Who’s Pretending to Be You? - Kevin Long

00:00 - Speaker 1 I ended up creating another company called U-Diligence, which was the very first social media monitoring company. We had problems with some of the college athletic departments that I was working with who were having issues with their athletes posting things on social media which at that time Facebook wasn't even around yet, and they kept asking me if there was anything that we could do to help them control that situation before it became a distraction for the coach and the team. 00:29 - Speaker 2 Welcome to Faithly Stories, the podcast that brings you inspiring tales from conversations with church leaders as they navigate the peaks and valleys of their faith journeys through their ministry work and everyday life. Join us as we delve into their challenges, moments of encouragement and answered prayers. The Faithly Stories podcast is brought to you by Faithly, an online community committed to empowering church leaders, pastors, staff and volunteers. Learn more at faithlyco. Get ready to be uplifted and inspired as we unveil the heart of faith through stories from the front lines of ministry. On the Faithly Stories podcast. 01:10 - Speaker 3 Welcome to the Faithly Stories podcast, kevin. We are so happy to have you. I was so glad when our mutual friend, brian Boyd, introduced us and told me what you do for a living, kevin, because, as much as I wish it weren't the case, your expertise is so relevant and so important to the ministry community. So here at Faithly Stories, we have focused on interviewing pastors and ministry leaders, and you are our first guest who doesn't really fit that description, but you've got something to offer that's really important to that community. So thank you for joining us, kevin. 01:48 - Speaker 1 Well, thank you, Alicia, for having me on. I really appreciate the opportunity to hopefully educate your listeners and also help any ministries that might be in trouble with this sort of problem that we solve solve. 02:08 - Speaker 3 Yeah, so you are the founder and the CEO and the chief social media bounty hunter for social imposter, and I want to dig into what all of that means. But let's set the stage first. You are a serial entrepreneur and you actually started your career in Congress. Like, take us through some of that. Take us through the path that led you to where you are now and what you're doing. 02:26 - Speaker 1 Yeah. So when I was in college, particularly during my sophomore year, I was really kind of bored and didn't wasn't having a great time and was talking to my counselor at school at Purdue and just telling him how I really just wasn't, had no kind of direction. And he asked what I like, what I like to do, what I like to do when I wasn't in school and aside from playing sports and I was very much a news junkie, I was really into politics back then and he suggested trying to get an internship. So I sent letters to the two Indiana senators and to the congressman from my home district and to Vice President Quayle, who happened to be vice president to George HW Bush at that time. I got a summer internship in Senator Coates' office and then got a fall internship in Vice President Quayle's press office. So I got to spend about nine months in Washington and it only took about a week to be hooked and really wanted to go there after I finished finished. So when I graduated a couple of years later, I headed straight back to DC and I ended up getting a job with another Indiana Congressman, dan Burton, who was from the Indianapolis area, and I worked for him for almost 11 years and he became committee chairman during the Republican revolution in 1996. And he brought me over to be a professional committee staffer. At that time I got to work on some really cool stuff uh counter narcotics policy oversight and putting together, helping put together the plan Columbia aid package, and uh really enjoyed my time there. Uh from there, uh once From there. 04:24 When the Republicans took over they term-limited their committee chairman to six years and so when the six years was up we were not able to continue. The new committee chairman brought in his own staff and kind of left the rest of us out there looking for a new job. The rest of us out there looking for a new job, and I ended up becoming a contractor in the Pentagon in the Special Operations Low Intensity Conflict Office, which had counter-narcotics oversight for the Department of Defense, and we worked on, or I worked on projects in Colombia and in Afghanistan, and so I got to enjoy my time there in the Pentagon and work for those companies and during that time I came up with an idea for doing media training, which I had a little bit of background in on the communication side, because when I was on the Hill I was a press secretary for a while as well for Congressman Burton, and I continued kind of doing media throughout my time as a committee staffer as well, and so when I went into the Pentagon, we were setting up programs to help the Colombian Ministry of Defense and the Afghanistan Ministry of Interior to learn how to better handle the press and create a press office in both of those places. So I was actually in a restaurant in Bogota and I heard a basketball player during the NBA finals talking about how they were going to war and how it was a battle, and I just felt like it was kind of very poorly. It reflected poorly upon him, and so I decided that I wanted to start a media training company, and when I came back from Bogota I set up MVP Sports Media Training and I ran that for 20 years where I taught professional, collegiate and Olympic athletes how to deal with the press, how to speak, how to complete thoughts, how to answer questions in a way that maybe wasn't exactly what the question was about, but to give the answer that they wanted to give. 06:34 And so from there I ended up creating another company called U Diligence, which was the very first social media monitoring company. We had problems with some of the college athletic departments that I was working with who were having issues with their athletes posting things on social media which at that time Facebook wasn't even around yet, but it was mostly on MySpace and some other smaller ones at the time and they kept asking me if there was anything that we could do to help them control that situation before it became a distraction for the coach and the team. So I created a social media monitoring platform called U-Diligence In the beginning student athletes posts on various social networks and alerted the coaches and the athletic department staff when keywords were mentioned that might have a negative connotation. From there we expanded that into offering the same service to parents and I just I think unfortunately we were probably about three or four years ahead of too early in the marketplace and people just really weren't familiar enough with social media at the time. The parents it was still first generation going through social media, so they didn't really understand it and even though we had, you know, a really successful platform, it just never took off like we thought it was going to. And from there I created a. 08:09 When my daughter started playing softball competitively, was highly ranked in the country in her class, going through the recruiting process with collegiate coaches and, drawing on my background from MVP and dealing with the athletic departments, I created a recruiting app for high school athletes to get their game video in front of college coaches. That, again was a little bit ahead of its time and it didn't quite take off as quickly or as much as I would have liked it to, and we decided to close that down and from there I created and actually before I did that, I started Social Impostor, and Social Impostor came about because of my contacts during my time in Afghanistan dealing with security personnel. I had a guy that I had worked with that came back to me and said hey, I know you do this social media stuff. I've got a client that has all these fake social media accounts and they have no idea how to deal with it. Is there some way that you might be able to use your contacts at Facebook and Twitter to be able to help them solve that problem? And I said, well, I think so. And within a week I'd taken down 8,000 accounts for them and it gave me the idea well, if this guy's got this problem, this has got to be pervasive. 09:36 So I started looking around and I started noticing that the places that seemed to have the most from Hollywood were ministries, and so I started cold calling ministries whenever I'd see an article in the newspaper or in the Christian press that would mention that we you know, we don't solicit for funds on social media, please don't fall for it I'd see things like that and I would reach out to the ministries. And, yeah, when I got my very first client, it was one of the biggest names in the industry. It just kind of took off from there and now they are a majority of my clients as ministries. So I really am spending a lot of time helping ministries prevent their followers from being taken advantage of, and it is quite exhaustive and quite extensive, because the social media companies continue to move the goalposts on us and change what we need to do in order to report and successfully remove accounts. 10:40 And you know, like almost everything else out there, right now they are almost completely relying on AI to try and resolve requests, submissions, and whereas in the past we were able to speak to people directly when we had problems and you know our contacts there were able to leverage those, they've almost completely eliminated human interaction in the sections that deal with social media imposters, and so it's become a challenge when the AI is not quite adaptively learning some of the nuances to how the accounts are made with, you know, maybe a misspelling here or there, or a symbol instead of a letter, and it doesn't fit their guidelines that they've programmed the AI to look for, and so we, you know, we end up having to use some other methods to try and get those accounts down. But it's that's probably our major headache right now is that the AI has not made things better, it's made it worse. Is that the AI has not made things better, it's made it worse. And I think, from my perspective, in dealing with them them being the social networks for almost 15 years now they, you know I've come to the realization that they're not in the business of removing accounts. They want as many accounts as they can have, whether they're legitimate or not, and because they get clicks and with the clicks comes advertising revenue and nobody's in the business of trying to hurt their revenue. 12:13 So yeah, if you can make a good case and have a pretty unflappable imposter, they'll begrudgingly take it down. But they're not going out of their way to do any sort of things that might be in the gray area where they're using the misspelling or a fan page that has the word fan in somewhere in the bio or the username, they don't consider those to be imposters. They don't consider imposters to be accounts that don't have a profile or a banner photo of the of the person. And this one's big in the ministry section, where they'll set up accounts that either show the primary principal on the profile photo but it's for the ministry, or reverse, they'll show the ministry logo where the username is of the principal and they don't consider either of those to be violations, even though they're out there, and a lot of times they just steal the content directly from the ministry's accounts and put them on those pages that they've created. So that's kind of my CliffsNotes version of how we handle things right now, but I'm happy to answer more questions. 13:30 - Speaker 3 Yeah, I've got a lot of questions. There's a lot to dive into there. The first is just the observation that you know you've been running this business for 10 or 15 years now and it seems to me like, unlike maybe some of the other things you've done where you've been a few years early, you came into this space at exactly the right time and, as you alluded to, with AI, things are only getting worse. This is only becoming more important for pastors to understand and to deal with. So I'll just say from my own experience being on social media that I have noticed that over the last year alone and I'm not, this is not an exaggeration I've probably gotten a dozen messages from pastors telling me hey, just so you know, there is an imposter account out there. I would never ask you for money, so just be wary, because I know there are imposter accounts out there for me. 14:25 I've gotten many messages like that. I've also gotten follow requests from the names of high-profile pastors where I'll actually say to myself oh, this is exciting, like so-and-so pastor is interested in me or interested in what I'm doing. He must have noticed X or Y that I'm doing and it's actually only maybe a day later that I might notice wait a second, this is not actually the pastor and it'll be like a picture being a little funny or a word being a little funny. That'll tip me off, but I almost don't notice it right away. Right, it's very nuanced. And then the third observation I'll make is that it's not just the high-profile pastors. I've noticed that over the past year is I've noticed an uptick in these sorts of messages and this kind of activity that even pastors with, let's just say, just a couple thousand followers are susceptible to this activity. So, you know, I sort of offer that to you as like my own personal observations and I'm curious if that is what you see as well. 15:29 - Speaker 1 Alicia, that's A. It's very observant for you to notice those things, but I think you hit something when your first observation, which was that you're like, oh, he's interested in what I'm doing. They are very well versed in the psychology of creating these accounts and playing on people's emotions and desires to be important, recognized, and that tugs at everybody's heartstrings when common sense may tell you well, why is Rick Warren, joel Osteen, td, jakes, why are they contacting me? Oh, maybe they caught, they saw this. You know you start justifying it or making a reasonable conclusion in your mind. Well, this is probably why you start justifying it or making a reasonable conclusion in your mind. Well, this is probably why and that's exactly what they're looking for. And their typical MO is once they get you on board, they start hitting you with prayers or messages, with prayers in them, or what can I do for you? And then the ask will come. So they, they lay the ground, the groundwork, the foundation for the con, and then they hit you with it after they made you feel comfortable that they were the right person. 16:44 And oh, this is my private account. I don't like you know people to know which account I'm really using. You know they'll use those things and in your mind you're kind of like this doesn't sound right. But you know what I? You know, yeah, I really want to. I want to help him. You know you. You get to the point where you've convinced yourself that, yeah, this is the real account. 17:04 And we see this happen time and time and time and time and time again. And it's unfortunate because the people that they're preying on think they're doing good. They think that they're helping ministries, they're helping the cause that the ministry is supporting or promoting. In reality, they're giving money to somewhere that's probably a pretty well-funded criminal organization. In Africa or Eastern Europe are usually the two places where those scams emanate from. And it's really kind of the modern day email scam that used to be in the early 90s when those things were pervasive. And you know criminals are very smart A lot of times they're ahead of the times, they're well ahead of law enforcement most of the time and they are very good with using technology. And you know they could send out the same way that they used to send out a million emails and hope they'd get 10 responses and they'd move on. The same thing goes for sending direct messages and because they're able to access the follower list of the real accounts, they know who to target when they're sending out these messages, and so they go in and they'll send a friend request to the people that are on the friend list of the follower list of the ministry or the pastor, and so it's not unusual to feel that way, because that's the psychology behind what they're doing, so they're pretty good at it. That's the psychology behind what they're doing, so they're pretty good at it. 18:41 Secondly, I would say to your question about the pastors that are, you know, only have a couple thousand followers, those are probably more likely to get hit than the big name people, because it's more realistic that they might reach out to you than a Joel Osteen, a Rick Warren or somebody like that. So then you're like, oh, you could really justify it in your mind at that point. And what's devastating to these ministries is that you know they're out there helping people, they're ministering to people, they're spreading God's word and they're being taken advantage of. And even worse, I think the ministries understand to some extent that that type of activity goes on, unfortunately. But the problem is, the folks that are being impacted by this, beyond the reputation of the ministry, are the followers and they're the people that maybe can't afford to give the money that they're like, oh well, if he's asking for it, I really want to help his cause and I want to make that happen. And then they don't get an acknowledgement. They don't get anything afterwards unless they're continuing to ask for more money. 19:43 And you know, we've had stories of people giving away thousands and tens of thousands of dollars of these people only to find out later that they had been taken advantage of. And it's so unfortunate and heart-wrenching and gut-wrenching to hear those stories and it just really makes you upset that people are taking advantage of folks like this and it continues to happen. You know they'll work on one pastor and they'll move to the next, the next, the next and they just keep going. So I think it's you know, from my perspective, it's really incumbent on the ministries to be proactive and not just posting things on their social media, saying I'll never ask for it over social media, but actually going out and trying to find these folks and remove them. And I understand it's time consuming, because this is what I've done for the last 15 years, so I know how much time it takes to do it. And that's why we offer the service because a lot of ministries aren't well staffed and they don't have staff they can dedicate to this the networks in order to get them down. And so it's, it's a. 20:56 You know we take down thousands of accounts a week and it's um, you know, that's not something that any ministry is capable of handling on their own. 21:04 And so you know, and everybody's got a different pain level to a different tolerance level for this sort of fraud, and to some ministries, one imposter account is way too many, whereas others, you know, they may consider it, you know, not that big of a deal, since there's only a couple. 21:21 But I think if you have that attitude, you're really doing a disservice to the people that believe in you and follow you and want to help you if you're not proactively out there trying to stop these people from taking advantage of people. And you know we're not perfect, we miss some because the spellings aren't right. It may be an account that switches profile photos regularly, and so you know we don't catch them all. But what we do tell all of our clients is if someone reaches out to you with an account, send it to us and we'll find it and get it taken down. But I'd say we're probably 99.9% effective at finding the accounts, but we're not perfect. We do have some that get biased occasionally and we happily take the links from the clients and submit them and get them down for them. 22:12 - Speaker 3 Thanks for that, kevin. So let me ask a couple of questions, maybe from a follower's perspective, because we do have folks on our platform who are not pastors or sort of key ministry leaders, but they're volunteers at churches and their faith and their service are an important part of who they are. But let's say you're a follower and you get taken in by one of these imposters. Is money the only thing that gets asked for, or should they be looking out for any other kind of asks? 22:42 - Speaker 1 Within the ministries. It's usually money, and you know they try to get you comfortable with them by, you know, starting with a prayer Let me pray for you. Is there anything we can do to help you? So you get this sense of, oh, they're wanting to help me to feel comfortable with them. That's kind of how they lure you in and then they hit you with the ask in most cases, but it's, I think, that you know they're. Occasionally they'll fall for oh, can you send me the password for this? I lost the password, why, you know you would think, well, why don't you call me or email me? 23:19 But there are things like that where they could be fishing for access to it and, especially in the volunteers case, if they have access to the business suites or the account login information for the ministry, those things can get hacked and taken over. If they don't have two-factor authentication in place, or if they click on a link that has a phishing scam attached to it, where they're going to have keystrokes, malware, placed on their computer and it's. You know, when you're in a small, smaller ministry, you're not that security conscious usually, because it's not something that's going to be happening to you regularly. But you should be. You should always have your guard up and, unfortunately, you should be suspect of anything that comes to you like that and you know you may. Just they may use the exact same photo that's on the real person's account and you may momentarily be fooled by it. 24:20 And I think the so key points for security on that for the ministries are make sure that anyone who has access to your accounts has two-factor authentication, a layer put in which should prevent 99% of the hacks from happening, or don't let them use the account if they don't have it in there. If they don't know how to use it, go on YouTube, watch a video, show them how to use it, because that's going to keep your accounts more as about as secure as you can. In the environment that we're in and I realized that in especially in smaller ministries where they rely on those volunteers it's hard to ask people to do stuff like that. But for the security of your followers and the security of your ministry, it's really kind of incumbent on you to create that sort of cybersecurity awareness as well within the people that are working within the organization. 25:15 - Speaker 3 Wow, that's such a great point. I had not thought about that. I hadn't thought about the scenario where maybe someone's impersonating a pastor, reaching out to a volunteer, trying to get passwords for key ministry software and technology and suites and so forth that the ministry might be using and so many churches are powered by volunteers. I can see that that could be a real key point of vulnerability. So thanks for mentioning that. So for pastors that have some kind of a profile right where they have followers and this is maybe an area where they know they're vulnerable and they reach out to you, kevin, and they look to hire you, give them a sense of like the first three things you do to sort of secure things for them and for their social media. 26:02 - Speaker 1 So the first thing we'll do is we'll do a complete deep dive sweep of all the networks that we cover, which are Facebook, instagram, tiktok and X right now. And we do those because they're the ones that are the most likely to respond to our requests to remove the accounts. They know who we are, they're used to us dealing with them. The other networks are not nearly as responsive or they're not responsive at all to removal requests. So, you know, while we can find fake accounts there, it's really kind of a waste of time because they won't take them down. So we don't cover accounts on networks that are non-responsive. And you know we've had some that were responsive and no longer are, like YouTube and LinkedIn. They just don't respond. But we have, you know we have, pretty good success rate within the networks that we do cover. So we'll do a full sweep and then we'll come back to them and say you know, this is, you know, from what we see, this is what we see, you know, as being a major problem for you. Or you know, we see it being five a month, 10 a month, a thousand a month, whatever the number that we see, based on how many we find in that initial sweep, and then we get those taken down over the first week that we're working with them and then from that point on, we provide them with a weekly, monthly and annual email that tells them we found five accounts on Facebook, six on Twitter and four on TikTok this week, and we just accumulate those over time and each email alert they get to see what we're doing for them weekly. 27:41 And you know, you might say, well, gee, if we've had three weeks of not having anything, you know, do we really need this? But I would come back to that and say, well, it's the one that you don't get. The week that you have one, that's the problem, not the week that you don't have three. You should be praising the Lord that you were able to get by this these three weeks without having any accounts that are up there. But it's. You know, it's kind of like mowing the grass, right? Maybe you don't have time to mow the grass, so you hire somebody to mow it. One thing you know is it's going to grow and you're going to need them to come back again in a week or two, and that's kind of the analogy that we like to use with our clients is you know, we're like a lawn service. Eventually, there's going to be problems in your yard and you need your grass cut, and that's kind of what we're there to do. 28:29 And, depending on the climate you're in, which would be how large your ministry is, how active you are on social media, how prominent your ministry might be, and even the ones that are not prominent still have problems, and so you know, we one thing that we committed to in the beginning, when we were doing this, was we were going to provide our ministries with a rate that was was significantly less than what we charge our corporate folks, because, you know, we're believers, we've grown up in the church, we understand that helping other people pass on the word of the Lord is one of our callings, so we provide it at a significantly discounted rate compared to what we do corporate clients with, and we give them the same service. It's not a lesser service. It's, you know's, what we have, and, in fact, I was just talking with one of my team members yesterday about this and that in the beginning we were able to. We had software that was able to go out and scan and search all the networks using their APIs, and then, in 2016, the networks had the account. 29:42 Specifically, facebook at the time had the Cambridge Analytica scandal, where people were accessing data through the APIs and then doing things with it. They agreed not to do so. They shut down the APIs for a while and when they restarted them they had removed the ability to search by username, which is how we were finding all the fake accounts that existed on their system through that, which caused us to have to go back to searching manually. Amount of time having to go through manually every day and search our clients is significant. But we didn't go back and say, okay, we're going to charge you more because now we're spending more time on it. We've kept the rates the same, so hopefully our clients appreciate that and we're still giving them the same service and it just takes a little longer in some cases than it would have with the machine doing the searching for us. 30:40 - Speaker 3 Yeah, that makes sense. And so for the platforms where you said the platforms aren't responsive to you I think the examples you gave were LinkedIn and YouTube that when you reach out they don't respond to you about the fake accounts that you find. Is there any advice you give to ministries around that? For instance, do you ever recommend to them that they don't be active on those platforms? 31:03 - Speaker 1 Well, I guess it's kind of a double-edged sword with that, because you can say, well, don't be active on there, but LinkedIn maybe not so much, but on YouTube it's a great way. Linkedin maybe not so much, but on YouTube it's a great way. I mean, the audience is significant on there and you don't really want to hamper the ministry getting out their message by not using the account just because people may steal the videos and put it on their own. They'll steal videos from any means, any network, and put them on there. So I would rather have an account, get it verified and use that account as much as I could than to say just don't use it because it's so bad. Well, you know then who's going to take over. There's going to be hundreds of accounts on there and there still are, but there'll be dozens to hundreds of accounts that are putting your videos out there. 31:56 There is a one program within LinkedIn that allows you to report the intellectual property violations of the videos and they come down pretty quickly if you can get into the program, and that program is called Content ID and it's not. It takes a while to get to apply and get accepted, but when you do, if you report a video for being um um violating your intellectual property, then the um usually comes down within seconds, but it only takes down the videos. They don't take down the accounts, which is just I again I go back to. They're not in the business of removing accounts, so they'd rather have an account out there with your profile photo on it and no videos than to take the account down altogether if all they're posting is your videos, it just makes no sense. The common sense goes out the window when you're dealing with social media companies and you really just got to kind of get in their head and figure out what they're trying to do, or try to figure it out anyway, in order to be successful. 32:58 - Speaker 3 Yeah, that's a great point. In order to operate on these platforms, you kind of have to get into their heads right and know what their motivations are and sort of operate around that. So it's so encouraging to hear about how you think about serving these ministries and the rates that you charge and being sensitive to that. And I guess my question for you is there are ministries that have budget for this sort of a thing, but there are also ministries, for example, like church planters, who are still fundraising, still trying to get their churches, their ministries, off the ground. For any ministries that don't yet have the budget to work with you and work with your company, are there a couple of things you can suggest to them, like as they're maybe getting set up, that they can do to just be smart about this sort of thing? 34:01 - Speaker 1 thing that I would do is go ahead and pay to get the verification on the networks that allow you to do that, because then at least you are, you have something that should be a sign to everybody that's following you on there that it's a legitimate account. Yeah, it's a few hundred bucks, but in the long run you may be saving someone who wanted to give you a few hundred dollars for making a mistake and giving it to someone who's scamming folks. So, and I think, as more and more people who are followers and maybe some of the older generations that are, finally feel like they're becoming comfortable with social media, they're learning that a verified account is something to be, you know to be what you look for in places. So it's kind of that seal of approval. You know, back in the old days it would be the Better Business Bureau seal and, you know, the Good Housekeeping seal. Getting those verifications, I think, is critical to any ministry, large or small. It's worth the extra expense to pay that to get those things verified. And if you know, in some cases they don't have the business set up yet but they're going to, and as soon as they do, that's when you really need to act on that and get it in place as soon as you can. 35:18 I know a lot of the ministries. 35:19 When they start out they're just using the pastor's personal accounts for things and they don't necessarily set up a ministry account to start with. 35:27 But as you roll along and as your ministry grows, it's probably incumbent on you to also set up a ministry account and then request verification for it as quickly as possible. Don't fall for the scams of people saying oh, if you get, we'll get you a hundred thousand followers if we pay us X amount of dollars. Don't do that, because you're just going to get bot accounts that somebody's created somewhere to follow you and the networks will see that and see it's not a legitimate follower account and so it becomes. Your account becomes suspect then and less likely to get verified if you're using bot accounts to pump up your follower account. So I would avoid doing that. But yeah, I think the best thing that managers can do in that case is make sure you get a verified account and let people know hey, this is my real account. Don't fall for anything else you know. And once they get the budget, then they need to come and speak to us and let us help protect their ministry and their followers. 36:35 - Speaker 3 Wow, this has been really enlightening. Kevin, thank you for sharing your experience and your wisdom with us in this area. I have a feeling that this is going to be front and center for a long time, and for me personally and for Faithly. You know we're not building social media per se, but we're not not building social media. There are a lot of similarities between what we're building at Faithly and some of these other secular platforms that are out there, and so hearing from you is also incredibly important for us to make sure we're building a secure platform that we're inviting ministry leaders onto. So thank you, kevin. Really appreciate your time today, really appreciate your experience and sharing all of that with our audience. 37:19 - Speaker 1 Well, thank you, Alicia. I really appreciate the opportunity to get on and hopefully it will help somebody somewhere and it'll all been worthwhile. 37:27 - Speaker 3 Oh sorry, don't let me forget. We're going to include links to you and to your company in our show notes, but maybe you could just briefly share for a couple of seconds where people can find you if they want to get in touch. 37:38 - Speaker 1 Sure, you can reach us at socialimpostorcom and that's with an O-R at the end, and so socialimpostorcom and you can go on there and we have a contact form on there and you can reach out to us through that and we're pretty responsive to those when they come in. 37:55 - Speaker 3 Yeah, Not AI. Run right At socialimpactorcom, you will reach actual human beings. 38:02 - Speaker 1 Yep, we are real and we will respond. 38:05 - Speaker 3 Awesome, awesome. Well, thank you again, kevin, I really appreciate it. 38:08 - Speaker 1 Well, thank you, alicia, have a great day. 38:10 - Speaker 2 You too. Thank you for tuning in to the Faithly Stories podcast. We pray this episode gave you the encouragement you needed to continue on your journey. 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