How the Gospel Reached Billions: Inside the Jesus Film Project - Josh Newell | Faithly Podcast

But in a place where the majority context is, you know, for example, in India, in the Christian context is so small, you have no choice but to collaborate. Not just to survive, but to like, if you want to advance anything, you have to work together because there's just so few, you know, relative resources. This is the Faithly Podcast. Today on the Faithly Podcast, I'm joined by Josh Newell. Josh is the executive director of the Jesus Film Project. It's a ministry that helps to share the story of Jesus around the world in thousands of languages. And I'm super excited not just to learn more about the Jesus Film Project, but to learn more about Josh and his journey, to learn from him about long-term leadership and innovation in ministry. Josh, welcome to the podcast. Thanks. Great to be here. Yeah. Well, so I want to start with your degree in journalism because it's not often that I meet someone who's in this ministry ecosystem who studied journalism. So tell me, what kind of career did you have in mind when you chose that major? Yeah, I had a sports broadcasting career in mind. I wanted to be on ESPN. No one told me that Scott Van Pelt was already the bald, bespeckled face of ESPN at that time. So once I saw him, I was like, okay, they got the guy. I'm done. But that was really my plan. I studied journalism at Indiana University, and it was such a privilege to be a part of all the sports scenes and report from a print broadcast. radio perspective, be doing play by play basketball games, which was the pinnacle for any Indiana guy. And so I really wanted to be on ESPN one day. Wow. Well, so did you what was your first job out of school? Did you get to experience that? I didn't. Actually, I had to plan my whole senior year. I had all my demo tapes. This is like actual cassette tape days in the late 90s. And they were awesome. They were great. I was sending them out, getting my demo tapes out there to different stations. There's a couple places that I targeted to work my way up through the affiliate structure because you had to start in that way and then hope to catch a break along the way. And all that radically changed when I got involved with the ministry my senior year in my life, just did a 180 from where I was headed. I thought I had a plan for my life and it turns out that God had a totally different thing in mind. I thought it was totally different. It turns out there's some overlap. I know a thing or two about that. You and I were talking a little bit off camera about my experience and my journey. I love when God does the 180, the flip the script on you. So what was that ministry that you were involved in in senior year that changed everything? Yeah. it was campus crusade for Christ at the time. It's now known as crew in the United States. And, uh, you know, I didn't realize that it was a global ministry. I just knew that there were a bunch of, of people who were interested in, uh, growing their relationship with Jesus and doing it together. And, um, my first three years were not characterized by, uh, Christian group activity. It was quite the opposite. But something happened over the summer before my senior year that dramatically changed my life where I was introduced to what life could, what like actual life could be like, not just my definition of what success could look like, but true freedom and grace and. And so once I experienced that, then I thought, okay, I got to find other people once I go back to school and, um, and learn and grow. And that's when I got plugged into Campus Crusade. And, um, from there it was just kind of like drinking from a fire hose and, uh, hearing about a global vision for reaching the world. And those types of things really captivated my, my brain at the time, because I like, I didn't know it at the time, but I like big problems. And I thought, okay, how can I be a part of this thing that is a worldwide movement? Wow. Well, so we have lots of listeners who are in ministry, lots who are in campus ministry. I think what you just shared was a huge encouragement to those folks who are serving in that way. Like what you experienced set off. I don't want to age you, but what is it now? 30 years in innovative ministry? 1998, so close. Wow, amazing. Under 30 for now. Well, so what was that first job out of school? Was it at Crewe? Yeah, it was an internship. And really, I wasn't all in at that point. I, you know, it's a slow progression of kind of wanting to be involved. I thought I would do something for a year and then move on with my normal life, my normal plans and just kind of like, okay, I gave my, my year to, to Jesus and then I'll, you know, figure out the rest of my life. Wow. So it was supposed to be like a gap year, like do this and then go on and do something else. Yeah. Yeah, that's it. And every year I kind of re-up with that same mentality. Okay, I'm in for another year. My wife and I, we talk about, okay, are we in for another year? And it turns out every year there's even more reason to re-up. I love that you have this mentality of re-upping. I think more people need to have that mentality, right? So that we can be sure like this is where the Lord would have you. But I'm curious if there was a moment after that first year where it shifted from a job to more of a calling for you. Yeah, almost immediately. My internship was with the Jesus Film Project, which is a ministry of Campus Crusade. And I thought, very naively, like how can I leverage my gifts and the experience I got at college and my education and journalism and broadcast and telecommunications and business, all those things. either majored or minored in, and, you know, really use that for the Lord. And the Jesus film came around. They needed young people to go out and help translate the Jesus film into new languages and use technology to do it. And so I thought, okay, that's a way that I can apply myself for a year and see the world. Well, my first trip to India was such an incredible whirlwind where not only was I exposed to a totally different culture, different belief system, predominant belief system in Hinduism than I had ever encountered before, but I was also exposed to how the body of Christ works together in India. in a whole new context. And that was so compelling. Bible translators, church planters, and an evangelism ministry like Jesus film, kind of all with one common purpose. And I thought, okay, that seems unique. I didn't know how unique it was at the time, but I wanted to, you know, once I got exposed to that, I wanted more. Let's helicopter up for a second. You've talked a little bit about what Jesus Film Project is, but for someone who's not familiar, can you describe it? Yeah, and I don't blame you. It's probably one of the best kept secrets in the body of Christ. But real simply, it's a ministry that began 50 years ago with a very simple idea to make a movie about Jesus from the Word of God, translate it into different languages, and then take that finished movie and put it into the hands of missionaries on the ground so that more people would hear about Jesus for the first time. People who didn't know who Jesus was, who a lot of times couldn't read or write because they were illiterate and no one else was focusing on them. And if they couldn't read, then even having access to the Word of God in printed form wasn't going to be enough. So the movie at that time was a radical idea to share about Jesus. Now it's generally accepted practice almost. So yeah. So it's cutting edge. It's grown over time. There's more than just the Jesus film now. There's 200 other movies that we've either produced or have cultivated on a digital platform. You think about the technology leaps that have occurred in 50 years and the Jesus film has been on the, you know, close to the forefront of those technology leaps and applying it for ministry purposes to the point where It's now been translated into 2,200 plus languages and one of the most widely seen movies, especially for people who have never heard about Jesus. And it's an effective way to share about Jesus and help people start churches where there weren't churches before. Wait, so the Jesus Film Project helps people to start churches. Tell me what that means. Yeah, it wasn't the original intent. We're an evangelism ministry in Campus Crusade, and the Jesus film, when it first came out in the 70s, early 80s, some of the early languages that it was translated into was Tagalog, Arabic, and in... and then quickly put into the hands of missionaries around the world. Campus Crusade missionaries and other missionaries who got a hold of what at the time was a 16 millimeter projector. And the strategies that they came up with were pretty simple too. Invite people to a movie, and whether it was 10 people in a house or 2,000 people in a village, a 16 millimeter projector with a screen could handle everything. you know, that entire capacity. Well, what started happening is that people not only were experiencing Jesus for the first time, but wanting to know how they could follow him and grow in him. And after every Jesus film showing, there's an opportunity to indicate a decision to follow him and people were coming to Christ, you know, by the thousands. Yeah. Campus Crusade didn't have the capacity to actually disciple all of the people that were coming to Christ through these showings, but we wanted to play our part in getting the gospel out there. And so over time, it just became a practice to partner with the local church that was in the area and do it together. And the church would take all those new contexts. Campus Crusade would still be on the front edge of, you know, sharing the gospel. And the church would come alongside. And sometimes the roles would reverse depending on the context. But whether it was in, you know, cities in Bangalore or in the far-flung, you know, outskirts of Ethiopia where there's no electricity, right? The Jesus film became the tool for helping introduce people to Jesus. And then through introducing people to Jesus, more people would want to know about Jesus. And eventually, what do you call a group of people that want to follow Jesus and learn about Jesus altogether in a community, in a single space, and needing spiritual formation? Well, yeah. That's the church. And those were church plantings and a rapid church planting model became kind of our standard practice. Wow. So one of the things that, one of the themes that's sort of emerging from our conversation is just shifts in technology, you know, cassette tapes that you were dealing with in your college era to the early days of the Jesus Film Project. I'm curious, now in like the era of streaming, Is it the same draw, you know, to bring people around showing a movie? Are there different ways that you have to think about it? I'm curious your thoughts on that. Yeah, for sure. I think what has emerged over the last 10 years is that you need two strategies if you're going to be in this space that we're in, which is how do you get the gospel to everybody, especially people who haven't heard before? So the two strategies that emerge are like, how do you connect with people who... maybe can't read or write, don't have access to electricity, who are cut off from those things. And that's what we call our every tribe strategy. And then you have to deal with the fact that technology has shaped culture especially youth culture. And if you want to reach the world in cities that are connected, then pushing into digital technology is so key. And offering that back to the body of Christ, whether it's churches or partners as a free resources is kind of where we've landed on after five decades almost of doing this and having both of those strategies work. whatever it takes to go or to connect. That's kind of how we think about every tribe and every touchscreen. So this is very much a global ministry. Do you keep track, Josh, of the number of countries that you've personally visited over the last three decades? Oh, I do. I used to use one of those Facebook maps that you could like click on in all the different countries. I don't know what happened to that app. It's probably been deleted or harvested for AI. I don't know. But I stopped actually counting or remembering. I don't know which one. So do you think you're in like the 20s, the 30s, the 40s? Oh, yeah, probably closer to 30s. 100. Wow. After having been to so many places and doing the ministry that you've been doing, how has that shaped your view of the global church? Oh, that's a great question. And I'm astounded at God's church. And it is, you know, a very general statement to call it the global church when there's so much difference between what that means and how people worship and how different cultures do their praxis and their... and not to mention all the clean lines between denominations and the blurry lines within denominations. Somebody told me that there's, a researcher told me that there's 46,000 denominations in the world. And that was, you know, mind boggling to me. And I started to kind of despair at our ability to divide like that until I remember like God said, go and be fruitful and multiply. And so... You could look at it with despair, or you could look at it like, well, maybe that's how God is choosing to ensure that there's this multiplication that happens, that we don't stay all in the same space, because that would be, I think, our natural tendency as believers. Back to your original question, I think the body of Christ is beautiful. It can be messy if we try to control it. Movements are happening in lots of places that I continually see surprised by. And so awe is probably the one word I'd use. Wow, that's amazing. So we started the conversation with your education. I want to go back to your education because I was so surprised to see that about halfway through your time at Crewe, you pursued an MBA. What made you do that? Um, that's, yeah, I've had really great people mentor me over the years. And, um, during a conversation where I was just kind of, you know, doing our, our, you know, twice yearly check in on, on goals and other things like my, my mentor said, you know, um, you know, I'm going to be a little bit more. I think what you really need to do in terms of your next step of growth, because you're a learner, is to pursue an MBA. And that's not something that I'd really considered before. So the vision was cast. And as I started thinking about, well, what would that mean for me in the ministry space? I'm not looking to get into a consulting career or anything like that, but I wanted to take the best of what the world's frameworks were and apply it in the ministry space. interesting for me and valuable for the ministry. And so I started to look at different programs and different ways that they did the MBA. The case study method was something that was really compelling to me in terms of my learning style and what I thought would a community of people doing that would look like. And so it was a great decision and something that I kind of rely on 15 years later, almost on a daily basis. Really? So I was curious about that, if the vision sort of played out the way that you anticipated. Has it changed how you do ministry? Yeah, I mean, it's definitely changed how I do ministry, and it didn't play out at all like I thought it would. I thought it would be, you know, I think... There's not a great term that is used to describe people who just come out of a master's program and start to try to apply everything that they learn on the people that would be great for everybody else to know what I know. And, um, so I, I had to go through that learning curve myself of like, okay, how do I, how do I actually distill into practical terms for people that I lead and people that I'm trying to influence, um, the things that I know just as head knowledge and I want to try out. And, um, and so that was probably the biggest learning curve is learning to figure out how like what you know cut through all the noise and get really practical um without seeming like i um know everything right well i i think that's the that's the right attitude and i think that um i want to go back to that topic of collaboration that you touched on when you talked about going to india and jesus film project working with um you know all different sorts of groups on the ground there i think having that kind of attitude makes collaboration possible I'd love to hear your thoughts on, like, it seemed to me that you were suggesting that like that kind of collaboration and sort of coming together maybe is unique to some of the countries that you've visited and maybe not here in the United States. I was wondering if you could expound on that a little bit. Yeah, I don't think I had an appreciation at the time for how awesome it is when everybody is pulling in the same direction. Because I was exposed to that in a very formative time in my career, if you want to say it that way. So since then, I've realized just how hard it is to get people to pull in the same direction. And we all have things that God has put on our hearts to do and to really discern what God has called us to do versus what we want to do. That's a... That's a spiritual trick, if you will, that I'm still trying to master in my own life. But once that happens, and once it becomes clear that there's something greater than any one of us could accomplish and that we all can contribute to, then that's something that the Holy Spirit directs and seals with this connection. kind of collaborative piece that, yeah, this is what we want to see happen. This is what we want to do together. And it's not about our logos or egos to be euphemistic on that, but it's really about the mission and about what our common goal is, which is to advance the gospel, especially in my category, in places where Jesus hasn't been named before. Yeah. Why do you think it's a little easier on a mission field, like in India, for example? Easier versus... Versus like a more developed market, for lack of a better phrase, like here in the United States, where you and I talked about before we hit record about how difficult it can be sometimes to get things done together. Yeah. Well, that's a good question. Let me give me a second to think about it. But, um, I think it has to do with the fact that God is always at work in each one of our lives as individuals in sharpening, shaping us towards his character, not towards our own. And that is always a process of pruning of our ambition. If you're a leader, then you have a holy ambition and your own ambition and everything. you know, differentiating is always important. And then there's also just maybe collaboration is, is a skill as well that isn't well developed and like any skill, you need to be exposed to it, but you also need to put it into practice and then contextualize it. And we're in its own developed markets. Um, Do you need to collaborate is the question. Do you need to collaborate? Because there's so many churches in my hometown of Indiana, where I live in Madison, you know, there's so many churches and a church in almost every corner. So, you know, the mission was happening right there independently. But in a place where the majority context is, you know, for example, in India, in the Christian context is so small, you have no choice but to collaborate. not just to survive, but to like, if you want to advance anything, you have to work together because there's just so few, you know, relative resources. Turns out God's given us all the resources that we need. And we need to exercise the faith to have him meet those resource gaps. Yeah, that's good. Thanks for sharing that, Josh. Okay, so MBA, three letters that we don't hear a lot in the ministry context. There's another three letters that we also don't hear a lot, which is ROI. Now, when I was looking at the Jesus Film Project online and looking at like, just sort of, you know, you guys telling your story digitally, one of the things that you guys put out there is The awards you've won for ROI or return on investment in ministry, it's something you take really seriously. Can you talk a little bit about your philosophy behind it, why it's important? Yeah, I personally think that everything that we do as a follower of Jesus, we are stewards of and we're not owners of. So there's that aspect. And if you're a steward, then you're trying to, like the parable of the stewards that Jesus referred to, you're looking for a return. The worst thing you can do is just sit on the resources and hope that they stay the same. Good and faithful stewards that are rewarded are the ones that risk and that are risking on behalf of the kingdom. And there's a return on that risk, just like in the business world. And so, return on investment is a business term that we've adopted, but just kind of helps us continue. stay connected to people who are business people, our donors, our most generous patrons are investing in us to see an impact. And we just want to be as clear as we can of what we are and what we aren't doing so that the return on their investment is clear. It's an internal investment and ultimately... The results belong to God, not to us, and certainly not to us or even our patrons. But in this mix, we all understand that when you put something, when you invest something, you want to see it turn into something better. That's good. All right. So I want to go back to this theme of, you know, technology shifts. I want to talk about media in particular, the shifts in media and what it looks like now to be in media ministry versus when you first started, you know, two or three decades ago. I was talking with the founder not too long ago who recently passed and he said, you know, what are your challenges? And blah, blah, blah. And as I was going through him, I said, you know, I'm so grateful that I didn't have to start this ministry. And he asked why. And I said, because you had to, you had to convince people that film was a viable medium to communicate the gospel. Back in the late 70s, early 80s, I think it was still a big question of like, can you take something holy and actually communicate the gospel in such a way and lift up Jesus in such a way that would be accurate and worthy that people's lives would change? And over the course of five decades, we've seen that happen because the Lord has done exactly that. There's been so many stories of lives being changed individually and within communities that's hard to ignore. So all that's, you know, really great foundation for decades on that you can build on. And the change of media, I think... is a little bit of that same kind of note where there's skepticism about commedia or technology really can communicate what is meant to be an embodied experience with discipleship and i think the answer is yes it assists and it helps develop it we live in constant technology. And so we need to be able to leverage it for kingdom purposes and do it well thoughtfully, of course, but always pointing to Jesus and people's experience with him. And trust that through all of those Whether it's a Jesus film showing or people watching The Chosen or other movies about Jesus, they're not encountering a movie, they're encountering the person of Jesus in that moment because Jesus is choosing to be glorified in that way. Thank you for sharing that. I really liked what you shared about people coming around the film in a place like Ethiopia and a church sort of growing out of that. It's an incredible example of what the Jesus Film Project can help to spark around the world. We've been jumping around all over the place, which is kind of one of my favorite ways to do this, but I want to go back to your career, your 30 years or so at Crew and at Jesus Film Project. That is rare these days, right? To find someone in a particular, whether company, nonprofit, ministry for that long. What has kept you engaged and growing there? Yeah, I think like we touched on every year, it's a re-up. And someday, and you know, some years it's, it's just kind of like a de facto rubber stamp, but other years it's a real challenge to think, okay, given what all these things are and what I could be, you know, what other opportunities that I might have, is God still calling me here? And I keep coming back to, yeah, God, has God called me here? And as God called me in general to this mission of ensuring that everybody everywhere hears about Jesus. And as long as those two answers are yes, then it's a yes to re-up, even if it's not a formal contract. So it's just a way to keep the passion cultivated by challenging myself, my wife, and I have that same conversation every week. Not a week, every year. And so we get pretty honest about, okay, is it worth it? And we're counting the cost. And there are costs to serving in ministry and anybody who's involved in full-time ministry or endeavoring to do anything in God's kingdom. I think it comes with a cost. And you've got to be clear-eyed about that. Yeah. Well, so you very wisely pointed out maybe 10 or 15 minutes ago in our conversation that there's God's call and then sometimes there's what you want. And untangling those two things takes a tremendous amount of wisdom that I think probably takes a lifetime to figure out. But based on where you are today, are there any tips that you can offer to our listeners on how to untangle those two things, how to discern, like, is this where the Lord would have me versus like, what do I want? Yeah, I think, you know, first of all, having awareness that you have ambition that God has put in your heart to accomplish, but then also having some humility to say that maybe what I interpret as that ambition is, you know, coming from myself more than the Lord. And it's always going to be a mix. The practices that I've been learning using particularly over the last eight years since being in this role are to take significant times throughout the year to have a spiritual retreat. Sometimes they're guided retreats and sometimes I guide myself or it's just me and God and And then on a weekly and daily basis, practice some rhythms of just pointing my eyes and lifting my eyes to the Lord, reflecting on what happened that week or that day, and really asking the Holy Spirit on what amounts to a moment-by-moment basis to... you know, purify these desires. If it's not yours, then make it apparent. And it turns out he will. It turns out usually through setback or through pause or through, um, delay, um, or crises, God is going to honor that heartfelt request to purify. And so there's some pain involved. It's not an easy thing to put yourself into a place of wanting to discern what's mine and what's the Lord. But the end result is that you have a clear, I have a clear picture now by asking that question and by submitting myself to that of what what really is mine, and what is the Lord's. And I stand more on what the Lord's is, and I'm so firm on that, than what I have on my own. And I just, I hold so loosely my own plans, but for the Lord's plans, I hold them firm, and then recognize that His timing is always better than mine. And I'm not, at all clued in to his timing. He's going to do it in his timing. And my only response to that is to patiently endure and bear fruit along the way. Wow, that is so good. Josh, I love what you said about asking God to purify your ambition. I think you're a very ambitious person. I'm an ambitious person. I know that many of those who are listening are ambitious people who have built successful ministries, but that process of asking for purification and sort of lifting that ambition up to the Lord is one that, you know, it's a real struggle, I think, for many of us. Yeah, I think it's a high, I mean, we put ourselves into places where we're either challenging ourselves or we're challenging others. And there's a lot of reputational risk on the line at all times. And if we're going to fly our own flag on that, then the Lord's going to bring us. We're either going to be humbled by pursuing humility or he's going to humble us because he doesn't share glory with anybody. And he opposes proud people, the word of God says, but he delights in those who are humble. So I think, you know, that's the practice. How do I continually differentiate and put those things into God's category and not even touch it if it's in his? That's so good. I think I needed to hear that, Josh. And I expect that maybe some others needed to hear that as well. Thank you. So let me leave it with this question. What is God teaching you personally, Josh, in this season? This is going to be a two-parter. What is God teaching you in this season, Josh? And what is giving you the greatest hope for the church today? Oh, that's such a good question. The last one. Yeah. Yeah, I feel like God has been teaching me in this season. It's a long season for me of waiting on Him. And what does it mean to wait on Him for His timing, for His purposes, for His... for his glory because I'm ambitious about his glory. I want to see him be glorified around the world. And, um, and so he's been, he's given the great commission 2000 years ago and I want to hurry it up in the next 2000 hours, you know? Um, so he's, he's got a lot to teach me and I want to hear it. So that's, that's one thing. And along, elongating my plans is one of the ways that he's, teaching me. So that's one thing. But what gives me the greatest hope is that I entered into this ministry space 28 years ago with, you know, with very little insight into how the body of Christ, um, you know, what is the body of Christ and the diversity around the world and where that is. And I've been challenged every single, um, day almost of what my vision is. It's so much bigger than what I imagine. And, um, and God is doing so many things with, um, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, People like to say the West to the rest is not what we're about in these days. And it's, you know, it's everyone fulfilling the Great Commission from everywhere. And this idea that there's a lot of different things. centers of activity of the body of Christ, if you will. So that gives me hope. There's more collaboration that's happening as a result. It's being led from all corners of the body of Christ. There's more unity, I think. And yet the challenge still is, even despite all of that, there's still so many people who have not even heard about Jesus, not even once. And, um, so I don't think we need to get caught up in like how well we're collaborating and how many meetings we have or how well our systems interoperate and call that our, you know, our outcome. Um, we have to keep before us what the actual outcome is that we're shooting for. And that is the great commission. It's God, or Jesus gave that to us. And, um, and it can be accomplished. Yeah. that the more I see, the more I'm convinced that his plan actually will work of seeing discipleship take place in a multiplying way that will cover the face of the earth. That's so good. Thank you, Josh. I heard both challenge as well as encouragement and what you said. It's a really good place to leave the conversation. Thank you, sir, for joining us today. I look forward to following along with what the Jesus Film Project is doing. Thank you. It's been great to be with you.