The Art of Netweaving - Kay Hiramine

00:00 - Speaker 1 Well, I came home and I went to the Buddhist shrine at my house and I prayed over it. I just made a simple declaration. I said, buddha, I don't serve you anymore, I serve Jesus. And then my mom and dad were sleeping in their bed and I just said a silent prayer over them. I said, lord, I just commit them to your hands and I pray that they would know you like I know you now. And then I went to bed. Next morning. I came in, it was early and my dad looked at me without even saying anything, alicia, and said you became a Christian last night. 00:29 - Speaker 2 Welcome to Faithly Stories, the podcast that brings you inspiring tales from conversations with church leaders as they navigate the peaks and valleys of their faith journeys through their ministry work and everyday life. Join us as we delve into their challenges, moments of encouragement and everyday life. Join us as we delve into their challenges, moments of encouragement and answered prayers. The Faithly Stories podcast is brought to you by Faithly, an online community committed to empowering church leaders, pastors, staff and volunteers. Learn more at faithlyco. Get ready to be uplifted and inspired as we unveil the heart of faith through stories from the front lines of ministry. On the Faithly Stories podcast. 01:10 - Speaker 3 Okay, welcome to Faithly Stories. It is such a pleasure to have you here with us today. You are a netweaver of relationships and you really sit at the intersection of relationships and leadership and capital and faith. You've worked in corporate, you've planted two churches, you've worked at investment firms. You still work at investment firms. I think that just in saying all of that, I'm starting to develop an idea of what a net weaver might be. But let's start. 01:45 - Speaker 1 That's a person that can't hold a job. That's basically it, Alicia. 01:49 - Speaker 3 Or a person that has so much to offer they need more than one job. But maybe we could start from the beginning, kay, and talk a little bit about what your faith journey has been like, how it started and led you to some of these different jobs. 02:03 - Speaker 1 Of course. No problem, alicia, thank you so much for having me on with Faithfully. I just a great admirer of your work and your passion and your vision to actually do this. It's a long time in coming and so, and the way you've constructed it and built it, engineered it, you know. Praise God that God's using you through this. 02:20 So a little bit about my background. My name is Kei Hidamine. I'm Japanese American. I was born in California. My parents immigrated over from Japan in 1956, and I was born in the United States, in California. 02:37 So I grew up in a Buddhist home and so for me, really foundationally didn't know anything about God, was not really aware of God. I saw churches around but I never went into one because we had a little Buddhist shrine at our house and we would pray to it three times a day and we would burn incense and put fruit on there as a sacrifice. I mean, we were doing ancestral worship, so we have pictures of our family members there and so for me my faith journey is pretty wild. So outwardly like most typical Asian Americans, not to generalize, but we're kind of super overachievers, we're very education is really an idol in Asian homes, so we really push education as the way to be successful or image or face. You know, asian cultures are mostly honor shame cultures versus Western is more guilt, right and wrong right. So it's got to look good, the family's got to look good, and that's done through the expression, typically through education and higher education and such. So outwardly, I was a very successful student, alicia, and you know 4.0, ap honors, all that stuff. And yet inside I was just dying. You know an extra crook. I was checking all the boxes because I was heading off to Ivy Leagues or whatever academies I was looking at as well, and but inwardly I was just dying, but inwardly I was just dying. 04:02 And so I started reading in my junior year in high school, camus, nietzsche, really, some nihilistic writings typically. And if you go through the logical progression of nihilism, existentially it leads to why exist, why even live. And so, man, I was going down that dark road of, you know, just going. Man, what is my purpose in my life? And even at 17, I was questioning that. But through an encounter that I had which is another that's another, probably another podcast I came to Christ pretty radically. I came to Christ pretty radically at an event in that was actually a secular event for student leaders. This would be 1980. So it's a little bit of a date. I'm 60 years old, so this was in 1980, august 1, 1980. 05:00 - Speaker 3 16 years young Kay. 05:02 - Speaker 1 Oh, thank you, Thank you. And so came off that mountaintop experience with an encounter with the Lord and I started searching. I was like the person looking for the pearl of great price. I knew it was out there and, man, I wanted to find it and I wanted to find Jesus. So within about five or six months I was able to come into a relationship with the Lord, excuse me, and and my father. So I'll put it in progression. 05:40 So I started attending Bible studies and then my father started saying I was getting more serious because I was going to church and and he says, finally, said to me one Saturday he goes you know, okay, you're getting really serious about this Christian thing. You know, we're Buddhists. That's who our family is, that's our identity. And if you become a Christian, who's going to pray to me when I die? It's just for worship, and you're the only male. So it's even more important because we're not going to give it to her. Our daughters Regression there and I just was like, yeah, you're right, you know, I'm not going to, I'm not going to make that sacrifice, because he was threatening to kick me out of the house. I had to change my last name, so it was a total shame thing on me. 06:18 So that was Saturday, sunday, I go to service and I walk into service and by then I'd become really good friends with my youth pastor, who I'd been going to Bible studies with and everything, and I wanted to tell him what my dad said and that I could not come back to church or Bible studies and things like that. And so my pastor at the time, david, came walking up after worship and he goes hey, kay, how are you doing? Gave a big hug? And hey, kay, how are you doing? Give a big hug? And hey, are we going to have lunch? I said, well, you know, actually I need to talk to you about something pretty serious. My dad laid on me and he goes okay, but before you say that, I want to share with you what the Lord was impressing upon me during service, during worship. I said okay, what is it? And he goes Kay, the Lord impressed upon me to give you a scripture which says Whosoever gives up mother, father, brother, fields and my name for the sake of the gospel, will receive a hundredfold. And that's all I got. I was like, oh my gosh, seriously, I said, and I told him. I said, david, this is what my dad said and so I shared with him. He just started crying, hugged me and said well, you have a decision you need to make and so I'll be praying for you. 07:30 So for that whole next week I struggled and really wrestled with the Lord, ran away from him and started drinking again all this stuff, partying that whole week, because I just was avoiding to make a decision. But Friday rolled around and I was ready, so I went in for prayer. I went down to my pastor's house and he always had it open. It was wild times, right. So he lived in the quote wrong part of town. He lived, he was a bivocational pastor and so he was a mechanic as well as a pastor of this church that was just starting a church plant, and his front door was always open. He had homeless people staying with him, you know, on the couch, you know, and he had a back room though that where people would go in there and I was like trying to avoid the back room because everybody goes in there, it comes out wouldn't party with me anymore. They weren't any fun. I was quite the hellion younger days. But I went into the room and for the next few hours he led me to the Lord and prayed for me. I was shocked because I hadn't said anything and I said how do you know he goes? I can tell what happened and you know, in the Bible it says deep speaks to deep, nothing's hidden right. And so I was like shocked but not surprised, because I just felt totally different. I had a joy and a hope in my heart now and a peace, which is so important. 09:24 And he escalated his anger, got a lot of anger issues. He was alcoholic. He was very abusive in many ways to my mom and my sisters and I. So it was a very dysfunctional home, but he wasn't drunk that morning. He was abused, but he got escalated in anger over two and a half hours and finally threatened to kill me with a knife and kick me out of the house and David had to pick me up in his car and so I stayed with him for a while until we reconciled enough where I could come back home. But my father and I didn't talk for a long time. I had to go through my mom, you know, or he'd say very gruff things to me. 10:00 Then I went off to college. Okay, so that's kind of my life journey with Jesus in a nutshell. So in college, college was really formative and for me it was very foundational in my walk with Jesus, and some two books other than the Word, obviously the Bible two books that really were foundational in my walk as a leader and a follower of Jesus was the Cost of Discipleship, and Life Together, written by Dietrich Bonhoeffer, was the Cost of Discipleship and Life Together, written by Dietrich Bonhoeffer. And it was such a radical experience in this campus group that we actually even bought homes as students near the campus. We bought cars so that people could use them collectively, so people who couldn't have transport. We did street ministry and mercy ministries to the homeless in the area and even racially we were going across, you know, because it's a pretty white school, to be fair, and as a multi-ethnic expression of who Jesus is. We were out there in the community, which was largely Hispanic, there in Oxfam College, which is in Eagle Rock, california. 11:04 From there I really wanted to go into ministry and I felt like the Lord called me to ministry, alicia, and I just was like talking to my elders of my church. I went at that time I was going to Glendale Presbyterian Church in Glendale and I asked my elders. I said, hey, I really sense a call to ministry. Can you process this with me, as my elders and the three of them sat me down and said? And they said, hey, okay, you know, there's obviously a call to leadership on your life, but there's a lot of pastors that don't really know what real life is about. I said, well, what do you mean by that? They go from Bible college and then they go to seminary and then they get a call to a church, but they've never worked a day in their life in the secular world. I was like, oh, they said, would you commit to five years in the secular world and then we will deputize you to go to seminary from here? I said, five years I've submitted to leadership. 12:01 These guys were very wise and and godly men and I just said, great, uh, one guy was a guy named George Barna. He started Barna Research. Yeah, this church was amazing. Another one was a guy named Bill Gregg III who had Gospel Light publications, regal Books, and then the third one was a friend of mine named Ralph Winter, who's an executive producer in Hollywood, did all the X-Men and all kinds of stuff. So these, you know, they were only about four or five years older, but I really respected them. 12:31 So I went and started looking for a job and my first job was at Procter and Gamble little mom and pop company out of Cincinnati, and I was in sales with them and then and then met my wife. They wanted me to move to Cincinnati. I wasn't willing to go and live in Cincinnati. Plus, I don't really like Skyline Chili, which is what they're famous for in the Cincinnati, and I don't like the Reds, cause I'm a Dodgers guy. Um and so, uh, worked for a global banker commercial real estate for two years and then at the end of the five years, just as promised by my elders, I went to Fuller Seminary. So Fuller Seminary is a theological seminary and I was in the School of World Missions in Pasadena. Hope I'm not boring you on this, so I can tell you no. 13:17 - Speaker 3 I'm just. It's taking all my self-control not to break in with a million questions. I'm curious in your five years working in the secular world, working in corporate, were you, were you enjoying it or were you like sort of counting down the clock? I know I'm like anxious to go to ministry, anxious to to get started you know at first. 13:39 - Speaker 1 Yeah, I mean remember 21 years old, um, getting sucked into this corporate America thing, great salary, wearing suits, yada, yada, yada. It was very seductive in that standpoint of the world. However, because of my foundation in my college years, we really lived a life of simplicity. So during those times I actually lived with four other people and I supported them completely in their ministry and I basically I paid for the apartment there's a, two bedrooms, so we all live together and so I financially supported them as well as basically buying groceries and stuff too. So I basically took care of these folks who were part-time folks. They also had jobs, but I was kind of the lion's share of the finances and that's how I saw myself. 14:31 We lived in community life together, right, and so I was still very committed in those years to do that, at least for the first year, year and a half, and that really also made me become and started an awareness of that there's no difference between the sacred and secular, that all people are called to ministry, right. Whether you're a full-time worker, as a pastor or missionary, when you're in business, you can be a minister of the gospel that you're sharing, jesus, by the way you do your work. So that faith and work is really. I love this new expression that's happening in the church right now. This is super important. So back in the remember this is 80s, right, so 87, 88. So for me I was coming in there was no nomenclature, there was no language around faith at work, you know, and it's just so exciting to see how that's developed. 15:27 - Speaker 3 Cool, cool, wow. I'm looking behind your shoulder, by the way, to see if there's like seven other families living with you, because even from like the beginning of your story, you know talking about like the pastor at the church plant where you went, like the doors were open right to hearing about how you lived in your years in corporate, like with others, right, supporting them, supporting one another. I can't help but think of the Acts Church and I have a feeling that that sort of theme just runs through your life and through your ministry. 16:01 - Speaker 1 Yeah and that's one of the most important decisions that you can make in your life is your spouse, and you want that spouse, that partner, to run at the same speed and intensity with you in your walk with Jesus. Otherwise you're either dragging them into something they don't feel called to or they're running ahead of you that you're trying to keep up with. And so really praying that God would bring that equilibrium together is super important. And so really praying that God would bring that equilibrium together is super important. And so my wife, julie. We've married 35 years. We have five daughters, two son-in-laws and our first grandbaby girl. 16:39 But Julie, what I was so attracted to Julie about was her passion for Jesus and to be open to whatever the Lord has. I'm a high risk taker for me, so that's kind of my personality type. So I was looking for a woman that I could really walk with, run with and really do ministry with, whether it's in the secular world, business or in a full-time ministry. I mean she's more pastoral than I am. Bluntly, when people come to me for pastoral counseling I'm like, okay, let's take it across, let's pray about it, let's nail it to the cross, don't pick it up, leave it there, and if they come back again, I go. You're an idiot. What the heck's going on? You know I have very low mercy gifts. Now my wife, though if you set up a point with her, she'll be like well, let's read this book together, so I am not that kind of person pastorally. 17:34 She's much more pastoral than I am anyway so you went to seminary finally for five years what was that like for you? 17:41 it was awesome. I really enjoyed seminary because after working 80 hours a week basically in business and was somewhat successful from the world's eyes, but inwardly I was really yearning to grow in my discipline, theologically as well as missiologically, and really doing church planting. That's what I really felt like and whether it was overseas or not didn't really matter. Julie and I really felt the call to do that. We didn't back then church planting was kind of the buzzword but it could also mean missions as well. So we went to the School of World Missions, now called Intercultural Studies at Fuller Theological Seminary in Pasadena and at that time I needed work. So I became a teaching assistant for a professor there named Dr C Peter Wagner, which was a church growth professor at that time, and then he later wrote a number of books on prayer and spiritual warfare and mobilized what was called the 1040 window Missiologically just prayer for the 1040 window, the unreached people groups across around the world. So I was his TA, which was super exciting time. 18:53 Pasadena during those in those 90, early nineties was such a vibrant place for missions and unreached people groups. So we had the US Center of World Missions with Ralph Winter. Joshua Project was up there doing analysis and research on unreached people, groups and trying to find out where they are. We had the Center for Buddhist Outreach. I mean there was a number of things. Muslim on and on and on. There was a vibrancy. And then, of course, fuller, you would have people from all over the world coming who were leaders being primed to take over their movements or denominations back home. So yeah, it was just an incredible, incredible time of vibrancy and relationships and such. 19:34 But at that time Julie and I actually started a Bible study. Like we were like okay, we're coming out of the varsity, you start a Bible study, right. So we started a Bible study. But what was so interesting, everybody we invited didn't come, but they told someone else to come and a lot of them were not even saved, which was awesome. We were like oh great, we can lead them to the Lord. You know, and by the end of about, I'd say, four or five months into it, we had over 80, 90 people showing up, 100 people showing up in our two-bedroom apartment on the third floor in Pasadena, south Pasadena. 20:11 - Speaker 3 Where did everybody sit? 20:14 - Speaker 1 On the balcony, on the floors. We actually had people sitting in the stairwell going up and down, and I'd have to share the message with one foot inside the door and also one foot in the stairwell, and all my neighbors would open their doors. They're elderly people and they loved it that they could listen to these young people singing and I'd share a message. So we had worship for a few songs. I'd share about 15 minutes, because that's about all I had, and then, and then I'd give an invitation, because you always give an invitation, right, and then people started getting saved. I was like, oh my gosh, this is incredible. And then so we baptized them and then we'd eat together and it was hilarious, faithfully. So no faith, alicia. So it was an amazing time in that God was moving during that time in my life, julie's life, and and we started plugging them into small groups. Right, that's what you do in a varsity you put them into small groups and with the women, with the women, and the men, with the men, and we just separate. So we had 30, 40 people in each small groups and multiple small groups. So it got to the point where I had asked my professor if I could please, please, please, please, get an extension. And he goes. Well, kate, you never asked that. He's the Dean at the time, dean Pearson. And he goes. Kate, why are you asking about an extension? I said, well, I got this Bible study and it's really busy. And he goes. Well, tell me what this Bible study is. So I shared with him. And he goes. Well, katie, do you take an offering? I go no, I don't take an offering. Why would I take an offering? It's a Bible study. And he goes you planted a church. I said no, I didn't want a church. He goes yes, you did. Because you planted the church. Because how many people are getting saved? I said I told him you know 80 people. 21:55 And he's like, hey, he goes. Why did you come to Fuller? I said, well, I'm gonna be a church planner. He goes okay, you don't need to be here anymore because you need. This is the dean of, this is my, you know. 22:06 And I said well, dean, I, he goes, he goes, you should just leave and just keep at your church. I said I can't do that. I'm Asian, we don't quit at school. And he started laughing. He goes, okay, well, that's an idolatry, but he goes. 22:24 Okay, you have planted a church and if you don't believe that, you're in denial. And there's a great professor over at the School of Psychology where we're going to send you, sun Yantan, and he goes. He's going to help you walk through this, but first we're going to get you legal. So he literally called up a lawyer in Pasadena and he goes yeah, some of the costs of the yeah, it was an incredible time, god's provision and just affirmation and confirmation in that. Well, that church is called Vision Christian Fellowship, which is still going. In Pasadena, california. They just bought a building across from Pasadena City College. They're in Colorado Boulevard and my friends that we planted the church with, so to speak, they are now the senior pastors and lead that for the last 30 plus years, because we left California in 95 with the ministry that we were with at the time, so I did ministry stuff. You have a question or something like that? I'm sorry. 23:32 - Speaker 3 Well, no, I'm just I'm like silently marveling here and reflecting on what you said. You went to Fuller to learn how to church plant and you planted a church and didn't realize it. It's a quiet accident. It's just kind of amazing. 23:51 - Speaker 1 Well, it's a sovereignty of God. I mean really. I mean I tell people, you know, if, if you know, I shouldn't be surprised, because if God can use me, you know he used, you know, balaam's donkey. So I mean, so I, I should be surprised. But I did keep going taking a course there and it was still the TA for Peter Wagner. I did keep taking a course there and it was still a TA for Peter Wagner, Dr Wagner, and then he invited me to be a part of his ministry and so I was his executive director for a number of years, moved to Colorado Springs, helped raise $10 million for the World Prayer Center in Colorado Springs on the New Life Church property in Colorado, and was with him from 92 to 99. And then after that I've done a number of things. I'll go highlights here because I know we're going sorry about that long story but I thought it'd be helpful for those listening. 24:41 So after that I had a transition time, which is always the painful time. I left the ministry and I didn't know what I was going to do, so I was really like searching and trying to figure it all out. So that was a two-year timeframe of just really seeking the Lord and I think God used that time to really kill me of a lot of pride and arrogance that had developed over being really successful in business and in ministry. And in the ministry we grew by leaps and bounds into the millions of dollars a year doing conferences for 10,000 people, yada, yada, yada. You know, hanging out in the green room with all these Christian celebrities and cutting deals with them and publishing their books. And I mean I did a number of things like that and that's got really heady. And I'd say spiritual pride is like bad body odor Everybody else smells it except you and I had it pretty bad, lisa, yeah. And so God, I think, really needed to do some soul surgery in my life and I needed to come to the Lord and die to self in those areas. 25:41 And after that I started a consulting company that worked with the US government in different areas like how to engage the church in private sector, in different areas like how to engage the church in private sector, nonprofit and businesses, small businesses and large businesses. We worked with large businesses like Federal Express, walmart, citibank, delta Airlines and such Home Depot. How did they work with the US government during a disaster? This was in 2001. And so my team I'm not smart enough, so is my team that I brought together in my company we wrote the white papers for that which then became what's called the Private Sector Integration Office, which later evolved to the Faith-Based Community Initiatives Office. So that's kind of the genesis of some of that, how we were able to play a small part in helping the church be able to engage with the government in those areas. So that was my for-profit company. 26:36 And then I had a nonprofit that we started because of our conviction to help the poor out of James 127. So true religion, undefiled before the father, is ministering to widows and orphans in their distress and remaining unstained from the world. And James 127 was the guiding thing for our humanitarian organization, which was secular, it wasn't a faith-based organization because we wanted to work in the world, not become of it, but in it. And we did disaster response and sustainable development and we had an impact fund for about a million dollars a year in about 80 nations and we raised up about 880 small indigenous local disaster response agencies to build their capacity to work with UN agencies during a disaster. So that was super exciting. We started over, I think, about 20,000, 25,000 businesses, micro businesses, and we funded a ton of things like that. That was my humanitarian world. 27:33 And then I had my for-profit world that, like I said, I worked for the US government and also worked for corporations as well. After that, that lasted until 2012. And then, from since then, I've been doing a lot of different consulting at pretty high levels with organizations not high level, meaning at a strategic level with CEOs and corporations, on international expansion, because I have a lot of connections overseas, specifically in Asia in particular. I'm pretty strong, but I know pretty much folks everywhere through my long life that I've had. That God's given me. 28:10 And then one thing that's been really interesting in my life has been just different diversity of things that I've been involved in. So everything from nonprofits to faith-based groups to for-profit companies, both big and small, to large corporations, us governments I have a lot of experience in those different areas of sectors and it's given me a great purview into how they operate and look. And I just I'm a very curious person. I love learning about cultures, love people. Kingdom of God is all about relationships, and so for me, just learning in the context of culture is really super important, whether it's a corporate culture or whether it's ministry. It's super important for that and one big chunk of my life that I've spent a lot of time God's really been working on me is the whole area of generosity. So I work for an organization called Generous Giving, which basically helps people in their areas of generosity, people of high capacity. So we've administered to over 50,000, 60,000 high net worth individuals across the United States that have gone through a study that we do called the Journey of Generosity. 29:25 You can look it up. It's super cool. It's only like one night long and it really helps them to recapture the joy. Because you know folks of means, people with wealth. You know people in churches that have finances. They're often hit up all the time. They feel like an ATM machine and the Bible says that we're supposed to be a cheerful giver. 29:44 It's hard when it happens over and over again. You know all you're being hit up for you're known for is a person who's going to cut a check over again. You know that all you're being hit up for you're known for is a person's going to cut a check and and that's just for sure to the soul for them. And and yet, because you see they're conflicted, they believe that god wants them to be joyful, but yet they know they're called to create wealth, but yet they feel like they're being used or manipulated by it. And so there's an inner conflict, and what this study, jenner's Giving, really does is come alongside people to say you know, you can actually be joyful, and these are some sort of inspirational stories. You can ask the Holy Spirit to speak to you. What an area of your life that needs to not only die to but also aspire to in light of how God's created you, to be with you and your family. 30:33 And there's a sister ministry called Generosity Path, which I also worked for four years with, which mobilizes people of high net worth and stuff all over the world. I think they're in over 60 nations now, but I helped open up all of Asia and raised up local workers there to help carry the warfare. So Korea, japan, indonesia, singapore, cambodia, vietnam, australia, new Zealand, a few other countries I helped open up there. So, yeah, so generosity is a big deal for me up there. 31:14 - Speaker 3 So yeah, so generous generosity is a big deal for me, wow. So I can't help but be struck by how you weave things together, or how the Lord uses you to weave things together, crisscrossing geographies, crisscrossing, you know, industry, faith, nonprofit. Was it those experiences that led you to say, hey, I'm a net weaver? Like, how did that come about? Because when someone looks for you online, that's what they find. They find okay. Net weaver of relationships. 31:43 - Speaker 1 Yeah, I believe God calls everybody to relationships. God calls everybody to relationships. We were created to live in community, not only with a spouse out of an eve with God in the garden. Obviously it starts with God and then many of your spouse, through your family, your community, your church and then central. So we're all created to live within community. 32:10 And those that are feeling isolated, I just want to encourage you that god can help you through that time of isolation. You feel like you're being isolated and it really is a life from the devil bluntly to isolate and marginalize you because he likes picking off people one by one, but when you come together it says one will put a thousand, two put ten thousand. So I want to encourage someone out there right now that's feeling isolated and marginalized or feeling very alone, to step out by faith. Ask God to give you even the courage to call someone and just get together with them and pray together. Yeah, okay, net weaving. So net weaving for me is all about relationships. The greatest gift you can give a friend is a friend, and I just feel that. And since the Lord wanted to rebuild his kingdom through relationships, rather than hierarchy and structures per se, you need structure, you need systems and processes. I get it. 33:06 I ran a change management company for four years, so I understand change management A little bit. At least I had other, smarter people tell me the cliff notes. But all that to say is God has called us to be in a relationship. I'm naturally very curious about people, like I shared earlier, so I lean into it, but it's also there's a level of expectancy that God is going to surprise me with something that I'm going to be really joyful about and excited about, because each person has a story, and that story is not just their story to share, but it's also a story for me to participate in. How can I come alongside a person in their journey and their story? We're all on journeys, we're all sojourners, as it says in the Bible, and sometimes there's times when God brings us together in the intersection of relationship built through a sacred trust. I call it that something just spiritually magical happens. 34:01 You know, not magical in a bad sense, but it's almost mystical when you can come up and serve people and not expect anything in return. I say that networking's very transactional, but net weaving is transformational, not only for that person but also for yourself, and so I love connecting and making those relationships happen. 34:28 - Speaker 3 Maybe I could just break in and say that since the time that you and I were introduced, I've gotten an email from you once a week, once every other week, saying hey, alicia, meet this person. Alicia, talk to this person. You two have to get to know each other. So you really I mean, you really walk what you talk. I just wanted to put that out there. 34:52 - Speaker 1 Thanks, alicia. Yeah, I love doing that, especially for friends, but I do it for everybody. I mean, I'm kind of known as the net weaver of relationships, but I don't think it's a unique call or gifting for just me. I believe we all have different, varied levels of net weaving and really ultimate comes down to trust. So often people build silos of relationships where they're like oh, they're my relationship, especially when it comes around monies or donors or people who give. 35:22 I see that a lot and I tell them you know, you're living in a lack mentality. God calls us to be in an abundance mentality, in that God owns everything and even as you give away, he replenishes and even gives even more to give away. So how much more? So, which is the most valuable in the world is relationships. It's not gold, it's not silver, it's not fiat, money, it's not all that other stuff that we call saddle in this world, but it's relationship. I have a phrase I say the only thing that's going to get you in heaven is it's not what you know, it's who you know. I mean, when we're in heaven, we're not going to talk about the cars we had or the extra house we had or the boat we had. We're going to talk about man. 36:05 I met this awesome individual named Lisa Lee. She does this amazing project called Faithly that helps so many pastors and full-time workers find purpose in their lives. That's cool. Oh, by the way, that's the person over there at the banqueting table. That's the other person over there and all those people that were impacted by that person because they found purpose in their life with Jesus. 10,000 people in their community came to know the Lord because of that person, this faith that helped them find that vocation or that placing. You know ways. It's elements, digitizing, the whole aspect of net weaving right. It's a platform for that. 36:47 - Speaker 3 Yeah, in some ways I don't want to project that on you, but no, I I thought that you were 100 spot on um. It doesn't replace net weaving. It's meant to help enhance it, to take all the net weaving that you've been practicing and that you tell others to do, and to amplify it even just a little bit yeah, yeah. 37:04 - Speaker 1 So. So I was sitting with a friend of mine named ken coleman I don't know if anybody out there listens to dave ramsey shows and stuff financial plan he's one of their tops, you know whatever faces or you know he has his own show and all that. He's also in fox news business commentator contributor. Very interesting become a really good friend of mine and he, uh, he sat me down for the first time. He had heard about me moving into franklin tennessee I live in middle tennessee, um, now just out in nashville and he had heard about me, about from five people and he said so we finally sat down and and he sits me down and he's just a very much of a provocateur, very smart when it comes to interviewing. 37:49 I mean, he's interviewed over like 10, 15,000 leaders, right. So he's super sharp. And he goes okay, describe one word that would describe you. And I said I'm a net beaver. So, whoa, I've never seen anybody that fast explain that. And I said well, have you ever seen a middle ages renaissance tapestry? You know those wall hangs, have you seen those? 38:10 at least they're beautiful, right yeah and I said have you ever seen the back of one? Have you seen the back of one? 38:16 - Speaker 3 I think so yeah. 38:18 - Speaker 1 It's a. It's a. This is a hot mess. I mean, you know, it has no reflection of the front. In fact, in some of these hangings they have a piece of wood because the two strands didn't connect. It's so funny. I just said. I said I'm a net weaver. I'm behind the scenes, I net weave different people's stories, which is these these beautiful threads, and I net weave them together, connect them. 38:52 And it becomes a tapestry of life, which is the story of Jesus. And he goes oh my gosh, okay, that's a book. And what's weird about it is, in the previous three months, I've heard from five different people that I was supposed to write a book. I'm like, oh no, I don't got anything to share. He goes Kay, you're a net weaver because your stories are just on and on and on about how God and I call myself a Forrest Gump of relationships. I just stumbled into it and it just happens. But I just stumbled into it and it just happens. But at least because I believe that God sees my heart and that I just want to make that happen and make those connections happen. That really adds value to people's lives so that they can walk with the Lord even closer or, if they don't know God, help them along their journey. Anyway, all I have to say is so I'm in the process of writing it now. So I'm writing this book called Net Weaving and just really praying that it'll be a blessing to folks. 39:45 - Speaker 3 So let's talk a little bit about the book. I know you're still writing it, but give me a sense of what you're hoping to achieve with the book. Are you hoping to help people to learn some of the fundamentals of net weaving if it doesn't come as naturally to them as it does to you? 40:03 - Speaker 1 Yeah, absolutely, because some people say you're such an expert that's easy for you. Relationships, like I said from the very beginning, god created us all to be in relationship and whether it's five people or 500 or 5,000, and whether it's five people or 500 or 5,000, or, like I, have 14,000 people on my iPhone right, so I know a lot of people Do you have to buy a? 40:24 - Speaker 3 different drive to store all those contacts. 40:27 - Speaker 1 There's glitch a few times for sure. Like I'll spool it up, it takes forever to look. He's thinking about it all, oh my gosh. However, that works. So, yeah, the book will be talking about some stories to inspire people, to give them a vision, because we're all made unique, you know, and, and so god's going to work in and through us in different ways, and I break it up into different contexts of the how, basically the why, the what and the how. You know, how does it work, what is NetWeaving and the why of why we're called. 41:00 Now, the book itself is for a quote secular audience, but then I'll probably write another one that's more for a quote Christian audience, if you want to phrase it with Christianese language. So I want it to be as broad as possible from an outreach standpoint, because I want to change the nomenclature, the culture of networking. Meeting someone becomes so transactional, it feels so contrived, it seems so narcissistic, and I believe that through, potentially, this book, I can help contribute to inspiring people to be so less transactional and much more intentional and authentic and more caring, um, and more genuine, uh, in relationships, and not expect anything out of it. That's really the key in some aspects. So, yeah, it's chock full with um, sort of how to's, how to open up a conversation, but it really starts from the inside out. So you have to ask God to really transform your heart, because he's the only one that can. The Holy Spirit is the only thing that can transform your heart To sincerely love people well, to love your neighbor, care for them, to be in a relationship with them, and so you know whether it's the person at the front desk, whether it's the person at a restaurant, as a waiter or a flight attendant. 42:20 I mean, I'm just curious. I just like to say so, how are you doing? How do you like your job? Or are you based out of LA? Are you based out of New York? It's amazing when you generally care. Or my wife has a great way of whenever she sees a gal with nails, she goes oh, I love your nails, tell me about your nails and why'd you pick that color? What's your name? And oh, I love your name. What does your name mean? You know, especially if you're they're ethnic, right, you know they're like. You know, um, oh, that's a beautiful name in the ethiopian. What does that mean? You know so, so it just there's different ways, but also, to be blunt. People can tell when you're not being sincere, right, and so you have to allow God to transform your heart, to have that sincerity and genuineness and authenticity of the desire to know them. So that's just a taste of the book, but yeah, when are you planning to publish it? 43:16 So we'll finish writing June. I'm doing a chapter a month, just going at it, and I don't know when I'm going to publish it. So I'm talking to different publishers. I'm, you know, toying with other ways to get it out there. 43:30 What was really surprising, too, alicia is really from millennials and younger. So many of them have shared stories about the book where we're hanging out and they'll be like, hey, because we don't know how to do that. We're like this and I'm like what do you mean this? They go text me. I was like, oh my gosh, and we don't know how to have a natural conversation. We've never been modeled that well for us. And they said this book could really help bless us, just sort of figure out how to have that relationship and part of it. 44:06 Some of the guys that I've talked to said you know, even like asking a girl out, it's kind of we don't know how to do that. You know, we'll like text them or we'll start following them and being kind of creepy and like on their Instagram, you know, and see if they're going out with anybody, and then maybe I'll send a note. You know, I'm like just ask her for coffee. Yeah Well, how do I get there. Well, I want to ask her her name, introduce yourself. And literally I've guys like and gals just literally writing down notes. I'm like blown away by it. But the realization is that, because of COVID and other things and just our cultures in the last 20, 30 years and really it's the responsibility of us older folks that haven't really spent the time to really lift up, train, equip, model well relationships, because in my generation it's all transaction. It's all about networking, yeah, building the business, doing more ministry, getting the right speaking gigs, whatever it is your space is at, and it's rarely about finding out how are you really doing you? 45:09 - Speaker 3 know how's life now um anyway well, I think what you said about well, it really starts with the, the lord, working on your heart and how you see people and how you want to treat them. It really starts with the Lord working on your heart and how you see people and how you want to treat them. I really think that is the core and then from there you know what are the conversations you can have, what are the steps you can take to begin net weaving and to begin blessing others and to be blessed in return. 45:33 - Speaker 1 Yeah Well, so I'll give you a little key here that I wrote in the book. One is I have this sort of when you, when you first meet a person, you don't know how to where to start right, and so one would be where are you from? You know? 45:53 - Speaker 3 That's a good one. 45:54 - Speaker 1 Tell me about your family. 45:56 - Speaker 3 Yeah. 45:57 - Speaker 1 You know what's your future hopes and desires. When you start talking about that, you've hit pay dirt, I mean it is. You've built a trust with that person. And so when you meet someone for the first time, it's super fun to see how God unfold story and they begin to open up and that's a sacred trust, I call it, and you don't violate that. You don't share about what you thought, felt with others. You keep it in prayer. You really start to treasure people's stories and doing it well. 46:39 So, yeah, so that's kind of the from family, but also food. That's kind of a fun one, you know. When you meet someone, so what kind of food do you like? Or or, or, if they're of another culture? You say, because I travel a lot overseas, but also here in the us, I mean in nashville, we have 140 languages spoken, right, I mean nashville, tennessee, right? I asked him so what's your favorite food? What did you grow up with? And you know what that evokes so much memory and emotion and fun. And for reality, what do you do for fun, you know, and that's another question. But when you talk about that, then they talk about their family and what that meant and what they ate together. My favorite food is this, because my mom used to make this and I can't get it right now, and you know it. 47:24 Just you start bonding and start connecting at such a deeper level and it's a progression over time, right. So you know relationships meets, you know runs at the speed of trust. So trust has to be built over time. Trust can't be truncated or accelerated unless God's in it and I've seen conversations where the trust is like damn, right away because something happens. Because in the Bible, you know it says deep, speaks deep. It says in the Bible there's nothing hidden in the spirit. So sometimes the Lord, because of his timing, not our timing wants us to connect with someone, to come alongside of them at a deep level, fast. 48:02 I've seen that happen in my life and I think it can happen for anybody. I've seen it happen for people. They're quote introverted, extroverted. I have a friend that has a podcast of Enneagrams. So he's like hey, man, when you come out with a book, let's do different net weaving for different Enneagrams. So he's like, hey, man, when you come out with a book, let's do different net weaving for different Enneagrams. I said, dude, that'd be super fun, you know. So you know it's a little boring. 48:26 - Speaker 3 Well, so, Kay, you've presented me with the keys right that you're going to be writing about in this book, so I got to pick up one of the keys. Okay, Tell me about your. 48:35 - Speaker 1 My favorite food. 48:43 - Speaker 3 Well, um, tell me about your favorite food. 48:44 - Speaker 1 Well, that, that for sure, um, but also you know what I'm really. What I really would love to know, kay, is what are your future hopes and dreams? Oh, great Future hopes. So turning 60 was very monumental for me. It's kind of creeped up, crept up on me pretty fast, um. And you know, when you're in your twenties and thirties, you're. And you know when you're in your 20s and 30s, you're invincible. You know your 30s and 40s. You're starting to figure out you're not the only one out there that you might have something to contribute, but your 50s and 60s starts getting into clarity of oh, this is what I'm kind of good at and I'm actually going to add value for the kingdom and people's lives and start moving that. But when you hit 60, you start realizing okay, I kind of know what I'm really good at. I definitely know what I'm really bad at, which I have plenty of those but what I future hopes and desires is pouring into younger generations and I think this book and other things that I'll start creating here is really going to add value to their lives so they don't have to go through some of the pain and hurt and mistakes I went through in the last 40, 50 years and also how they can be successful in the standpoint of not the worldly success though it could happen, obviously but I'm saying just successful in the war, you know, and finish well and really make a huge impact for the kingdom now, rather than waiting till the end of their lives. So I'm really excited about doing that. I'm very excited about helping coming alongside of people in the areas of generosity. So I'm not talking about generosity that, I'm very excited about helping coming alongside of people in the areas of generosity. So I'm not talking about generosity in the standpoint of just money. 50:23 There's four ways you can give. You can give and I call it an acrostic, acrostic of L-I-F-E life. So first one is your labor, so like you can go build a house in Tijuana, whatever that kind of stuff. So labor. I is influence, so access to people, using your influence to help someone. F is finances that's pretty obvious and E is expertise, so maybe there's a certain expertise that God's given you. You can then give that as a gift. Is that an area of generosity? So life, l-i-f-e you can then give that as a gift in an area of generosity. 51:01 - Speaker 3 So life. 51:01 - Speaker 1 L-I-F-E. I'm running this down. Okay, okay, yeah. So helping people walk through that of trying to figure out that generosity is really the reflection of, I believe, the character of God, for God so loved the world that he what gave his only son. It's this, it's our, it's our, it's our divine DNA. 51:27 so let's be generous like our father so beautiful so how do we express that in our daily life? You know it can be in any of those four areas, or it might be more, I don't know. I mean that was that acrostic is from my friend, pete Oaks OCHS, who has an investment banker in the Midwest and he not only has businesses all of you know it's like a hydroelectric dam in Central America. He has business. But he has a really cool story and you can look it up online Pete Oaks O-C-H-S of a business inside a prison Cool, super cool. I'm going to have to look that up. It's a great story. I'm going to have to look that up, wow. 52:12 - Speaker 3 So, kate, you're not church planting right now, you're not pastoring a church, but you're ministering to the next generation, Something you said to me before we started recording. You said we're all called to ministry and I think you're a walking testament to that. 52:31 - Speaker 1 Thanks, alicia. I am on boards, so I serve on that, so I'm using my expertise and my influence in that area, as well as some finances, and so I am involved in. I'm very intentional in my life. I mean people can look at my LinkedIn and then they're welcome to go on my website. I've set up a website, khairaminicom, but my focus is on the Great Commission, about souls and church planting, especially in the 1040 window, the hardest places. 53:03 I've been to North Korea twice right, so not a lot of people can say that and I've helped with church planting efforts there, you know. So for me I like to go to the hardest, nastiest, ugliest places that the devil has taken over so that Jesus can be exalted and his light can shine in those areas of dark places. So I sit on boards that are very intentional. I sit on a board that's very intentional in planting churches and seeing people come to know Jesus through indigenous church planting efforts, meaning local people doing it, not some Westerners coming in which would be killed right away if they went to some of these countries. So working with indigenous church planters to start the work. So I'm very committed to that, so I'm very passionate about that. Generosity, church planning church soul, the Great Commission and generosity are probably the two main things that I'm really focused on, and then the modality I do that by is supporting the younger people to raise them up to do that. That makes sense. 54:01 - Speaker 3 Yeah, yeah, wow, so beautiful. Well, kay, thank you for sharing your story with me, sharing your story with us, for sharing your hopes and dreams. I would love to talk to you again when your book comes out. I'd love to dig deeper into the keys and there's a lot that we haven't dug into today from our conversation like that encounter that you had with God that led you on that journey to explore and go to that church. There's, I think, a lot more to discuss, but, thank you, thank you for being so generous with your time and so generous with your story. I can't wait to see how your journey continues, especially as your book comes out, kay. 54:47 - Speaker 1 Thank you, alicia. Thank you so much for the honor and blessing to be here and, most importantly, thank you for being in a relationship with me and my friend and partner in the gospel. So thank you, alicia, for all you're doing through Faithfully, and all the other myriad of other things that you do. I know that God has an amazing future in hope for you. 55:05 - Speaker 2 Thank you. Thank you for tuning in to the Faithly Stories podcast. We pray this episode gave you the encouragement you needed to continue on your journey. 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