Home Is Where the Heart Is - Ashley Bailey

00:00 - Speaker 1
It's like when people ask where I'm from and I'm like, well, I was born in Canada, spent most of my life in New England and then have moved all across the country. So I'm like I don't really know where I'm from, like I can go to any of those places and it feels like home to me.

00:14
You know, the cheesy saying of like home is where the heart is, but like it's really true Home is where your people are, it's where you carry in your heart. Like that's where home is. My name is Ashley. I am a mom, pastor's wife and I'm a staffer at the MomPo by Motson Rasmus. I live outside of Seattle, washington and this is my Faithly.

00:36 - Speaker 2
Stories. Welcome to Faithly Stories, the podcast that brings you inspiring tales from conversations with church leaders as they navigate the peaks and valleys of their faith journeys through their ministry work and everyday life. Join us as we delve into their challenges, moments of encouragement and answered prayers. The Faithly Stories podcast is brought to you by Faithly, an online community committed to empowering church leaders, pastors, staff and volunteers. Learn more at faithlyco. Get ready to be uplifted and inspired as we unveil the heart of faith through stories from the front lines of ministry. On the Faithly Stories podcast.

01:19 - Speaker 3
Can you just start by sharing your faith story? How did you come to faith?

01:28 - Speaker 1
just start by sharing your faith story. How did you come to faith? Yeah, I grew up in New England and went to church somewhat regularly, but it wasn't a really big influence in my life as a kid. It's kind of something that we did every now and then. And then, when I was in middle school and then when I was in middle school, age 14, my parents got divorced and that really shook my world as a teenager.

02:03
Even though at that age I could kind youth group and started going to church with them without my parents, that was really the last thing on their mind when they were going through their divorce. But I really needed community and so I went to youth group with some friends and ended up going on a retreat and accepted Christ at that retreat and really contribute youth ministry to and my youth pastor and my friends to really helping me find Jesus and it really just came at such a pivotal point in my life. And then went on to go to the university. That's connected to the denomination where I was attending youth group and now my husband serves in that denomination as a pastor. So it's really come full circle. He was a youth minister before becoming a lead pastor and so I really am such a big advocate of youth ministry.

03:03 - Speaker 3
Yeah, that's beautiful, because that kind of reminds me of my own story about youth group and how transformational it was. So what was it at the retreat that made you finally convinced just to give your life over?

03:15 - Speaker 1
Yeah, I feel like it's. I feel like it's cheesy, but as a 14-year-old I just remember the phrase of like, feeling like there was just this gaping hole in my heart where, like the world was ripped out from under me, with my parents divorce and really finding a lot of fault with my earthly father at that time. We now have a great relationship, but the divorce was primarily on him, and so I was really struggling with that relationship and so, even though I'd heard about God and and Jesus, you know, most of my childhood, I never really understood what that meant. And so I just remember at that retreat we talked a lot about like dying to self. I remember that was a big message and also just like the reliance on God as our father, and that really hit me at that time in my life when my early father had just kind of failed our family and, yeah, just needing some relationship and support during that time, and that's really when the Holy Spirit convicted me.

04:28 - Speaker 3
Are you an only child?

04:30 - Speaker 1
No, I'm the oldest of two. My brother's four years younger than me. How was it on him? It was harder on him because he was 10 at the time, and so I think we both processed it in our own way. And even now being married and having three kids, like after my third child, I really had to like re wrestle with some of what that means and how that divorce affected me, and like growing up in high school as a single mom and what that looks like and how that shaped my perception of motherhood. So I've done some work on that recently, but, yeah, I would say it's harder on my brother and I don't know if he has had the space to process that really well. I know he's accepted Christ, but he's got a harder faith, walk and relationship with Jesus than I do right now, and so, yeah, it's interesting to, and then he's a parent as well, so it's interesting to see, like how you, when you become a parent and when you get married, how divorce will just come back up from childhood.

05:38 - Speaker 3
How old is he now?

05:40 - Speaker 1
He's 33. Yeah, and I'm 37.

05:48 - Speaker 3
Um I'm 40, going to be 41. And I recently like in around Christmas um reconnected with my dad. So my parents divorced, but it was like way later, it was like when I was in like seminary or college so long ago so I was actually really thankful that they stayed together, even though, like literally, they fought every day.

06:12
The fact that even the fact that they're fighting together I realized looking back, I don't know it just created this stable unit, even though it's unstable internally, um, but it wasn't until I, like reconciled with my father, forgave him for the past and really God had to work a lot in my heart to want to have a future with him, do you know what I mean? Yeah for the longest time I thought oh, I forgave him, I don't have any animosity. But there was like no room for him in my heart. God created that room through some suffering and now, like like a huge weight came off my shoulder. I didn't realize that I was carrying.

06:51 - Speaker 1
And.

06:51 - Speaker 3
I think internally there was always this sense of like. I wanted a like, a fatherly figure, approval, right, so that's why I always attached to like older men and whatnot. But I realized it was because, like, I had that that kind of authority lost with my. Yeah, yeah Only when I reconnected I was like oh, that missing piece in my heart was just with my dad.

07:16 - Speaker 1
And God kind of worked it.

07:18 - Speaker 3
So all that to say, like I want to encourage you and your brother, like like it'll take time and God will work it like telling like it'll take time and God will work it.

07:27 - Speaker 1
Yeah, and I think when that happens when you're in those formative years, um, it's tricky because you are relying on this person and as kids, we often think like I think maybe more so when I was growing up versus my own children, because when I make mistakes now with my kids I apologize to them immediately it's all my messed up and I think with our parents generation that wasn't so much the case.

07:48
It's like my way or the highway, and I always I saw my parents as like not perfect, because I knew they were fighting. But also I think I held my dad up on a pedestal like he was a airline pilot, his whole career, super smart guy, like, so generous to others and still is, and but like that really shook me to find that like he had sin and wrong and I was angry towards him and so that was hard that I had to like it took years and I did forgive him and reconcile and now we have a good relationship. It's hard when someone like that in your life really like that pedestal is like taken out from under them, even though you're the one that built it.

08:40 - Speaker 3
So you were mentioning how like it shaped the way see moms, especially single moms with your mom, could you kind of?

08:46 - Speaker 1
elaborate on that is a New Yorker, so she's pretty sick skinned, um, and so she never, like we never really and still don't have like a super open, we'll talk about anything relationship, um, which has really shaped how I mother my kids and I think, like our generation we do, we're learning to do a better job of like talking about our emotions and mental health is on like on the rise and it's normal to talk about these things where it wasn't.

09:26
When I was growing up, um, so that's really shaped my motherhood and then just how I see moms and single moms especially like that is probably now that I'm a mom I can realize that she was doing the best that she could with what she had being a single mom and how difficult that must have been for her. Because, even though, like I was pretty independent, my brother like we're really self sufficient kids and and kind of had to be growing up with a single mom that was working full time, like when, for instance, if my husband's out of town and I'm home alone with three kids and I'm like on my own for a week or so, like that is hard, and so I can't imagine her doing that all the time. And even before their divorce he was a pilot, my dad, so like he was still gone, a lot. Um. So I wonder, like if she never? So I wonder if she never.

10:40 - Speaker 3
She was just in survival mode and that's why there wasn't a lot of not nurturing, but just not a lot of warm connection, because she was just doing the best that she could and she had so much to carry on her plate. Yeah, I totally agree.

10:46
I mean, for the longest time I blame my mom, because there were moments like she disciplined me physically and she would like, but looking back with the whole context of being married to my dad and just you know, yeah, I totally get it because, like, when I get angry, I lose my stuff too and'm like man, like when I think about it, like she was a single mom. It's just, she was not like like. You know what I mean Legally single, but like emotionally she was not in a safe place.

11:14
So like she really did the best that she could. And now it's like night and day where she's a little too loving and a little too annoying. So it's like oh okay, I see when you get healed like there's just so much joy and love that's brought out, yeah, so thanks for sharing. So how did you get connected with MomCo then?

11:38 - Speaker 1
Yeah, so I started volunteering, or I started attending a Mops group six years ago when my no, sorry, longer than that seven or eight years ago, when my middle was a baby. She just turned eight and we moved across the country. I mentioned my husband's a pastor and our joke is that God doesn't call us less than 2 miles apart because we've. He went to seminary in Chicago. Our first call was in Texas and that's where I was a full time art teacher, had two babies in Texas and knew that I was missing something when it came to motherhood and friendship, but was working full time and just didn't have the bandwidth between that and being a new mom. Um, and then from there we moved to connecticut for his next call at a church and that that church had a mops group and at that time I started staying home. Um, stopped teaching and just stayed home with the girls and super thankful we had the ability for me to do that.

12:45
But then found myself in a totally different role in not a new state because I grew up in Connecticut but different part of the state, so I really didn't have any friends there and so got involved in the mob group. Already knew Jesus from being a teenager and obviously like involved in ministry with my husband, a pastor, but really found like friendship that like sustained me through those first early years of motherhood when babies aren't sleeping or, you know, potty training, like all the struggles of young parenting. So joined their group for a year and then started serving on their leadership team for the next four years. Then we moved across country again because God called us again to a different church and so now we're outside of Seattle where our church here had a mops group. It stopped meeting during the pandemic.

13:46
We moved here two years ago and so I helped relaunch it at our church and then had the opportunity to join staff this past March. So it's been 10 years or 10 months that I've been on staff and it's just been really cool to see how God moved from like getting involved in this organization lighting a fire and like how important it is to support moms serving on leadership and then stepping onto staff, which really like embodies our mission statement as an organization. So it's pretty cool. What is your mission statement?

14:24 - Speaker 3
So our mission statement is an organization, so it's pretty cool. What is your mission?

14:26 - Speaker 1
statement. So our mission statement is that we would encourage and equip moms of young children to realize their potential as mothers, women and leaders in the local church and in relationship with Jesus. It's just been cool to see like I feel, like I God's given me the ability to like really live that out, like finding um friendship and motherhood and also like support in my motherhood, like I often say, like I can't be a mom without Jesus and mops.

14:58
Um and then feeling really supported as a leader. Um, and then also just being able to like see how a local MOPS group will positively affect a local church, especially when your husband's on staff and you really see the impact of it. It's been really cool.

15:17 - Speaker 3
So what do you do for MOPS? Exactly.

15:19 - Speaker 1
I work on the church engagement team and I oversee the Pacific region, so I've got the West coast, nevada, alaska and Hawaii and so I connect with churches in those states, both pastors and lay leaders that are interested in starting moms groups, mom co-groups, and also like finding areas where there's a high need, which really is everywhere, and then areas that have a high need but don't have a lot of MOPS groups and reaching out to churches to see if they're interested in partnering with us.

15:56 - Speaker 3
So what happens in these groups?

16:00 - Speaker 1
Yeah, so a MOPS group typically meets twice a month. It could be less, could be more, it's really up to the local church. They meet for a couple hours. There's child care provided because we recognize moms. While we love our children, we need a break from them and we need time to connect with each other, and so kids have child care and Bible lessons. And then we have some sort of food, whether it's breakfast or a daytime meeting or dinner or dessert for an evening meeting and gathering around the table for conversation.

16:35
And then there's a speaker or a video of like any broad topic of motherhood that's really accessible to all moms, because we don't want to assume that every mom that comes to MOPS is a believer and so we talk about things that really moms want to talk about or are already talking about but don't really have the time or space to have like meaningful conversations about it, whether that's things like mental health or parenting or marriage or worry of all the big things in motherhood, even if it's like how to meal plan or how to like logistical stuff and also like really emotional stuff. Um, and then, yeah, just time to dialogue and build relationships with each other and like really find that tribe that everyone says that you need when you're a parent, but you don't know where to find it.

17:33 - Speaker 3
I love all the things you're saying because anyone who knows me knows like I have a huge heart for moms.

17:39
Probably because like I think it was just a way for me to give back, because when I was younger, I always wanted to help my mom but I couldn't Right. So now that I'm older, I have this capacity to help and so I was always the single guy hanging out with moms, because I did preschool at church. I was a pastor and so, like you know if any of you guys are watching this you know who you are. Like. How do you convince moms who are maybe hesitant to join a group that you don't know? Because a lot of this is like it feels awkward joining a group that you don't know anything about, but like you know that it would be so beneficial for them.

18:19 - Speaker 1
So what would you?

18:19
say to them I would say that if you're feeling lonely in motherhood, that you're not meant to do it alone and really taking a brave step into community and friendship is really the best thing that you can do for yourself and for your family, because our families need us to be healthy as moms.

18:45
And if we're lonely and isolated and don't feel like we have any friends or support or are just finding that on social media and not in person, um that just take the brave step and say yes to trying something new. Um, I've had so many moms walk in the door of our moms groups that don't know anybody and after a meeting or two, just feel like so welcome and loved and that's what we want to do. We want to show Jesus to all these moms. Um, but they, they walk away feeling like, okay, I can do this and I have friends that real, that can relate to what I'm going through, no matter what age or stage their kids are at, and that if something comes up between meetings, there's always someone to call, and we want to be that tribe and that village for each other that we know we need but we can't really find. So, yeah, I would just say be brave and take a bold step, and mothering is hard enough and not to do it on your own.

19:48 - Speaker 3
Can anyone start a moms group or mom co-group?

19:51 - Speaker 1
Yeah, yeah, anyone can start. It doesn't matter how old you are. You could be, you know, a younger mom. We have moms that and the whole mom co-thing is shifting away from our organization's 50 years old it's for mother preschoolers, which 50 years ago preschool wasn't an institution, it just meant like before school. And then we realized that all moms need support, no matter how old their kids are. I've got kids in elementary school and I know it's just going to get harder from here in terms of issues we have to tackle with them, and so it's not like you know for sure. Early motherhood is life changing and that's when we really find that moms are more open to community and talking about faith even. But the whole mom co shift is the co is short for community, and so it's really the mom community, no matter how old your kids are. We would get questions from moms that wanted to join and they would just assume that if they didn't have a preschooler they couldn't come. But that's never been our organization's mission. It's just a 50 year old name that was kind of outgrown, so we're really excited about it. But, yeah, any mom can start a group.

21:06
I had a conversation yesterday with a mom who went to mops when her kids were little and now she's working full time and her kids are teenagers and she wants to start a group for working moms. We have mentor moms, which are like either grandma age or moms that have kids in college and empty nesters, and they have a place, because we need to know that we'll survive this whole like parenting journey, um, and which never really ends. But to have someone of an older generation pour in tests is really important too, and so I've had even mentor moms start groups, um. So yeah, and oftentimes our groups meet in churches, but they don't have to. They can meet in homes or like public places, like libraries or the YMCA. We call those community groups. So we really just want to have a group available for every mom that wants to join one.

22:00 - Speaker 3
Do you guys offer like resources on training or it's like yeah.

22:04 - Speaker 1
Yeah, yeah. We offer lots of resources because we realize our moms are busy and they're juggling a lot, and so we want to really equip them well, and so we have curriculum for the meetings. There's a theme that comes out every year and about a dozen videos that come out along with that theme that you can show at your meeting, and then there's also probably about a dozen leader videos too that just the leaders can watch and grow in their leadership development. The videos that you can show at meetings have discussion questions and meeting plans that come along with them. So really it's like it can be plug and play if you want it to be. That's what we do with our evening group, um. And then we also have a lot of groups that will use in-person speakers and they'll come. They'll bring like a therapist in or like a local doctor or something like that to come talk. And we even have a mob speaker network where you can leaders can go in and search by zip code and find speakers in their area or speakers that will do it on Zoom to come talk at their MOPs group. So that's another resource. And then we really want we put a lot of emphasis on supporting our leaders and really encouraging women and moms to realize their potential in leadership. So we have executive leadership coaches on staff that connect with all of our group coordinators, which are like the leaders of each group, and they meet in a cohort style. So once a month they hop on a Zoom call, have a leadership training and then have time for like reflection and question and answer, and that's really nice, like leader.

23:47
Being a leader can be lonely at times and you feel like you're doing it all by yourself, and so it's nice to be able to connect with leaders across the country um, that are doing the same thing as you are and you know, going through the same curriculum and having the same issues or celebrating the same kind of wins that it's really cool to have that support.

24:08 - Speaker 3
Um, yeah, we offer all those resources well, yeah, that's why we created a faith lead, because we realize a lot of people are figuring out on their own like even I'm like why is this harder than it has to be? Who has the experience Like who made this mistake already that I can learn from?

24:26 - Speaker 1
Exactly, yeah, and like my husband's a pastor and so, like ministry leaders, have that same struggle where churches can feel so isolated and they or pastors can because they're so focused on their congregation, which is important but also like and thankfully we have a supportive denomination where he can reach out to other pastors and stuff but it's good to have um connection with, like local pastors in our town too that are in different denominations and but it's hard because pastors are busy and they don't have a lot of time to carry that relationship and building so Faithly is great because you can just hop on there and connect. I think what you guys are doing is awesome.

25:12 - Speaker 3
Yeah, you can kind of think of us as like the mom co for ministry people. So we're trying to do, except we're not meeting in person. How has motherhood, like, changed you and challenged you? And yeah, refined you good question.

25:28 - Speaker 1
Uh, my oldest just turned 10. It's hard to believe I've been a mom for 10 years, but, um, gosh, I think they my kids have taught me just as much as I hope I've taught them. Um, I feel like before I had kids, I used to think I didn't have enough time. And then you have kids and you realize like, oh, I don't have any time, and you just but God, like really create the time and bandwidth. But I also think motherhood is really focused on like help me find what's most important.

26:04
I think growing up, I didn't have a lot of presence, like my dad was a pilot, so he was done a lot. My mom as we talked about single mom trying to do all the things, and so I think I've learned a lot about what it means to be present with my kids, and I know I can do a better job of this. But, yeah, it's taught me like to slow down and enjoy the states that they're in, and I know that every stage is difficult, whether they're not a baby that's not sleeping, or my 10 year old that's got a preteen attitude already. There's sweet spots in every season and stage two, and I think my husband does a really good job of this too, but just learning like what it looks like to have fun again and to see the world through a kid's lens um is a lot of fun too I totally

26:59 - Speaker 3
agree I think one thing god is repeatedly reminding me throughout this last year is what it means not just to have a childlike heart, but a childlike curiosity, and like I didn't really understand what that meant until, like, I met my nephew. It's funny because my nephew, he's gonna be seven soon, okay, and his first year, like to be very, very frank, I didn't care about him because he was just some lump, cute baby that I didn't have an attachment to right right, and then it was baby that I didn't have an attachment to right right, and then it was after, like I took some time off and I just had a lot of time um, like I visited him and I like hung out with him and babysat him and then, like I started growing to love him.

27:40
But it's mainly because I saw a little bit of my personality in him, because I'm like an extreme extrovert and my brother's an introvert.

27:47 - Speaker 1
I'm like oh, wow, and more and more as he like grows.

27:48 - Speaker 3
I'm like, oh, that's so fascinating because I'm like an extreme extrovert and my brother's an introvert and I'm like, oh, wow, and more and more as he like grows. I'm like, oh, that's so fascinating because I'm learning so much about myself with him and his interaction.

27:57
And now that he's like six and seven, he's always like what's that, what's that, what's that? And I'm always like explaining. I'm like, oh, that's kind of like how we are to God. Like, oh, that's kind of like how we are to God. Like what's that, what's that? Because it's not like a why are you doing this? Or like a judgment against my intent, but it's more of like oh, I have no idea what that is or why you're doing that, can you?

28:17
just explain to me Like, oh, when I approach, like scripture and the world that way, like I don't know, he just kind of gives me this understanding and I've been doing so much that way.

28:27 - Speaker 1
Yeah, it's cool having three kids. I mean, it's a lot of work having three kids, but it's also really cool because, um, they have such different personalities and when they especially my girls when they were younger, I thought, well, they're pretty similar. And as they got older, I was like, okay, they are so different and I can see so much of me and my middle daughter and so much of my husband and my oldest, and how we connect with those two is different. But I also need to realize I need to pour into my oldest too, and there's definitely things that she does that are a lot like me, but it takes more intentionality with her because she's so much more like my husband, um, but and then there's my son, who's like this high speed mix of both of us, and he's a lot of fun, but also, yeah, it really shows like the beauty of God. And how are, though? Their three very distinct personalities reflect different aspects of God and different aspects of their parents. Yeah, it's just that like collective, beautiful humanity in one house A running joke.

29:37 - Speaker 3
I have one of my friends. She's the mom right Cause she looks exactly the same. I don't know what it is with her genetics when we were growing up but all her kids are like teenagers and ever we we tell each other like, do you ever like wonder, like, who are these kids? Where did they come from? Because like it's so weird to us that like she has grown kids, because my mentality of hers, like we're still in like youth group yeah, yeah, I know um do you ever worry or have concern about them growing up as pastor's kids?

30:12 - Speaker 1
Oh, that's a good question. Yes and no, I've talked to my, because I didn't grow up a pastor's kid, nor did my husband, and so I've had friends that are the same age as mine that did, and I've had conversations with them of like what does it look like to grow up and be like a healthy pastor's kid? And also, like so many pastor's kids walk away from the church. And how do we um not in like, how do we support their faith? Because we know it's their faith, it's not our own um, and so we put a lot of emphasis on like. You know, church comes first, but it's not out of obligation, it's out of like just explain to our kids, for instance, like why we've moved across the country so many times and what it looks like to have God call you to a new place and a new house, and like my oldest has been in three different elementary schools and what is like why do we keep doing that?

31:11
And just, I think, continually talking about like the faithfulness of God and how he keeps showing up for us is really important, but also, I think, just making sure that they know that church is like fun and we like love. What we're doing, um, because I've talked to a lot of friends who grew up as pastor's kids and it just felt like such an obligation that I never want my kids to feel like their, that church or faith is an obligation and I want them to know, like, obviously, first and foremost, that Jesus loves them, um, but that he and church can be a lot of fun, um, and it's where we put our priority as our family. So, yeah, I think what I worry about the most is like them not owning their faith, and so already we talk about that a lot and like what god is doing in their life and um, and not so much like forcing it on them. But I don't know if any of that makes sense, but yeah, um no, it makes complete sense.

32:23 - Speaker 3
Yeah, um, even for me, like the reason why I stuck around the church a lot was because it was like like the one place that was like a stabilizing force. I mean, looking back now I just like appreciate like a pastor staying for like what was it six, seven years of my youth? Because, like turnover is always high with youth.

32:45
Yeah, and so just, having him as like a spiritual mentor, and like I moved a lot too, um, not states, but within my city, um, so I was changing schools too, and the tough part was when your friends constantly change, right, and when you're at that age, like I, grew up without like cell phones or like the internet, so, like you lose touch very quickly. Yeah, yeah, the only friends that stayed the same was at church and so that that really helped a lot, you know.

33:10
So, I'm curious as to like for you and your kids. Are they feeling the effects of huh I lost touch. Or because we live more in the technological age, they're able to keep close so?

33:21 - Speaker 1
how is your friendship?

33:21 - Speaker 3
with your kids.

33:23 - Speaker 1
They have a few friends that they keep touch with from Connecticut when we moved a couple of years ago. They write letters more than they do Like. I did sign my oldest up for like Facebook Messenger kids or whatever, and she'll use that every now and then, but that's more. It's more like her old school mates from last year versus across the country friends and I guess we just have to like. We're teaching our kids to be intentional with both like writing letters and also like touching base. Because they don't have their own phones, they have to use ours if they want to like use messenger kids, um.

34:02
But I think the really cool thing about moving across the country for ministry is that you have that built-in community when you get there like. I can't imagine moving across the country for any secular job and having to find that community like. It can be done. Obviously people do it, but it's such a blessing to just have that family of believers that like want to welcome you in and want to get to know you and thankfully, like especially at our church right now we I don't feel a lot of pressure as a pastor's wife to do X, y and Z.

34:34
My kids do not fit the mold when it comes to like well-behaved, proper pastors kids Like they are high energy. Um, outgoing children and my church family will often say after Sunday morning like it's so good to see them and they like love my kids for who they are, which is such a blessing. Like they're never like talked down to because they're not behaving properly, because their dad's a pastor and they. Even this past Sunday I was feeling pretty under the weather with a migraine and really didn't feel like going to church and my kids were up and dressed and ready to go to church before I was, which I was like, okay, we'll go, because like who doesn't want that for their kids? And so it's just been really cool to see like that's a place they want to be and if we're ever sick or out of town, like they really do miss their church friends. And yeah, and those have been consistent with the recent in-town moves which has been a total blessing.

35:35 - Speaker 3
I have a personal question. Not that all of these are personal, anyway.

35:39 - Speaker 1
Right.

35:40 - Speaker 3
But you mentioned how, like you know, the divorce shaped. You know kind of just your thinking and your your worldview. Because for me, um, yeah, I really feel like it. I don't know in good way or bad ways, but it did definitely influence me in how I saw a significant other, right yeah, and like like I didn't realize I had all these attachment issues and abandonment issues. Okay, so for you, like navigating that and meeting your husband, like did it, affect it or did it like, help, like? How was that?

36:16 - Speaker 1
yeah, we talked about that like right off the bat, because he comes from a total different um upbringing. His parents were happily married. His dad did pass away um 13 years ago to cancer, right after we got married, and so that rocked us in a totally different way. Um, but when we got married we said, like divorce is just never an option. Like I learned from my parents what I don't want to do, which I think a lot of us do that um, but that like marriage is going to take a lot of work and there's going to be hard seasons and there's going to be easier seasons.

36:53
And even right now he's like sick and uh, what, he's going to kill me for this. He was snoring in bed last night, which he never does. He is like solid, quiet sleeper and I had to sleep on the couch last night so I'm like I can't sleep next to you. And he woke up this morning and he's joking. He's like but for illness, what is it called For better or worse for health and sickness? And I was like you can be sick, but I don't have to sleep in the same bed as you. So anyway, like there's gonna be hard seasons, like right now, like ministry is really hard for us right now. There's going to be hard seasons Like right now, like ministry is really hard for us right now and we're going through our own hard season and we've just learned in these last few months to lean into each other even more.

37:45
And that Satan is real and he is on the attack for.

37:46 - Speaker 3
Honestly, I've been noticing technology failed more and more, which convinces me we're closer to the end.

37:51 - Speaker 1
Right, okay.

37:52
So, as I was saying, yeah, so we're going through our own hard season and we've just learned to lean into each other even more, like praying together a lot more than we did before this hard season, reading scripture together, like even communicating better which has been our biggest struggle in our marriage is communication.

38:14
And also that like the enemy wants to win, especially when you're in ministry, like he's a pastor I serve for a Christian nonprofit Like he's on the attack and when we can recognize that and realize like no, satan, satan, you're not going to win, we're not going to be divided in our marriage, like that while we're in this hard season, is really it's not something I would ever want to walk through. It's not something that I'm going to let Satan win over. So I think, when it comes to marriage and divorce, it's I think what I've got going for me versus my parents is like a much stronger faith foundation and an evenly yoked marriage that they didn't have. So I think that's a huge, like a huge way that not I'm winning, but a huge way that we're succeeding in our marriage versus our parents.

39:16 - Speaker 3
A huge way that we're succeeding in our marriage versus our parents. Yeah, I mean the thing, the words that keep repeating over my life is my parents' generation. They were just learning how to survive. And now we get to bear the fruit of that, as they share, and we're able to thrive, and so that actually helps me to reframe all the things in the past, not in a bad way, but like it was just a necessity, and they did their best and I need to honor that.

39:43 - Speaker 2
And I need to honor that by living a better life now you know, not to say I'm better, but it's because I stand on their shoulders.

39:50 - Speaker 1
Right.

39:51 - Speaker 3
I completely agree.

39:52 - Speaker 1
Yeah, and I think each generation just wants to do better than the next. And I think we, especially in our adolescence, can think like, oh, we're going to do it better because you guys have really messed it up. But I think it's not until you hit adulthood, and parenthood especially, that you're like, oh, now I can see what they were going through and now I can realize like, yeah, that they just did the best they had. And I think it's really mature to go to your parents and say, like you know, to recognize that, just to verbalize that that, yeah, like I may have feel like you messed up, but I also know you did the best you could and we're just trying to mess up a little bit less every generation, both as a generation and for our kids.

40:40 - Speaker 3
Yeah, so God's been redefining the word home for me, because I think for so long I was trying to run away from home to find a new home. But now that, like in a funny way, like he made me stuck at home with my mom. Because I was in Atlanta the last two years and I had to move back and it's just a whole process, but God convicted my heart to like take care of her.

41:03
Just okay, I feel indebted to her, whatnot, but yeah, like that really pushed me to reconcile with my dad and then now I'm slowly incorporating how to love her the way she is, and so, in a funny way, like for me to like long for home God showed me home is wherever you are, and it's the family that he gave me and to be reconciled with them you know, and it's always not about running away from the bad things, but like can you stay in the bad place and as you change, then you can now start changing your relationship dynamics.

41:40
So that no matter where I go, I can always carry home with me now instead of always trying to find that perfect home.

41:47 - Speaker 1
Yeah, yeah, that's good. It's like when people ask where I'm from and I'm like, well, I was born in Canada, spent most of my life in New England and then have moved all across the country. So I'm like I don't really know where I'm from, like I can go to any of those places and it feels like home to me and like you know the cheesy saying of like home is where the heart is, but like it's really true, like home is where you're very true.

42:13
Home is where your people are, it's where, like the love of Christ, christ is. It's whatever you carry in your heart, like that's where home is.

42:23 - Speaker 3
So, and I feel like it's because god's teaching us that's what heaven feels like so we don't know where it is. We don't know what it looks like. We don't know what's going to happen, but we have a spiritual experience of this warm, fulfilling wholeheartedness around the people we love, and that environment is home.

42:45 - Speaker 1
And I tell everybody like I have no idea where heaven is, but I know what it feels like now. That's so funny. You said that because we were just on an airplane as a family and we were flying above the clouds and my eight-year-old looked at me and she said, are all the clouds right now? And I was like, yeah, like the clouds are there, the sun is here and uh she goes. But then where's heaven? And I was like I don't know how to answer this question.

43:08
Like we can't and I just said like we can't see heaven because we're not on that side of it yet, like we're still here on earth.

43:18 - Speaker 3
Yeah, I mean, what I would tell her is when you feel loved, you know that it's from Jesus and that's heaven, because wherever Jesus is, that's where heaven is. Yeah, yeah, I had a lot of practice in preschool because my first year was really hard because I had to do like a five minute sermon three times a week and yeah to explain like glory to a three-year-old yeah, the trinity has been a really tricky one.

43:49 - Speaker 1
Like how can it be Jesus and God and the Holy Spirit all at the same time? I was like that is a hard question to explain to a three-year-old.

43:59 - Speaker 3
The best explanation I heard was just like we are human, god is a certain kind of being, so there's human beings, and then there's God right, and so within that category of persons there's three persons who is a Father, son and Holy Spirit. And so that's just the simplest way. So there's three persons and they're all god, just like we're human, but you're my daughter, I'm a mother and this grandmother yeah, yeah, that's true, that's a good point so did you know that your husband was going to be a pastor when you met him?

44:38 - Speaker 1
That's a good question. No, so he graduated, he has an accounting degree and he has a BTS degree from undergrad biblical and theological studies. And so he thought we got married before I finished undergrad. I'm one of those like classic Christian college got my ring before spring, the whole that whole deal. So we got married between my junior and senior year, which I was just talking to my dad about this, and I was like, well, dad, it all worked out. We've been married 16 years, we're going're going strong, like. But my dad was nervous about that and um, but we just knew it was the right time and why wait any longer?

45:22 - Speaker 3
anyway, wait, when did he tell you why he was nervous about that?

45:26 - Speaker 1
um, I think he just told me because he just knew I was so young and he wanted to make sure like I could like enjoy my 20s or just like grow up a little bit more. But like being the oldest of the oldest kid in a divorced home, like it kind of forced me to grow up a lot younger than I would have liked, which my dad also has recognized in the past. But we were, my dad and I were talking about like parenting and and he did say, like I'm so glad you guys, we waited like seven years to have kids after I got married at age 21. And I'm really glad I did that because we really like and did enjoy getting to know each other and those you know, our 20s before children. It's a huge life change.

46:12
But all that to say, when we got married, just before we got married, my husband was trying to find an accounting job and he had so many interviews in a time when, like, the accounting industry in 2007 was booming in Chicago. Um, all his friends out of undergrad got jobs and he like came so close on a couple of interviews, like down to to the final candidates, and he just could not get a job, and so that was always like not his passion, like his passion has always been ministry since he was a teenager, which I kind of knew in the back of my mind but wasn't really prepared for that to become reality. But when he could not find an accounting job he was like, well, maybe I'll just go straight into seminary. And that was kind of his like five 10 year plan at that point. But he's like, if this isn't panning out, let's see what happens.

47:04
So within like two weeks he was accepted and enrolled in seminary and like everything changed and he was like, okay, I feel like this is what God's calling us to right now. So, yeah, I thought I was going to marry an accountant and then ended up marrying a pastor, but it's all worked out. So our first year marriage I was just thinking about this last night. It was crazy. Like I was in college, mostly student teaching, but had a full course load working part time. He was working part time and in seminary, full time. Like I don't know how we survived, like literally by the grace of God, but it was a lot of fun.

47:46 - Speaker 3
I call those the training years where it kind of throws you in the fire and you're just like OK, just survive.

47:51 - Speaker 1
And you look back and you're like oh, you are preparing me yeah yeah, totally Like I don't know how we paid the bills back then and didn't only eat ramen noodles, but we did it and uh, and it was fun. Yeah. So he did seminary. He got his um masters of divinity in three years. He went like year round through the summers um and then went straight into ministry after that.

48:20 - Speaker 3
So what would you say? Um, as a young wife, right for people, because you know people are pushing marriage further and further out, right, yeah yeah, based on your, what would you say? I know it's always context dependent on the people but, what are the advantages and disadvantages, or the benefits and challenges, of being married earlier than later?

48:47 - Speaker 1
in your opinion, biggest advantage to us getting married young is that we went through a lot of developmental like stages together, like your early 20s in college and outside of college just after college are huge like life-changing times. Um, so to look back after 16 years and realize like he's been by my side and I've been by his during that whole time and to see how we've changed as individuals is really awesome. Like I can I don't have the best memory in the world, but he does, and so he can like recall you know how I was when we first got married and how God is like working in me and how God has changed me. And we'll often like remind me of that and encourage me where, if we had gone through those times like just dating, like it's just not the same and just to have like a lot of shared life experience too, like again could have done that when we were dating. But it's just different when you're married and you get to. You get to go on vacation or go through his dad dying, for instance, like if we had been dating, that would have been a completely different experience than being married, I don't know, and we just had a lot of fun Like I think the whole thing is like people think like marriage isn't fun and like that's the end, but like we just made sure we had fun.

50:22
And you know, he always for those first seven years he was ready to be a dad, like he's always wanted to be a dad, and so it was a lot of me like nope, I'm not ready yet, like let's keep waiting. But that all worked out too. So, yeah, I can't really think of any cause. I don't know any different. I don't know I can't think of anything.

50:50 - Speaker 3
That was perfect, thank you. So this question I'm going to put into context, because I went to seminary and in seminary, like you went to Bible college like yeah, those girls are like like on the hunt for a pastor. Now we thought that was weird, right. But on the flip side, you know, like there are Christian girls that are like so, like like hesitant against like marrying a pastor. So there's these two extremes, and both of them are sometimes really overwhelming of like. Why do you think that way? Can we just be like friends and to know each other.

51:21
And it's not about like what you do. Yeah, what would you say to somebody who's like only looking for a pastor, or someone who's like hesitant being pastor with you not thinking you're marrying a pastor, but he became a pastor?

51:35 - Speaker 1
Yeah, yeah, I think I would say, put some self-reflection on yourself and your own personal identity and not tie it to someone else's, because pastors are walking away from the church left and right. And so why would we focus on, like I want to marry a pastor, not like find the person that's right for you? And that's what we did, like he was, he's completely the right person for me and he just like happened to do a major right turn in his career, kind of too late, like we were already like committed to each other and it's not like I could back out then. But I also think, like I think in the early years of his ministry, in our marriage I did a lot of pushback when I would like be introduced as the pastor's wife and I didn't want this like you know, instant connotation of what my life should look like or how I should act. And I think, especially at our church now, like it's just such a healthy place where I can just be.

52:41
Ashley, you know, I'm sure people see like they still see me as the pastor's wife, but not like the typical traditional pastor's wife of our parents' generation, and so I would just say like, like don't look at it as either it's the worst thing in the world or it's the best thing, because, like, ministry is hard, being a pastor is a super hard calling, and so I would say, like, find your foundation in your relationship first, and who God has called you to be and who God has called your marriage to look like, and like, like, find that foundation in Christ and your marriage not on jobs or titles or anything, cause all of that can change and really the only constant is Jesus. So why not found, found our marriage on that.

53:35 - Speaker 3
I'm going to end this podcast with a few, a couple of questions. What is your fondest memory from childhood?

53:45 - Speaker 1
Oh, that's a good one. I spent a lot of time in the summer with both my aunt she lived on Long Island and my grandma in Canada, and I think my parents gave me the gift of being with those relatives and they also gave themselves the gift of um giving themselves a break once, you know, for a week each summer. Um, but those are some of my fondest memories and I think that gives me a lot of comfort in when my son like spends extra time with his grandmas right now because I'm working full time and he's still in preschool. Like, instead of finding guilt that I'm not with him all the time, I'm finding like no, he's making memories with his grandmas that are going to carry him through, and I've got those similar memories with um with those relatives in my life, and so that was just like the highlight of my summer each year, especially my aunt, long Island.

54:45
Like she was a lot of fun. She didn't have her own kids, um, she passed away pretty recently and I just like have such fond memories of like ways that she would just make my time with her son that as an adult, I'm like that really probably wasn't that much work, but I thought it was the best thing ever like whether it was like the beach or the pool or just like going shopping for a whole day, like it was a lot of fun so we just hang out yeah, just really like hanging out and having one-on-one time with my aunt and like, go figure, my love language is quality time.

55:21
So I think that speaks to why that really made an impact on me.

55:27 - Speaker 3
Is there anyone you would want to reconnect with that you lost touch over the years?

55:34 - Speaker 1
I lost touch with a good number of my high school friends and I am just in awe of the people that, like, are still really good friends with their childhood friends. So I actually my best friend from high school is in Portland, so not too far from me, and we are going to have the chance to be together in May after a long time of not even hearing each other's voices, and so I'm really excited to look forward. I'm looking forward to reconnecting with her, and she just became a mom a little over a year ago, which is wild. Like she really did like delay marriage, delay parenthood, all the things and so I'm really excited to reconnect with her, just in a totally different context of being mom.

56:21 - Speaker 3
So that's, that's awesome. Yeah, uh, well, one last, well, not last question, but like one last personal question if you could have dinner with one person that's living or dead, who would you be?

56:33 - Speaker 1
not do this, okay. Okay, one person living or dead, oh gosh, okay. So I love the crown, uh, the netflix series. So I would probably say princess diana, like because she I remember I wasn't, I heard that she died and like, even though I'm not british at all, like she just had such an impact on people. But also watching that show and realizing like, oh man, like I'm not British at all, like she just had such an impact on people. But also watching that show and realizing like, oh man, like it was not all sunshine and roses and she went through so much stuff.

57:06
So, yeah, I'd want to ask her just like, oh gosh, I think I think, like, how would you like self, I don't know? I'd ask her like ways that she could do better at taking care of herself. I think I've learned like she tried to advocate for herself. But you know, push had a lot of pushback from the family and so, and also just like she was such a good mom and I think I would probably ask her questions about motherhood, like, what do you enjoy about being a mom? What was hard about being a mom, especially in the position that she was in? And I think, like, what would you do differently? Especially, you know she died at a pivotal time of her son's ages, so what would you tell them now that you missed out on telling them when you were alive? Things like that.

58:10 - Speaker 3
Yeah, that's great. Thanks, I'm going to steal those, those questions. What are you hoping for at Faithly?

58:21 - Speaker 1
Just better connection amongst believers and church leaders and, yeah, just people in ministry that feel like they're doing it alone, feel like they're doing it alone um connection and I think also in moving across the country I've found like the nuances of the different pockets of our country and culture and things like that, and so learning more about um west coast culture where I am is very different than the other parts of the country I've lived in and um, and also learning like what the needs are from pastors and church leaders that we at MomCo could do a better job of equipping them with or um helping them like meet the needs of their community. So I'm just really excited to connect with people.

59:16 - Speaker 3
And how can we bring for you and your family?

59:21 - Speaker 1
As I mentioned, we're going through a hard time in ministry and so just be praying that God's faithfulness continues to show up, that God keeps showing up, and so praying for that and that this year would just be fruitful in our ministry and also just our kids, like they're ever changing. Like as a parent, you just always feel like you're playing catch up on what they're going through. Next, say, like pray for um, my oldest, she, um, she is a super genuine, loving kid, but um having a hard time with like math and phonics and um, and just how I can best support her in her academics when she doesn't love it. Um. And then my other two kids just, yeah, like how to best parent them in the ways that they need, and also, like I was thinking about the other day, how our parents have to discipline each kid so differently and parent each kid so differently because of their different personalities. So how can I better be flexible in my parenting with each of my kids but also be fair and also like just show Jesus to them um, every day?

01:00:50 - Speaker 3
I didn't really study until like junior year of college and I didn't finish a book until seminary, so you'll be fine.

01:00:58 - Speaker 2
I turned out okay.

01:01:00 - Speaker 3
So just encouraging you Life is very long, you know, yeah.

01:01:07 - Speaker 1
Yeah, for sure.

01:01:09 - Speaker 3
Thanks for this, yeah.

01:01:12 - Speaker 1
Thank you, it was really good to talk to you too.

01:01:14 - Speaker 3
That's it for the podcast. Bye guys.

01:01:15 - Speaker 2
All right. Thank you for tuning in to the Faithly Stories podcast. We pray this episode gave you the encouragement you needed to continue on your journey. The Faithly Stories podcast is brought to you by Faithly, an online community committed to empowering church leaders, pastors, staff and volunteers. The Faithly digital platform offers innovative and practical tools and resources to enhance connection, foster collaboration and promote growth within the church and ministry space. Remember to subscribe, rate and review our podcast to help reach more listeners like you. Stay tuned for more uplifting tales from the front lines of ministry on the Faithly podcast. Stay bold, stay faithful and never underestimate the power of your own story.