, what's a BCM? 09:35 I was at our BCM, our Baptist Collegiate Ministry. We had an event on Wednesdays where we would serve lunch for a dollar and we'd have guest speakers and a local children's minister was sharing her testimony about feeling called into locational ministry in college and as she was sharing her story, for me it was just kind of like a bolt of lightning. I was like, oh, I think that's maybe what God is doing in my life, you know. After that, I started talking to my college pastor, our BCM. After that I I started talking to um, but my college pastor, um, our BCM director and assistant directors, um, and I was like I think, you know, I think this is what God's doing in my life. And so from there, I ultimately made the decision to pivot and go to seminary in scrap law school. 10:22 - Speaker 2 So wait. So what was it about her story that resonated with you, or what point in the story? 10:30 - Speaker 3 Just hearing about her experience and just realizing that I think that what God did in her life, calling her into ministry, was what God was doing in my life as well, and one of the things that she said because there's a lot of it that I don't remember in particular, but there is one thing that she said. She said remember that you are always foremost called to Christ. Your assignment and what you're called to do may change over the course of your life, but remember that your foremost calling is always to Christ. And so that I've definitely never forgotten. But just listening to her story, I just identified with it and I was just like wait, what's God doing in my life? 11:16 - Speaker 2 That's so good. So in seminary did you think you're going to always go into children's, or was it just kind of like an open field? 11:25 - Speaker 3 I came out of college loving collegiate ministry just because I'd loved my own experience so so much, it had been so good for me. But I went straight into a preschool and children's ministry internship when I started on my master's degree and that was really where I was like. And that was really where I was like, oh, wait a second. If we can effectively reach and teach kids here and give them a firm foundation in God's word, then by the time they get to college we're not having to, you know, uproot a foundation that isn't going to last and that you know isn't built on. You know, the solid rock of Christ. If we can give them that from childhood, what a gift, what a gift to give our children. And so it was during that time when I started on my master's degree and doing that internship, where I was like, oh, this is so important. And so that was really what changed my trajectory into children's ministry. 12:29 - Speaker 2 So you seem like a person that loves analytical thinking and logical consistency just based on you know, did you ever run into challenges in seminary or had questions, or was it kind of a breeze? 12:42 - Speaker 3 intellectually, or at least theologically it's kind of a yes and no um, in that I mean, there are always going to be so many things about god and about his attributes that we're not going to be able to fully understand and reconcile, and so I think some of that was just accepting you, you know, just accepting me, like okay, like I'm never going to fully understand God and I wouldn't want a God that I can fully understand, because then he wouldn't be worthy of my worship, he wouldn't be holy and set apart and so far above me. So it makes sense. You know that his ways are higher than our ways and his thoughts are higher than our thoughts. And so you know, I think I definitely enjoyed, you know, some of the scholastic challenges in seminary. But even some of those things that you know are hard to explain or understand about God, I just kind of accept and understand that. That's just kind of part of it. 13:50 - Speaker 2 Well, the reason why I ask is because I went to seminary too, in Westminster, philadelphia, and they're very like, quote unquote academically rigorous, which I can attest to. It's not easy but I think even because I went in when I was like 25 or 26 and I graduated when I'm 30, so it's my late 20s. But even then, like I didn't know too much, I wasn't a good student, so I just kind of accepted the things as they are. But I had questions because I would hear the other sides of arguments and I love the fact that my seminary was black and white. 14:26 But it wasn't only after years later out of seminary and I got exposed to other things that I realized. Oh, I didn't even know how to challenge these points of views and so I just took it as my own. But slowly, over the course of the next 10 years after seminary, god's been really refining my understanding and making it more simple, if anything, and adding more to a heart of the person of God rather than just these theological arguments. And so I guess I was just curious for you because you seem very intellectually strong, right that if you were able to kind of filter through inconsistencies in arguments or if it was like oh no, this makes a lot of sense and it just helped you propel you forward in love for Christ. 15:18 - Speaker 3 Because the ultimate application of my seminary education has been within the field of, you know, children's ministry, and so with children's ministry we want to take the most core theological concepts and explain them as simply as possible. And so I would say a lot of my time isn't necessarily, you know, I don't know debating this subset of theology or that, or you know I don't know debating this subset of theology or that, or you know in times or whatever, but it's been taking these key theological concepts and breaking them down and explaining them very simply to where an elementary age child can understand each of these pieces of the gospel or, you know, of scripture and so so really, my application and my focus was on wasn't even necessarily in that area, if that makes sense just on explaining simply what God's word means. 16:23 - Speaker 2 I love that you said that. I mean I did children's ministry too for five years and the last three was as a preschool director and I had to do a sermon three times a week and it's hard. People don't understand doing a five-minute sermon to preschool kids. Really hard because you got to use less words, right. So I want to hear your experience of what was your process of like? Or did you just automatically was like oh, this is easy, I can explain to any kid. Or like did it take you time to get down to the seed of the gospel? 16:56 - Speaker 3 a work in progress of learning how to communicate scriptural truths and gospel truths to children in simple ways. And so there's. I mean there are a lot of great resources out there. There are a lot of great things out there, but it's definitely been a process over years of learning how to explain things simply and break things down simply. 17:25 - Speaker 2 So, yeah, what are some resources that help you? 17:31 - Speaker 3 So many, so many resources out there. My favorite for sharing the gospel in particular is I really like Lifeways, the Gospel, god's Plan for me, because it takes children. It starts with God as creator and takes children through you know, through, ok, you know. God is our creator, he rules, he makes the rules. He, you know, gives us instructions on how to live and how to obey him. Live and how to obey him, you know, and we send, we disobey god, but he gives us this opportunity to be saved through jesus, and then we respond to it and so I I like that. 18:15 It's very simple, it's broken down very simply. Um, there's this like for kids what is a christian? Is it a thing for when kids are asking questions and they're kind of, you can tell they're in that phase where they're thinking about the gospel and they're thinking about what it means to follow Jesus, and so that's a great resource for kids and for families. And then, after they accept Christ, I'm a Christian now. So the what is a Christian, the I'm a Christian now, are both workbooks. It can be taught as a class at church. It and the Amor Christian Hour, both workbooks. It can be taught as a class at church. It can be done with kids and parents doing it together at home. So those are just some great resources for sharing the gospel and before and after kids accept Christ. 18:57 - Speaker 2 So, based on your experience, what's been the most fulfilling or best thing about children's mentorship for you? 19:02 - Speaker 3 Leading kids to Christ, definitely seeing them have those sort of light bulb moments of understanding, scripture, understanding coming to like a new understanding that they didn't have before. So those are definitely the favorite things leading kids to Christ and then watching them, watching them learn and watching them grow in their faith for sure. 19:26 - Speaker 2 What has been the hardest challenges. 19:29 - Speaker 3 Because there's a lot, a lot. I think Probably the most challenging aspect of children's ministry is working with adults. The kids are easy. Leading volunteers takes a lot of work and a lot of skill and a lot of times, a lot of skill development to become an effective leader. To become an effective leader being with families or with parents. Sometimes there can be just complicated situations and complicated dynamics there, and so I usually say that kids are easy. It's the grownups that are more challenging a lot of times in children's ministry. 20:18 - Speaker 2 Yes and amen. 20:20 - Speaker 3 Times a million. 20:25 - Speaker 2 So what is your thoughts on a ministry of philosophy kind of way of getting parents involved in the teaching, because it's great that a church might have an amazing children's program but at the end of the day, the day they have to go home and if it's not reinforced at the home it's kind of a wash, not to say it's not important. You know, like again you got saved out of vbs but still like, how do we create that environment where we're like parents, we need to, we want you, like I'm a supplement to actually what you're cutting my own through. 20:59 - Speaker 3 So how do you go about the part of that is in how we view our role as children's ministers, and so I don't see my role as being the primary like teaching or um, you know, the primary sort of spiritual force in a child's life, like I see myself in my primary role as coming alongside volunteers and equipping them to teach well, coming alongside parents and equipping them to teach well, and so there can be a lot of different ways to do that through classes for parents to just help them understand the Bible, to help them know how to teach their kids, to help them deal with current issues that their kids are facing, like with social media and just everything. And so I think having opportunities for parents to be equipped is super valuable. I think having opportunities for parents to be equipped is super valuable. I think having resources for families, you know, materials that parents can use in the home, or having recommendations or books they can borrow or check out. No-transcript. 22:42 - Speaker 2 And so we want to, just like you said, come alongside them and encourage them in that and just in whatever ways we can. What kind of classes do you do, like specifically for parents or volunteers, and like what do you feel like has been the most effective strategy? Because you know, when you say classes, people run classes very differently. 22:58 - Speaker 3 So what's been helpful to you? So I've done a few different ones. Um, I've done one that's just um, it's just a class that I'm I made about child development and spiritual formation. So walking through you know each sort of age and stage of child development and different things that they can do with their children, you know, in the home to teach them and to lay that foundation of biblical understanding I have also. So I've done that for parents and for volunteers. 23:28 I've also done for volunteers a great resource from Robert and Lori Crosby about trauma-informed children's ministry. They have a great book and then they also have a great training resource for volunteers which is like a four module training thing for volunteers trauma informed children's ministry. That is wonderful, Absolutely wonderful. It's a combinations of things that I've created, things that others have done and and at our particular church we offer discipleship classes on Wednesday nights. We have ministry for all ages on Wednesday nights, and so that's typically the time whenever I would do these classes. That are, you know, anywhere from six to ten weeks for parents on those Wednesday nights. 24:18 - Speaker 2 Are these all in person or some online? 24:22 - Speaker 3 The ones that we do are in person. We haven't, you know, at the churches that I've been at, really attempted online small group classes or small group discipleship classes, so in person, but the podcast as well, where we share a lot of information, um, but yeah, I'm definitely more used to teaching in person. 24:45 - Speaker 2 No, I'm with you. I think there's just such a value of being in person but with the world that it is um. I'm just curious as to, when people do it online, what has been effective? That's another question for another podcast. Okay, so for you now, how long have you been in children's ministry at your local church? 25:09 - Speaker 3 I've been at a few different churches about eight years or so local church ministry, but spread out across multiple churches. At my current church, I've been here about a year and a half. Okay, how's that going? Definitely in a time of a very exciting time of um, just growth. Um I towards the end of a um pastor search season, um, and then we called a new pastor who has a young family. Um is just wonderful pastor, and so we're in a very exciting time of growth um with that, with with our new new ish pastor. He's been there a little over a year, about almost a year and a half Um, so like sorry, let me think through that If I've been here a year and a half um, so like sorry, let me think through that if I've been here a year and a half. Anyway, it's been a very exciting time um with the, with our new pastor, um, and just a time of growth and a season of growth. So so, yeah, it's been good. 26:13 And uh, what's the podcast about is with myself and then another friend of mine from seminary, from my doctoral program. She and I were our two children's ministry people in our cohort in our doctoral program and so we just became fast friends and about two years ago we decided to start a podcast just because we love children's ministry, we love equipping volunteers and leaders to serve well in their churches and in their children's ministries and through all the education we went through and, honestly, just sort of being mentored by people and discipled and invested in, I feel like I am just a steward of that, and so I want to steward all of that investment well by sharing it with other people who can benefit from it. Because that was one thing just sort of being in the doctoral program I thought you know there are so many people all over the world who are way smarter than me and you know they're just never going to have access, like what I have to get this kind of education that I've gotten, and so I want to steward this Like this is a gift and I want to steward it well. And so part of our podcast is just stewarding well, the gift of education and learning, everything, all that we've learned in children's ministry, and just trying to share it with others. 27:59 How long have you been doing it? So we started about two years ago, but we started releasing episodes a little less than two years ago. So two years, we're going to say. 28:12 - Speaker 2 Is this your first podcast or do you have experience from previous? 28:15 - Speaker 3 I had a short-lived stint on a previous podcast, on a previous women's ministry podcast, for about six months, and so that kind of. So that was with a different co-host. But for the children's ministry podcast that kind of gave us a little oomph to jump in and give it a try. 28:35 - Speaker 2 So how do you guys record your podcasts StreamYard? 28:42 - Speaker 3 StreamYard OkayYard handles all the like you know technological stuff. With that I just kind of show up and talk, so did it take a while for you to kind of catch a groove, or it was kind of seamless for you, I think in some ways it took a little while to get into a group, but we were already such good friends that it was really just sort of sitting and talking about very practical things within children's ministry that we honestly probably have already talked about anyway, and just recording it and putting it out there. 29:19 - Speaker 2 You know what's funny Most of the podcasts I listen to that's like the origin story. It's like it's just us talking and we just started recording and it kind of blew up because everyone's eavesdropping on our conversations. So that's great. So what is your hope for the podcast? Moving forward just like a resource and content of education, or do you want it to be? 29:43 - Speaker 3 open to it becoming more. Right now it's essentially a I call it a ministry slash hobby because it's, you know, we just kind of do it on the side because it is something that we are passionate about. Something that we are passionate about, I think we would be interested in that. But we I don't know again we're just two children's ministers talking and recording it, so we're not sophisticated social media, marketing people or anything like that. But really, I think, as we were going through our doctoral program, there was kind of. 30:20 I think we both sort of opened us up to see that there's this whole swath of people the majority even who serve their churches faithfully week in and week out and they're never going to go to seminary, they're never going to set foot on a Christian college. 30:55 They serve on the weekends in their children's ministry because they love it and they have a whole different job during the week. And so there are so many people who have a passion for children's ministry, are never going to do it vocationally, but they need resources and help and encouragement. I think God just sort of opened up the door for us to see that there's this whole swath of people who we can reach and help and encourage, without you know, having any sort of formal professional title or you know, working at a. I think God's just sort of opened our eyes and opened the doors for us to to hopefully try to equip people who may never go to seminary, may never even get to go to a children's conference. Um, are just going to serve in their small church faithfully for years, and and how do we equip them so? 31:55 - Speaker 2 so wait, what are you doing now? You're just doing that and the podcast, anything else going on in your life. 32:00 - Speaker 3 I'm working vocationally in my local church. We do the podcast on the side as a ministry. I have a mom and a wife and have preschool-aged children and so yeah, so that's kind of that's my life. 32:18 - Speaker 2 So that actually brings me to a question With now all your formal training and experience now it's like in your own home Do you have a different approach, or are you being open to a new awareness that you didn't have before? How has being a mother changed your perspective? 32:36 - Speaker 3 It's been interesting because I went into it thinking that because I have a lot of formal training in like child development and things like that, I thought, oh man, this is going to be so helpful and not that it hasn't been. But it's one thing to know and understand that a behavior is developmentally appropriate, it's normal. It's normal's normal, you know, to have to be a toddler and like lose your mind in the grocery store, but also it's sort of like, but what do I do now? So so that's been the question of like okay, I understand, you know maybe what's happening or why this is happening, or that this is normal and appropriate, but also it's like, but how do I respond? How do I handle this? So there's definitely been plenty of challenges I'm sure there will be plenty more, you know in just figuring out how to parent little humans. 33:35 - Speaker 2 Yeah, that's funny, yeah, yeah, like the world up here is always different than the world that hits our heart and we're like, oh wait yes, it feels different. 33:48 - Speaker 3 Yes, the theories. When, when rubber hits the road and the theories become not so theoretical, it's like, oh boy, yeah yes, mike tyson, one sense, everyone has a plan until they get punched in the face. 34:01 - Speaker 2 And you're just like what do I do now? So yeah, I asked this to everybody. How did you? 34:06 - Speaker 3 meet your husband Immediately after graduating. Finishing school completely and graduating with my doctorate, I went and worked in higher ed administration at a small Christian college. My husband also worked there. Our paths didn't really cross at the college but he was the bivocational youth pastor at the church where I attended and where I joined, and so we got to know each other through that. At church. We were dating and got married. So we met at church really. 34:39 - Speaker 2 So what about him? Made you see us? 34:43 - Speaker 3 Gosh, that's a big question. 34:46 We served together. I started sort of helping in the student ministry fairly early on in my time in the church, in my time in the church, and so we had served together in the ministry probably for, I mean a year, a year and a half for for a good while, um, before we started dating Um, and so I was able to watch him just as a person, um, and just see how how he worked with the students um, and just see how he worked with the students, see a little bit of how he worked with college students at the university, and so I got to see his character and his heart before we even started dating. And really once, I mean fairly early on, once we started dating, I was like know, okay, like, like like this is it, this is the guy. We have similar, um, just sort of goals and and on a similar sort of life trajectory, um, and so it was just I don't know. The Lord just sort of made it clear that like, okay, boop, you know I put you two together, you know, for this purpose. 35:57 - Speaker 2 So what's one thing you understand after being married that you wish you knew before getting married? 36:07 - Speaker 3 There's nothing that immediately comes to mind, and part of that is probably because I um was I don't want to call myself older, but I was an older bride whenever we got married. I was 31 whenever we got married, and so I felt like I at the time whenever we got married, you know, I had already lived a lot of my adult, or I'd lived, you know, a significant amount of adult life, and going into marriage, I knew that communication would be super important, and communicating and being on the same page and clear about finances would be super important, and so there were a lot of things that I think, just because I was already, I'd already lived a lot of adult life that I was kind of aware of prior to getting married, and so there was any like huge surprises, though, if that makes sense and then also because I had known him, you know, for so long prior to even dating and then, of course, dating and getting married, so I felt like I knew him very well prior to being married as well. 37:21 - Speaker 2 So I don't know, no, that was a perfect answer because you basically gave all the things people in their 20s should understand, like communication, and take your time assessing if he is a good and genuine and honest person, and you did that already. Yeah, so you prepared yourself well without even realizing how well you got prepared. So is he a pastor now? 37:49 - Speaker 3 He is actually a Christian school teacher, so he teaches high school Bible and loves that, so he again has a background in doing some student ministry. But then once he became a teacher he was like, oh no, like I love this. Because he says you know, he gets, you know, five hours a week with his students, you know with each class of his students, whereas in student ministry you don't even get that much. You know. You get maybe two hours a week at that, for two or three even, and so he's like man, he's like I just had such an opportunity to really pour into my students and disciple them and invest in them so effectively. So, yeah, so he really enjoys that. 38:37 - Speaker 2 That's a really good point. We need more teachers teachers, not more pastors, because they spend more time with kids. Uh, yep that's true are you planning to homeschool your kids or send them to public school, and what are your thoughts on that? 38:53 - Speaker 3 well, we'll send them. So, since my husband is a teacher at. He's a teacher at a private christian school, um, so our plans are just to send them to his school. So, yeah, so they will go to the Christian school where my husband teaches, and that is something that is important to us. For us, there's a lot of value in having them in that educational environment all day long. Where they are going to be, you know, scriptural truth is going to be poured into them. You know they're going to be learning the gospel from a very early age. It's going to be supporting, you know what we want them to learn and the foundation that we want them to have, you know, in Christ, and so, yeah, so that's our plan is for them to go to Christian school where my husband teaches. 39:43 - Speaker 2 Um, and, and that's a very intentional plan on our part- but if that school wasn't available and only public schools were available, would you send them still send them to school or would you reconsider homeschool um? 39:58 - Speaker 3 because, again, you know, 100 years ago, when I was in school, I was like, man, public schools are fine, what's people's deal? Um, but man, the world has changed a lot, um, and so you, you know, I'm not sure what we would do. I don't know, because people tend to look at me and be like, oh, you have, like all this education, you must want to homeschool, you must want to, you know, teach your children. And I'm like, I do have all this education, but I don't know that I, you know, obviously, if the Lord called me, he would empower it. But I don't know that I, you know, obviously, if the Lord called me, he would empower it, but I don't know that I have the natural personality, the natural bent to be, you know, effective and passionate about homeschooling. 40:45 - Speaker 2 Yeah, I think people forget. This is why we have scholars and then we have like professionals, because there's a difference between learning and understanding and then do it, and sometimes it's really hard and you want to leave it to professionals to do the thing. 41:00 - Speaker 3 I'll be here teaching you how to do it between teaching the bible and teaching multiplication or algebra, or you know, i't know any of that kind of stuff. 41:14 - Speaker 2 I have some final questions. These are more personal. What? 41:20 - Speaker 3 is your fondest childhood memory? Probably? I was very imaginative as a child and probably one of my fondest memories and I guess it's sort of a collection of memories is I had a beloved American Girl doll. I had the Molly American Girl doll, and so millennial women will know who Molly is, and so I just loved playing imaginative games, you know, with my doll and her going on adventures and doing all kinds of things, and so you know probably just um, just that imaginative, unstructured play of childhood is is one of my fondest memories and one of the greatest gifts that I think that we can give children. Today is just time to play. 42:14 - Speaker 2 I completely agree. Something that's been being reinforced in my life is this understanding God created us to be like him, in his image, but also as a creator, and for us. We can't create out of nothing, but we can use our imagination to create things, and you think about everything that's been man-made. Someone thought of it, either because they want to solve a problem or they thought it would be cool, right, yeah? 42:39 yeah I don't know where we get to this like age where we tell kids to stop imagining and start like living in reality. Right, it's like. No, that's where all the joy is. It's in their creativity. Absolutely. What is the best parenting advice you've ever gotten? 42:59 - Speaker 3 um, this goes for parenting, this goes for a lot of things in life to start with the end in mind, and so it's so easy to be very reactionary in parenting, in ministry leadership, but if we start with the end in mind, whatever our goal is, is and let that form the way we approach things right now. Um fact wording was it was, I think I read it in a children in a book about parenting, about starting, as you mean to continue. So if this is the long-term goal, then start that. That now start in accordance with that. Now, um, you undo what you've previously done, or you're not just being reactionary in the moment. You know you have sort of a plan and a strategy and so not that that's a lot easier said than done in parenting or in ministry, um, because there's always going to be some weird curveball that you're like what do I do with this? How? 44:17 do I how do I handle this, um? But but yeah, just start with the end in mind. 44:25 - Speaker 2 So I love that you said that, because that's been like my singularity now and like I feel like the Lord the last past year has been telling me prepare to see me face to face. So it's like okay, and that kind of changed everything. And then you reverse engineer everything and then all the things you thought were urgent now like, but this end is going to happen, so, and because as Christians we have a guarantee, right, I don't know anything else. All I know is I'm going to see Jesus, right. 44:58 Whether on this side or the other side and that kind of realigns the important things. 45:03 - Speaker 1 So I love that you said that. Thank you. 45:06 - Speaker 2 What are you hoping for at Faithly? 45:08 - Speaker 3 Say opportunities to connect with other people, who, people who I may never, ever meet, you know, in person in this life, people who I probably wouldn't meet otherwise. And so I would just say opportunities to connect with people who I wouldn't cross paths with otherwise paths with. 45:32 - Speaker 2 otherwise, are there any specific like category of people or in a specific field you would love to connect? 45:37 - Speaker 3 with Connecting with other children's ministry leaders and people who it's very interesting to me, just sort of like the thought leaders of the day of you know where society's heading, where technology's heading, you know trends in leadership, and just all that kind of stuff is very interesting to me as well. I'm not, you know, I'm not out there projecting anything or in the middle of it. I just like to listen to what other people have to say in all those, those areas cool. 46:14 - Speaker 2 Um, how could we be praying for you and your family? 46:17 - Speaker 3 like with praying for our family. Um, just, you know this is such a simple thing, but also it's not just good health, and good health for our children, because we're definitely in that preschool phase where they all like sneeze on each other and just it's just a constant germ fest, um and so, uh, just good health. Um, and then just, you know, in ministry, just keeping up with with the growth and trying to get ahead of the growth in the ministry and be prepared for growth, that's, I guess those would be the things. And you know just discernment from the Lord, because there's always a million good things or good opportunities or possible. You know good ways of doing something, and it's just. And I feel like the you know becoming ways of doing something, and it's just. And I feel like the you know becoming a parent and leading a ministry, all that just seems to multiply of like, oh man, there are like a million options. Like, okay, lauren, just show me, show me which one, show me what to do. 47:27 - Speaker 2 No, I totally get it, which is why, like you said, you need to have your North Star, because you always want to test. Is this getting to the North Star or is it deviating? Yeah, thank you, this was great. Yeah, thank you, it was fun talking to you. That's it for the podcast, guys. 47:46 - Speaker 1 Thank you for tuning in to the Faithly Stories podcast. We pray this episode gave you the encouragement you needed to continue on your journey. The Faithly Stories Podcast is brought to you by Faithly, an online community committed to empowering church leaders, pastors, staff and volunteers. The Faithly digital platform offers innovative and practical tools and resources to enhance connection, foster collaboration and promote growth within the church and ministry space. Remember to subscribe, rate and review our podcast to help reach more listeners like you. Stay tuned for more uplifting tales from the front lines of ministry on the Faithly Podcast. Stay bold, stay faithful and never underestimate the power of your own story.